Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Microsoft: Empire Unit (Age of Empires)***

Ah, I've found the cultured option. Seriously tho, an Age rep is sorta my current pipe dream character. Selecting a potential character is definitely the hardest part. AoE II is undoubtedly the most popular entry, especially after its recent definitive edition. The problem is you either have generic units (albeit iconic) or real historical figures. And with the latter, its not like Dynasty Warriors or Codename STEAM where they've got a distinct look or are highly exaggerated, rather they're played pretty straight; Joan of Arc doesn't have crazy pyrokenisis, she's just Joan of Arc. So I'm not sure you could use them. Although I am partial to La Hire, he'd have the best taunts in the game easy

Spoiler: #LaHire4Smash

I'm also not sure about the RTS mechanics, at least as described so far in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I think it is important to capture the game-feel of a character when remaking them in smash. idk, it's just that it seems overly complicated, certainly moreso than anything we've got in smash so far. Maybe if it was the villager as the base and you could create npc soldiers, kinda as an extension of DDD's Brawl side B, but even tho that's probably oversimplified it still feels too much for me. So instead let me suggest an alternative:

This is Arkantos, the main character from the Age of Mythology Campaign. He's an Admiral from Atlantis who made his name fighting pirates and agrees to aid the Greeks in the Trojan war. Plot ensues. He uses a spear, which is nice. Oh, and he's a dad btw. Yeah, he's a silly somewhat shallow RTS campaign character, but he is a fully realized original character. And AoM is probably the second most popular entry, so the choice isn't totally unfounded. Plus, for people who like to see ties to Nintendo there were ports of Age of Empires and Age of Mythology on the DS. They changed genres from RTS to SRPG and were kinda bad, but they exist.

Funnily enough, Arkantos kinda has the opposite moveset problem of what I just complained about. He's got a unique ability "Rally" where he raises the attack power of nearby allies which could be cool for doubles. And he has one attack animation, which would work well for a forward smash. That's about it. Not saying Sakurai couldn't make something outa nothing, but there isn't a lot to draw on to make you feel like you're playing as Arkantos.

Still easily the least likely character I'd like to see tho.

 

[M@R!3]

So anime expo just released this artwork.

Probably means nothing for Neku in Smash. But this is still the first new content the series has gotten in after Final Remix released (and bombed) on the Switch. I guess the series still being alive gives him some twinkle of hope, but I'd be pretty happy with a TWEWY anime or a TWEWY sequel too.

Inb4 it turns out to be another port.

Well they certainly have my attention. If this is an anime I hope it looks better than this poster. That doesn't look like Nomura drew it, and the two new characters don't look like Nomura designs. Still going to keep an eye out.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I think that is easier to make a case for Steve from minecraft than a AoE unit, (I'm making this comparison because i'm pretty sure that both Minecraft and AoE as a stage with music tracks and remixes would be universally loved if included). But since pointing that i rather had a stage with it's very disctint graphic style and sick tunes wouldn't actually bring anything to the conversation, i will try to give a take at an AoE2 character (the most iconic one)

So far probably the most iconic units are villagers, and the monks (at least as memes). the monks imo wouldn't merge decently into a playable character but could be used as an attack/final smash/victory screen.

as for fighting units... is probably a contest between Skirmishers, light cavalry/Knights and Spearmen (skirmisher specially since those are the most versatile unit that can be easily be applied to the biggest ammount of trategies.. with the treabuchet as a final smash:

Sadly i don't want to make a summoner, but it seems like the more interesting idea i guess trying to use Duck Hunt Dog as a model.

my idea be a villager, with male and female skins, some of his basic attacks would be chops with a wood axe, using berry bushes and maybe its smashes he could summon sheep. as for aerials, a combination of hunter's arch and axe swings

They also have a resource number similar to MP that is food, food is spent for the summons. and it's recollected by hitting with some of the sheep/berries/fishnets attacks, Hunter's arch.

Down B would be a charge attack similar to zelda's phantom when he summons a cavalry unit, that would stay in place during a second and then charge, light charge a light cavalry, (that just tramples foes), Medium charge a Knight that also add a swipe and Full charge a paladin that also add a small jump (changing teh arch of the attack) Light cavalry resist one hit, knight resist 2 hits or 10% and paladin resist 20%. this unit can also be mounted as a gogoat, for **** and giggles.

Side B Would summon a skirmisher that stays one second blocking with it's shield (like links shield) and then throws a javelin. similar to duck hunt's gunman.

Neutral b would be building a watchtower... (with food?) similar to villager's tree, and upon completion fires small arrows.

Up B would be riding a fishing boat through an imaginary water stream? (similar to squirtles's) generate a good ammount of food on hit.

Taunts and would include monks and relics doing wololo stuff...
Final smash is a hit that transport the enemies to a castle where they fill safe, but villager is in teh distance with a treabuchet.


Victory screen would include an upgraded town center and each of teh villager colors is a different civilization, which is also reflected in teh town center.

Inb4 Yet another villager? smash is full of villagers using axes. etc...

I like this moveset.

I had a concept for Villager (AoE) from when AC's Villager (Smash 4 as a whole) was not even announced. Luckily I've found it right now and I can post it here (it's a bit different but shares some similarities).
It's based on Age of Empires 1 specifically.

Spoiler: Moveset

Axe (woodcutter)
A side slash with an axe, similar to AC's Villager's axe, but with more range.
...
The villager will hit the ground with the axe as if there was a wood log, several times until you stop tapping. It's quite powerful as neutral attack, but a bit slow.
SMASH
It's like the attack done by tapping A multiple times, but only one single attack and very strong.



Trident (when villagers attack buildings) and Axe (woodcutter)
A long range attack, similar to stabbing with a lance/spear
If performed mid-air, it's not a trident anymore, it's back to axe, but the direction of the attack is a slash that starts up and goes downward (spike?).
Backward mid-air is a side slash with the axe similar to neutral A on ground.
SMASH
Similar, stronger and longer attack
Dash
Spear (hunter)
The villager does a step and throws a spear forward.


Plow (farmer) and Pickaxe (miner)
The villager uses the plow on the ground in front of him, causing the enemies to be thrown upward.
If performed mid-air, the villager makes a somersault holding a pickaxe and causing damage downward.
SMASH
Instead of using the plow, the villager uses a mining pickaxe and hits the ground very strongly, twice, one forward and another backward.


Bone (fight other units, stone age)
The villager attacks above by slashing an huge bone of some beast. it's more or less the same on ground and mid-air.
SMASH
The bone is longer and bigger, it deals more damage and knockback.


Grab and transport (picking resources)
The villager grabs the enemy and transports it similar to how Donkey Kong does, but using the same pose as they do in the original game when they transport resources to a storage pit/town center/etc.

Hit the enemy with the knee while transporting it (you can't move while performing this move)


Toss the enemy on ground (forward) with force

Same as forward but with a different knockback direction (and slighty different animation too)

The villager launches the enemy up-backward, almost like a backdrop.

Launch the enemy up and hit with a stone-age huge bone to knockback it straight up.



Priest (costume)
The villager becomes a priest.
If the enemy is facing you and is close enough, it will be slowed down and eventually put in a shorter version of the "broken shield" status when the conversion is successful.
If performed during a team match, if there is no enemy in the attack ange but there are allies instead, the sound will be different and they will be healed slighty (you can't heal yourself). If there are both enemies and allies in the attack range, the attack will give priority to stunning the enemies (as an easter egg, they will temporarily change the color to your team's when "converted", until they recover from the "broken shield" status).
Kirby can copy this move (Imagine Kirby saying "Wololoo").


Villager will build a big crossbow on wheels and pushes/pulls it. You can only move slowly front and backward, can't jump, and will throw big arrows by tapping B. Jump or press A to release it. When you release it, it becomes an heavy throwable object like an item box but without items inside, that breaks on contact. If you drop onto an enemy while holding the crossbow, it will be destroyed and deal damage like when throwing it.
It can be built mid-air but you will likely just fall to ground before it's even finished.


Villager builds a catapult. On ground it's basically the same as the crossbow, except that it moves even slower, and attacks by throwing rocks in a arc. If performed mid-air, the catapult will throw the villager instead, dealing less damage but allowing him to recover. Similar to Sonic's spring, the catapult will fall down causing damage to enemies below. A catapult is too heavy to grab, but can be destroyed by attacking it (it becomes an obstacle).


Villager builds a defense tower that shoots arrows. It works similar to AC Villager's tree, it can be built in several steps but unlike the tree, it doesn't require 3 steps but a set time instead (you can stop and continue to build it at will). It can be destroyed but requires a bit more damage than a tree.

Final Smash:
Wonder.
Villager calls many other villagers, and they build a wonder. When hitting the ground with the hammer, the villagers cause the ground to shake, dealing damage to everyone in the stage.

EDIT:

Ah, I've found the cultured option. Seriously tho, an Age rep is sorta my current pipe dream character. Selecting a potential character is definitely the hardest part. AoE II is undoubtedly the most popular entry, especially after its recent definitive edition. The problem is you either have generic units (albeit iconic) or real historical figures. And with the latter, its not like Dynasty Warriors or Codename STEAM where they've got a distinct look or are highly exaggerated, rather they're played pretty straight; Joan of Arc doesn't have crazy pyrokenisis, she's just Joan of Arc. So I'm not sure you could use them. Although I am partial to La Hire, he'd have the best taunts in the game easy

Spoiler: #LaHire4Smash

I'm also not sure about the RTS mechanics, at least as described so far in this thread. Don't get me wrong, I think it is important to capture the game-feel of a character when remaking them in smash. idk, it's just that it seems overly complicated, certainly moreso than anything we've got in smash so far. Maybe if it was the villager as the base and you could create npc soldiers, kinda as an extension of DDD's Brawl side B, but even tho that's probably oversimplified it still feels too much for me. So instead let me suggest an alternative:

This is Arkantos, the main character from the Age of Mythology Campaign. He's an Admiral from Atlantis who made his name fighting pirates and agrees to aid the Greeks in the Trojan war. Plot ensues. He uses a spear, which is nice. Oh, and he's a dad btw. Yeah, he's a silly somewhat shallow RTS campaign character, but he is a fully realized original character. And AoM is probably the second most popular entry, so the choice isn't totally unfounded. Plus, for people who like to see ties to Nintendo there were ports of Age of Empires and Age of Mythology on the DS. They changed genres from RTS to SRPG and were kinda bad, but they exist.

Funnily enough, Arkantos kinda has the opposite moveset problem of what I just complained about. He's got a unique ability "Rally" where he raises the attack power of nearby allies which could be cool for doubles. And he has one attack animation, which would work well for a forward smash. That's about it. Not saying Sakurai couldn't make something outa nothing, but there isn't a lot to draw on to make you feel like you're playing as Arkantos.

Still easily the least likely character I'd like to see tho.

I also like this.
Well, I haven't played Age of Mythology but I think that you can make a moveset for that guy by letting him be surrounded by villagers and soldiers who die easily (like pikmins) but can be summoned and do stuff for you maybe?
Seriously, the Age of series is very underrated when it comes to Smash.

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Speaking of The World Ends With You, remember Tansut? The dude who leaked Cloud hours before he was revealed and I believe teased Hero multiple times.

He just posted his, in Resetera's Smash speculation thread.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Speaking of The World Ends With You, remember Tansut? The dude who leaked Cloud hours before he was revealed and I believe teased Hero multiple times.

He just posted his, in Resetera's Smash speculation thread.

View attachment 272953

I mean, I'm going to be pessimistic and say that the Final Remix stuff alongside the new characters in that artwork may mean it's just TWEWY 2.


...How the hell is TWEWY 2 happening something I can write off as the lesser thing?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Speaking of The World Ends With You, remember Tansut? The dude who leaked Cloud hours before he was revealed and I believe teased Hero multiple times.

He just posted his, in Resetera's Smash speculation thread.

View attachment 272953

Hdusufhiejrneihfbdnd

don’t do that-

don’t give me hope.

 

[MrElectroG64]

I suppose I'll post this here, because there isn't anything close to a dedicated character thread for this lol. A sort of mad scientist idea for a unique non-captain Pikmin rep. I'll let it speak for itself though. I'm not entirely sure if it could work in Smash, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Here's a link to the image elsewhere, so as to make it a little more legible: https://www.flickr.com/photos/184893183@N07/49941668793/in/dateposted-public/

 

[Speed Weed]

Speaking of The World Ends With You, remember Tansut? The dude who leaked Cloud hours before he was revealed and I believe teased Hero multiple times.

He just posted his, in Resetera's Smash speculation thread.

View attachment 272953

'IGHT BOYS

LET'S ****ING GO

TWEWY GANG

FINALLY

WINS

in some form

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also, Zippo got banned from ResetEra lately but this was his last message:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[edumolon11]

Speaking of The World Ends With You, remember Tansut? The dude who leaked Cloud hours before he was revealed and I believe teased Hero multiple times.

He just posted his, in Resetera's Smash speculation thread.

View attachment 272953

Men, my most wanted its Sora but... Imagine Neku in Smash with that OST to promote TWEWY2 ala Hero with DQ XI S...

Sorry my dear Sora and Geno bros, but Neku...

 

[ZelDan]

Also, Zippo got banned from ResetEra lately but this was his last message:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

The holiday title will be a second, bigger Mario collection!

 

[Digital Hazard]

Hot take:
Whenever one says that Zelda "needs" a new character, I can't help but roll my eyes at it. Reason? Because Smash has never been about trying to fill-in unexistent quotas.

Remember when during the times of Smash 4 people said "We need a Grass-type starter because we have a fully evolved Fire and Water type!" and bandwagoned on Sceptile on DLC? And how that thinking persisted during Ultimate's pre-release but changed to Decidueye? Even though Charizard was re-integrated to Pokémon Trainer? And instead Sakurai gave us Incineroar, why? Because he thought a wrestler was an interesting concept. Now there's people legit going for Rillaboom simply because "GRASS-TYPE".

Or how some Fire Emblem fans tend to go "We need Hector or Ephraim so the weapon triangle is represented", even though their games by now are old and Smash fans fearmongering for the series would make them hate them for being more "overrepresentation" in their children's party game anyway? And how Byleth is the walking Weapon Triangle? But noooo, they still use their sword for some moves, so they don't count at all. I've seen people say that their spear and axe move just feel like bigger swords, or saying "We need more classes!" as if expecting a secondary character like Seth or Tharja to show up, some even using Robin as "proof" that secondary characters should be possible.

"We need a new Zelda character because it's big" feels just as shallow to me, it's like there's some unexistent need to prove the series being superior in a game that by itself is a big commercial, and most of the time people don't even think and ask for the sake of it. Yes, Tingle/Skull Kid/Midna/Ghirahim/the Champions would definitely feel nice to have around, but there's no quota the devs or Nintendo have as a necessity of filling by putting them in. Some Kirby fans tend to be like this too, and that comes from a Bandana Dee supporter.

"But my representation!" a fanmade metric that if we were to take seriously by "my sales" would mean EarthBound would have as much as Final Fantasy currently does if not less; and that the game would just be "Mario vs Pokémon vs Miis with a few others". I'm pretty sure at this point Nintendo doesn't cares about "history" either when we throw money at them anyway -cough- Corrin and Fates being the best selling FE until TH -cough- no matter how much we end complaining.

Not stopping any of you guys from supporting or disliking whoever you want for whatever reason and are free to disagree, these are just the thoughts of a random internet person.

 

[SNEKeater]

Well they certainly have my attention. If this is an anime I hope it looks better than this poster. That doesn't look like Nomura drew it, and the two new characters don't look like Nomura designs. Still going to keep an eye out.

Those 2 characters are part of the convention, they're not TWEWY.

 

[M@R!3]

Those 2 characters are part of the convention, they're not TWEWY.

Never seen them before, but that explains a lot.

 

[Cosmic77]

Hot take:
Whenever one says that Zelda "needs" a new character, I can't help but roll my eyes at it. Reason? Because Smash has never been about trying to fill-in unexistent quotas.

Remember when during the times of Smash 4 people said "We need a Grass-type starter because we have a fully evolved Fire and Water type!" and bandwagoned on Sceptile on DLC? And how that thinking persisted during Ultimate's pre-release but changed to Decidueye? Even though Charizard was re-integrated to Pokémon Trainer? And instead Sakurai gave us Incineroar, why? Because he thought a wrestler was an interesting concept. Now there's people legit going for Rillaboom simply because "GRASS-TYPE".

Or how some Fire Emblem fans tend to go "We need Hector or Ephraim so the weapon triangle is represented", even though their games by now are old and Smash fans fearmongering for the series would make them hate them for being more "overrepresentation" in their children's party game anyway? And how Byleth is the walking Weapon Triangle? But noooo, they still use their sword for some moves, so they don't count at all. I've seen people say that their spear and axe move just feel like bigger swords, or saying "We need more classes!" as if expecting a secondary character like Seth or Tharja to show up, some even using Robin as "proof" that secondary characters should be possible.

"We need a new Zelda character because it's big" feels just as shallow to me, it's like there's some unexistent need to prove the series being superior in a game that by itself is a big commercial, and most of the time people don't even think and ask for the sake of it. Yes, Tingle/Skull Kid/Midna/Ghirahim/the Champions would definitely feel nice to have around, but there's no quota the devs or Nintendo have as a necessity of filling by putting them in. Some Kirby fans tend to be like this too, and that comes from a Bandana Dee supporter.

"But my representation!" a fanmade metric that if we were to take seriously by "my sales" would mean EarthBound would have as much as Final Fantasy currently does if not less; and that the game would just be "Mario vs Pokémon vs Miis with a few others". I'm pretty sure at this point Nintendo doesn't cares about "history" either when we throw money at them anyway -cough- Corrin and Fates being the best selling FE until TH -cough- no matter how much we end complaining.

Not stopping any of you guys from supporting or disliking whoever you want for whatever reason and are free to disagree, these are just the thoughts of a random internet person.

The desire to see more Zelda characters isn't just about fulfilling a quota though. If we were talking about another big first-party franchise like Animal Crossing or Splatoon where our options are fairly limited, then yeah, I might agree with you, but there are lots of unique options that have been passed over..

When people say they want more Zelda characters, I don't think they mean they'd be fine with literally any character who would fulfill that quota. It's just that there's a lot of iconic and unique characters who feel like they should've been added a long time ago.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

'IGHT BOYS

LET'S ****ING GO

TWEWY GANG

FINALLY

WINS

in some form

For ****s sake let it be a sequel. TWEWY on Switch did pretty good right? I’m not making that up am I?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

For ****s sake let it be a sequel. TWEWY on Switch did pretty good right? I’m not making that up am I?

It actually did poorly from what I heard due to the docked controls being ass, but Square Enix is well aware of the demand for a sequel and the new mode in Final Remix seems to set the stage for that

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Hot take:
Whenever one says that Zelda "needs" a new character, I can't help but roll my eyes at it. Reason? Because Smash has never been about trying to fill-in unexistent quotas.

Remember when during the times of Smash 4 people said "We need a Grass-type starter because we have a fully evolved Fire and Water type!" and bandwagoned on Sceptile on DLC? And how that thinking persisted during Ultimate's pre-release but changed to Decidueye? Even though Charizard was re-integrated to Pokémon Trainer? And instead Sakurai gave us Incineroar, why? Because he thought a wrestler was an interesting concept. Now there's people legit going for Rillaboom simply because "GRASS-TYPE".

Or how some Fire Emblem fans tend to go "We need Hector or Ephraim so the weapon triangle is represented", even though their games by now are old and Smash fans fearmongering for the series would make them hate them for being more "overrepresentation" in their children's party game anyway? And how Byleth is the walking Weapon Triangle? But noooo, they still use their sword for some moves, so they don't count at all. I've seen people say that their spear and axe move just feel like bigger swords, or saying "We need more classes!" as if expecting a secondary character like Seth or Tharja to show up, some even using Robin as "proof" that secondary characters should be possible.

"We need a new Zelda character because it's big" feels just as shallow to me, it's like there's some unexistent need to prove the series being superior in a game that by itself is a big commercial, and most of the time people don't even think and ask for the sake of it. Yes, Tingle/Skull Kid/Midna/Ghirahim/the Champions would definitely feel nice to have around, but there's no quota the devs or Nintendo have as a necessity of filling by putting them in. Some Kirby fans tend to be like this too, and that comes from a Bandana Dee supporter.

"But my representation!" a fanmade metric that if we were to take seriously by "my sales" would mean EarthBound would have as much as Final Fantasy currently does if not less; and that the game would just be "Mario vs Pokémon vs Miis with a few others". I'm pretty sure at this point Nintendo doesn't cares about "history" either when we throw money at them anyway -cough- Corrin and Fates being the best selling FE until TH -cough- no matter how much we end complaining.

Not stopping any of you guys from supporting or disliking whoever you want for whatever reason and are free to disagree, these are just the thoughts of a random internet person.

While I agree with you on the quota thing, I do think it's a more complicated issue. Most people, from what I can tell, use the word "need" as hyperbole in this scenario. They don't mean the game is garbage, but that they would prefer to have more. There are a lot of decisions made over 20 years that made the roster of Ultimate what it is today, and some of those decisions don't necessarily work best for a game with a roster this large, assuming every character was specifically chosen for this game. Since the decision wasn't "make a big roster from scratch" and was instead "let's dump in every character who has already been here" the roster can feel lopsided or awkward to some.

Zelda is one example of being awkward. Without "everyone is here" we probably wouldn't have three Links. We'd still have two. And there's a good chance we still wouldn't have gotten anyone new. I do understand that people love Zelda, though, and would be happy to give some of the series' quirkier characters a spotlight. Most of Zelda's best characters aren't the tri-force trio. Linebeck, for one.

Fire Emblem is a series with a roster many people would redo. As a Fire Emblem fan, I would have characters from different classes, I won't lie. The series has a lot to offer that hasn't and may never be touched in Smash (and would make the series' reps less spacing-heavy as a whole). But I don't think we need more characters than we have. Eight is more than enough. I mostly just want people to realize FE characters aren't all the same, which Smash has historically done a poor job of showing.

 

[Digital Hazard]

It's just that there's a lot of iconic and unique characters who feel like they should've been added a long time ago.

The problem with the iconicity argument is that there's what we think is iconic... And what the companies think would benefit them.

From what I have seen and assumed, to Nintendo, who they consider iconic are the Triforce holders. They are the faces of the series, and thus the ones that get featured in almost every instalment, and the only ones who get truly prioritized.

Compare that to every first-party RPG series in Smash changing face per new instalment and thus Smash adapting by trying to introduce them.

Midna might be one of the best and most popular characters in history, but once her game is done, most she's gotten is Hyrule Warriors, a spin-off, a remaster, and very sparse merch when compared to the Triforce holders. Skull Kid, Ghirahim and other fan favorites in a similar limbo, at least from what I have observed.

 

[ZelDan]

I'm fine with people wanting more Zelda characters as long as it isn't in the context of "WELL ZELDA LINES NINTENDO'S POCKETS MORE THAN FIRE EMBLEM SO THEREFOR WE NEED MORE ZELDA CHARACTERS"

Personally the only Zelda character I have any interest in seeing added is Impa. beyond that I'd just like to see them handle different characters differently. Make Ganondorf more unique, make Young Link more like his Majora's mask self, if not in moveset atleast aesthetically (give him his termina shield and Razor sword). Give Link alts for all his designs: OoT, TP, SS, BotW; do the same with Zelda.

 

[Digital Hazard]

Fire Emblem is a series with a roster many people would redo. As a Fire Emblem fan, I would have characters from different classes, I won't lie. The series has a lot to offer that hasn't and may never be touched in Smash (and would make the series' reps less spacing-heavy as a whole). But I don't think we need more characters than we have. Eight is more than enough. I mostly just want people to realize FE characters aren't all the same, which Smash has historically done a poor job of showing.

imo that is more Fire Emblem's fault than Smash for the simple tradition of most of the games starring a blue haired Lord with a sword, and Smash simply having no option than to go with them fue to marketing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Reminder about Ness being used as an base and as Rie proposed that could be for Neku.

Oh yeah. Its all lining up now.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Fire Emblem fans tend to go "We need Hector or Ephraim so the weapon triangle is represented"

Me, a madman an intellectual: Now that Byleth is here, wielding the whole weapon triangle, we need a Pegasus Knight in Smash, because...

Pegasus Knights are awesome.

Wyvern riders are all right too i guess.

 

[Cosmic77]

The problem with the iconicity argument is that there's what we think is iconic... And what the companies think would benefit them.

From what I have seen and assumed, to Nintendo, who they consider iconic are the Triforce holders. They are the faces of the series, and thus the ones that get prioritized in almost every instalment, and the only ones who get truly prioritized.

Compare that to every first-party RPG series in Smash changing face per new instalment and thus Smash adapting by trying to introduce them.

Midna might be one of the best and most popular characters in history, but once her game is done, most she's gotten is Hyrule Warriors, a spin-off, a remaster, and very sparse merch when compared to the Triforce holders. Skull Kid, Ghirahim and other fan favorites in a similar limbo, at least from what I have observed.

To be honest, I don't consider Midna or Skull Kid to be much different from someone like Roy or Corrin. Even if they weren't the star of their game, like you said, they're still some of Nintendo's most iconic characters.

I don't buy the whole "only the Triforce/must be in multiple games" theory, and sooner or later they'll probably have to break this rule. I think it's more likely that bad timing stopped certain characters from getting in Smash.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Me, a madman an intellectual: Now that Byleth is here, wielding the whole weapon triangle, we need a Pegasus Knight in Smash, because...

Pegasus Knights are awesome.

Wyvern riders are all right too i guess.

Pegasus knights suck though.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Pegasus knights suck though.

So does Roy.

I would be partial to a general/fortress knight, but an Ultimate-like Smash might not be the game for that. Maybe a thief or archer.

 

[Dinoman96]

Hot take:
Whenever one says that Zelda "needs" a new character, I can't help but roll my eyes at it. Reason? Because Smash has never been about trying to fill-in unexistent quotas.

Zero Suit Samus says hi

https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update

I put Zero Suit Samus in thinking I wanted to include more characters from the popular Metroid series. Also, since Smash Bros. has few female characters, I was quite happy to include her.

Literally just threw her in there as an excuse to say "look guys, we added another Metroid rep! And another female character!".

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Reminder about Ness being used as an base and as Rie proposed that could be for Neku.

Oh yeah. Its all lining up now.

I don't understand this logic. The only DLC character we know for sure that uses a base is Piranha Plant from Bowser Jr and that's because the latters motion files were left in the former. We don't know if the other DLC fighters use other characters as bases.

They left Jr's motion files in Piranha Plant 👀👀
This fact confirms she is based on Jr. pic.twitter.com/bH0XHUGiwl

— Meshima (@Meshima_) February 1, 2019

 

[Digital Hazard]

To be honest, I don't consider Midna or Skull Kid to be much different from someone like Roy or Corrin. Even if they weren't the star of their game, like you said, they're still some of Nintendo's most iconic characters.

I don't buy the whole "only the Triforce/must be in multiple games" theory, and sooner or later they'll probably have to break this rule. I think it's more likely that bad timing stopped certain characters from getting in Smash.

The thing about that comparison is that, as important as they are to their respective entry, Skull Kid and Midna are still in a game where Link is the main face and protagonist, whereas Roy and Corrin are the main characters of their games, and thus the main faces of their series for a period of time.

Not saying that this "rule" can't be broken, but it still seems more like the case than bad timing. After all, timing was actually favorable: Twilight Princess was released before Brawl and thus it focused more in content from it, the Triforce holders updated to that game. Skyward Sword only released a year before Smash 4 started development. Majora's Mask had its remake around the time of Smash 4 DLC. And Ultimate introduced Breath of the Wild material as the most recent game then, updating to have its Link. Yet Midna, Ghirahim, and Skull Kid are ATs and the Champions just spirits.

Zero Suit Samus says hi

https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/05/31/sakurais-smash-bros-update



Literally just threw her in there was an excuse to say "look guys, we added another Metroid rep! And another female character!".

Fair with this one though.

 

[Grain]

I'm seeing so many people talk about who they want in smash so badly on this post so i checked with Cy and they let me post about this project of mine,

Im hosting my own fan made ballot! and im trying to turn it into the worlds largest ballot ever recorded in human history! its nearly halfway to that point as well so you may have already seen it! Im updating people on the results to the poll every now and then, These where the last recorded results!

Please if you have a character you've always wanted in smash why not drop a vote for them, a little help goes a long way!

The ballot! (its a google doc)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hot take:
Whenever one says that Zelda "needs" a new character, I can't help but roll my eyes at it. Reason? Because Smash has never been about trying to fill-in unexistent quotas.

Remember when during the times of Smash 4 people said "We need a Grass-type starter because we have a fully evolved Fire and Water type!" and bandwagoned on Sceptile on DLC? And how that thinking persisted during Ultimate's pre-release but changed to Decidueye? Even though Charizard was re-integrated to Pokémon Trainer? And instead Sakurai gave us Incineroar, why? Because he thought a wrestler was an interesting concept. Now there's people legit going for Rillaboom simply because "GRASS-TYPE".

Or how some Fire Emblem fans tend to go "We need Hector or Ephraim so the weapon triangle is represented", even though their games by now are old and Smash fans fearmongering for the series would make them hate them for being more "overrepresentation" in their children's party game anyway? And how Byleth is the walking Weapon Triangle? But noooo, they still use their sword for some moves, so they don't count at all. I've seen people say that their spear and axe move just feel like bigger swords, or saying "We need more classes!" as if expecting a secondary character like Seth or Tharja to show up, some even using Robin as "proof" that secondary characters should be possible.

"We need a new Zelda character because it's big" feels just as shallow to me, it's like there's some unexistent need to prove the series being superior in a game that by itself is a big commercial, and most of the time people don't even think and ask for the sake of it. Yes, Tingle/Skull Kid/Midna/Ghirahim/the Champions would definitely feel nice to have around, but there's no quota the devs or Nintendo have as a necessity of filling by putting them in. Some Kirby fans tend to be like this too, and that comes from a Bandana Dee supporter.

"But my representation!" a fanmade metric that if we were to take seriously by "my sales" would mean EarthBound would have as much as Final Fantasy currently does if not less; and that the game would just be "Mario vs Pokémon vs Miis with a few others". I'm pretty sure at this point Nintendo doesn't cares about "history" either when we throw money at them anyway -cough- Corrin and Fates being the best selling FE until TH -cough- no matter how much we end complaining.

Not stopping any of you guys from supporting or disliking whoever you want for whatever reason and are free to disagree, these are just the thoughts of a random internet person.

Here's my counterpoint: The bigger a series is, the more material it has to work with. Ideally, each series with playable characters in Super Smash Bros. will have a combination of characters that shows you what the series is about. The Super Mario series does this well. It's got the main playable character (), everyone's favorite player 2 (), the main McGuffin (), the main villain (), and some other recurring baddies (), as well as one who pretty much solely represents spinoffs (). It's only missing one incredibly recognizable character (Toad), and after that, people just want a specific spinoff character (Geno) and/or a different spinoff character from the same games as Daisy (Waluigi). The series is pretty much set, and almost everyone is happy with it from a representational standpoint.

To contrast, Fire Emblem has it's main hero, known for it's ability to wield a very special sword (), a dragon shifter (), and a master tactician (). And even though this roster does cover a lot of games in the franchise, it doesn't even cover the best ones, with Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade and Fire Emblem Fates being some of the least popular in the series. (Fire Emblem Fates may have made a lot of money, but it was also super expensive in order to get the full experience. All three games in the set will set you back over $100.) They also don't cover the different types of units of the game, and not all of these are purely represented just popular, but otherwise unimportant characters. For Pegasus Knights, there's Caeda, who is basically a secondary protagonist to Marth, The Paladin is often the hero's mentor figure, and so on. Byleth comes close with his different weapons, but ironically, he'd be more mechanically distinct from the other characters if his moveset just focused on the unique properties of his own sword. I'd say Pokémon fails to do this as well with it's laser focus on the starters rather than selecting interesting Pokémon from throughout the games (and yes, the whole "complete the trio" argument is pretty silly, as it has nothing to do with the character's quality). However, these series do at least have a lot of characters, so you can at least be excited in how much attention they get.

As far as The Legend of Zelda series is concerned, it has a growing cast of really cool characters that go unused in the roster, all the while multiple versions of the same character are allowed to stay, and one of the characters feels a bit lacking in terms of representing itself. So while "The Legend of Zelda series needs a new character" is a bad argument, it's not really supposed to be one. I see it as more of a voicing of the frustration that other series get a bunch of different characters (even though a lot of them are in the same visual or mechanical archetype) while they still just have three of one character (who could be used to represent different features used within the series but aren't), two of another (though these are the most well done), and one that doesn't quite represent himself properly in the eyes of most, and that, at this point, they're game for literally any of the cool cast of characters that have been seen throughout the years both because they like the series, and because they want its portion of the roster to show off all the cool stuff the series has to offer.

Side tangent, I'm pretty sure people just want Bandana Waddle Dee, and use "he's the player 4!" as a way of saying "yes. He is, in fact, an actual character that matters withing the grand scheme of the Kirby series. He is not a generic enemy. Stop calling him a generic enemy."

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

I don't understand this logic. The only DLC character we know for sure that uses a base is Piranha Plant from Bowser Jr and that's because the latters motion files were left in the former. We don't know if the other DLC fighters use other characters as bases.

They left Jr's motion files in Piranha Plant 👀👀
This fact confirms she is based on Jr. pic.twitter.com/bH0XHUGiwl

— Meshima (@Meshima_) February 1, 2019

I believe every character does, at least in the sense that it's easier to edit previous data than to create it from scratch. It wouldn't make any sense to make Hero's Dash attack from scratch when you can go to Link's files, copy them, and edit until it fits. Whether they use a specific character as a base all the time, idk, but at least the parts are probably borrowed.

 

[Knight Dude]

I realized I forgot Microsoft, but obviously the only real choice is Fulgore.

Again,

Capcom: Mega Man X, or Dante if new series only.
Namco: Jin Kazama
Square: Lara Croft
SEGA: Axel Stone/Blaze Fielding
Konami: Bill Rizer
SNK: Kyo

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pegasus knights suck though.

Um...Aren't they (as Falcon Knights) typically one of the strongest classes in the games?

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Um...Aren't they (as Falcon Knights) typically one of the strongest classes in the games?

Only because of mobility and speed. They usually have low attack.

Edit: Also, in Three Houses they make the best evasion tanks if you're willing to not have a dancer.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai can add a character for the sake of a rep. But right now Nintendo is choosing, so I don't think that's too relevant of a reason we would get a Zelda rep.

On the other hand, promoting specific games makes more sense.

Anyway, I'd love a new Zelda rep, but there's only a few characters I prefer; Pig Ganon(ALTTP), Tingle(MM specifically, but seeing as that one's a stage hazard, I would be fine with his Toon incarnation too. Especially since that one resides in the normal Zelda world. MM is a parallel dimension and all. I've felt there's two Tingles due to that. They're pretty different in characterization too...), and Oracle Impa. I do like Linkle a bit, but I barely played as her in HW, so... not much to say on her.

 

[Droodle]

For ****s sake let it be a sequel. TWEWY on Switch did pretty good right? I’m not making that up am I?

I thought it didn't do too hot, but actually estimating the sales; I think it ended up somewhere around the likes of 300-500k. Which while isn't huge, it probably still ended up being profitable in some form considering that it was mostly a glorified port with some bonus content. This isn't the first time Anime Expo + Square have done something gaming related. They had KH + DQ demos back in 2018 iirc.

 

[Digital Hazard]

To contrast, Fire Emblem has it's main hero, known for it's ability to wield a very special sword (), a dragon shifter (), and a master tactician (). And even though this roster does cover a lot of games in the franchise, it doesn't even cover the best ones, with Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade and Fire Emblem Fates being some of the least popular in the series. (Fire Emblem Fates may have made a lot of money, but it was also super expensive in order to get the full experience. All three games in the set will set you back over $100.)

This is the only point I have to correct.

Fates is popular, second best-selling FE game, just also highly controversial due to some admittedly questionable decisions that deserve criticism such as the lackluster story and DLC prizes. Still, more people would be able to recognize characters from Fates than those from Genealogy, no matter how better that game may be.

There's a reason why there was a while when Fire Emblem Heroes was saturated with alts from Fates (and Awakening), and they still receive alts regularly even when characters from other games finally have some spotlight.

Pig Ganon(ALTTP)

I don't know why I didn't think this before, but count me onboard.

If Ganondorf is gonna still be stuck as a Captain Falcon pseudo-clone, this would be good, swinging a trident and doing magic spells all around the battlefield.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't know why I didn't think this before, but count me onboard.

If Ganondorf is gonna still be stuck as a Captain Falcon pseudo-clone, this would be good, swinging a trident and doing magic spells all around the battlefield.

Ganondorf wasn't even created with a weapon in mind. That's been Ganon's shtick after his first appearance. Ganondorf of course knows how to use a sword due to lore. His original weapon was an unused knife, after all. Definitely could be a bit more magical, though I do wonder what they'd have called Dead Man's Volley at the time of Melee/Brawl if it was implemented. It has no name until the DS games, heh. Lightning Ball?

Anyway, Ganon himself is also a teleporting badass, along with being a projectile frenzy character. You have the fire bats, his own fireballs(that are unblockable like Gleeok's), his trident throw, along with, as shown by the OOT version, immense ability to keep the opponent away. He also can do rushdown swipes with his Trident in some games, though I might be remembering that as a Zelda Classic thing. Similar to Ike's Side B in this case.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

This is the only point I have to correct.

Fates is popular, second best-selling FE game, just also highly controversial due to some admittedly questionable decisions that deserve criticism such as the lackluster story and DLC prizes. Still, more people would be able to recognize characters from Fates than those from Genealogy, no matter how better that game may be.

There's a reason why there was a while when Fire Emblem Heroes was saturated with alts from Fates (and Awakening), and they still receive alts regularly even when characters from other games finally have some spotlight.

I'll take your word for it because my popularity gauge here comes from a few Fire Emblem fans, and this thread, but I still remain highly skeptical of this statement due to never hearing anything positive about the games, the high price (and fact it came right after Awakening) seeming to explain the high sales figures, and the Fire Emblem Fates characters getting thrown around more often than the older (and now, more obscure) titles in the series could easily cause them them to be more recognizable.

EDIT: Also, I'd imagine Camilla gets a ton of skins for two very big reasons.