Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SNEKeater]

About Mortal Kombat I don't know much but I don't think anyone besides Scorpion is a serious contender for repping the series, honestly. Maybe I'm wrong but afaik it's not like the character isn't relevant at all in MK's story.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Also following your guys logic does that mean Blaze Fielding could be chosen over Axel Stone if Streets of Rage were to get in?

Also given Terry is the Mascot of SNK, why was it being debated it'd be anyone else but him? Whatever suddenly happend to protagonist/mascot first?

I is confused...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

What he is trying to say is that in pretty much every Mortal Kombat, Liu Kang is seen as the "hero"/protagonist. Sure, Scorpion is the big boy, but he's not what they consider to be the main character. ARMS is like that as in there is no main character. Spring Man is just the face of ARMS. So even though Spring Man and Scorpion are the faces of their games, this doesn't make them the main characters.

Also, not all have just Scorpion on the cover. May I remind you of:

Spoiler: The best Mortal Kombat game

View attachment 270899

Isn't the mortal kombat protagonist Liukang?

...Liu Kang has been the nominal protagonist since at least MK9, and it was Raiden before that. Liu Kang was the main character of the first few games, but lately the story's pretty well been focused on Johnny Cage and his younger expy since then. Liu Kang has officially been a zombie and the lord of the netherrealm in most of the recent games, as if that made him important. His storyline really doesn't have much direction besides asking Raiden for advice and then getting the **** beat out of him.

...which is funny, since MK11 really tried to put him back as the central character, but the story still focused on Cassie and Raiden until a huge cosmic shift at the end.

I'd guess he's closest to someone like Jigglypuff at this point - someone who was important at the time, but has really been shoved aside for other characters and is only still around since he was one of the OG.

EDIT: No, Kung Lao is Jigglypuff. Liu is probably more like Ness or Captain Falcon.

I still don't understand how Nightmare is seen as the mascot for Soulcalibur. Also pretty bizzare to consider Terry as the protagonist for both FF and KOF even though for the latter series, that should be placed on Kyo.

Pretty well the same argument about every fighting game. Each character has their own story, but the story revolves around the sword Soul Edge, which is his weapon. Yeah, characters like Talim may be favorites, but tbh she really isn't part of the main story. That's Siegfried(aka Nightmare)/Kilik/Xianghua/Raphael up through 4. Even Sophitia and Seong Mi-na/Hwang/Yun-seong are pretty well off on different paths, and Mitsurugi/Setsuka have so little to do with Soul Edge in their stories.

But I think it's clear that Project Soul sees Nightmare as their mascot. After all:

...you don't get more 'mascot' than 'being a part of the (sub)company's logo.'

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also I never get why people likes to downplay protagonists, according to some Terry or Ryu are bland and boring? Usually said from people who don't know much about the characters or the games, but ironically it's not like Nakoruru or Chun-Li aren't really different. When you're at the point of not knowing really well the characters what is left is their designs and not much more, so it's just a matter of preferences if someone thinks that Nakoruru has a more interesting design than Terry's.
I don't know, if these characters are really bland and boring then for me they're as bland and boring as Mario, Link or Samus.

I'm not sure. As far as I know it's not a Smash fan thing specifically to label Ryu as "the boring one". Out of Smash, people seem to freaking love Terry, so I don't know why he got Ryu's label unless it was just by drawing parallels.

Coincidentally, Mario does seem to be seen as "the boring one" in the Mario spinoffs and Super Smash Bros.

About Mortal Kombat I don't know much but I don't think anyone besides Scorpion is a serious contender for repping the series, honestly. Maybe I'm wrong but afaik it's not like the character isn't relevant at all in MK's story.

You're not wrong. There are other picks they could go with (or more than one simultaneously via Echo Fighter or something), but Scorpion is the most likely choice.

Also following your guys logic does that mean Blaze Fielding could be chosen over Axel Stone if Streets of Rage were to get in?

Also given Terry is the Mascot of SNK, why was it being debated it'd be anyone else but him? Whatever suddenly happend to protagonist/mascot first?

I is confused...

I have no idea who either character is so... *shrugs*

SNK has multiple mascots: Terry, Mai, probably Kyo, and Nakoruru. It's just like how Capcom's mascots are both Mega Man and Ryu (with Captain Commando being a former one).

 

[CapitaineCrash]

About Mortal Kombat I don't know much but I don't think anyone besides Scorpion is a serious contender for repping the series, honestly. Maybe I'm wrong but afaik it's not like the character isn't relevant at all in MK's story.

That's fair, I'm just saying that even if Scorpion makes sense, it didn't happen, so you can't say that there's a pattern.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

...Liu Kang has been the nominal protagonist since at least MK9, and it was Raiden before that. Liu Kang was the main character of the first few games, but lately the story's pretty well been focused on Johnny Cage and his younger expy since then. Liu Kang has officially been a zombie and the lord of the netherrealm in most of the recent games, as if that made him important. His storyline really doesn't have much direction besides asking Raiden for advice and then getting the **** beat out of him.

...which is funny, since MK11 really tried to put him back as the central character, but the story still focused on Cassie and Raiden until a huge cosmic shift at the end.

I'd guess he's closest to someone like Jigglypuff at this point - someone who was important at the time, but has really been shoved aside for other characters and is only still around since he was one of the OG.

EDIT: No, Kung Lao is Jigglypuff. Liu is probably more like Ness or Captain Falcon.

Pretty well the same argument about every fighting game. Each character has their own story, but the story revolves around the sword Soul Edge, which is his weapon. Yeah, characters like Talim may be favorites, but tbh she really isn't part of the main story. That's Siegfried(aka Nightmare)/Kilik/Xianghua/Raphael up through 4. Even Sophitia and Seong Mi-na/Hwang/Yun-seong are pretty well off on different paths, and Mitsurugi/Setsuka have so little to do with Soul Edge in their stories.

But I think it's clear that Project Soul sees Nightmare as their mascot. After all:

...you don't get more 'mascot' than 'being a part of the (sub)company's logo.'

That reminds me. Guess whose on the Neatherrealm Studios logo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That reminds me. Guess whose on the Neatherrealm Studios logo.

So gonna be Liu Kang, Cassie, Raiden or Sub-Zero right?

Yes. They are all decently likely candidates.

 

[SNEKeater]

Also following your guys logic does that mean Blaze Fielding could be chosen over Axel Stone if Streets of Rage were to get in?

Also given Terry is the Mascot of SNK, why was it being debated it'd be anyone else but him? Whatever suddenly happend to protagonist/mascot first?

I is confused...

I think it's relatively easy.
Mario is Nintendo's mascot, but Pikachu and Link could be completely valid options as mascots as well.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yes. They are all decently likely candidates.

Of course.

After Scorpion gets in first.

 

[Us3inMN]

I think it's relatively easy.
Mario is Nintendo's mascot, but Pikachu and Link could be completely valid options as mascots as well.

We ALL know that Link is the best Soul Caliber rep.

 

[SKX31]

SNK has multiple mascots: Terry, Mai, probably Kyo, and Nakoruru. It's just like how Capcom's mascots are both Mega Man and Ryu (with Captain Commando being a former one).

Yeah, Kyo's a mascot (contender). Not just since he's in the forefront whenever KOF's concerned (such as the anime KOF Destiny focusing on the first three KOF games) but also several storylines in the games themselves such as the Kyo clone (that's a doozy).

Coincidentally, Mario does seem to be seen as "the boring one" in the Mario spinoffs and Super Smash Bros.

Reminds me of Mickey Mouse in a sense. In both cases there's a lot of incentive to keep that face (Mickey and Mario respectively) "clean" for the most part for the image's sake. Even if they wind up being seen as "boring" as a result. There are a few exceptions like Epic Mickey and I'd argue Super Mario Strikers (where Mario shows a gritty side), but point still stands.

It's noticeable on other characters: Mickey being the face allowed Disney to establish Donald Duck's trademark anger / butt monkey side, Mario being the face allowed devs to establish Luigi's trademark fearful persona.

 

[Freduardo]

Don't bother with the hands. Just give him the voice and have him attack by announcing everything. What? You thought his Off Waves came from his wings? Nah that's just him yelling "Failure!".

EDIT:

Everyone: "No! You can't show us a list of characters to be added and then pick one that wasn't on the list and isn't even playable!"
Sakurai: "Haha, Biff go bonk!"

EDIT EDIT: If we are getting an ARMS 2, I would love to see another...whatever Biff is as a playable character.

1) “Biff go Bonk” does make a perfect trailer tag line. Especially if the only audio the entire trailer is Sakurai laughing maniacally. And obviously sets up the most important DLC character, Bonk.

2) If there’s an ARMs 2, I don’t need another version of Biff playable, I need the OG. He shoulda been DLC. He even could have the easiest balance for his small size, takes half damage, moves double speed to the fastest character.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Also following your guys logic does that mean Blaze Fielding could be chosen over Axel Stone if Streets of Rage were to get in?

Also given Terry is the Mascot of SNK, why was it being debated it'd be anyone else but him? Whatever suddenly happend to protagonist/mascot first?

I is confused...

Axel Stone and Blaze Fielding are both the most prominent characters of the series so they share just as much importance as each other.

As for Terry, I think it was a combination of the milk bosatu leak saying fighter 4 was going to be female who uses a bird and just people never expecting an SNK character to appear in the game to begin with that made it debatable.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I do have to wonder what the ramifications are if Sakurai talks about Spring Man (if he’s the pick) and says something that framed him as a “special case” with a character who was previously an NPC.

I’m not saying that to build up some case as to why, “Scol is right”, but I’m just curious about the impact of a statement like that toward the overall fanbase. Seems like that would alter conversations going forward.

To be honest, I don’t actually expect him to say anything along those lines because it would rule out many characters, which it seems it not usually his style. But I just think about the aftermath of something like that and just...oof.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Fatal Fury/King of Fighters is SNK. If Nakoruru is the mascot as you say why was Terry added then to begin with who is really the mascot if anything.

Why was Ryu added before Mega Man when Mega Man is Capcom's mascot?

And I don't say Nakoruru is SNK's mascot, SNK does.

Also following your guys logic does that mean Blaze Fielding could be chosen over Axel Stone if Streets of Rage were to get in?

Blaze and Axel are from the same series. Terry and Nakoruru are not.

Pac-Man vs. Heihachi is not the same thing as Spring Man vs. Everyone else in ARMS.

Also given Terry is the Mascot of SNK

He's not.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Why was Ryu added before Mega Man when Mega Man is Capcom's mascot?

And I don't say Nakoruru is SNK's mascot, SNK does.

What are you talking about? Mega Man got in before him. Mega Man was Base game and Ryu was DLC.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What are you talking about? Mega Man got in before him. Mega Man was Base game and Ryu was DLC.

Ah...****, you're right. I ****ed that one up.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

We ALL know that Link is the best Soul Caliber rep.
View attachment 270901

Hey, what do you think got me into Soul Calibur?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Everyone: "No! You can't show us a list of characters to be added and then pick one that wasn't on the list and isn't even playable!"
Sakurai: "Haha, Biff go bonk!"

EDIT EDIT: If we are getting an ARMS 2, I would love to see another...whatever Biff is as a playable character.

That would definitely be a Samurai play, it's basically what he did with Byleth.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Reminds me of Mickey Mouse in a sense. In both cases there's a lot of incentive to keep that face (Mickey and Mario respectively) "clean" for the most part for the image's sake. Even if they wind up being seen as "boring" as a result. There are a few exceptions like Epic Mickey and I'd argue Super Mario Strikers (where Mario shows a gritty side), but point still stands.

It's noticeable on other characters: Mickey being the face allowed Disney to establish Donald Duck's trademark anger / butt monkey side, Mario being the face allowed devs to establish Luigi's trademark fearful persona.

Also that one sports game where he steps on Luigi's foot as he hands him the trophy. Really glad they didn't continue the abusive brother angle in future titles because oof.

Makes sense. Playable characters in general are seen as offshoots of him, for example, Toad is described as being faster than Mario, but with a lower jump.

Side Note: I don't really like Super Smash Bros.'s portrayal of Luigi being a coward. He's not afraid of literally everything, just ghosts and extremely dangerous situations like being attacked by Kaiju monsters.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To finally end this whole protagonist/mascot first debate.

Super Mario Bros.:
Donkey Kong:
The Legend of Zelda:
Metroid:
Yoshi:
Kirby:
StarFox:
Pokemon:
EarthBound:
F-Zero:
Ice Climber:
Fire Emblem:
Game & Watch:
Kid Icarus:
Metal Gear:
WarioWare:
Sonic the Hedgehog:
Pikmin:
Animal Crossing:
Mega Man:
Wii Fit:
Punch-Out!!:
Xenoblade:
Duck Hunt:
Street Fighter:
Final Fantasy:
Bayonetta:
Splatoon:
Castlevania:
Persona 5:
Dragon Quest:
Banjo-Kazooie:
Fatal Fury:

Explain please?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Side Note: I don't really like Super Smash Bros.'s portrayal of Luigi being a coward. He's not afraid of literally everything, just ghosts and extremely dangerous situations like being attacked by Kaiju monsters.

He seems fairly timid in the M&L games as well.

 

[-crump-]

I’m personally hoping for Spring Man, even though I much prefer Min Min as a character. The “no ATs upgrades” fan rule being taken out for good would make me a lot more invested in character speculation since my two big “most wanteds” are stuck as assists. If Spring Man comes and gives even a sliver of a chance to Shovel Knight, he’ll be my new favorite ARMS character for life (granted I’ve never played ARMS so it’s not really a huge achievement)

 

[Megadoomer]

Also following your guys logic does that mean Blaze Fielding could be chosen over Axel Stone if Streets of Rage were to get in?

Also given Terry is the Mascot of SNK, why was it being debated it'd be anyone else but him? Whatever suddenly happend to protagonist/mascot first?

I is confused...

With SNK, a case could have been made for a lot of characters. Terry's the company mascot, and the main character of Fatal Fury, but Nakoruru's also used as a company mascot. She's not the main character of Samurai Shodown (that would be Haohmaru), but her status as a mascot of SNK could put her in the running.

Then there's the fact that SNK's big fighting game is the King of Fighters, which is kind of like Smash Bros. in that it brings together most of SNK's major properties. Kyo Kusanagi is the main character of the King of Fighters series, but there are a ton of games represented in there. Not including KoF originals, Fatal Fury characters, or the occasional Samurai Shodown character, there's Ryo Sakazaki (the Art of Fighting series), Ralf and Clark (Ikari Warriors), Athena (Psycho Soldier - I think she was the mascot before SNK got into fighting games, though I'm not sure)...

My point is that there were quite a few potential options, even if some were more likely than others. (you didn't see too many people pushing for Ralf and Clark to be playable)

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Side Note: I don't really like Super Smash Bros.'s portrayal of Luigi being a coward. He's not afraid of literally everything, just ghosts and extremely dangerous situations like being attacked by Kaiju monsters.

I mean, Smash has always taken a lot of characters down to a one-word character trait. Look at how many people are annoyed that Wario's greedy, conniving, raunchy persona got reduced to "LOL FARTS!!" Not to mention it took how long to realize that Ganondorf isn't a slower racecar driver...but at least they aren't reading that as "tired old man" like they did in the last game.

I'm still not over how my ice queen is now a bubblegum princess.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, Smash has always taken a lot of characters down to a one-word character trait. Look at how many people are annoyed that Wario's greedy, conniving, raunchy persona got reduced to "LOL FARTS!!" Not to mention it took how long to realize that Ganondorf isn't a slower racecar driver...but at least they aren't reading that as "tired old man" like they did in the last game.

I'm still not over how my ice queen is now a bubblegum princess.

Ice queen...?

 

[kirbsmash]

Also that one sports game where he steps on Luigi's foot as he hands him the trophy. Really glad they didn't continue the abusive brother angle in future titles because oof.

I see that more as Mario being somewhat jealous but still happy for Luigi.,

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He seems fairly timid in the M&L games as well.

True. He didn't even want to go on the first adventure, but it wasn't to the point that he was afraid of a freaking Waddle Dee, saw that it was harmless, and then was still afraid of the next one.

That would definitely be a Samurai play, it's basically what he did with Byleth.

To be honest, you could probably say that about any character.

Everyone: "No! You can't add a character that isn't a character!"
Sakurai: "Haha, plant go pakku pakku"

Everyone: "No! You can't add a 3rd party character!"
Sakurai: "Haha, Snake go 'NOW!'"

I'm still not over how my ice queen is now a bubblegum princess.

...Zeldaaaa?...Peeeeach?...Jigglyyy?...Villagerrr?...

 

[Freduardo]

I mean, Smash has always taken a lot of characters down to a one-word character trait. Look at how many people are annoyed that Wario's greedy, conniving, raunchy persona got reduced to "LOL FARTS!!" Not to mention it took how long to realize that Ganondorf isn't a slower racecar driver...but at least they aren't reading that as "tired old man" like they did in the last game.

I'm still not over how my ice queen is now a bubblegum princess.

ice queen in smash?
Nana?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I’m personally hoping for Spring Man, even though I much prefer Min Min as a character. The “no ATs upgrades” fan rule being taken out for good would make me a lot more invested in character speculation since my two big “most wanteds” are stuck as assists. If Spring Man comes and gives even a sliver of a chance to Shovel Knight, he’ll be my new favorite ARMS character for life (granted I’ve never played ARMS so it’s not really a huge achievement)

Not to damper your hopes but to be honest I see Spring Man being the only assist promotion as he was considered for Base roster. At that time there were no plans for an second Pass and now that there is they're deciding to add him now as originally before.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, Smash has always taken a lot of characters down to a one-word character trait. Look at how many people are annoyed that Wario's greedy, conniving, raunchy persona got reduced to "LOL FARTS!!" Not to mention it took how long to realize that Ganondorf isn't a slower racecar driver...but at least they aren't reading that as "tired old man" like they did in the last game.

Thinking about it, when has Wario ever farted outside of the Super Smash Bros. series? I was going to say he was at least in character during The Subspace Emissary, but I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish, and if it wasn't "get money" then he was out of character...

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I mean, Smash has always taken a lot of characters down to a one-word character trait. Look at how many people are annoyed that Wario's greedy, conniving, raunchy persona got reduced to "LOL FARTS!!" Not to mention it took how long to realize that Ganondorf isn't a slower racecar driver...but at least they aren't reading that as "tired old man" like they did in the last game.

I'm still not over how my ice queen is now a bubblegum princess.

You talking about Zelda right?

Thinking about it, when has Wario ever farted outside of the Super Smash Bros. series? I was going to say he was at least in character during The Subspace Emissary, but I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish, and if it wasn't "get money" then he was out of character...

He specifically targeted Ness and Lucas because turning them into statues means that Earthbound fans would buy them at top dollar due to the lack of earthbound merch.

 

[Cosmic77]

Other AT upgrades are possible, but I do think some will have a harder time than others.

Waluigi getting in as DLC is easy to imagine. What's not easy to imagine is a whole new stage, several new music tracks, and enough relevant Spirits to make a Spirit Board being added for a character bundle.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Ice queen...?

...Zeldaaaa?...Peeeeach?...Jigglyyy?...Villagerrr?...

ice queen in smash?
Nana?

BOW BEFORE YOUR QUEEN!!!

No seriously, though, the colder Twilight Princess Zelda made a nice contrast with the bubbly Peach, so I did like that better. Just look at them together:

Peach is just like and Zelda means business. She don't need Link to rescue her.

 

[kirbsmash]

Thinking about it, when has Wario ever farted outside of the Super Smash Bros. series? I was going to say he was at least in character during The Subspace Emissary, but I'm not sure what he was trying to accomplish, and if it wasn't "get money" then he was out of character...

The move is based on Wario's scatological personality and his general love for toilet humor as seen in numerous game manuals and promotional websites for many of his games, mainly for the Japanese market, as the Western market usually leaves out this trait of Wario's personality. One of the first instances concerning Wario and farting is the Japanese manual for Wario Land II, where Wario mentions that his Hot Wario reaction was not produced "because his fart caught on fire (taken from smash wiki)

 

[DarthEnderX]

To finally end this whole protagonist/mascot first debate.

Explain please?

That's not the part people were taking issue with. You made the comparison of Terry Vs. Nakoruru when talking about protag/mascot first, when Nakoruru isn't even IN Fatal Fury. Of course the protagonist of a series isn't going to be beat out...by a character from a completely different series.

Nintendo decided to put a Fatal Fury character in Smash. There is no Terry Vs. Nakoruru in regards to which Fatal Fury character gets chosen.

I'm not disagreeing that Protag/mascot first seems to be the policy.

I'm disagreeing that Terry vs. Nakoruru is at all a valid comparison to Spring Man vs. Min-Min/Ribbon Girl/Twintelle/etc.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

We ALL know that Link is the best Soul Caliber rep.
View attachment 270901

Sakurai isnt adding Link dude. Too niche.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

BOW BEFORE YOUR QUEEN!!!

No seriously, though, the colder Twilight Princess Zelda made a nice contrast with the bubbly Peach, so I did like that better. Just look at them together:

Peach is just like and Zelda means business. She don't need Link to rescue her.

I liked TP Zelda too, though this iteration of Zelda makes me immensely happy that they're acknowledging Classic Zelda (and the series as a whole) rather than pulling all of its characters from Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess.

Also I remember one of Zelda's Brawl Taunts, the wave, always felt massively out-of-character for her in Brawl and Smash 4.

It wasn't until Ultimate that it clicked to me that the wave was something that Zelda would actually do.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also that one sports game where he steps on Luigi's foot as he hands him the trophy. Really glad they didn't continue the abusive brother angle in future titles because oof.

Makes sense. Playable characters in general are seen as offshoots of him, for example, Toad is described as being faster than Mario, but with a lower jump.

Side Note: I don't really like Super Smash Bros.'s portrayal of Luigi being a coward. He's not afraid of literally everything, just ghosts and extremely dangerous situations like being attacked by Kaiju monsters.

Luigi's always been a coward, he just doesn't realize he's extremely brave by reacting to eldritch gods the same way as he'd react to seeing a spider in his cupboard shelves

I do have to wonder what the ramifications are if Sakurai talks about Spring Man (if he’s the pick) and says something that framed him as a “special case” with a character who was previously an NPC.

I’m not saying that to build up some case as to why, “Scol is right”, but I’m just curious about the impact of a statement like that toward the overall fanbase. Seems like that would alter conversations going forward.

To be honest, I don’t actually expect him to say anything along those lines because it would rule out many characters, which it seems it not usually his style. But I just think about the aftermath of something like that and just...oof.

Oh boy that'd make my meme accurate

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Just some rambling about patterns/fan rules:

Even if a pattern has been there since the very beginning like the 'protag/mascot first' pattern, there's no guarantee that it'll last forever. From our point of view, it's an unbroken pattern, a perfect streak but from Nintendo's perspective, it's just a part of their marketing strategy (a strategy that could change depending on the context).

Here's a silly example, if Nintendo have good reasons to add Min Min instead of Spring Man they won't go: "Nope we can't do this! We can't add Min Min! Remember the rule, protagonist or mascot first!". They'll will weight both options and choose whichever fits the most with their current strategy.

Of course, the longevity of this particular pattern (protag/mascot first) is also hinting really hard at the fact that using the 'protag/mascot' to introduce a new series in Smash is an important part of their strategy. So yeah, i think it would likely take a very good reason for them to suddenly change that strategy but regardless, it's still a possibility.