Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Dukeofdeath5]

If we got a KOF rep I'd prefer Terry

 

[GoodGrief741]

From what I heard it wasn't canceled by Nintendo, but rebranded. No idea on it's current status though.

I hope it comes out, it looked really promising.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I'm not sure if this question was already answered but how would feel if a sony rep(Kratos,Sackboy, Aloy etc.) join as the 5th fighter's pass character(I know it's not gonna happen but still I'm just questioning)

 

[Opossum]

I'm not sure if this question was already answered but how would feel if a sony rep(Kratos,Sackboy, Aloy etc.) join as the 5th fighter's pass character(I know it's not gonna happen but still I'm just questioning)

I'd be super happy with Sackboy or Nathan Drake. Kratos would be cool too.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Sorry for dwelling on the Mai topic again, but wasn't Tharja's trophy cut from Smash 4 for being too suggestive? Because if Nintendo had to cut her trophy to keep the E10 rating, there's no way they're gonna add a playable character whose design is arguably more provocative. Regardless of what anyone says about Bayonetta, her body is at least covered up and is only unclothed when she summons demons, which they easily toned down for her final smash. Just had to say that about the topic since surprisingly nobody seemed to bring up the Tharja thing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm not sure if this question was already answered but how would feel if a sony rep(Kratos,Sackboy, Aloy etc.) join as the 5th fighter's pass character(I know it's not gonna happen but still I'm just questioning)

I'm kinda biased towards the older Sony IPs like Ratchet & Clank, Jak, Sly Cooper and Ape Escape. I also have a friend who would lose his **** if Kratos was announced, so I'd be okay with him too.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm not sure if this question was already answered but how would feel if a sony rep(Kratos,Sackboy, Aloy etc.) join as the 5th fighter's pass character(I know it's not gonna happen but still I'm just questioning)

I'd be stoked to see Kratos or Nathan Drake. I love/like most other Sony characters but I don't think anyone but those two works as a company rep.

What I do want is another PlayStation All-Stars.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'd be stoked to see Kratos or Nathan Drake. I love/like most other Sony characters but I don't think anyone but those two works as a company rep.

What I do want is another PlayStation All-Stars.

It's always a shame to bring that up, because PSASBR could have been great. But I feel that they made it way too much like Smash in some areas and in the places the game could have stood out, they made weird decisions, like the "kill with supers" thing and some roster choices. "Crossover stages" was a really interesting catch, though.

Look at Rivals of Aether, Brawlhalla or that Japan-exclusive Smash-like from Konami. At least those stand out in their own way (though the Konami one does so in a weird variety show-esque fashion).

 

[GoodGrief741]

It's always a shame to bring that up, because PSASBR could have been great. But I feel that they made it way too much like Smash in some areas and in the places the game could have stood out, they made weird decisions, like the "kill with supers" thing and some roster choices. "Crossover stages" was a really interesting catch, though.

Look at Rivals of Aether, Brawlhalla or that weird Smash-like from Konami. At least those stand out in their own way (though the Konami one does so in a weird variety show-esque fashion).

Crossover stages were great, but I think beyond gameplay (it tried to be unlike Smash in all the wrong places) what killed PSASBR was character selection. Just terrible. It was a shill factory lacking many of Sony's own great characters, and the third parties were just all over the place.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's always a shame to bring that up, because PSASBR could have been great. But I feel that they made it way too much like Smash in some areas and in the places the game could have stood out, they made weird decisions, like the "kill with supers" thing and some roster choices. "Crossover stages" was a really interesting catch, though.

Look at Rivals of Aether, Brawlhalla or that Japan-exclusive Smash-like from Konami. At least those stand out in their own way (though the Konami one does so in a weird variety show-esque fashion).

I thought for the most part the character list was reasonable for a first entry. Second one having even more awesome options would've made sense. I felt what killed it was the "kill with supers", really. That makes it just plain awful to work with for tournaments. It absolutely could've done better if you removed that. The roster wasn't even that lacking overall. A small amount of characters, yes, but it still had a pretty beefy roster full of a decent amount of icons.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Crossover stages were great, but I think beyond gameplay (it tried to be unlike Smash in all the wrong places) what killed PSASBR was character selection. Just terrible. It was a shill factory lacking many of Sony's own great characters, and the third parties were just all over the place.

I really can't understand why Raiden was chosen over Snake (Snake still had a big connection with Sony consoles, despite being in Brawl first, and it's not like one thing should cancel the other in the first place).

Nor why they added Daniel Fortesque (iconic, sure, but kinda obscure for non-Sony fans) and not Crash or Spyro. It's like if Sakurai had added Marth before Link or Banjo before Mario for Smash 64.

Frankly, the dream would be seeing more collabs between Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft's IPs... but that chance comes once in a blue moon.

 

[Deleted member]

We still on the Mai Shiranui topic? Please, drop it, I beg of you. It’s the same circular arguments over and over

The Mai Shiranui debate is just the hit sequel to the Pyra debate. (and like Pyra she will not be in Smash's roster)

Probably more likely the protagonist of the most recent Xenoblade would get in instead.

It will be sad in the future once we look back at the past of Smash Speculation and see how Rex went from a strong contender in the eyes of the fans, only to be the first character in Ultimate to get the Mii Costume excecution. Ouch.

 

[Leotsune]

I'm not sure if this question was already answered but how would feel if a sony rep(Kratos,Sackboy, Aloy etc.) join as the 5th fighter's pass character(I know it's not gonna happen but still I'm just questioning)

Totally down to literally any PS rep, personally Kat is my #1 choice.

play Gravity Rush please.

 

[YsDisciple]

By the divine intervention of the "Voice of Naga"; Tiki, may the "sleeper" pick from the pages of Bandai-Namco history be brought forth! Valkyrie-chaaaaaan!!!!

Spoiler: Valkyrie x FE - Project X Zone 2

 

[Ura]

Sakurai's team chose the spirits first. All Sakurai did was look over them and remove a few. So it's highly doubtful they mean anything. The only ones maybe could be the evolved Spirits, since they're treated as a bit more important, but that's a stretch.

I'm of mind of this as well. The only "strong" deconfirms IMO is the presence of 3rd Party Spirits because they were negotiated for that purpose specifically. 1st party ones, IMO have more leeway because they could have been included and then be picked for the Pass. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Here’s a topic to shift gears.

Is there a franchise that is currently not in Smash that, if left out at the end of DLC, you as a fan would feel that there was a hole in the roster?

I obviously feel that way about Resident Evil (it’s been a classic for 2 decades now!). The characters are famous, gameplay is excellent, and it’s a pillar of excellence for the horror genre, which brings in plenty of content for a stage, spirit battles, and the music has plenty of potential.

With so many genre-defining series in Smash already, and with it being the sole-remaining Top 10 Japanese-created gaming series left currently not in Smash, it would just be like a missed opportunity to truly have the “all-star” feel if there isn’t a playable character.

What do you guys think? Which series would make you feel that way?

Advance Wars. Being the last legacy Nintendo franchise left in Smash, it really hurts when I see such an amazing roster like Ultimate's without AW representation. Even more so given it paved the way for FE's success overseas and it doesn't seem to be appreciated much by Sakurai. Hoping the theory I posted here comes true.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm of mind of this as well. The only "strong" deconfirms IMO is the presence of 3rd Party Spirits because they were negotiated for that purpose specifically. 1st party one, IMO have more leeway because they could have been included and then be picked for the Pass. Hypothetically speaking of course.

Evolved Spirits feel like they're intended for that role only as well, but it's hard to say.

It also is hard to say when he started figuring out DLC. It could be right after he went over all the Spirits, removing some. He literally could've removed some because he wants them for either FP characters or for Spirits tied to them for all we know.

Though after some talk, I have a bit of a better understanding of the Spirits with different names. It's not simply a rename for the character, but they're doing actual different things. Like Tree for Wii Fit Trainer. So if we do have a Spirit that also is a FP, they probably won't get a name change because there's no need to. I mean, maybe the base game one could, but I don't think we'd get something like... eh, I can't think of an example outside of Dixie(Fighter) anymore. Still, it'll be neat to see what happens. He'll probably explain the DLC process, and if there's no Spirits among the FP characters(though I guess it could happen with Echoes or separated ones, if they were decided upon quite a bit later, so the timing makes it far harder to justify worrying about other Spirits, I guess?), he probably has a clear explanation of what time all the planning was done.

 

[KillerCage]

I'm not sure if this question was already answered but how would feel if a sony rep(Kratos,Sackboy, Aloy etc.) join as the 5th fighter's pass character(I know it's not gonna happen but still I'm just questioning)

It's not going to happen, but it would be cool if Sly Cooper joined Smash Bros as a Fighter. I can imagine him using his cane and various gadgets for his moveset.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I really can't understand why Raiden was chosen over Snake (Snake still had a big connection with Sony consoles, despite being in Brawl first, and it's not like one thing should cancel the other in the first place).

Nor why they added Daniel Fortesque (iconic, sure, but kinda obscure for non-Sony fans) and not Crash or Spyro. It's like if Sakurai had added Marth before Link or Banjo before Mario for Smash 64.

Frankly, the dream would be seeing more collabs between Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft's IPs... but that chance comes once in a blue moon.

Personally I'm totally OK with guys like Sir Dan being in, because they feel like they're really going deep with the representation and kept it from being fully a marketing machine. But yeah, Crash and Spyro should have been in.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I really can't understand why Raiden was chosen over Snake (Snake still had a big connection with Sony consoles, despite being in Brawl first, and it's not like one thing should cancel the other in the first place).

Obviously because Smash already had Snake. So what better logical way then going with Metal Gear's other protagonist.

 

[cmbsfm]

I really can't understand why Raiden was chosen over Snake (Snake still had a big connection with Sony consoles, despite being in Brawl first, and it's not like one thing should cancel the other in the first place).

.

Raiden was chosen to promote MGR. The whole game was one big advertisement. They didn’t even put in the real Dante, they put in the reboot one to promote the reboot.

 

[Flyboy]

Obviously because Smash already had Snake. So what better logical way then going with Metal Gear's other protagonist.

The issue with that being that the version of Raiden they picked was from a game that wasn't out yet and they could have easily gone with Naked Snake/Big Boss, who is also a very popular protagonist and the latest mainline MGS game at the time, Peace Walker, featured him. The game was packed with true shill picks.

My friend and I went through and realized that even though the roster had some shining examples of great picks, like Needles Kane, Sir Daniel Fortesque, and Sly Cooper, it also had massive omissions and very weird choices that dragged it down.

If they had had the actual iconic versions of the characters (cough Dante cough), the gaps in the roster had been filled (Crash, Spyro, Lara, Cloud, Alucard, Big Boss etc), and the game was more fun to play it really could've been something. Instead we get the dude from the space sequel to Warhawk, two Cole McGraths, and Zeus.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I thought for the most part the character list was reasonable for a first entry. Second one having even more awesome options would've made sense. I felt what killed it was the "kill with supers", really. That makes it just plain awful to work with for tournaments. It absolutely could've done better if you removed that. The roster wasn't even that lacking overall. A small amount of characters, yes, but it still had a pretty beefy roster full of a decent amount of icons.

Its other downfall was Sony's lack of faith in the dev team. So much so that they even dissolved the division before the game came out.* They even found a basic model for another character they were going to make.

It's a pity, as "Zomg! It's [Iconic character] Vs. [Iconic character]!" would have beaten out "Ew Smash clone!" any day. Even if it was basically just Smash.

*Citation needed. It's something I've heard more than once, but it could still be a rumour.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What I remember about its development is a few things;

-They're a no-name company and it wasn't too easy to get stuff. This isn't surprising. They were in a bad position in this case.
-They had to use Evil Cole if they wanted Cole at all.
-When asking for Cloud, they were told Lightning or nothing. They went with nothing.

If you think about it for companies, with a no-name developer, they'd rather put in their latest version of the character to advertise their own games than give the most iconic version. I mean, they aren't going to trust a no-name. Sakurai actually made a name with Smash 64 itself before even being approached to have Sonic and Snake in Melee. Before Sonic ever had a Nintendo appearance, he was asked by Yuji Naka to be put in. Sakurai had a lot of time to earn that trust. Besides the Kirby games, he made a pretty good crossover that did well enough that people think he can pull it off again. For no-name companies, there's no way to trust them at all. Sony already wouldn't be able to give them much either, and can you blame them? The guys were new. And using your mascots. Trust is earned, not given out on a whim. If they had tried to make something else, like a fun fighting game that was decent first, it'd be less of an issue. There was actual good things, like them having a decent set of characters despite missing some 3rd parties. A lot of it was luck on their end they even got that much.

This is also why I'm not that surprised Spyro and Crash weren't in. These companies wouldn't want their characters tarnished by being in a bad game. Especially a game focused on All-Stars. If it was a racing game, it wouldn't be as big of a deal because it has less of a focus on the All-Star factor in some cases. And sometimes it does focus on that.

I'd sad too, cause the game had potential. I mean, I'd have taken Lightning just to have a FF character in, a franchise that definitely is important to the PlayStation as well. It'd have been great if Crash and Spyro was in there too(though I don't think the Skylanders Spyro version was out yet? If it was, that'd have been fine because it's still freaking Spyro). Likewise, I'm just glad Dante was in there in some way. It's not the best version, but it's still the character nonetheless. I'm happy it even had some good characters on the rosters overall. For a no-name developer, they got some impressive options in the end.

 

[Ura]

It also is hard to say when he started figuring out DLC. It could be right after he went over all the Spirits, removing some. He literally could've removed some because he wants them for either FP characters or for Spirits tied to them for all we know.

TBH, it's this exact reason why i'm holding out hope (foolishly) for Advance Wars DLC. Given it's AT removal (seemingly out of the blue as it was present in both Brawl & Smash 4) and it's Spirts being helluva weird, not reflecting the main characters.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes Max, Sami, and Nell had Spirits that were held off for a potential Challenger Pack (be it Andy or Sami being playable). In that scenario, Andy would use his AW1 artwork for his Fighter Spirit independent from his Primary Spirit that uses his AW2 one. Of course, this only happens with an AW revival. Without it, there's a 0% chance of it happening. I'm well aware of the ramifications here.

 

[Nquoid]

Sakurai definitely likes giving attention to newer games when he does the rosters. With Brawl and 4 having almost half their newcomers list being from games that didn't exist when the previous installment came out (I put Wario and Paulutena on there just because they were pulling from games that didn't exist in the Brawl/Melee days). But he definitely pays more attention to slightly older characters with more proven staying power, or just straight up retro originating characters. So I don 't think it's too much of a stretch to look at older franchises to make some picks, even if we probably literally don't know what games whoever makes Smash 6 would be pulling from.

Melee: Pichu, Roy [2/14]
Brawl: Toon Link, Zero Suit Samus, Lucario, Lucas, Ike, Olimar, Wario* [7/18]
4: Rosalina, Greninja, Lucina, Robin, Corrin, Palutena*, Dark Pit, Wii Fit Trainer, Shulk, Bayonetta [9/21]
Ultimate: Incineroar, Inkling, Joker, Hero* [4/17]

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

TBH, it's this exact reason why i'm holding out hope (foolishly) for Advance Wars DLC. Given it's AT removal (seemingly out of the blue as it was present in both Brawl & Smash 4) and it's Spirts being helluva weird, not reflecting the main characters.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes Max, Sami, and Nell had Spirits that were held off for a potential Challenger Pack (be it Andy or Sami being playable). In that scenario, Andy would use his AW1 artwork for his Fighter Spirit independent from his Primary Spirit that uses his AW2 one. Of course, this only happens with an AW revival. Without it, there's a 0% chance of it happening. I'm well aware of the ramifications here.

Yeah, who knows what'll happen. That said, if neither are playable, I hope we still get some DLC spirits alone.

Hell, I'm hoping for some Spirits/Costumes of some neat Rareware franchises alone, same with other Microsoft stuff. Only things I except is some Halo and Minecraft at best, though. Moreso Minecraft, cause of Verge having way too damn good of a track record to ignore it.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

The issue with that being that the version of Raiden they picked was from a game that wasn't out yet and they could have easily gone with Naked Snake/Big Boss, who is also a very popular protagonist and the latest mainline MGS game, Peace Walker, featured him. The game was packed with true shill picks.

My friend and I went through and realized that even though the roster had some shining examples of great picks, like Needles Kane, Sir Daniel Fortesque, and Sly Cooper, it also had massive omissions and very weird choices that dragged it down.

If they had had the actual iconic versions of the characters (cough Dante cough), the gaps in the roster had been filled (Crash, Spyro, Lara, Cloud, Alucard, Big Boss etc), and the game was more fun to play it really could've been something. Instead we get the dude from the space sequel to Warhawk, two Cole McGraths, and Zeus.

yeah true even though I like psasbr but tbh it's not like the missing ones would fare be better, Crash, Spyro and Lara would get their late 2000s/early 2010 versions to promote the new games that would split the fans into mixed reactions, Square-Enix would force Superbot to used lightning instead of cloud to(once again) promote the sequel Lightning Returns, Konami would probably say no to use big boss in the game since they want Superbot to use Raiden to promote Revengeance, I know you might be see a pattern here(promote a new game) but I feel like psasbr would received even more mixed reactions if the characters were in there by third party publisher demands(and consider 1:dmc Dante was demanded by Capcom is really saying something 2: Sony Didn't really support the development of this game) made the game's character roster concept doomed to fail at least in era it was in(2010 to 2013), honestly if the game was release in the very early days of the ps3 it might be a success

 

[Vycoul]

Just want to say because I'm astonished at the amount of neo-puritanism I'm seeing that I fully support Mai Shiranui.
As someone who doesn't know anything about KoF, I still knew about her. And I had never heard of Terry Mc-Dull or Kyo Prettyboy #16351 before.
I think a side character getting added before a series' main character is incredibly unlikely to happen, but in this case I'd be glad if it did.

Long live fan-service!

 

[Ura]

Yeah, who knows what'll happen. That said, if neither are playable, I hope we still get some DLC spirits alone.

Hell, I'm hoping for some Spirits/Costumes of some neat Rareware franchises alone, same with other Microsoft stuff. Only things I except is some Halo and Minecraft at best, though. Moreso Minecraft, cause of Verge having way too damn good of a track record to ignore it.

Yeah it was very weird to see the likes of Eagle and Olaf being Spirits where as main characters like Max, Sami, and Nell being completely MIA. Especially someone as popular as Sami in Smash speculation. People not familiar with Advance Wars seem to love her and want her as a semi-clone of Snake (myself included). Either way it's helluva fishy and it's pretty hard to write this all off as a coincidence.

I'm hoping for a lot of Rareware fanservice in Banjo's pack as well. Hopefully lots of nods to Banjo characters and classic N64 Rareware games (Perfect Dark, Jet Force Gemini, etc.) I think Steve and Master Chief are likely to be Mii Costumes.

 

[Deleted member]

Just want to say because I'm astonished at the amount of neo-puritanism I'm seeing that I fully support Mai Shiranui.
As someone who doesn't know anything about KoF, I knew her. But I had never heard of Terry before. I think a side character getting added before a series' main character is incredibly unlikely to happen, but in this case I'd be glad if it did.

Long live fan-service!

Agree that people are downplaying a lot her iconicness, but let's not dwell into the topic again just for sanity sake.

 

[Deleted member]

ask around and you'll be hard pressed to find many people who know Mai.

Ask around in Asia, especially Japan or Hong Kong, and plenty of people will know who she is.

Ask around in FGC circles in western countries, and pretty much everyone will know her, as she ranks behind Ryu, tied with Chun Li for 2nd most iconic character in fighting games.

Just cause you don’t know who she is, don’t project outward and assume everyone else thinks just like you. Especially if you’re not gonna back up your claims. I provided sources that linked to numerous articles where she’s labeled as “one of the most iconic girls in video games,” or other similar titles, often compared to the likes of Lara Croft, Chun Li, Samus, etc... Like, Mai is MORE popular in Asia, than Lara is in the West. That should give you a good idea of how big this character is. But just cause it’s not within your sphere of influence, you assume it must be the same everywhere else in the world, and I reiterate, that’s not the case.

I provided links to articles where she’s been given these titles, it’s a given fact that she’s well recognized within the western FGC, we know she pushes a lot of merch and cosplay. What more do you want really? Like, are you gonna argue that Pikachu isn’t the most popular Pokemon because the devs originally intended for Clefairy to be the main Pokemon, despite Pika pushing the most merch? Like, Pikachu became popular the same way Mai did. Just replace “cute” with “sexy.” Pikachu was adopted by fans because he was cute, and took the spotlight, despite devs intentions. Which Pokemon moves the most merch? Which one has the most crossovers and guest appearances? Which SNK character moves the most merch? Which one has the most cosplay? Which one has the most crossovers and guest apoearances?

Mai’s popularity extends beyond SNK and Videogames. Plenty of people like the character and buy her merch, and have never played KoF. Her status as a cultural gaming icon is undeniable. Idk why this is up for debate.

The real point of contention is what Schol brought up. Would she need to be censored? How much? Is it too much? Can something be done? Would it be Japan only? Has the situation at Nintendo changed? These are all far more interesting questions than debating the self-evident.

There are few characters left that could be regarded as massive gaming icons not yet in Smash. Mai is one of them. Doomguy is another. Master Chief, Ryu Hyabusa, Lara Croft... the list grows smaller and smaller when you really stop and asses how significant the character is to gaming culture as a whole. There are very few those left, and all of them seem to have significant obstacles one way or another. I think that’s what makes this conversation interesting.

 

[GoodGrief741]

What I remember about its development is a few things;

-They're a no-name company and it wasn't too easy to get stuff. This isn't surprising. They were in a bad position in this case.
-They had to use Evil Cole if they wanted Cole at all.
-When asking for Cloud, they were told Lightning or nothing. They went with nothing.

If you think about it for companies, with a no-name developer, they'd rather put in their latest version of the character to advertise their own games than give the most iconic version. I mean, they aren't going to trust a no-name. Sakurai actually made a name with Smash 64 itself before even being approached to have Sonic and Snake in Melee. Before Sonic ever had a Nintendo appearance, he was asked by Yuji Naka to be put in. Sakurai had a lot of time to earn that trust. Besides the Kirby games, he made a pretty good crossover that did well enough that people think he can pull it off again. For no-name companies, there's no way to trust them at all. Sony already wouldn't be able to give them much either, and can you blame them? The guys were new. And using your mascots. Trust is earned, not given out on a whim. If they had tried to make something else, like a fun fighting game that was decent first, it'd be less of an issue. There was actual good things, like them having a decent set of characters despite missing some 3rd parties. A lot of it was luck on their end they even got that much.

This is also why I'm not that surprised Spyro and Crash weren't in. These companies wouldn't want their characters tarnished by being in a bad game. Especially a game focused on All-Stars. If it was a racing game, it wouldn't be as big of a deal because it has less of a focus on the All-Star factor in some cases. And sometimes it does focus on that.

I'd sad too, cause the game had potential. I mean, I'd have taken Lightning just to have a FF character in, a franchise that definitely is important to the PlayStation as well. It'd have been great if Crash and Spyro was in there too(though I don't think the Skylanders Spyro version was out yet? If it was, that'd have been fine because it's still freaking Spyro). Likewise, I'm just glad Dante was in there in some way. It's not the best version, but it's still the character nonetheless. I'm happy it even had some good characters on the rosters overall. For a no-name developer, they got some impressive options in the end.

If you think about it though, it actually doesn't make sense. Imagine a new, unproven dev comes knocking at your door asking for a character: who do you give? The rusty but classic character who isn't making you money and can't be harmed by negative association? Or the new character from a game you need to sell?

Like, I get why they did it, but I think it makes more sense to lend your old stuff if you're wary. If the game is trash, and you have Cloud in it, that can't hurt Cloud's image. However if the game is trash, and you have Lightning in it, that could hurt FFXIII's sales.

*sigh* the things companies will do for free advertising.

Ask around in Asia, especially Japan or Hong Kong, and plenty of people will know who she is.

Ask around in FGC circles in western countries, and pretty much everyone will know her, as she ranks behind Ryu, tied with Chun Li for 2nd most iconic character in fighting games.

Just cause you don’t know who she is, don’t project outward and assume everyone else thinks just like you. Especially if you’re not gonna back up your claims. I provided sources that linked to numerous articles where she’s labeled as “one of the most iconic girls in video games,” or other similar titles, often compared to the likes of Lara Croft, Chun Li, Samus, etc... Like, Mai is MORE popular in Asia, than Lara is in the West. That should give you a good idea of how big this character is. But just cause it’s not within your sphere of influence, you assume it must be the same everywhere else in the world, and I reiterate, that’s not the case.

I provided links to articles where she’s been given these titles, it’s a given fact that she’s well recognized within the western FGC, we know she pushes a lot of merch and cosplay. What more do you want really? Like, are you gonna argue that Pikachu isn’t the most popular Pokemon because the devs originally intended for Clefairy to be the main Pokemon, despite Pika pushing the most merch? Like, Pikachu became popular the same way Mai did. Just replace “cute” with “sexy.” Pikachu was adopted by fans because he was cute, and took the spotlight, despite devs intentions. Which Pokemon moves the most merch? Which one has the most crossovers and guest appearances? Which SNK character moves the most merch? Which one has the most cosplay? Which one has the most crossovers and guest apoearances?

Mai’s popularity extends beyond SNK and Videogames. Plenty of people like the character and buy her merch, and have never played KoF. Her status as a cultural gaming icon is undeniable. Idk why this is up for debate.

The real point of contention is what Schol brought up. Would she need to be censored? How much? Is it too much? Can something be done? Would it be Japan only? Has the situation at Nintendo changed? These are all far more interesting questions than debating the self-evident.

There are few characters left that could be regarded as massive gaming icons not yet in Smash. Mai is one of them. Doomguy is another. Master Chief, Ryu Hyabusa, Lara Croft... the list grows smaller and smaller when you really stop and ***** how significant the character is to gaming culture as a whole. There are very few those left, and all of them seem to have significant obstacles one way or another. I think that’s what makes this conversation interesting.

The fact that you think Mai Shiranui is in any way comparable to Master Chief means there's no way I can talk sense into you. This conversation is over.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

But why would they pick Mai Shiranui over Terry, Kyo or even Iori?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If you think about it though, it actually doesn't make sense. Imagine a new, unproven dev comes knocking at your door asking for a character: who do you give? The rusty but classic character who isn't making you money and can't be harmed by negative association? Or the new character from a game you need to sell?

Like, I get why they did it, but I think it makes more sense to lend your old stuff if you're wary. If the game is trash, and you have Cloud in it, that can't hurt Cloud's image. However if the game is trash, and you have Lightning in it, that could hurt FFXIII's sales.

*sigh* the things companies will do for free advertising.

...It makes more sense to give the character that's new and will give you faster advertising. It's not even a contest for companies. Pushing their latest product is a key thing for their company to keep going. That's how business work. Product is meant to come first. If they make exceptions, it's for a good reason. A no-name developer is not a good reason. Also, Cloud is in games they're releasing, but not in the game they wanted advertised at this time. Timing made Lightning their most relevant choice. Besides that, the fact we got the alternate Dante design, the less liked one, implies they really didn't want to use the most iconic version because of a lack of faith. If it wasn't obvious advertising instead. Or maybe some of both. You make it sound like advertising isn't the most common for companies. Even The Pokemon Company does it for Pokeballs/Trophies/Stickers/Spirits(surprisingly this isn't common for playable ones though).

But why would they pick Mai Shiranui over Terry, Kyo or even Iori?

They wouldn't. The mascots come first in cases like these. Mai is just a lesser character for them. Sakurai also has to deal with a really bad design that needs serious toning down. Besides not being the mascot, he'd have to be able to tone her down with their permission, which is extremely unlikely.

 

[Vycoul]

Sakurai also has to deal with a really bad design that needs serious toning down.

I find her design excellent.
Really though, I'm seeing more hostility than usual directed at this unlikely character suggestion, and I can't help but think it's because of her sexy design. And I mean outside of the "they would have to tone her down too much, it's not going to happen" arguments.
A fair number of people seem to dislike the character simply because she's dressed in a skimpy outfit I find that a little bothersome.

 

[Nquoid]

Just want to say because I'm astonished at the amount of neo-puritanism I'm seeing that I fully support Mai Shiranui.
As someone who doesn't know anything about KoF, I still knew about her. And I had never heard of Terry Mc-Dull or Kyo Prettyboy #16351 before.
I think a side character getting added before a series' main character is incredibly unlikely to happen, but in this case I'd be glad if it did.

Long live fan-service!

Calling people out on being prudes for not thinking that Mai is a good fit for Smash is not an argument, and a massive assumption on your part.

Ask around in Asia, especially Japan or Hong Kong, and plenty of people will know who she is.

Ask around in FGC circles in western countries, and pretty much everyone will know her, as she ranks behind Ryu, tied with Chun Li for 2nd most iconic character in fighting games.

Just cause you don’t know who she is, don’t project outward and assume everyone else thinks just like you. Especially if you’re not gonna back up your claims. I provided sources that linked to numerous articles where she’s labeled as “one of the most iconic girls in video games,” or other similar titles, often compared to the likes of Lara Croft, Chun Li, Samus, etc... Like, Mai is MORE popular in Asia, than Lara is in the West. That should give you a good idea of how big this character is. But just cause it’s not within your sphere of influence, you assume it must be the same everywhere else in the world, and I reiterate, that’s not the case.

I provided links to articles where she’s been given these titles, it’s a given fact that she’s well recognized within the western FGC, we know she pushes a lot of merch and cosplay. What more do you want really? Like, are you gonna argue that Pikachu isn’t the most popular Pokemon because the devs originally intended for Clefairy to be the main Pokemon, despite Pika pushing the most merch? Like, Pikachu became popular the same way Mai did. Just replace “cute” with “sexy.” Pikachu was adopted by fans because he was cute, and took the spotlight, despite devs intentions. Which Pokemon moves the most merch? Which one has the most crossovers and guest appearances? Which SNK character moves the most merch? Which one has the most cosplay? Which one has the most crossovers and guest apoearances?

Mai’s popularity extends beyond SNK and Videogames. Plenty of people like the character and buy her merch, and have never played KoF. Her status as a cultural gaming icon is undeniable. Idk why this is up for debate.

The real point of contention is what Schol brought up. Would she need to be censored? How much? Is it too much? Can something be done? Would it be Japan only? Has the situation at Nintendo changed? These are all far more interesting questions than debating the self-evident.

There are few characters left that could be regarded as massive gaming icons not yet in Smash. Mai is one of them. Doomguy is another. Master Chief, Ryu Hyabusa, Lara Croft... the list grows smaller and smaller when you really stop and ***** how significant the character is to gaming culture as a whole. There are very few those left, and all of them seem to have significant obstacles one way or another. I think that’s what makes this conversation interesting.

Google Trends backs up both points. Mai is massive in China and SE Asia but Chun-Li is clearly a bigger and more iconic when accounting most of the world. But since China is such a hard market for any non Chinese company to crack, I do doubt a pick built to solely to cater to a country where Nintendo wouldn't even see the full benefit of profit because Tencent as well as SNK would almost certainly take a cut once the Switch is out there.

And that's my last piece on Mai.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I find her design excellent.
Really though, I'm seeing more hostility than usual directed at this character suggestion, and I can't help but think it's because of her sexy design. I find that quite bothersome.

I actually love the character. Her design is way too inappropriate for Smash and needs toning down to fit the e10+ rating however. Even the worst characters were far less revealing. Tharja, who's not even remotely as bad, was cut due to her design, and she was just a trophy. Mai needs a new outfit and less bounce to stand a chance, and unless that's something SNK will allow, she's got no real chance.

Honestly, I've seen more proper clothing she could have but still keep some of the characterization. But the bounce would need to go anyway to keep it far more appropriate. Don't confuse hatred with understanding an issue a character has. If they can't actually represent the character's personality decently well, or use an official design that still fits her, then there's an issue with using her. Besides her obviously losing out to the main mascots, anyway, of the franchise. But that's just an obvious thing that people will look at it anyway. Expecting the main characters or mascots first is... pretty reasonable, as Smash has consistently done that. Main character is not necessarily main protagonist, but an important character to the main story as is, just to clarify.

 

[Deleted member]

If you think about it though, it actually doesn't make sense. Imagine a new, unproven dev comes knocking at your door asking for a character: who do you give? The rusty but classic character who isn't making you money and can't be harmed by negative association? Or the new character from a game you need to sell?

Like, I get why they did it, but I think it makes more sense to lend your old stuff if you're wary. If the game is trash, and you have Cloud in it, that can't hurt Cloud's image. However if the game is trash, and you have Lightning in it, that could hurt FFXIII's sales.

*sigh* the things companies will do for free advertising.


The fact that you think Mai Shiranui is in any way comparable to Master Chief means there's no way I can talk sense into you. This conversation is over.

You have no right to act so snarky when you think that Xbox and Halo even matter in Japan, or Asia. Where the best selling game in the franchise (Halo 3 at 12 million) barely sold over 130,000 copies in Japan.

Mai is significantly more popular in Asia than Chief is, yes, and Doomguy. By a long shot.

But why would they pick Mai Shiranui over Terry, Kyo or even Iori?

Because as had been said multiple times now, Mai is SNK’s most popular character, and company mascot.

... Mai is just a lesser character for them.

Citation needed. All evidence points to the contrary when Mai is often picked first to appear in all crossovers.

Sakurai also has to deal with a really bad design that needs serious toning down.

Considering how popular the character is BECAUSE of her design, I’m gonna go ahead that it’s just your opinion the design is “bad.”

See, don’t let your puritanism cloud your judgement over what is good or not, or how good a character’s chances are. This is literally the Bayonetta argument all over again.

Besides not being the mascot, he'd have to be able to tone her down with their permission, which is extremely unlikely.

She is the mascot, and had been toned down for western appearances before. And that’s assuming she’d need anything else beyond a covered up cleavage and wider underwear. You look at Lyn, and both her and Mai show equal amounts of leg.

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

now for my own answer of my first question(a sony rep being the 5th fighters pass character)
Answer: I be down Jak and Daxter/Ratchet and Clank being in smash bros ultimate

 

[Vycoul]

Calling people out on being prudes for not thinking that Mai is a good fit for Smash is not an argument, and a massive assumption on your part.

That particular post was just me saying that I like the idea of Mai being in Smash. I've made no attempt to create an argument for her inclusion because I don't think a very good one can be made.
As for the prude part; A number of posts have smacked of "Pyra-shaming" as one poster so eloquently put it.

Again, I think her design is clearly too revealing for Smash, but some posts have made it rather apparent that they dislike the character because of her provocative nature. They are free to think whatever they wish, but I find that sentiment very unfortunate.