Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Actually how tall is Twintelle compared to Springman anyway? I never thought to compare heights?

She's much taller than he is.

EDIT: Tried to look up a picture for comparison...What has been seen cannot be unseen.

 

[7NATOR]

She's much taller than he is.

Is that because of poses or actual height. If it's poses, I don't know how much it matters to this alt situation. Springman, Ribbion girl, Min-Min, and Ninjara all have different poses. I Believe Ninjara is really hunched back for example

For actual height, for one, how close are the other 4 characters in height, and another is that considering Smash changes the heights of characters sometimes from their original appearance, this might not be killing blow

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

If Twintelle and her hair can somehow work as an identical alt of Spring Man, then I'd love to hear Sakurai explain how Isabelle couldn't work as an Echo let alone an alt of Villager.

Honestly I’ll bet the reason why Isabelle isn’t an echo doesn’t have to do anything with moveset or proportions.

Isabelle is a unique character and gets top billing because she the biggest and most marketable character to come out of Nintendo in the past 20 years.

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Honestly I’ll bet the reason why Isabelle isn’t an echo doesn’t have to do anything with moveset or proportions.

Isabelle is a unique character and gets top billing because she the biggest and most marketable character to come out of Nintendo in the past 20 years.

This, obviously PR wouldn't say "she isnt an Echo cause she is too famous" and deminish the rest of the echo fighters, it is easier to just say proportions were difficult to work around.

 

[Ben Holt]

Honestly I’ll bet the reason why Isabelle isn’t an echo doesn’t have to do anything with moveset or proportions.

Isabelle is a unique character and gets top billing because she the biggest and most marketable character to come out of Nintendo in the past 20 years.

I would argue that Isabelle was more of a flavor of the month, since she was the current face of Animal Crossing with New Leaf being the most recent game at the time.
Tom Nook is arguably the most popular Animal.

 

[Will]

I would argue that Isabelle was more of a flavor of the month, since she was the current face of Animal Crossing with New Leaf being the most recent game at the time.
Tom Nook is arguably the most popular Animal.

Based on how depraved the internet is, I'd still give the popularity points to Isabelle. For better or worse.

Though, Isabelle not being an Echo probably isn't due to her popularity. Through that logic, Sakurai doesn't care about Dark Samus, Daisy, Chrom, or Ken enough to make them non-Echoes. Isabelle is just the Dr. Mario to Villager's Mario or the Falco to Villager's Fox IMO.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly I’ll bet the reason why Isabelle isn’t an echo doesn’t have to do anything with moveset or proportions.

Isabelle is a unique character and gets top billing because she the biggest and most marketable character to come out of Nintendo in the past 20 years.

I don't disagree.

Still, it would raise questions if a woman with technically four arms, two of which is attached to her head, can work as an alt of a guy with two. Meanwhile, Isabelle needs to be a separate character because her limbs are slightly less stubby.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Is that because of poses or actual height. If it's poses, I don't know how much it matters to this alt situation. Springman, Ribbion girl, Min-Min, and Ninjara all have different poses. I Believe Ninjara is really hunched back for example

For actual height, for one, how close are the other 4 characters in height, and another is that considering Smash changes the heights of characters sometimes from their original appearance, this might not be killing blow

Well apparently her long legs don't make her as tall as I though they did. Canonically, she's an inch shorter than Spring Man (and probably wears 1'' high heels).

Spring Man is 5' 11''.
Ribbon Girl is 5' 6''.
Ninjara is 5' 10''.
Min Min 5' 5''.

So, not that close. I think most people perceive them to be the same height so I suppose you could fudge it. Still not sure how well you could force Twintelle into Spring Man's mold though.

EDIT: Thinking about it, Spring Man is surprisingly tall, and Ribbon Girl is surprisingly short. You'd think Spring Man would be more average, and Ribbon Girl the same size as him.

 

[toonito]

Regarding the ARMS discussion I think FP6 will be Spring Man alone or Spring Man...but Wait! There's More! (Ribbon Girl as an echo or Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min alts)

basically either way I think Spring Man's involved...i'd be surprised if he was left out somehow

 

[Garteam]

I Don't want to ask, but I'm gonna do it anyway

How come when suggesting the idea of Alts with Springman, Ribbon Girl, Min-Min, and Ninjara, Twintelle is left out of it. She's also a spirit along with these 4 and has huge fanbase. She may fight with her hair, but I Don't think the Height difference makes that much of a difference. I don't think it matters that much in the actual game. She has her Arms folded most of the time so her Hair might as well be her actual Arms

Plus i know my friend and other people are gonna accuse Sakurai of being racist because she got left out. It would be biggest missed opportunity to leave her out

The reason Twintelle would be left out as a Springman skin isn't because she uses her hair as arms, but instead because the options to address Twintelle's hair are infeasible for a skin.

Using the same animations as Spring Man (while keeping her arms folded and using her hair in place of where Spring Man uses his arms) would change how high she punches relative to the rest of the alts. Even if she's the same height as Spring Man (which isn't unheard of, Female Robin was boosted to her male variants height despite being far shorter in Awakening), the fact she's punching from her head is still gonna cause a big difference in where the gloves will land in the animation. Either you have animations that are nowhere close to where the hitboxes are (an obvious issue from a gameplay perspective) or you change the hitboxs to better match her animations (which creates a difference in gameplay between skins. A big no-no in Smash's design philosophy).

Alternatively, you could reanimate her so her punches line up where Spring Man's would. However, not only would this likely look awkward (Twintelle would basically have to put her head down to attack), but it would likely shift her hurtbox and create a gameplay difference between Spring Man's costumes.

 

[Will]

So, not that close. I think most people perceive them to be the same height so I suppose you could fudge it. Still not sure how well you could force Twintelle into Spring Man's mold though.

Height differences don't matter much, Sakruai makes 'em however size he wants.

 

[Perkilator]

Regarding the ARMS discussion I think FP6 will be Spring Man alone or Spring Man...but Wait! There's More! (Ribbon Girl as an echo or Spring Man w/ Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min alts)

basically either way I think Spring Man's involved...i'd be surprised if he was left out somehow

See this pic? This is how I feel about the whole idea of alts for FP6.

Only 1 more month so this argument can take a hike.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

See this pic? This is how I feel about the whole idea of alts for FP6.

Only 1 more month so this argument can take a hike.

Make that one month and 10 days maybe 20 if it happens on the 18th instead of the 11th.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The reason Twintelle would be left out as a Springman skin isn't because she uses her hair as arms, but instead because the options to address Twintelle's hair are infeasible for a skin.

Using the same animations as Spring Man (while keeping her arms folded and using her hair in place of where Spring Man uses his arms) would change how high she punches relative to the rest of the alts. Even if she's the same height as Spring Man (which isn't unheard of, Female Robin was boosted to her male variants height despite being far shorter in Awakening), the fact she's punching from her head is still gonna cause a big difference in where the gloves will land in the animation. Either you have animations that are nowhere close to where the hitboxes are (an obvious issue from a gameplay perspective) or you change the hitboxs to better match her animations (which creates a difference in gameplay between skins. A big no-no in Smash's design philosophy).

Alternatively, you could reanimate her so her punches line up where Spring Man's would. However, not only would this likely look awkward (Twintelle would basically have to put her head down to attack), but it would likely shift her hurtbox and create a gameplay difference between Spring Man's costumes.

Judging from what I've seen in model swaps, the model stretches to fit the animation. The animation wouldn't be off so much as it wouldn't look right. Even if they polished it up to remove the warping and clipping (which they obviously would), it wouldn't look right for her to lean into punches the same way another character would. All the animations would have to be at least tweaked, and at that point you might as well call her an Echo Fighter. This is probably why Isabelle was made into her own character rather than an Echo Fighter; her arms are higher on her body than the Villager's are.

 

[7NATOR]

In all honesty though, I don't think they are gonna do Alts. I think we might actually have a Mii Fighter Sort of Situation with the Arms characters, if it's more than 1, where you can customize the ARMS Character and their Arms.

Alternatively, the ARMS Character could introduce the idea of bonus fighters in Fighter Pass. I've been thinking we might get Bonus Fighters due to rumors I've heard from people

 

[TheCJBrine]

Hell, Sakurai once said that he didn't include Waluigi because the demand for him is not "genuine".

Source? I haven’t seen this.

edit: nevermind it’s false yay.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Source? I haven’t seen this.

I'd like to see this too. I'm pretty sure everyone would know if someone in charge said "you don't really want [x character], you just think he's a funny meme." 'cuz that's functions vs. functions level stuff.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In all honesty though, I don't think they are gonna do Alts. I think we might actually have a Mii Fighter Sort of Situation with the Arms characters, if it's more than 1, where you can customize the ARMS Character and their Arms.

Alternatively, the ARMS Character could introduce the idea of bonus fighters in Fighter Pass. I've been thinking we might get Bonus Fighters due to rumors I've heard from people

Do go on. Would they be individual DLC or another pass? There’s four slots after the pass ends so could they be those bonus four?

 

[Ben Holt]

Source? I haven’t seen this.

edit: nevermind it’s false yay.

Oh. Well oopsie poopsie. Guess I got fooled.
But thanks for correcting me. Now I know.

Based on how depraved the internet is, I'd still give the popularity points to Isabelle. For better or worse.

Though, Isabelle not being an Echo probably isn't due to her popularity. Through that logic, Sakurai doesn't care about Dark Samus, Daisy, Chrom, or Ken enough to make them non-Echoes. Isabelle is just the Dr. Mario to Villager's Mario or the Falco to Villager's Fox IMO.

As a Mario main with a pocket Dr. Mario, I can assure you that they are not at all similar outside of their voice and animations.
I assume that Villager and Isabelle mains would say quite the same.

 

[7NATOR]

Do go on. Would they be individual DLC or another pass? There’s four slots after the pass ends so could they be those bonus four?

So Keep in Mind I'm like 2% confident in this, but I did want to post this earlier, but it sounded very crazy but i'll just say

I'm guessing there are bonus fighters within this pass, kind of like Mii Costumes are sold separately while the Pass is still continuing. they be individual DLC

For the ARMS character, I think they may be a 15 character in 1 deal. I don't know how they would work that. An Idea i had was the Mii Fighter thing, where you can change between what ARMS Character you want, with their Special Gimmick and seperate stats, along with changing what types of ARMS like the toaster and boomarangs.

In terms of the other Bonus Characters, I was thinking of characters that wouldn't need stages, and could be based of an asset already in the game. I thought of Mrs.PAC-MAN, Octolings, Gooligi, Dixie Kong, Shadow, Geno, Waluigi, and Bandanna Dee.

I'm More curious of Mrs.PAC-MAN in particular because i had a guy tell me we were getting a Namco character that wasn't Lloyd, and that there was an arcade like Music track along with them. He predicted the Rabbids Mii Costumes way before they actually came along. On the other hand there is probably info he was being baited on because he was sure about Dante as FP5. He was talking about a Nintendo focused pass and mentioned Bandanna Dee, along with Something happening with Geno and Potential AT Promotions. He was talking about Yokai watch content also and with that Ness glitch and no Level-5 content, it was making me think about Professor Layton

and then it was weird when Mr. Fatmanonice was talking about Mrs.Pac-Man being a name heard around. Now i know Mr. Fatman isn't the most reliable guy, but i was putting things together and I kept coming to this conclusion. personally this might be a conclusion i want to hear because if Bonus characters are a thing, that means higher chance of Shadow being in the game and I really want the best Sonic character of all time.

I think some of these bonus characters would be more like costumes, some more like Semi-Clones, and few maybe more comparable to unique characters i don't know. I keep picturing Geno for example as a Gunner Semi-Clone with his own specials and stuff. yes

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So Keep in Mind I'm like 2% confident in this, but I did want to post this earlier, but it sounded very crazy but i'll just say

I'm guessing there are bonus fighters within this pass, kind of like Mii Costumes are sold separately while the Pass is still continuing. they be individual DLC

For the ARMS character, I think they may be a 15 character in 1 deal. I don't know how they would work that. An Idea i had was the Mii Fighter thing, where you can change between what ARMS Character you want, with their Special Gimmick and seperate stats, along with changing what types of ARMS like the toaster and boomarangs.

In terms of the other Bonus Characters, I was thinking of characters that wouldn't need stages, and could be based of an asset already in the game. I thought of Mrs.PAC-MAN, Octolings, Gooligi, Dixie Kong, Shadow, Geno, Waluigi, and Bandanna Dee.

I'm More curious of Mrs.PAC-MAN in particular because i had a guy tell me we were getting a Namco character that wasn't Lloyd, and that there was an arcade like Music track along with them. He predicted the Rabbids Mii Costumes way before they actually came along. On the other hand there is probably info he was being baited on because he was sure about Dante as FP5. He was talking about a Nintendo focused pass and mentioned Bandanna Dee, along with Something happening with Geno and Potential AT Promotions. He was talking about Yokai watch content also and with that Ness glitch and no Level-5 content, it was making me think about Professor Layton

and then it was weird when Mr. Fatmanonice was talking about Mrs.Pac-Man being a name heard around. Now i know Mr. Fatman isn't the most reliable guy, but i was putting things together and I kept coming to this conclusion. personally this might be a conclusion i want to hear because if Bonus characters are a thing, that means higher chance of Shadow being in the game and I really want the best Sonic character of all time.

I think some of these bonus characters would be more like costumes, some more like Semi-Clones, and few maybe more comparable to unique characters i don't know. I keep picturing Geno for example as a Gunner Semi-Clone with his own specials and stuff. yes

i can easily think of a stage for Octoling: MC. Princess Diaries (the final fest shifty station) and I NEED that octo expansion music

Bandana Dee, Dixie, or even someone like Black Shadow or Fiora could be fine without a stage or music tho. not Elma, she NEEDS a Mira based stage and those dope X jams

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I assume that Villager and Isabelle mains would say quite the same.

No Villager or Isabelle main worth their salt would deny that these two aren't Side Special: The Character so therefore this is blatantly false.

 

[Will]

As a Mario main with a pocket Dr. Mario, I can assure you that they are not at all similar outside of their voice and animations.
I assume that Villager and Isabelle mains would say quite the same.

Yeah

That was my entire point

 

[P.Kat]

Please, we all know the Gen 8 rep will be this specific Alcremie.
View attachment 270843
No others, just this one

I wouldn't even be mad if we get Alcremie. I'm just waiting for her anime to come out...

Spoiler

 

[Guynamednelson]

his

Alcremie can only be female.

 

[P.Kat]

Alcremie can only be female.

Whoops thanks.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Alcremie can only be female.

But Edward is male.

*X-Files theme plays*

 

[Perkilator]

Artist P-Fritz actually made a moveset for Alcremie a while back, how coincidental.

 

[Knight Dude]

Isn't the mortal kombat protagonist Liukang?

The protagonists changed a few times in MK games.

1-4: Liu Kang
Deadly Alliance: ????
Deception: Shujinko
Armageddon: Taven
MK vs DC and MK9: Raiden
MKX: Cassie
MK11: Raiden and Liu Kang

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

"This is because Isabelle and Villager have fundamentally different body types and personalities, so we couldn’t have made her an Echo."

Overall, that's your reason why she couldn't have been an Echo to begin with. Wrong bodyshape. There's nothing to suggest among any interview she was made more unique cause of popularity. Personality more led into how to make her unique, but it's still a part of why. If she was the same bodyshape, she'd have worked as an Echo with alternate animations that didn't massively change gameplay(but still changed it). It also bears worth mentioning that he said all the animations were different(though to be honest, you'd have to relook at it, cause that may be a slight exaggeration, perhaps). For Twintelle, her design is fundamentally different in how she operates. Her hair is what punches. She could at best be something closer to a semi-clone or a clone, depending upon how you look at Young Link, really. Since the key thing is a core height difference in their attacks, it's quite doable. But she'd have to be separate.

Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara don't have this particular issue with Spring Man's bodyshape, which is why they can work as alts(or even Echoes). It doesn't mean we're getting any alts for Spring Man(if he's chosen) besides (probably) a Springtron set either, of course. A good way to look at an Echo is how easily they could be an alternate costume. They're about the same height and could do so. But also their bodyshapes are pretty much identical(at most some inches differences. You can even have small things like armor, as shown with the Meta Ridley costume). This is basically what the small differences in the ARMS' design and other features would be for the other 3 mentioned with Spring Man. Springtron is another good example of how slight differences are fine for alternates.

 

[Goombaic]

Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara don't have this particular issue with Spring Man's bodyshape

If Isabelle's body and personality was too distinct from Villager's to have been made an echo or an alternate, I really doubt Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara would be alternates when they all have different personalities and body shapes that are more different from Spring Man than Isabelle is to Villager.

 

[Ben Holt]

If Isabelle's body and personality was too distinct from Villager's to have been made an echo or an alternate, I really doubt Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara would be alternates when they all have different personalities and body shapes that are more different from Spring Man than Isabelle is to Villager.

Yea, but Isabelle was inevitable. Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, and Min Min are contingent upon Spring Man. Maybe they could be split up into unique characters in a later game, but slots are limited for the Fighter's Pass.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Random question, but what do you guys think of those "For Smash" accounts on Twitter? I've noticed they're not as active these days (or so it seems), but I always wondered what the concensus on them was.

Me personally? I liked the Music for Smash account. What can I say? Smash's music is a huge selling point for me.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random question, but what do you guys think of those "For Smash" accounts on Twitter? I've noticed they're not as active these days (or so it seems), but I always wondered what the concensus on them was.

Me personally? I liked the Music for Smash account. What can I say? Smash's music is a huge selling point for me.

I never saw it [the music one] but it sounds cool. I sometimes have "what ifs" with songs as well.

Rules of Nature.
While I score a KO with Timber.
Why is this not a thing?

GameXplain even had an unfortunately named series about it. Though at present, it seems to be missing in action.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Random question, but what do you guys think of those "For Smash" accounts on Twitter? I've noticed they're not as active these days (or so it seems), but I always wondered what the concensus on them was.

Me personally? I liked the Music for Smash account. What can I say? Smash's music is a huge selling point for me.

Some “for Smash!” accounts are still active, they’ve just changed their names. Personally I think most of the ones I’ve seen are cool, they just show support for a character and gather other supporters like threads on this site and talk about different things regarding the characters, and they don’t bother the devs.

The music one feels vaguely familiar but I probably haven’t seen it, sounds cool though. I wish Smash kept Ai no Uta and Checker Knights, and added some like Battle Against a Machine...

 

[Knight Dude]

Whether Spring-Man's the only upgrade wouldn't matter much to me. Granted I like him already so I'm good there. I still think on a personal level Misango being a costume, assuming we're getting something along the lines of Hero, would be really neat. Those two are the characters I use the most. Though, whatever happens, happens. Though this is all under the assumption that he'd even be the playable choice.

I'm somewhat curious if they'll reveal who the next character will in their would be "E3" direct. Last year we got that, but if it's not a big deal.

 

[MisterHollywood]

My point is that we knew who we got, and as people wanted Mewtwo, people were happy. It wasn't 3 months of Guess Who and we still had a trailer after the fact despite knowing all of Mewtwo's moves outside of his Final Smash due to him being a veteran. The only reason to not show who the character was is simply to have people not talk about anything other than ARMS despite how ARMS would still get talked about if we knew who it was

What? My man, we don't know why they decided to leave the ARMS character unknown, they never said it was to get talk about ARMS. You actually acknowledged that no matter if they revealed them or not it would get people talking about ARMS, so that point makes no sense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Isabelle's body and personality was too distinct from Villager's to have been made an echo or an alternate, I really doubt Ribbon Girl, Min Min, and Ninjara would be alternates when they all have different personalities and body shapes that are more different from Spring Man than Isabelle is to Villager.

I'm looking at the models and not seeing any actual bodyshape differences whatsoever. One I didn't see yet was Min Min's model, so I can't really compare them at this time. Ribbon Girl, Ninjara, Spring Man, and Springtron have the same bodyshapdes. The personalities is a legitimate difference, but that has proven to not generally matter either as shown with Alph and the Koopalings. Alts are still plausible. The actual issue is at best making sure the unique abilities translate well for all fighters using them(which is at least 4 in this case). Though Min Min might be a little too different with her dragon arm, but the other ones, not so much. That, and those unique arms/abilities can be thrown into taunts or otherwise without disrupting gameplay.

Isabelle is vastly different from Villager's overall bodyshape. She's more comparable to Mechanica to be frank. The biggest difference I could see is at best a slightly longer set of legs, maybe, for the ARMS characters in question. Which isn't exactly a giant difference since that's really really easy to fix. There's as different as the Koopalings were from Bowser Jr., at least for the 4 discussed(Spring Man, Min Min, Ribbon Girl, and Ninjara).

https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/29/28660.png This is Isabelle's unique bodyshape.
https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/29/28698.png Where this is Villager's.

It was kind of hard to put the models on top of each to compare(being they're not the same model size in paint.net and that program likes to be picky with layers as is), but Isabelle is far shorter, stumpier, lacks legs/feet. She's literally more like Tom Nook's design, which a fundamentally different bodyshape overall. That requires entirely reworking every single attack she does because she has an entirely different kind of limb set. And that's just the Smash ones.

Opossum went over this a long time ago with better images. He can probably explain a lot better.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I never saw it [the music one] but it sounds cool. I sometimes have "what ifs" with songs as well.

Rules of Nature.
While I score a KO with Timber.
Why is this not a thing?

GameXplain even had an unfortunately named series about it. Though at present, it seems to be missing in action.

Some “for Smash!” accounts are still active, they’ve just changed their names. Personally I think most of the ones I’ve seen are cool, they just show support for a character and gather other supporters like threads on this site and talk about different things regarding the characters, and they don’t bother the devs.

The music one feels vaguely familiar but I probably haven’t seen it, sounds cool though. I wish Smash kept Ai no Uta and Checker Knights, and added some like Battle Against a Machine...

Since you both were curious about Music for Smash, here's a thread of all the tracks they've done so far. Though I should mention the account has gone on hiatus at the moment.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[-crump-]

I would argue that Isabelle was more of a flavor of the month, since she was the current face of Animal Crossing with New Leaf being the most recent game at the time.
Tom Nook is arguably the most popular Animal.

Calling Isabelle a “flavor of the month” character isn’t really accurate it all. Tom Nook is getting more spotlight for New Horizons, but he was never really pushed as a series mascot, at least not any more so than K.K. Slider or Resetti. Isabelle has made a lot crossover appearances and been the main mascot for AC for a long time now, and she’s still generally seen as the most popular character in the series.