Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'll take a shot in the dark and say that the ARMS pick won't be any of the ARMS characters with spirits, meaning it'll be down to 10. I'll go further and say that it won't be any of the DLC characters, limiting it to five, but I will say the irony won't be lost on me if the Smash DLC is ARMS DLC as well.

That limits the potential picks to just Mechanica, Byte & Barq, Kid Cobra, and Helix. None of which really make sense as picks in my opinion. I don't think the DLC characters have any real barrier since they aren't paid DLC; there aren't any barriers to entry for them if you were to pick the game up right now.

really you dont see companies get messed up by thier own success? did you not see microsoft at the start of this console generation or blizzard currently? when Nintendo had all the success with the wii it launched us into the wiiu era with medicore overall results. Companies get arrogant and it messes them up all the time. One reason the switch has been so sucessful is becuase nintnedo was desperate enough to try new things and idea which is why we got things like breath of the wild and oddessey taking major risks and departing from established fomulas and they also had much young dev teams and leaders than previous games.

"still getting paid s obvious." but there no reason to think geno will bring in the kind of money that would make such a deal worthwhile. I highly doubt geno is worth even 50 percent of whatever nintnedo paid for characters like hero or banjo. its Square's character but its about more than just money. He opens no doors with Nintendo, doesn't build new playerbase, doesn't advertise, and overall isnt a useful bargaining chip. Unless Square pulls a 180 there's no reason to think geno has any place in the future of their games. Like others have said geno doesnt have a person high ranking in the company (and perhaps more) like banjo did. people in nintnedo and microsoft wanted banjo to happen.

I still don't buy that SquareEnix would be the reason why Geno wouldn't be a pick as while they don't gain much PR, they still get money for it (and not likely a trifle amount as this is a Smash Bros. character), and they don't lose anything else. I think it's more likely that Nintendo's not wanting to use the character would be the more likely reason.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey guys, So I was just thinking about the whole Speculation about DLC Fighters using other characters as base models

I think I figured something out. All the Glitches like with Duck Hunt and Mii Swordsman, perhaps it's likely that while perhaps no DLC Characters are using those 2 as a base model (Banjo is based of Ridley), perhaps they take some of the coding from those Two Characters. Swordsman, along with the Rest of the Miis, have more than 4 Special Moves Coded into their character already, and we see Hero has alot more Specials than normal characters with the menu. Banjo has a Bird Companion thing going on like Duck hunt, so that matches

This may apply to the other Characters like Bayonetta, Ness (Supposedly there's a glitch based around him), and others.


Also I like to ask you people a question? Do you think the mechanics these FP2 Characters are gonna be more crazy than FP1, or vice Versa. I bet the DLC Development Team is even smaller than in FP1, and The Budget could be smaller, so I like to hear thoughts. Sakurai did say with these DLC Characters Especially they like to add New Mechanics, and so far every DLC has Done that

About that Ness glitch, I first heard it from a user in a small ish Discord server that Ness’s eyes disappear. That’s all I know, idk what triggers it.

 

[SSGuy]

About that Ness glitch, I first heard it from a user in a small ish Discord server that Ness’s eyes disappear. That’s all I know, idk what triggers it.

Never heard of the Ness glitch, but I am well aware of the Bayonetta visual bug. That alone made me think Min Min is the character due to her arm having a visual change from a Ramen Noodle to a Dragon when powered up. (Among other reasons)

The Ness one however is news to me. Any chance you can provide more information about that?

 

[Cosmic77]

I think getting caught up on what does and does not make the most sense from a business perspective is a bad way to go about speculation, seeing how that doesn't really line up with what we've seen previously.

While characters like Bayonetta, Joker, and Terry are cool, they aren't these massive names that make casual players' jaws drop and say "Holy ****! They added him to the game!? I've gotta buy the DLC now!". As I mentioned in my Banjo post, Nintendo could've went "Sorry, but we'd rather have Master Chief or Steve in the game. They'd be more profitable for both of us". There's no guarantee Microsoft would've went along, but the fact that Banjo was still the first character brought up in negotiations shows that making the most money is not the key to Smash's DLC.

I'm sure the accountants have some say in who gets added, but I don't think it really has any impact. Smash characters are gonna make money because they're Smash characters. Nintendo had confidence that Corrin would sell in 2016, despite his DLC releasing before Fates did internationally. As such, saying to ourselves "X is cool, but is it what would interest Nintendo as a corporation?" seems to be a wrong step.

Well, I do think Nintendo has a tendency to choose characters that they'll ultimately profit from, and when I say "profit", I don't necessarily mean just the sales of the DLC.

Just a while back, we saw Atlus having people participate in a poll that asked them which of their games people would be interested seeing ported to the Switch. Doesn't surprise me that Nintendo is trying to slowly shift Persona away from being a PS4 exclusive.

Dragon Quest has a long history with Nintendo, but it's not exclusive to them. They really value that franchise. Seeing how a special DQXI port was coming to the Switch with new features, it wouldn't hurt them to give people another reason to associate DQ with Nintendo. It also benefits SE too, which might make them want to collaborate in other ways.

Banjo is obviously just fan service, but Nintendo and Microsoft are on good terms. Between Minecraft, Cuphead, and this, it seems like Nintendo sees Microsoft as a valuable resource. Best to keep that relationship intact.

Terry's inclusion is the most confusing. Part of me thinks that this is a character Sakurai himself wanted and Nintendo allowed it, but I suppose they could genuinely be interested in the old NEO GEO franchises. King of Fighters XV is coming out soon, so maybe Nintendo is hoping Terry will convince more people to buy a potential Switch version?

Byleth is self-explanatory. Don't think I need to explain.

Again, ARMS is self-explanatory. New IP that they want to keep on the table, possibly because they have plans for it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Never heard of the Ness glitch, but I am well aware of the Bayonetta visual bug. That alone made me think Min Min is the character due to her arm having a visual change from a Ramen Noodle to a Dragon when powered up. (Among other reasons)

The Ness one however is news to me. Any chance you can provide more information about that?

Been trying to find more info on it but twitter turns up nothing and the user hasn’t said anything on it since

if it IS true though, Ness could be a base for a character that incorporates psychic powers into their move set. I imagine humanoid which is why Mewtwo doesn’t get the glitch

 

[SSGuy]

Been trying to find more info on it but twitter turns up nothing and the user hasn’t said anything on it since

if it IS true though, Ness could be a base for a character that incorporates psychic powers into their move set. I imagine humanoid which is why Mewtwo doesn’t get the glitch

I'd be so hyped for Raz from Psychonauts in Smash. Still not sure why no one has at least attempted a mod of a Raz model over Ness. They feel like they can complement each other perfectly.

I won't play devil's advocate for the other possibility since I have high bias towards him and I don't want to get my hopes up.

 

[kirbsmash]

I doubt glitches are an hint, really.

 

[SSGuy]

I doubt glitches are an hint, really.

I don't believe an intentional hint, but there is a believable pattern involving them so far.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

not sure why we're still bringing up the "character glitch means a DLC character's using them as base" theory when Banjo ended up using Ridley rather than Duck Hunt

 

[kirbsmash]

I don't believe an intentional hint, but there is a believable pattern involving them so far.

This game have a lot of glitches. Like, a lot.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

not sure why we're still bringing up the "character glitch means a DLC character's using them as base" theory when Banjo ended up using Ridley rather than Duck Hunt

Is there a source for that? I tried searching and didn’t find anything

I'd be so hyped for Raz from Psychonauts in Smash. Still not sure why no one has at least attempted a mod of a Raz model over Ness. They feel like they can complement each other perfectly.

I won't play devil's advocate for the other possibility since I have high bias towards him and I don't want to get my hopes up.

Could also be Neku if they adjust the height. Iirc Hero DID use Swordfighter as a base and the height was the only thing different. Probably for animations, skeleton rigging etc. if Ridley is indeed Banjo’s base, they also modified the final height.

 

[SNEKeater]

Well, I do think Nintendo has a tendency to choose characters that they'll ultimately profit from, and when I say "profit", I don't necessarily mean just the sales of the DLC.

Just a while back, we saw Atlus having people participate in a poll that asked them which of their games people would be interested seeing ported to the Switch. Doesn't surprise me that Nintendo is trying to slowly shift Persona away from being a PS4 exclusive.

Dragon Quest has a long history with Nintendo, but it's not exclusive to them. They really value that franchise. Seeing how a special DQXI port was coming to the Switch with new features, it wouldn't hurt them to give people another reason to associate DQ with Nintendo. It also benefits SE too, which might make them want to collaborate in other ways.

Banjo is obviously just fan service, but Nintendo and Microsoft are on good terms. Between Minecraft, Cuphead, and this, it seems like Nintendo sees Microsoft as a valuable resource. Best to keep that relationship intact.

Terry's inclusion is the most confusing. Part of me thinks that this is a character Sakurai himself wanted and Nintendo allowed it, but I suppose they could genuinely be interested in the old NEO GEO franchises. King of Fighters XV is coming out soon, so maybe Nintendo is hoping Terry will convince more people to buy a potential Switch version?

Byleth is self-explanatory. Don't think I need to explain.

Again, ARMS is self-explanatory. New IP that they want to keep on the table, possibly because they have plans for it.

Joker in Smash could help to bring Persona to Switch in the future, that's true, but in any case I think he could be considered a choice made to deepen their relationship. Same with Terry and SNK.
About KoF XV, if the game isn't a beast in terms of graphics I'm expecting a Switch version. Samurai Shodown was released on Switch, so why not the same for KoF XV.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Mii Swordfighter = Hero
Ridley = Banjo

Then the question leads to this...Who was used for base for Bayonetta and Duck Hunt? Hmmm...

 

[kirbsmash]

Hero DID use Swordfighter as a base

Nah, Hero uses..Link's as he shares some animations with him..

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nah, Hero uses..Link's as he shares some animations with him..

Did Link even have any glitches to begin with?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Did Link even have any glitches to begin with?

Did Ridley for that matter?

 

[kirbsmash]

Did Link even have any glitches to begin with?

From what I am aware of, no...?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Did Ridley for that matter?

Heh, that leaves us wondering then what other characters could had been used for bases leading to further speculation.

 

[Slime Master]

Mii Swordfighter = Hero
Ridley = Banjo

Then the question leads to this...Who was used for base for Bayonetta and Duck Hunt? Hmmm...

No one. Sometimes video games have bugs.

 

[kirbsmash]

In short, no, Hero wasn't from Mii Swordighter.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I do know there was supposedly a minor Simon/Richter glitch before Byleth was announced. Do we know who Byleth’s base is at least?

 

[SSGuy]

Is there a source for that? I tried searching and didn’t find anything

Could also be Neku if they adjust the height. Iirc Hero DID use Swordfighter as a base and the height was the only thing different. Probably for animations, skeleton rigging etc. if Ridley is indeed Banjo’s base, they also modified the final height.

Possibly. Every character that has been used has their height adjusted in the final product.

is taller than
is taller than /Smaller than
is taller than

I think the template ordeal is more or less used for functionality than it does for measurements. Each of these characters remain a similar archetype while also providing a trait that can be carried over to the DLC fighter. Regardless of final base, there is a correlation with the character receiving issues and the DLC character we received. The next few character(s) may have something to do with and For Bayonetta it is for sure a visual change, for Ness? I have no idea. Aside from having a big head.

 

[kirbsmash]

is taller than

Uncorrect, Hero is....Link's.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I do know there was supposedly a minor Simon/Richter glitch before Byleth was announced. Do we know who Byleth’s base is at least?

The Plot thickens...

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Does anyone even have a source for Banjo = Ridley? It's brought up every time we talk about character glitch and no one proves it and each time I or someone else asks for a source nobody answers.

 

[kirbsmash]

I am seeing this on Hero's wiki page and it points out that he shares some stufff with Li nk. Not Swordfighter.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm gonna facepalm so hard if the ARMS character isn't Min Min and people still claim that the character is somehow related to Bayonetta.

"Ribbon Girl!? It makes so much sense!! They're both female!!"

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Bayonetta = Twintelle
Duck Hunt = Amaterasu (I can dream)
Mii Swordfighter = Anime swordsman
Ness = Neku

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I am seeing this on Hero's wiki page and it points out that he shares some stufff with Li nk. Not Swordfighter.

Is there a source (like [1], [2] etc) affixed to those claims?

 

[Idon]

Mii Swordfighter = Hero
Ridley = Banjo

Then the question leads to this...Who was used for base for Bayonetta and Duck Hunt? Hmmm...

Neither of this are true, by the way.

 

[SSGuy]

Nah, Hero uses..Link's as he shares some animations with him..

Uncorrect, Hero is....Link's.

If you read my actual post, I mention that regardless of final product, each of these characters at some point had issues with the game that did not exist previous patch. Each of these characters all have some kind of unique trait that is highlighted by each new character. While I am not going to deny who was hat in the final product, these are the facts based on reports of visual errors or potential game corruptions caused by these characters bugs. There is no denying at one point Mii Sword Fighter was used as a template or reference point for Hero.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Does anyone even have a source for Banjo = Ridley? It's brought up every time we talk about character glitch and no one proves it and each time I or someone else asks for a source nobody answers.

It's simple. Banjo & Kazooie use Ridley because they need a bass guitarist for their new band.

 

[SSGuy]

I'm gonna facepalm so hard if the ARMS character isn't Min Min and people still claim that the character is somehow related to Bayonetta.

"Ribbon Girl!? It makes so much sense!! They're both female!!"

I only believe that Bayonetta could be used for Min Min or Twintelle. I could see arguments as to why someone else would fit this mold, but it becomes more unlikely if it were anyone else.

Is there a source (like [1], [2] etc) affixed to those claims?

|

If you are referring to the Smash Wiki, it does not state who was the template for Hero. Just how attacks are similar to Link, Y.Link and T.Link. Which one could also say regarding Mii Swordfighter.

It can be seen ingame, he shares his heavy carry, battering item, home-run swing and special flag animations with him, Oh, and the shied.

We are asking for actual proof, not the move set. Saying what a character action's are is completely different from factual evidence of what in game data was used as the template of a character.

 

[kirbsmash]

Is there a source (like [1], [2] etc) affixed to those claims?

It can be seen ingame, he shares his heavy carry, battering item, home-run swing and special flag animations with him, Oh, and the shied.

 

[7NATOR]

By the way guys, I know the Popular conception was that Rdley was used as Banjo's base.

That's not what i was getting at. I was saying that Certain Mechanics from 1 character could be taken to be used on another. So even if Ridley was used for Banjo's Base, Banjo could have used some of the coding from Duck hunt due to both sharing the Bird Duo Pairing aspect

Same thing applies to Hero with Mii's already having more than 4 Specials coded into Them, for the Menu Special.

 

[SSGuy]

By the way guys, I know the Popular conception was that Rdley was used as Banjo's base.

That's not what i was getting at. I was saying that Certain Mechanics from 1 character could be taken to be used on another. So even if Ridley was used for Banjo's Base, Banjo could have used some of the coding from Duck hunt due to both sharing the Bird Duo Pairing aspect

Same thing applies to Hero with Mii's already having more than 4 Specials coded into Them, for the Menu Special.

This is the impression I got from your earlier post. It would be ridiculous to really base a new character on only one character. Otherwise you will be literally making a clone of said character.

Appreciate the confirmation on this though. I definitely agree with you.

 

[kirbsmash]

We are asking for actual proof, not the move set. Saying what a character action's are is completely different from factual evidence of what in game data was used as the template of a character.

Okay, I'm getting this from the wiki..but 'll test it out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

About that Ness glitch, I first heard it from a user in a small ish Discord server that Ness’s eyes disappear. That’s all I know, idk what triggers it.

Never heard of the Ness glitch, but I am well aware of the Bayonetta visual bug. That alone made me think Min Min is the character due to her arm having a visual change from a Ramen Noodle to a Dragon when powered up. (Among other reasons)

The Ness one however is news to me. Any chance you can provide more information about that?

I've seen this glitch in action on a Yeet Smash video. I don't know what causes it either though.

I'm gonna facepalm so hard if the ARMS character isn't Min Min and people still claim that the character is somehow related to Bayonetta.

"Ribbon Girl!? It makes so much sense!! They're both female!!"

I think the deal was that the skeletons needed to match up, hence why Ridley was the base of Banjo even though they look nothing alike. Or we're misinformed. That could also be a thing.

EDIT: If this is the case though it may be that no one will be used as the ARMS character's base, or that if they are, the first thing they did in the rigging process was chop off the arms and insert new ones which sounds pretty morbid out of context.

 

[SSGuy]

I've seen this glitch in action on a Yeet Smash video. I don't know what causes it either though.

I think the deal was that the skeletons needed to match up, hence why Ridley was the base of Banjo even though they look nothing alike. Or we're misinformed. That could also be a thing.

Any chance you send over that link? I'm really curious about it now.

 

[kirbsmash]

In any case, I am not trying to argue here.