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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Ramen Tengoku

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Characters already in the game?

  1. Min Min
  2. Any of the current Rhythm Heaven spirits
  3. Shovel Knight
  4. Bandana Waddle Dee
  5. Elma
  6. Jill
 

Mr. Robotto

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No, Terry was not a popular character. You can look at any poll around the time and note that Terry wouldn't be on it. On the Reddit poll, which was one of the largest polls ever done with 6500 votes, Terry got exactly one vote. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o-l2YWOx5yNDw6c-sl3_sZAsOoFgh-piXJa1iCyvQ48/edit#gid=0
I've noticed there is a revision mentality in Smash that once it's in Smash, it must be justified as popular. If Terry was never added, then no one would say he was popular or his games influential. Let's call a Spade a Spade.

My point with Dragon Quest was to note it's more than it's (Japanese) popularity. My point was the ballot isn't having a noticeable effect on the DLC based on who's getting added (with three of them existing after the ballot). I think that holds up.
Terry isn't popular from a typical Smash fan's point of view, but he is an absolute staple in the FGC. Everyone knows his name and legacy over there, just look at reactions towards Geese's inclusion in Tekken 7 for example. Just because something isn't popular within this community doesn't mean it's not popular in other ones, and Sakurai definitely wants to create a game where literally everyone can see characters they recognize. Let's just say it also boosts sales the more accessible you make a game towards other communities.
I do believe the ballot had a say to some extent to please fans (Banjo&Kazooie was a big ballot name in the West while Hero was one of the most requested in Japan). But I'm pretty sure Fighter Pass Season 1's main intention was to emphasize on that "EVERYONE IS HERE" slogan to outsiders by including either characters that are popular right now or big name legacy characters. As for what the emphasis on this Season Pack is, we literally have no idea yet.
 
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RouffWestie

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That's very curious.

TIME FOR A NEW GAME!

What would be your DLC pass of revision characters?

1- Min Min
2- Bomberman
3- Waluigi
4- Isaac
5- Rayman
6- Jill Valentine
  1. Spring Man
  2. Tom Nook
  3. Johnathon & Charlotte
  4. Shadow
  5. Tails, because Yes, I would add 2 Sonic reps with 50 songs and a stage each
  6. Waluigi
 
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because Yes, I would add 2 Sonic reps with 50 songs and a stage each
Lol, wouldn't mind It if that happened.

Sonic has a lot of cool and fun characters to have in fighting games and a lot of great music.

If I had to choose two characters I would go with Robotnik and Tails or Blaze.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Are you seriously comparing a sprite-based game with a game that uses 3-D models from a technical standpoint?
No, I'm using it as an example of how a transforming character could work without forcing it to be a part of a character change Special Attack. Perhaps using it to the same degree as Double does would jack up load times since you would have to load a lot of modles, but having a character constantly model swapping between a few forms isn't exactly unfeasible in a 3D game. Heck, I'd wager this is exactly what Mr. Game & Watch does with a ton of his moves, and Corrin probably does this with his Counter Surge attack as well. The Pokémon Trainer shows that they can load 3 entire characters without issue. With those three in the game, I fail to see how the fact that the game is 3D would stop this kind of design idea.
 
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Michael the Spikester

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Hard to believe we're only little over an month away from the ARMS reveal and potentially FP7. That's assuming it though its not June 18th instead.
 

SNEKeater

Smash Master
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No, Terry was not a popular character. You can look at any poll around the time and note that Terry wouldn't be on it. On the Reddit poll, which was one of the largest polls ever done with 6500 votes, Terry got exactly one vote. Source: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1o-l2YWOx5yNDw6c-sl3_sZAsOoFgh-piXJa1iCyvQ48/edit#gid=0
I've noticed there is a revision mentality in Smash that once it's in Smash, it must be justified as popular. If Terry was never added, then no one would say he was popular or his games influential. Let's call a Spade a Spade.

My point with Dragon Quest was to note it's more than it's (Japanese) popularity. My point was the ballot isn't having a noticeable effect on the DLC based on who's getting added (with three of them existing after the ballot). I think that holds up.
As Mr. Robotto said, not being a popular name in the Smash community doesn't mean a character isn't popular. I assume that when you're talking about Terry not being popular, you're talking from the Smash community viewpoint before his inclusion, because if that's not the case, well, I don't think discussing this will lead us nowhere.
It's not revision mentality. I didn't said Terry was a popular request among Smash fans before he was added, but it isn't revisionism to say he was popular outside Smash or that his games were influential, because that's just the truth, unless someone believes that the only existing game in the world is Smash Bros.
Also, it's just people learning things. People who didn't know about him before being revealed didn't know the extent of SNK's legacy, now they are aware, and therefore, you read more people talking about Terry and SNK in this community now that he's in. That's it. You may feel people has been hypocrite and acting like they knew Terry since always or that they were aware of SNK merits, but it's not weird if you think that Terry's inclusion attracted a lot of curious people to learn more about him and his games., and that will generate more discussions and talk about SNK.

If FP7 was, idk, Lara Croft or Crash Bandicoot, their inclusion will draw more eyes to their games even if they're known by all Smash fans, because knowing a game doesn't mean you have actually played it. So, Lara getting in would make more Smash players try the Tomb Raider series, and then they would start talking more about it. Just like happened with Joker, with Hero, with Banjo, with Terry, and yes, even Byleth. And it will happen again if we get Crash, Ryu Hayabusa, Dante, or Professor Layton, to mention a few names.

Honestly, I feel that most of times people uses the "revisionism" thing as an excuse of some sort.

About Dragon Quest, if Sakurai and Nintendo could have included DQ before they would have done it. Including Luminary and promoting DQXI S, which was already been promoted before Hero's reveal, it just makes sense when Dragon Quest has really strong ties to Nintendo (a thing that people always brings up when it's related to their favorite character, but then most of them neglects it when it comes to DQ) and Dragon Quest's popularity in Japan. So it was a no brainer move for Nintendo and Square. Not like Nintendo was being forced to promote DQXI, that's for sure.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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About Dragon Quest, if Sakurai and Nintendo could have included DQ before they would have done it. Including Luminary and promoting DQXI S, which was already been promoted before Hero's reveal, it's just makes sense when Dragon Quest has really strong ties to Nintendo (a thing that people always brings up when it's related to their favorite character, but then most of them neglects it when it comes to DQ) and Dragon Quest's popularity in Japan. So it was a no brainer move for Nintendo and Square. Not like Nintendo was being forced to promote DQXI, that's for sure.
I also keep hearing that Hero was originally intended (or perhaps considered is the better word) for base game, but was moved to DLC because the composer was going to take a huge cut, and eating that kind of cost is more feasible for DLC than base game. I don't know the validity of this claim, however.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I also keep hearing that Hero was originally intended (or perhaps considered is the better word) for base game, but was moved to DLC because the composer was going to take a huge cut, and eating that kind of cost is more feasible for DLC than base game. I don't know the validity of this claim, however.
Sakurai outright confirmed it himself on a DQXIS stream
 

Garteam

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I would say there is a degree of revisionism in the Smash Community, but it's more so to pop up our own egos by pretending we predicted certain things that we really never did.

"Geno or Sora are going to be the second Square rep" becomes "Everyone should've seen Dragon Quest coming. It was too obvious."

"SNK's too small to get a playable character and, even we do get one, it's going to Nakoruru because she's more interesting than Terry" becomes "Terry was inevitable, everyone should've predicted him."

"Fighter #5 is going to be a third party, maybe we'll get Edelgard if the post-Fighter's Pass characters come from Nintendo" becomes "Everyone was predicting Byleth, none of the House leaders stood a chance".

That's not to say the characters in Fighter's Pass #1 don't make a lot of sense, but hindsight is 20/20. Prior to their reveals, very few people were expecting these individual characters and almost no one was predicting this set as the first Fighter's Pass.
 

DarthEnderX

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People shouldn't even be taking the NYC reactions seriously to begin with, especially since a majority of the people who attend those events are the "so diehard it's kinda scary" fans who are probably users on this very site.
That sounds like the exact reason to take it seriously.

If the diehard fans don't even give a **** about a character, you really think the casual response is going to be any more enthusiastic?
 

osby

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That sounds like the exact reason to take it seriously.

If the diehard fans don't even give a **** about a character, you really think the casual response is going to be any more enthusiastic?
Yes. Just compare the reactions to Isabelle among casual and hardcore fans.
 

DarthEnderX

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If I were to choose characters who are in the game in a way I don't prefer:
Well, there are several characters in the game as ATs or Spirits that I think should be upgraded to Echoes, but I'm not going to waste FP slots on them. So...

Kunio/Riki [River City Ransom]
Zero [Mega Man]
Raiden [Metal Gear]
Alucard [Castlevania]
Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
King Hippo [Punch-Out]
 
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Cutie Gwen

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User was warned for this post
Oh ok. I guess I just didn't remember.

I guess that makes Hero is the only 100% guaranteed cut since he can't be a part of the base roster until that situation changes. Bet'cha he'll still be DLC though.
Luckily the facist prick's gonna die any year now, with his music rights being speculated to be inherented by someone who DOESN'T get anal as **** about music
 

Michael the Spikester

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A reminder that Base or DLC never ends on an good note. I suspect 81 will be an character that doesn't contain too much hype.
 

DarthEnderX

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Yes. Just compare the reactions to Isabelle among casual and hardcore fans.
I guess I should, since you clearly didn't, and just handpicked a couple videos of people breaking into tears about Isabelle and labeled that "the casual response" in your head.
 

Door Key Pig

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Sakurai outright confirmed it himself on a DQXIS stream
So the idea that every roster character on the base game's 2015 project plan going on to be in the game is bull?
Also Isabelle was 100% valid a inclusion and I will die on that hill.
 
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Mr. Robotto

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Luckily the facist prick's gonna die any year now, with his music rights being speculated to be inherented by someone who DOESN'T get anal as **** about music
Good thing his heir (Hayato Matsuo) is pro-orchestra over MIDI. He's also not a huge prick. He's the composer of the amazing soundtracks of Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue and FFXII.
Though I have no clue as to how the rights of Sugiyama's own music would work after his death, would the rights pass down to his family? to Hayato Matsuo? Would Square Enix 100% fully own them? Only time will tell I guess...
 
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Good thing his heir (Hayato Matsuo) is pro-orchestra over MIDI. He's also not a huge prick. He's the composer of the amazing soundtracks of Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue and FFXII.
Though I have no clue as to how the rights of Sugiyama's own music would work after his death, would the rights pass down to his family? to Hayato Matsuo? Would Square Enix 100% fully own them? Only time will tell I guess...
Your post made me remember that I still need to try Shenmue 3 or the PS4 ports of the original two games.

Heard the Shenmue games are really good although also kinda odd with the controls.

But I still feel I should play them before judging
 

pupNapoleon

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Your post made me remember that I still need to try Shenmue 3 or the PS4 ports of the original two games.

Heard the Shenmue games are really good although also kinda odd with the controls.

But I still feel I should play them before judging
That, and also I have recently found a desire to play Panzer Dragoon.

It's crazy how I can think of myself as such a huge gamer, and continually find huge deficits and blind spots.

Then again it's not as if gaming libraries are a real thing (yeah, Gamefly- you absolutely don't count, you rip off).
 

osby

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I guess I should, since you clearly didn't, and just handpicked a couple videos of people breaking into tears about Isabelle and labeled that "the casual response" in your head.
Can you show empirical proof that Isabelle was received negatively among people who play Smash casually?

Otherwise, you just handpicked a couple of videos of people ******** about Isabelle and labeled that "the casual response" in your head.
 

Door Key Pig

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So there were supposed to be 8 non-echo newcomers in the base roster, with four unique DLC newcomers just like Smash 4? Did we only get six slots for FP2 because they moved PP and Hero to DLC and they simply wanted to double down the existing DLC, making that movement a good thing?
 

Cutie Gwen

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So there were supposed to be 8 non-echo newcomers in the base roster, with four unique DLC newcomers just like Smash 4? Did we only get six slots for FP2 because they moved PP and Hero to DLC and they simply wanted to double down the existing DLC, making that movement a good thing?
Where the hell did you get the other 6 from? Plant was seperate from the pass and Hero was always on it since the pass' conception
 

DarthEnderX

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Can you show empirical proof that Isabelle was received negatively among people who play Smash casually?

Otherwise, you just handpicked a couple of videos of people ******** about Isabelle and labeled that "the casual response" in your head.
That's true. But you're the one who first claimed what the casual response was, without any empirical proof. So it's not really on me to disprove your proofless statement.
 
D

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That's true. But you're the one who first claimed what the casual response was, without any empirical proof. So it's not really on me to disprove your proofless statement.
My IRL friends play Smash casually and they found Isabelle's inclussion nice.

There, a fair reason to consider the possibility of many casual players not disliking Isabelle.
 

ceterisparibus

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Terry isn't popular from a typical Smash fan's point of view, but he is an absolute staple in the FGC. Everyone knows his name and legacy over there, just look at reactions towards Geese's inclusion in Tekken 7 for example. Just because something isn't popular within this community doesn't mean it's not popular in other ones, and Sakurai definitely wants to create a game where literally everyone can see characters they recognize. Let's just say it also boosts sales the more accessible you make a game towards other communities.
I do believe the ballot had a say to some extent to please fans (Banjo&Kazooie was a big ballot name in the West while Hero was one of the most requested in Japan). But I'm pretty sure Fighter Pass Season 1's main intention was to emphasize on that "EVERYONE IS HERE" slogan to outsiders by including either characters that are popular right now or big name legacy characters. As for what the emphasis on this Season Pack is, we literally have no idea yet.
I mean to be fair I'm sure SNK isn't a name that has created waves for a very long time, and anyone slightly invested in the FGC would definitely have a decent knowledge of games in general so Terry might not necessarily be "iconic"?
I don't think every newcomer to smash needs to be genre-shattering (which is why i mellowed out on Terry), but the fact that SNK just opened out their entire catalogue to Nintendo just tells me that their IP isn't that expensive to begin with, unless......Cloud Strife or DQ. Also the fact that Terry more or less represented the entire company rather than a single game.
 

Mr. Robotto

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Your post made me remember that I still need to try Shenmue 3 or the PS4 ports of the original two games.

Heard the Shenmue games are really good although also kinda odd with the controls.

But I still feel I should play them before judging
Shenmue feels a bit dated nowadays, though you should definitely get around to playing it! The game was a huge achievement for Sega, especially graphics-wise. I'd say if you like the Yakuza series, then it's definitely worth playing. It's what inspired it after all. Heck, Shenmue is basically Yakuza but with an in-game clock.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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So there were supposed to be 8 non-echo newcomers in the base roster, with four unique DLC newcomers just like Smash 4? Did we only get six slots for FP2 because they moved PP and Hero to DLC and they simply wanted to double down the existing DLC, making that movement a good thing?
I think the more likely situation was:
Considered (to the point where negotiations were made): :ulthero:
Planned for base: :ultinkling::ultridley::ultsimon::ultkrool::ultisabelle:[A Gen 7 Pokémon]:ultpiranha:
Moved to DLC: :ultpiranha:
DLC: :ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ult_terry::ultbyleth:[ARMS][Whoever the heck else]

My thinking for this was that Pirhana Plant was a known quantity while Palutena's Guidance lines were being recorded, but Hero was not.

Where the hell did you get the other 6 from? Plant was seperate from the pass and Hero was always on it since the pass' conception
The other 6 base roster characters. I think he was assuming that Hero and Piranha Plant's situations were the same.
 

Door Key Pig

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Where the hell did you get the other 6 from? Plant was seperate from the pass and Hero was always on it since the pass' conception
The idea if we only got specifically six fighters for the second wave of DLC because that was exactly how many fighters we got in the first wave of DLC and they wanted to double down on that.
 
D

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Shenmue feels a bit dated nowadays, though you should definitely get around to playing it! The game was a huge achievement for Sega, especially graphics-wise. I'd say if you like the Yakuza series, then it's definitely worth playing. It's what inspired it after all. Heck, Shenmue is basically Yakuza but with an in-game clock.
I will try to start with the PS4 ports of the first two games then!

I heard they added an official spanish translation to those and that is a big deal for me when It comes to story-heavy games!
 

Megadoomer

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A reminder that Base or DLC never ends on an good note. I suspect 81 will be an character that doesn't contain too much hype.
"Never" seems like a pretty strong word for something so subjective; Bayonetta's inclusion was extremely exciting for me.
 
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"Never" seems like a pretty strong word for something so subjective; Bayonetta's inclusion was extremely exciting for me.
Yeah, I was also excited for Bayonetta since she kinda was the second SEGA-owned character to be playable in Smash.

And It could have opened the gate to seeing even more SEGA content in Ultimate (which I really welcomed, although hopefully we get some more Mii costumes and some Spirit events).
 

YoshiandToad

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Play and have fun!

My thoughts were that it was FP2, the idea is that revision is that its Nintendo's chance to fix fan complaints from the base game.
Ah, okay. Two options from me; the financial side(no extra money need change hands as all first party):
  1. Springman (Springtron alt)
  2. Captain Toad (Toadette alt)
  3. Tom Nook
  4. Dixie Kong
  5. Akira Howard (male and female alts)
  6. Rex & Pyra
All characters in the million+ copies selling Switch titles.

Alternatively balls to the wall personal bias version:
  1. Captain Toad (Toadette alt)
  2. Dixie Kong
  3. Meowth (Aloan and Galar alts also. Galar's fuzz is just fur so the hitboxes are the same)
  4. Bomberman
  5. Tails
  6. Chris Redfield
 

Cosmic77

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I never really cared for Bayo, and her timing just made everything worse. Things worked out well in the end, but Nintendo really shouldn't have taken Smash 4's final character as an opportunity to promote a third-party franchise they were funding at the same time a special ballot was being held.

Probably would've been best if they saved her for Ultimate.
 
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