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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SKX31

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You fix that by making FD and Battlefied mode the default stage picks instead of the actual FD and battlefield.

I will say in general I think the smash competitive community is way too conservative and rigid. There are way more viable stages and counterpicks than are being used which is a darn shame since it really does show we don’t know who the actual best is at the whole competitive game because there’s no one who’s had to master all the good stages as well. They literally cut out a chunk of the depth because they fear change and adaptation. I’d say more characters become competitively viable too with more options to less linear picks that favor the standard liked characters in the smash community, it literally has no downsides.
I'm not trying to sound harsh here, but OTOH, you need to keep in mind the format that the competitive community runs with. They prefer generally Bo3s (2-3 games per set) in the earlier rounds and Bo5s (3-5 games) in the later. That's because while Smash games last on average 3 - 5 mins, there are three factors I'd like to highlight:

A) There are loads of participants, going up to the hundreds or thousands (and people outside the top players) on a double elim bracket. CEO Dreamland, the latest tournament, had 506 participants in Ultimate. The top tier tournaments generally want more participants too - even if it becomes expensive (see C) because the # helps (once the tournament's established) enforce the notion that this top tier tournament can organize an event worth the top tier players' attention. For example: EVO.

B) Tournaments often run on limited time (it's why they run double elim - two set losses you're out - in the first place. Swiss first rounds do happen but most pools are double elim). In total, they organize for a weekend often, a week at absolute most.

C) Tournaments - especially big ones - are also really expensive to get going. Sure, tournaments generally have sponsorships nowadays too - but it's still a massive undertaking, and becomes more so the more participants you get.* This factor feeds into A) and B) - you need to be expedient, especially if you're aiming for 50 or more players (the point where round robin or even Swiss groups become an issue to run).

Having lets say 10 - 15 legal stages might "only" waste a couple seconds here or there - but it adds up when we're talking about hundreds or even thousand+ match ups. That many legal stages might wind up completely unneccessary especially in the earlier Bo3 rounds when only 3 max are chosen. Also, Bo7 (4-7 games) or Bo9 (5-9 games) are out of the question for most games in a tournament since a 2-0 / 3-0 scoreline is seen as enough of a statement. Especially if Player A's MKLeo and Player B's a relative newcomer or regional player (that happens in the earlier rounds). What you see is "fear of change and adaption" is probably just in the need for expediency.

Edit: Had the Smash community been organized differently I could see more legal stages (like had Smash been a professional league a la LoL's LCS / Overwatch League or the Big 4 Sport leagues) - but that's not the case really.

*Seriously watch that vid, Core-A's great with highlighting important details.
 
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Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
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Alright, I added up all of the votes from the three categories I had you guys vote for and these were the 4 most want of each category.

Please pick the 3 characters shown in the picture above that you want to see get added as playable fighters in Smash the most.

Please try to pick 3 and not just 1 or 2 as doing so messes up the final tally. Thank you for your participation
Phoenix Wright, Sora, and Rex & Pyra/Mythra
 

MarioRaccoon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 26, 2020
Messages
661
Alright, I added up all of the votes from the three categories I had you guys vote for and these were the 4 most want of each category.

Please pick the 3 characters shown in the picture above that you want to see get added as playable fighters in Smash the most.

Please try to pick 3 and not just 1 or 2 as doing so messes up the final tally. Thank you for your participation
Very difficult because there are all characters that I want.

Picks: Sora, Crash and Dante

Runner-ups: Doomslayer, Ryu, Rex
 

Evil Trapezium

Smash Master
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GuyManRunnin
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Alright, I added up all of the votes from the three categories I had you guys vote for and these were the 4 most want of each category.

Please pick the 3 characters shown in the picture above that you want to see get added as playable fighters in Smash the most.

Please try to pick 3 and not just 1 or 2 as doing so messes up the final tally. Thank you for your participation
Almost forgot about this

Doom Slayer, Crash Bandicoot and Sora
 

Garteam

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Canada, eh?
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Last night I had a dream they had a shadow drop for the Fighter #7. It was Homer, Marge, Bart, and Lisa sharing a moveset. Don't ask me how it worked because I remember thinking that in my dream and I'm pretty sure I didn't get an answer. I think remember Sakurai saying they were added because of the Simpson's Arcade game? Either way, good times.

Also, Fighter #8 was announced after them. It was Sae Nijima from Persona 5. Just regular ol' Sae in her black pantsuit. No powers or anything.
 

Ramen Tengoku

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Last night I had a dream they had a shadow drop for the Fighter #7. It was Homer, Marge, Bart, and Lisa sharing a moveset. Don't ask me how it worked because I remember thinking that in my dream and I'm pretty sure I didn't get an answer. I think remember Sakurai saying they were added because of the Simpson's Arcade game? Either way, good times.
Imagine having insiders and leakers say a Disney rep is happening, and everyone gets excited, expecting it to be Sora, only for the reveal to happen, and it's the Simpsons

I kinda wanna see this scenario now
 
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Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
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Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
Last night I had a dream they had a shadow drop for the Fighter #7. It was Homer, Marge, Bart, and Lisa sharing a moveset. Don't ask me how it worked because I remember thinking that in my dream and I'm pretty sure I didn't get an answer. I think remember Sakurai saying they were added because of the Simpson's Arcade game? Either way, good times.

Also, Fighter #8 was announced after them. It was Sae Nijima from Persona 5. Just regular ol' Sae in her black pantsuit. No powers or anything.
Imagine having insiders and leakers say a Disney rep is happening, and everyone gets excited, expecting it to be Sora, only for the reveal to happen, and it's the Simpsons

I kinda wanna see this scenario now
Yellow cartoon characters in Smash, huh?

 
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MeteoRain

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 3, 2019
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316
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BFE
All Right Time for round 3!

Pick 3 characters to be in Smash. And make sure you pick 3 characters in the image below instead of naming random characters this time. :chuckle:
Thanks again for everyone’s participation!
Shantae, Crash, and I'm torn between Scorpion/Slayer/Chief.
 

Cosmic77

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On a planet far far away...
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Bringing in cartoon and anime characters would simultaneously be the best and worst thing for Smash.

On one hand, we'd open the doors to a lot of insane options. On the other hand, that would mean most of the fictional characters that have ever existed would suddenly be viable, and the preferences between different regions would be even more severe.
 

GoodGrief741

Smash Legend
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10,169
I'm pretty sure all the restrictions in competitive Smash are based on what's fair and what's not, rather than what's skill and what's not.

For example, there's definitely skill in utilizing items well, but since fast characters have a huge advantage in getting a hold of them, slow characters would be completely invalidated because items tend to be so much more powerful than a character's base moveset.

'Random' stages -- or rather stages with powerful hazards -- are banned because getting hit by a hazard once can basically mean loss, or hazards can be so deadly and obstructive that they stop the players from actually playing the game (looking at you yellow devil).

The match is played in Stock mode instead of time because in a time battle the first player to get a kill is encouraged to just stall for the rest of the match.

The list goes on. All of those things would definitely require some degree of skill to exploit, but that wouldn't make them fair -- or fun, for that matter. I play with these rules 99.99% of the time because they're what's most fun to me, as oes literally everyone else I know over the age of 7 (or 8 idk, my cousins grow up fast).
I respect playing Smash however you think is fun. But I don't think any of the elements you described is unfair.

An item spawning is random, sure, but it still gives you a bunch of options depending on the item. Do you wanna get it? Do you wanna punish your opponent for trying to get it? And how do you use it? You don't want to fire a Super Scope away if your opponent is Lucas, because you're just healing him. Same with a stage, if you know the layout and the hazards you can avoid them or use them to your advantage. I don't play time mode either, but having to play keepaway when you're winning isn't unfair, it's a different strategy. I Ion't think it's that far-fetched to include some more of these elements in competitive play, I think they simply don't because it'd require them to look at the game in a different way than what they're used to.
 

DarthEnderX

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I think the whole thought process behind the system is flimsy. If you're really better than the other guy, then you'll beat them in a stage where they have the advantage.
That's the exact opposite of how it works.

If you're better than the other guy, you'll beat them when neither of you has an advantage. If they have an advantage, they could beat you IN SPITE of you being better.

I wish the competitive community would decide on one single "ideal" level arrangement, and then Nintendo makes it so that arrangement is available on every stage. I don't care what that arrangement is, just pick ONE.

An item spawning is random, sure, but it still gives you a bunch of options depending on the item. Do you wanna get it? Do you wanna punish your opponent for trying to get it? And how do you use it?
And what if Assist Trophies keep appearing near your opponent and you keep getting banana peels? Random doesn't usually average out to being even.
 
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HansShotFirst20

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I respect playing Smash however you think is fun. But I don't think any of the elements you described is unfair.

An item spawning is random, sure, but it still gives you a bunch of options depending on the item. Do you wanna get it? Do you wanna punish your opponent for trying to get it? And how do you use it? You don't want to fire a Super Scope away if your opponent is Lucas, because you're just healing him. Same with a stage, if you know the layout and the hazards you can avoid them or use them to your advantage. I don't play time mode either, but having to play keepaway when you're winning isn't unfair, it's a different strategy. I Ion't think it's that far-fetched to include some more of these elements in competitive play, I think they simply don't because it'd require them to look at the game in a different way than what they're used to.
I never criticized the items for being too random. my point was specifically that they give too much of an advantage to certain characters. Sonic, for example, can just run back and forth across the stage, hog all the items, and win because so many items are powerful while at the same time being non-committal.

Items are great for casual play when you're just messing around, but as soon as you apply an 'I want to win' mindset to playing with items, they quickly become broken and encourage degenerate play.

Items are great for casual play, especially at things like parties where not everyone plays a lot of Smash, and nobody really wants to tryhard it, but they have no place in competitive play.

That's the exact opposite of how it works.

If you're better than the other guy, you'll beat them when neither of you has an advantage. If they have an advantage, they could beat you IN SPITE of you being better.

I wish the competitive community would decide on one single "ideal" level arrangement, and then Nintendo makes it so that arrangement is available on every stage. I don't care what that arrangement is, just pick ONE.
It's basically impossible to decide on one definitive platform layout because of how varied the Smash characters are in terms of their movement and stage control options. If you were decide Battlefield was the definitive version, all the Little Mac mains would quit the character and the meta would be worse off for it. Same goes for any character that's bad on any platform layout. It would also limit the amount of depth and expression players have in their movement options -- which is basically the draw to smash over other fighting games anyway -- as so many tricks and combos only work on specific stages, and the way you play neutral, press your advantage, and get out of disadvantage can change radically with the addition or removal of even a single platform.
 
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Idon

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Neku from TWEWY is my pick for the coolest mage* in JRPGs ever. He's not some wizened mature sorcerer/ess that's frail and has hundreds of hours of academia under their belt channeling arcane mystic arts. He's a rotten teenage punk with an attitude and his powers are channeled from fashion pins. He beats up demons made of graffiti while wearing headphones that blast angsty J-pop and J-rock.
*who isn't the Demi-fiend
 

HansShotFirst20

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So I held off on listening to 'God Shattering Star' until I actually reached the
Nemesis
fight in my Golden Deer route and

oh

my

God

is it a crime that this song is not in Smash.

Like, if you were you give me the choice between the entirety of FF7's soundtrack and God Shattering Star to put into Smash, it would be the latter 90% of the time.

Shiieeeeeeeet that song is good.
 

SNEKeater

Smash Master
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God Shattering Star is great and should be in Smash, but lately I'm starting to find the song a bit overrated. I still prefer Edge of Dawn or Twilight of the Gods from Echoes.
 

ARandomFruit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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217
While probably not the best fit for a song I wouldn't mind hearing the final boss theme of Cindered Shadows in smash or any song from it really.
 

Sari

Editing Staff
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I still think the lack of Twilight of the Gods is the biggest crime in Smash history.
 

Captain Shwampy

Smash Master
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Messages
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Bringing in cartoon and anime characters would simultaneously be the best and worst thing for Smash.

On one hand, we'd open the doors to a lot of insane options. On the other hand, that would mean most of the fictional characters that have ever existed would suddenly be viable, and the preferences between different regions would be even more severe.
B E L I E V E
There was a problem fetching the tweet
 

Captain Shwampy

Smash Master
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3,074
To be fair, even Japan wants that guy, apparently.
We need 8 of them
Gundam
Zeta Gundam
ZZ Gundam
Nu Gundam
Victory Gundam
Turn A Gundam
G-Self
Shining Gundam

All come with their pilots of course.
Loran and Judau have their crossdressing alts.
 
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Captain Shwampy

Smash Master
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Looolll

I remembered lookibg at Eventhubs and on Japan's list they wanted a Gundam haha.

Not gonna happen.
ZZ Gundam OP made it clear that Gundam was infact NOT an anime as the Opening clearly states several times:

"ANIME JA NAI"

So technically Gundam MAY infact be a video game so it could count.
 

chocolatejr9

Smash Hero
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ZZ Gundam OP made it clear that Gundam was infact NOT an anime as the Opening clearly states several times:

"ANIME JA NAI"

So technically Gundam MAY infact be a video game so it could count.
Don't do this to me. I still don't know if Hatsune Miku counts as a video game character.
 

Hydreigonfan01

Smash Master
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Now that I think about it, are any of the Pokemon spinoffs represented? I guess Detective Pikachu counts, but he had a movie coming out, and was only a Spirit. No music or anything.
There's two stages called Pokemon Stadium and Pokemon Stadium 2 based on the N64 games. Those games are spinoffs.
 

Icedragonadam

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So my Fighter's pass ideal list but I'm only listing the likely stages for the character and it's a fill in the blank riddle too.

1.
_ _y
_ _e_ _

2.
T_ _an_ _
_ sl _ _ _
P _ _ _o _

3.
_ e_
N_ _
_o_ _

4.
S_ _ _e
1. _

5.
_ _ k _ r _ _
S _ _ _n_

6 .
_ _ _ e
_ _
_ h_
P _ _ _
 
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SNEKeater

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 4, 2019
Messages
3,375
I still think the lack of Twilight of the Gods is the biggest crime in Smash history.
Yeah, and if we're still talking about FE the lack of music from Fates besides Lost in Thoughts All Alone infuriates me. Fates' soundtrack is great and the 4 tracks we have are... Lost in Thoughts All Alone x4. I still don't get it lol.
 

PeridotGX

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I still think the lack of Twilight of the Gods is the biggest crime in Smash history.
I mean it's good song and all, but if I had to choose between that and
,I'd choose Dialga 100 times. I'd pay the full character pack price for that song alone, and double that if remixed.
 

ARandomFruit

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
217
So my Fighter's pass ideal list but I'm only listing the likely stages for the character and it's a fill in the blank riddle too.

1.
_ _y
_ _e_ _

5.
_ _ k _ r _ _
S _ _ _n_
The first one is Sky Arena and the 5th one is Hakurei Shrine i'm guessing? I dunno the other ones though.
 
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