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The fact that we've been told Fighter Pass Vol. 2 only includes 6 fighters?
That’s kinda my theory with the 4 remaining data mined slots after FPV2. Perhaps 4 of the 6 FPV2 characters will come with Echoes to fill all the slots in one go. No base game/FPV1 echoes as they said FPV2 is the last DLC.
What if they're trying to surprise us though?
This is the mentality that made people believe Grinch
Geno and Waluigi definitely would fit this criteria for example.
True, that didn't occur to me until now. In that case don't want to set myself up for disappointment again.
I mean, we can get more fighters after this one but I don't see why would Nintendo false advertise for the sake of it.
Echo fighters were introduced as a concept only because Sakurai was in crunch time for base game and didn't have time do make a lot of unique characters. Now that he has about two years to work on six unique fighters, I don't think he has any pressure to force the roster number to be higher than he plans it.
It also assumes Nintendo doesn't want to charge extra for more characters, Nintendo's a business and not your friend so they'd absolutely charge more than 30 if there were echoes
In that case it'd be more likely we'd either get another Season Pass or just individual DLC like Piranha Plant.
That's a lie because my uncle works at Nintendo and he occasionally brings Gary from Nintendo PR to dinner.
An extra bundle of Echo Fighter DLC would be harmless imo, but I'm more interested in unique fighters at the end of the day. None of the echo fighters in base game interested me besides maybe Ken, so I'm not rooting for it.
I don't think the conversation we're having is really all that off topic. It's a genuine discussion about the possibilities for newcomers and how Nintendo is going to approach that process for potential newcomers in Ultimate and in general at this point. If it's a genuine problem, I think someone will tell us that.I was not expecting a response after all this time. Though I can hardly blame you - work has me swamped as well.
You say that we need to show Nintendo that there is demand before they do anything for those franchises... but really, that's wishful thinking. Mother 3 basically became a meme in the Nintendo community because no matter how much fans ask for it, Nintendo just won't do it. Same for a new F-Zero. They either are unaware of fan demand because they aren't paying close enough attention to fans (K. Rool's pre-ballot popularity being an example) or they are aware and still won't do jack.
It's easy to say these games "blew it by not selling" when not all games are launched the same. Let's take a look at the three games supported by Operation Rainfall, for one. Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story and Pandora's Tower. One of these was clearly better marketed and pushed compared to the others, so it's no wonder it was the one that had staying power - even though all three had demand and fan drive behind them.
And I don't think you're making a good comparison with the "old franchise vs new franchise" aspect. One look at the marketing campaign for Splatoon should tell you that while they did expect it to be a success, it was unprecedented even by their standards - an exception to their expectations, if you will. Believing that every new IP will do just as well is flat out bad management. Not every series needs to be the new Mario, so why would you expect a similar return from old series? Chibi-Robo never needed Mario's budget, but it needed some degree of push and have its future depend on a game that was actually close to what its fans wanted rather than just a spinoff that plays in a different manner.
Heck, you say it yourself: pre-Awakening FE survived mostly on the good graces of Nintendo execs... even though it was heavily underperforming and was pretty much lined up for the same fate as other IPs. So why can't they do the same for other franchises, then? In fact, I think FE is a great example in this situation - it wasn't underperforming at the time for being outright bad, just for not being pushed enough. The same can be applied to quite a few other Nintendo series out there.
I'm not saying Smash would suddenly make Golden Sun sell like Zelda, because that's just flat out absurd. But any bump in an otherwise inactive series is better than nothing. Sure, you can say that there isn't "evidence of tangible effects"... but isn't that also because we don't see it happening enough? I think it's weird when people say that "we can't risk backing this franchise" because their possible success is hypothetical when the very thought behind these franchises supposedly not selling is also based entirely on hypotheticals, if online support is anything to go by in some cases.
And yes, there are many other actions Nintendo could take to revitalize old IPs besides Smash... but this is a Newcomer thread in a Smash based forum and this whole discussion spawned because of the first party Brawl newcomers, so of course I'm gonna focus on that aspect during this conversation.
...All that said, I think we should take this on private, just because it's pretty much off-topic by this point. Good convos like this have become a rare sight, sadly.
We don't need more Echo Fighters.
Fair enough, but I don't think you're dealing with the full reality here either, but you're approaching this from a rather pessimistic "didn't sell, doesn't matter", instead of going through why it didn't sell. It's easy to say that the only reason Dark Dawn failed was because fans "didn't show up", when there's a lot more to it than that - same as with Chibi-Robo (which we already talked about) and Advance Wars (which considering the FE revival, is not IS' bigger priority right now). So really, it seems more like the devs don't want to do it for reasons other than a case of "too risky, wouldn't sell". And again - the reason you don't see more evidence of Smash helping franchises is because they stopped doing it post-Brawl. The only two first parties newcomers after it without a game in "current" or "past" gens were
and . That's it.) or yet another pick from Nintendo's biggest franchise ()... it does make me think we're missing out.
What was so different about Dark Dawn? AW tried to do a drastically different tone whereas Chibi Robo failed to be consistent for the Western audience and ended up appealing to none of it's pre-existing fansFair enough, but I don't think you're dealing with the full reality here either, but you're approaching this from a rather pessimistic "didn't sell, doesn't matter", instead of going through why it didn't sell. It's easy to say that the only reason Dark Dawn failed was because fans "didn't show up", when there's a lot more to it than that - same as with Chibi-Robo (which we already talked about) and Advance Wars (which considering the FE revival, is not IS' bigger priority right now). So really, it seems more like the devs don't want to do it for reasons other than a case of "too risky, wouldn't sell". And again - the reason you don't see more evidence of Smash helping franchises is because they stopped doing it post-Brawl. The only two first parties newcomers after it without a game in "current" or "past" gens were
My original point is that there used to be more exceptions being made per game. Does that mean every old franchise will get revitalized solely on the fact they are now in Smash? Absolutely not(where's my R.O.B. MK II, Sakurai). Do they need additional facts besides Smash to truly shine? Certainly! But the idea here is that there used to be a space for less conventional choices, but now all the element of risk is entirely focused on third parties - not a bad thing per se, but when even your so-called "unorthodox" picks need to either be a relative big hitter in its generation (
That's a weird thing to say.
Yes we do and we're getting them.
Wow I can't believe Massive Hero Soccer Guy is adding even more fighters after the second pass despite evidence to the contrary I'm literally shaking and crying right now, what a turnaround, wow, what a guy
It is then revealed that Sakurai was Toshimichi Mori in disguise all along and this is a repeat of Kokonoe
Damn. Next you're gonna tell me Sakurai wants a break from Smash or something.
That is a constant excuse people use when they try to make something they want to happen seen likely TBH. Yeah sure we have surprises but when something is confirmed to NOT happen, it usually means it won't happen. People were using the surprise excuse when Terry's video was announced despite how they explicitly said it had no new characters and said it couldn't be that long without a new character reveal. It is fairly obvious why it's such a common excuse as when you try to pick a reason out of a hat, surprise is kind of obligatory and one of the first to come out
Funnily enough I had a dream where I was searching through shops for amiibo of Chibi Isaac and Aisha Clan-Clan (or was it Shantae?)
Would I be correct in assuming Chibi Isaac is Golden Sun Isaac but based on his in game sprite/model?
This and the licensing costs required to use quite a few songs like Mr. Batty Twist and Rock 'n Roll (Mild)/Rock 'n Roll (Spicy).
This is a good point. Adding a character pulls them and their series out of obscurity, but it's never saved their series so far considering the Fire Emblem series still nearly died, and the Kid Icarus series's fate seems to be dictated by whether or not another developer wants to continue it. If not, it will die. Even the notoriety of the original 12 doesn't stop the series's involved from dying (
), or becoming a zombie ().
I had one where there was a Fighters Pass Vol. 3 with 12 characters. (The 100th fighter was the last one.)
Worth noting that the only thing said was there is nothing planned at this point.
Has this actually been the case though? From the accounts I remember, it seemed like they were already planning to localize Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade.
Let’s not forget the individual DLC section - seems like a waste to have it for Piranha Plant only
To be fair, we have even less of a hint of another individual character again. After told there was no DLC plans, we got another pass.
Maybe it’s because not every fighter is getting a spirit board!
Blazing Blade, the game that came out in the west was the one with localization plans
I mean, that could be the case. If they can't think of new stuff, they don't need one. ARMS has enough extra characters, sure. Most franchises do that they could add. But some might have less options, whether it's cause it could be, say, a Final Fantasy(VII) character, or someone from a franchise that has no feasible spirits they could think of(I can't think of a good example).Maybe it’s because not every fighter is getting a spirit board!
I thought they said the new fighters would get the whole shebang. Was it just that each one would get a stage & music?
Huh. I could've sworn Roy's game was localized. The more you know.
I'm pretty sure they said they were getting certain items, but I'm probably remembering wrong. I don't remember the link to the interview.
Ahh yes the one thing I NEED to survive, more fictional characters in this fighting game.
