Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Cosmic77]

The thing about that comparison is that, as important as they are to their respective entry, Skull Kid and Midna are still in a game where Link is the main face and protagonist, whereas Roy and Corrin are the main characters of their games, and thus the main faces of their series for a period of time.

Not saying that this "rule" can't be broken, but it still seems more like the case than bad timing. After all, timing was actually favorable: Twilight Princess was released before Brawl and thus it focused more in content from it, the Triforce holders updated to that game. Skyward Sword only released a year before Smash 4 started development. Majora's Mask had its remake around the time of Smash 4 DLC. And Ultimate introduced Breath of the Wild material as the most recent game then, updating to have its Link. Yet Midna, Ghirahim, and Skull Kid are ATs and the Champions just spirits.

Fair with this one though.

We'll just agree to disagree. Personally, I don't think it matters. We already have one-off characters, and we already have side characters. Put them both together and you can't get in Smash?

Like I already said, I expect a Zelda one-off to get in sooner or later, and once that happens, it'll be easier for both Sakurai and fans to imagine additional one-offs getting in.

 

[I.D.]

I'll take your word for it because my popularity gauge here comes from a few Fire Emblem fans, and this thread, but I still remain highly skeptical of this statement due to never hearing anything positive about the games

Yeah, the good people of the newcomer speculation thread would never be biased.

 

[Digital Hazard]

I'll take your word for it because my popularity gauge here comes from a few Fire Emblem fans, and this thread, but I still remain highly skeptical of this statement due to never hearing anything positive about the games, the high price (and fact it came right after Awakening) seeming to explain the high sales figures, and the Fire Emblem Fates characters getting thrown around more often than the older (and now, more obscure) titles in the series could easily cause them them to be more recognizable.

Doing bad word is still spreading and discussing word on the game.

Again, Fates has notable negative points that draw justifiable criticism, but the fact that people still talk about them keeps the game fresh in people's minds, which generates discussion, which generates a lot of people remembering it more than other games, which equals popularity.

Probably the best way of putting in official terms is how Fire Emblem Heroes does its Choose Your Legends polls, where there's always some Fates characters in the Top 20, and Camilla, probably the most FE controversial character ever, won second place in the third voting.

We'll just agree to disagree. Personally, I don't think it matters. We already have one-off characters, and we already have side characters. Put them both together and you can't get in Smash?

All one-offs have been main protagonists of their games and the side characters have all been recurring though, the sole exception a clone who is mostly a palette swap . Still not saying it can't happen, just that it doesn't seems by the pattern we've seen so far.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Fire Emblem Conquest is also considered by many to be the peak of modern Fire Emblem map design, it still gets criticized by it’s writing, however a lot of veterans recommend playing Conquest because of the polished gameplay, specially compared to Echoes.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think it is worth noting that Sakurai has just gone with the idea of "I need a rep from this series" before.

It's how Zero Suit Samus and Ike were picked in Brawl.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Pegasus knights suck though.

Just to be clear i wasn't referring to their actual stats and general performance in FE (it's a whole other discussion)... just saying that in my own opinion, the concept of a knight on a flying horse is pretty awesome. It was more a common ****post/random thought than a statement tbh.

 

[Cosmic77]

Series representation shouldn't be the sole reason behind a character, but we also shouldn't pretend like it's completely irrelevant to Sakurai when it clearly is. Being super popular is a large part of the reason why Mario has so many characters including a mook.

I know certain people hate to hear stuff like, "'insert franchise' needs more characters," or, "'insert franchise' is really popular," but sometimes that's exactly what Sakurai is thinking when he makes these choices. If he can think of a worthy character and a moveset for them, he might just go for it.

 

[Icedragonadam]

So 4chan made a DLC newcomer moveset potential tier list.

Spoiler

And yeah, I gotta laugh at this.

Also, didn't a famitsu article state that Nintendo and Sakurai never rejected a character during the DLC period because of lack of moveset ideas?

 

[I.D.]

Series representation shouldn't be the sole reason behind a character, but we also shouldn't pretend like it's completely irrelevant to Sakurai when it clearly is. Being super popular is a large part of the reason why Mario has so many characters including a mook.

I know certain people hate to hear stuff like, "'insert franchise' needs more characters," or, "'insert franchise' is really popular," but sometimes that's exactly what Sakurai is thinking when he makes these choices. If he can think of a worthy character and a moveset for them, he might just go for it.

Also the opposite. Takamaru was rejected for being way too obscure. He said he wouldn't have included Lucas had he known the game wouldn't be released overseas.

 

[Mr. Robotto]

So 4chan made a DLC newcomer moveset potential tier list.

Spoiler

And yeah, I gotta laugh at this.

That 4chan post is absolutely idiotic and one way to ruin my evening... There are just so many flaws with it I don't even know where to start.

 

[Speed Weed]

So 4chan made a DLC newcomer moveset potential tier list.

Spoiler

And yeah, I gotta laugh at this.

Also, didn't a famitsu article state that Nintendo and Sakurai never rejected a character during the DLC period because of lack of moveset ideas?

i hate this

i legitimately hate this

 

[DarthEnderX]

So it looks like Street Fighter V is getting another season of DLC when people were pretty sure it was over.

Folks are speculating that limitations as a result of Covid are preventing them from developing the NEW game they were working on, but not from making additional content for the existing game.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Pegasus knights suck though.

Their stats tend to kind of suck early game but if you feed them enough kills they quickly become pretty broken. Their low attack can be offset by strong weapons, and their speed means they'll be doubling everything.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Probably the best way of putting in official terms is how Fire Emblem Heroes does its Choose Your Legends polls, where there's always some Fates characters in the Top 20, and Camilla, probably the most FE controversial character ever, won second place in the third voting.

There's even more contest to it because a lot of people hated Camilla for having so many alts, with some even saying she robbed Hinoka from a Hoshido-themed event.

Alts are pretty controversial as a whole in FEH, but Camilla is an even bigger issue. There's like 8 of her now, iirc.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

So 4chan made a DLC newcomer moveset potential tier list.

Spoiler

And yeah, I gotta laugh at this.

Also, didn't a famitsu article state that Nintendo and Sakurai never rejected a character during the DLC period because of lack of moveset ideas?

I don't think this list is meant to be serious. They put a bunch of Tetris blocks in A tier.

 

[Gribbo]

Speaking of The World Ends With You, remember Tansut? The dude who leaked Cloud hours before he was revealed and I believe teased Hero multiple times.

He just posted his, in Resetera's Smash speculation thread.

View attachment 272953

"I'm tired of cameos and ports, I just want a TWEWY sequel!"
"You will be pretty happy soon"
"THIS MUST MEAN HE'S IN SMASH"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So 4chan made a DLC newcomer moveset potential tier list.

Spoiler

And yeah, I gotta laugh at this.

Also, didn't a famitsu article state that Nintendo and Sakurai never rejected a character during the DLC period because of lack of moveset ideas?

lol at:

• The claim that some of these characters can't make for a unique moveset.
• The claim that nobody can preform Simon's attacks even though he literally has an echo fighter, and there are various characters in other series that reference his attacks (such as Shovel Knight's Throwing Anchor).
• The claim that one shoot 'em up character's mechanics translate better than the others when shoot 'em ups are incredibly similar to each other, and the reason why one makes for an easier to implement fighter is because she isn't a freaking plane.
• The claim that Jet Set Radio doesn't have any unique mechanics.
• The last "screw Geno" at the end.

So it looks like Street Fighter V is getting another season of DLC when people were pretty sure it was over.

Folks are speculating that limitations as a result of Covid are preventing them from developing the NEW game they were working on, but not from making additional content for the existing game.

Really? Wow. I highly doubt COVID-19 is behind this, but it is a decision I didn't expect.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Alts are pretty controversial as a whole in FEH, but Camilla is an even bigger issue. There's like 8 of her now, iirc.

Seven in total:

1. Normal
2. Spring
3. New Year
4. Summer
5. Adrift
6. Hot Spring
7. Brave

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Seven in total:

1. Normal
2. Spring
3. New Year
4. Summer
5. Adrift
6. Hot Spring
7. Brave

I remember seeing a comment like "I'm glad Camilla was removed from the running this time. How is my character supposed to compete with those boobs?"

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Really? Wow. I highly doubt COVID-19 is behind this, but it is a decision I didn't expect.

Given that 2020 was supposed to be the very last year SFV would show up at Capcom's Pro Tour before it got cancelled, I could actually believe COVID being the entire reason why Season V exists.

There'd be no point to make that season otherwise unless they crunched it so that all five characters would make it in time for players to have experience on the matchups before the Pro Tour finals (again, assuming it wasn't cancelled).

 

[SNEKeater]

I'll take your word for it because my popularity gauge here comes from a few Fire Emblem fans, and this thread, but I still remain highly skeptical of this statement due to never hearing anything positive about the games, the high price (and fact it came right after Awakening) seeming to explain the high sales figures, and the Fire Emblem Fates characters getting thrown around more often than the older (and now, more obscure) titles in the series could easily cause them them to be more recognizable.

EDIT: Also, I'd imagine Camilla gets a ton of skins for two very big reasons.

FE Fates is certainly a divisive entry, and that's mostly for it's writing, but Fire Emblem Fates Conquest is one of the best games in the series from a gameplay and map design perspective. Three Houses maps are overall good, but Conquest beats 3H in that regard.

I mean, I love Conquest and it's not because for the story or the writing, that's for sure. It's a very polished game when it comes to the gameplay.

 

[Digital Hazard]

I remember seeing a comment like "I'm glad Camilla was removed from the running this time. How is my character supposed to compete with those boobs?"

Well...

https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Bewitching_Beauty
https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Spring_Princess
https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Holiday_Traveler
https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Tropical_Beauty
https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Flower_of_Fantasy
https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Steamy_Secrets
https://feheroes.gamepedia.com/Camilla:_Light_of_Nohr

I do get what they mean.
Hot Spring one looks malnourished tho.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There's definitely a difference between main character "one-offs" and side character "one-offs".

If the comparison is Fire Emblem protagonists and The Legend of Zelda supporting cast members, it's not really a 1:1 comparison imho. Fire Emblem is designed to have a different cast for every game, so it's no wonder that a mascot crossover would recognize those characters. Zelda is designed to focus on the Triforce wielders, so therefore many supporting cast members are absent from title to title.

Now, frankly, I love me some Zelda characters. I was a big advocate for Ghirahim for Wii U/3DS, and I thought a Champion might get in as a base roster pick for Ultimate. Clearly, neither of those things came to pass.

Similar to Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem usually finds it's protagonists becoming the most popular, and mascots of their franchise. Zelda isn't the same type of series, so at the very least, while I wouldn't say Zelda supporting cast members aren't popular Smash requests, it's not a good comparison to Fire Emblem leads like Roy or Chrom.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There's definitely a difference between main character "one-offs" and side character "one-offs".

If the comparison is Fire Emblem protagonists and The Legend of Zelda supporting cast members, it's not really a 1:1 comparison imho. Fire Emblem is designed to have a different cast for every game, so it's no wonder that a mascot crossover would recognize those characters. Zelda is designed to focus on the Triforce wielders, so therefore many supporting cast members are absent from title to title.

Now, frankly, I love me some Zelda characters. I was a big advocate for Ghirahim for Wii U/3DS, and I thought a Champion might get in as a base roster pick for Ultimate. Clearly, neither of those things came to pass.

Similar to Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem usually finds it's protagonists becoming the most popular, and mascots of their franchise. Zelda isn't the same type of series, so at the very least, while I wouldn't say Zelda supporting cast members aren't popular Smash requests, it's not a good comparison to Fire Emblem leads like Roy or Chrom.

Besides that, Sheik is the only "main character one-off" too, and we've had nothing but AT's/references in Smash otherwise.

Everybody was a protagonist, villain, or supporting major character. Even then, Zelda/Sheik's thing is a unique transformations gimmick too. Not just main character. Coupled with Ganondorf and Young Link being easy clones, and Toon Link literally based based upon Young Link's data, and it makes you wonder if the Zelda franchise ever had a chance for a new character without some rather specific circumstance as is. Only Link so far doesn't have a unique thing in his favor. Just a Nintendo All-Star. Would Ganondorf have been in Brawl without the clone factor? Maybe. The last dismissed Zelda character alone was Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik that we know of, which says a lot related to the earlier bits. It doesn't mean Sakurai won't consider other Zelda characters, but he's added tons of content beyond that. Multiple stages, music, AT's, Trophies/Stickers, and items. Maybe he doesn't feel like there's another key character needed to be added. Could be nobody else dances in his head.

Nintendo I'd expect to add one via DLC more easily than Sakurai choose another Zelda character. They have stuff they want to promote, not that the Zelda games outright need advertising, but we still see content from the latest Zelda games anyway, so it's clear that Sakurai has no problems with referencing the most recent and relevant games.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Besides that, Sheik is the only "main character one-off" too, and we've had nothing but AT's/references in Smash otherwise.

Everybody was a protagonist, villain, or supporting major character. Even then, Zelda/Sheik's thing is a unique transformations gimmick too. Not just main character. Coupled with Ganondorf and Young Link being easy clones, and Toon Link literally based based upon Young Link's data, and it makes you wonder if the Zelda franchise ever had a chance for a new character without some rather specific circumstance as is. Only Link so far doesn't have a unique thing in his favor. Just a Nintendo All-Star. Would Ganondorf have been in Brawl without the clone factor? Maybe. The last dismissed Zelda character alone was Toon Zelda/Toon Sheik that we know of, which says a lot related to the earlier bits. It doesn't mean Sakurai won't consider other Zelda characters, but he's added tons of content beyond that. Multiple stages, music, AT's, Trophies/Stickers, and items. Maybe he doesn't feel like there's another key character needed to be added. Could be nobody else dances in his head.

Nintendo I'd expect to add one via DLC more easily than Sakurai choose another Zelda character. They have stuff they want to promote, not that the Zelda games outright need advertising, but we still see content from the latest Zelda games anyway, so it's clear that Sakurai has no problems with referencing the most recent and relevant games.

Frankly, I'm sure he's aware of there being a demand for those who are Assist Trophies minus the Moon, but they aren't of high priority so they get to be ATs to compensate. People tend to forget the devs don't see ATs as slaps to the faces, but to compensate low priority characters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The very day I get used to the Moptimus Prime name, it changes.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Frankly, I'm sure he's aware of there being a demand for those who are Assist Trophies minus the Moon, but they aren't of high priority so they get to be ATs to compensate. People tend to forget the devs don't see ATs as slaps to the faces, but to compensate low priority characters.

I'm aware of that too(there is a Moon support topic...).

But yeah, I think circumstances might play more of a role than anything else here beyond regular Link.

The very day I get used to the Moptimus Prime name, it changes.

Don't worry. It's not like the name is too scary, amirite?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The very day I get used to the Moptimus Prime name, it changes.

I thought Beth was a new person. lol

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I thought Beth was a new person. lol

Nah. It's that member's gimmick.

I remember stuff like Irene and HyperFalcon being used in the past too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I thought Beth was a new person. lol

"Aug 12, 2001"
Which is more reliable than her username.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Don't worry. It's not like the name is too scary, amirite?

Moptimus Prime sounded like the most badass janitor ever though :V

 

[Droodle]

So 4chan made a DLC newcomer moveset potential tier list.

Spoiler

And yeah, I gotta laugh at this.

That's been floating around for a week or so for now, although it did change. The original version had 2B in S, and Geno and Neku in B. It was just a thing some anon made and people hated it, so a ton of edits have been spawned from it. The second version moved 2B down to B and Neku up to S and then people started to spam text edits. The second version has stuck ever since.

It's not really serious, but the original version was just a random person's wishlist in the form of a moveset potential tier list.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nah. It's that member's gimmick.

I remember stuff like Irene and HyperFalcon being used in the past too.

Which is funny, cause Irene was taken so TheRealIrene was my first username change. HyperFalcon being the original.

I don't remember them all, unfortunately(same with the user titles, since I enjoy having a list of all of these silly kinds of things).

And hey, gimmicks aren't bad. ...Stop looking at Zelda/Sheik. ._.

Moptimus Prime sounded like the most badass janitor ever though :V

That is indeed his actual character role. He's a Janitorial Cleric. I just had no avatar for a long time, so he wasn't a name change for a while.

...He's surprising not super strong, but he does carry a bottle of Windex or Soap on a Rope depending the campaign. >.>;

Anyway, I mainly switched to this one since RTC is going to do Brian(Quest 64) soon. I dunno if it's going to be today or tomorrow overall, though. Today worked better if it fell under Dragon Quest day, since Quest 64 massively uses similar spells to Dragon Quest. Though a lot of rpg's do, it also has a simplistic plot in the same way as DQ1.

More or less(and to keep this on-topic), what I wanted to see from hero, besides being the DQ1 Hero, is a Equipment Change mechanic, where his sword/armor have different abilities as time goes on to show off how cool equipment is in rpg's. And part of why characters get stronger, not just levels. We don't even have a level up mechanic in Smash, though Lucario loosely has that as its gimmick.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Which is funny, cause Irene was taken so TheRealIrene was my first username change. HyperFalcon being the original.

I don't remember them all, unfortunately(same with the user titles, since I enjoy having a list of all of these silly kinds of things).

And hey, gimmicks aren't bad. ...Stop looking at Zelda/Sheik. ._.

It's a shame to think some of these names are lost in history...

But yeah, I mostly remember HyperFalcon because of the sea bass avatar

 

[Rie Sonomura]

"Aug 12, 2001"
Which is more reliable than her username.

she's also 6 years older than me, that's how i know it's her

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's a shame to think some of these names are lost in history...

But yeah, I mostly remember HyperFalcon because of the sea bass avatar

I forgot about that one too.

...And I think I had a special name for that. Maybe? I remember a few;

HyperFalcon
Happily Married Brain
Shiny Metal Bass
Santa's Little Helper
MetalTyrannomon X
Irene
TheRealIrene
Jackal Lantern
Moptimus Prime
All Hail Shadow
Legendary Spirit Tamer
(These are not in a particular order)

And any others from the last year that's listed on my profile. Good to know it's considered my gimmick. it's a good one~

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I forgot about that one too.

...And I think I had a special name for that. Maybe? I remember a few;

HyperFalcon
Happily Married Brain
Shiny Metal Bass
Santa's Little Helper
MetalTyrannomon X
Irene
TheRealIrene
Jackal Lantern
Moptimus Prime
All Hail Shadow
Legendary Spirit Tamer
(These are not in a particular order)

And any others from the last year that's listed on my profile. Good to know it's considered my gimmick. it's a good one~

I remember some of these. So many names...

 

[PLATINUM7]

Similar to Final Fantasy, Fire Emblem usually finds it's protagonists becoming the most popular, and mascots of their franchise

Final Fantasy found Chocobos and Moogles becoming their mascots, not the protagonists. The protagonists impact players more and get chosen for FF crossovers but they're still far removed from the presence Chocobos have in the series' branding.

Otherwise you make good points. The changing cast both FF and FE have lead to more choices for protagonists, compared to Zelda where you're limited to which Link you want to choose. So when it comes to crossovers where protagonists just seem to have an innate advantage for selection, there's more to pull from FE then there is Zelda.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I remember some of these. So many names...

Thank you. I think Jackal Lantern had me use a Scare Crow avatar, but I dunno.

I remembered some more too. Another fun one was Purrfect Cell. Literally a wireframe cat avatar.

...I could make an entire roster of these guys. XD

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I forgot about that one too.

...And I think I had a special name for that. Maybe? I remember a few;

HyperFalcon
Happily Married Brain
Shiny Metal Bass
Santa's Little Helper
MetalTyrannomon X
Irene
TheRealIrene
Jackal Lantern
Moptimus Prime
All Hail Shadow
Legendary Spirit Tamer
(These are not in a particular order)

And any others from the last year that's listed on my profile. Good to know it's considered my gimmick. it's a good one~

I remember like... half of these.