Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[snowgolem]

I wasn’t that into Smash speculation at the time of the ballet. I was into Brawl, then dropped out of it for Sm4sh, then revisited Sm4sh right before Ultimate and got into Ultimate. But if I wasn’t brain dead during Sm4sh, I would’ve voted for Phoenix Wright. Maybe consider Sora, Sans, maybe somebody else but Phoenix Wright first and foremost.

 

[Opossum]

I'm seeing a lot of misinformation being spread about the Smash 4 speculation days and that makes me feel old. And because I don't like feeling old, I'll try to clear things up since I was very much here at the time.

The first thing to keep in mind is that the Smash 4 speculation era was broken up into distinct segments. The first segment was 2008-2011. This was the post-Brawl era where we had no idea what would come next. Next was the post-announcement era of 2011-2013, going from after the games were announced at E3 2011 to when they were first shown at E3 2013. Following that was the main period of 2013-2014, which was obviously post-reveal pre-release. Then there was the Ballot era, 2015-early 2016 with the release of Corrin and Bayonetta.

The post-Brawl era was a veritable wild west because nobody knew anything. As such, a lot of the characters brought up were Brawl era characters that didn't get in. Ray, Isaac, Starfy, Saki, Little Mac, Ridley, K. Rool, Micaiah, Geno, and Mega Man were all pretty popular. Even Louie and Jill from Drill Dozer had some support. Geno and Mega Man were pretty much the only super popular third parties at the time since most of the focus was still purely on Nintendo characters. There was some support for Bomberman and Simon, but mostly from people who opted to cut Snake since, at the time, people didn't think more than one character per third party company would happen.

Then came the post-announcement era. This was when I joined Smashboards. Prior to this point I'd been mostly lurking Gamefaqs and YouTube. Now that people knew not one, but two games were in development, we had a little more to go off of. The passage of time killed off some of the previous fanbases pretty hard. The big ones that remained were Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, Little Mac, Isaac, and Geno, with those other ones beginning to wane. We also started seeing support for Ghirahim, more support for Mewtwo's return (prior to this, there was a much stronger mentality of "once it's cut it's gone for good), very strong support for Palutena, and some stronger Mario character support (though there was still hesitance from many due to Mario's core four being "all it needed," Bowser Jr. and Toad had quite a bit of support...Rosalina and Waluigi had very minor support due to being seen as "unimportant"). Chrom, Takamaru, Zoroark, and Shulk also started seeing support. Pac-Man became a hesitant what-if when it was announced Bandai-Namco would be helping to make the game. Lots of fear for GA Pac-Man. Smashboards had its "Elite Four" at the time, which was Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, and Palutena, with Mewtwo as the Champion. Those who didn't count Mewtwo due to being a veteran moved either Ridley or Mega Man to the Champion spot and added Little Mac to fill the blank. Those six were EASILY the characters with the most sizeable support on this site. Geno was waning.

Next was the main era between the first trailer and release. Villager blindsided people because while people before now very much agreed that Animal Crossing should get a character, Sakurai's dismissal of them in Brawl was thought to be a death sentence. Mega Man got announced and people were very hyped considering his standing in the community. Wii Fit Trainer caused a lot of "wtf" reactions and people assumed she'd be our wacky Game and Watch/R.O.B. character. Rosalina upended Mario speculation. Little Mac got in and people were hyped, another big request like Mega Man. Then came the April Direct and alongside adding Greninja and basically cementing Gematsu, it also killed Ridley. Some still clung to hope. E3 confirmed Palutena, another big want, Pac-Man was hypeworthy due to explicitly NOT using the Ghostly Adventures design, and the Miis certainly existed. Robin and Lucina got in and Chrom died, leaving me very, very sad, but also it was another big name dead. Then Shulk got in and since he was pretty requested people were pleased, despite the odd-in-retrospect rivalry Shulk and Isaac fans had. Before that, though, the ESRB leak confirmed the rest of the roster. No Mewtwo. No Ridley. No K. Rool. Several popular veterans cut only for Dr. Mario to return. Only half of the really big six, and arguably the three BIGGEST of those six were missing. Geno's absence shocked precisely nobody because his support was almost dead at this point.

Whoever says K. Rool only started getting big in 2014-2015 either wasn't there or is misremembering. K. Rool was highly requested since right after Brawl released, if not immediately after Diddy got in. Yeah, Ridley was louder...but that was because Ridley actually had detractors. So shouting matches happened often. K. Rool didn't have that because K. Rool support was practically universal . Most people just accepted that he was in, so it blindsided so many people when he wasn't, especially after the Kremlings in Smash Run reassured those who were worried about Gematsu not mentioning him.

Then came the ballot era, after Mewtwo struck back and Lucas was announced. Lots of third party support threads went up, especially after the Roy and Ryu datamine. This included Banjo-Kazooie, who became fervently requested for the first time after Phil Spencer gave his blessing. On the first party front, Inkling had a very strong showing of support. Other than that and some smaller showings by Elma and Waddle Dee, most first party non-veteran support on this site was the usual suspects: Ridley and K. Rool. The two big (hah) omissions.

And after that, Ridley support grew VERY quiet, having been demoralized after Smash 4 and Sakurai's statements.

The claim that Banjo, K. Rool, and Ridley were EVER the "Big Three" is a total fabrication. The three never had a moment where all three were simultaneously the most supported characters, with Banjo's support starting especially late in the game, after Ridley's plummeted.

Ridley and K. Rool became as big as they were due to years, over a decade, of organic support from the community that exponentially grew. They started big AND ended big. They became popular before there was a "Big Three" or four or five or what have you.

And frankly, there will likely NEVER be another "Big Three." There doesn't even have to be. The fact is that now that the floodgates are open and so many long-standing requests are in, people's tastes are too diverse to collectively come up with a distinct group of big characters. Probably the character with the biggest clout right now is Waluigi, being loved by casual fans and hardcore speculators alike, but even then he doesn't match the heights of Ridley and K. Rool (I'd say he's closer to Smash 4 Little Mac and Palutena: pretty much the next level after, but not Ridley and K. Rool level).

So no. There is no Big Three. Anyone that would've been part of it is already in, and they're not gonna fill those vacant positions.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Speaking of the Ballot, I honestly have a theory that it also helped determine who DIDN'T become playable. Basically, I think they split the votes into groups based on how high they placed. The most popular became playable, then Assist Trophies, then Mii Costumes, then Spirits, and finally... uh, nothing. I know, there is evidence to suggest otherwise (most Assist Trophies were clearly ripped from past games), but it's just my little headcannon.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Forgot about them. I always forget someone. These guys will probably push back Amaterasu's reveal to 2065.

Or we get them all at once in 2031 with the Nintendo vs Capcom crossover that is totally going to happen.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well this is a thing. Got it from the ARMS character(s) discussion thread.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-arms-character-rumor/

 

[DarthEnderX]

His direct words were (paraphrasing, here) "The newcomers for Ultimate took heavy cues from Smash 4 DLC's ballot" and they "were surprised at how popular K. Rool was." Which doesn't deconfirm the ballot was used for Smash 4 whilst simultaneously confirming it was used to a certain extent for Smash Ultimate.

No but what they've told us about how long characters are decided on before they are actually released in conjunction with when the ballot actually took place pretty much does

Considering the final Smash 4 character was announced just 2 months after the end of the ballot, it's a pretty safe bet that the ballot had nothing to do with any of Smash 4's characters.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Well this is a thing. Got it from the ARMS character(s) discussion thread.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-arms-character-rumor/

It was posted to the anonymous image board, 4chan, and provides no details to back up its authenticity.

so it's trash then

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Well this is a thing. Got it from the ARMS character(s) discussion thread.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-arms-character-rumor/

If you're going to post reporting on ****ty 4chan "leaks", why not just post the "leak" yourself?

Seriously. This article says nothing.

 

[wynn728]

View attachment 268487
View attachment 268488​

Assuming you took no breaks and assuming it was a constant 300 per day, I honestly don't know what to feel.

And to enjoy the absolute disdain she caused in the FGC community? That's some real low-life ****. I feel legitimately sick to my stomach.

Here's the thing, 300 each day may be a bit over exaggerated, I know I try to do a hundred a day at the very least and cast the votes on my down time. Also Bayonetta is such a great character, and now that she's in Smash Bros her series gets more recognition, got her very own amiibo, got a Switch port with cool amiibo support, and is on her way to a third game where you know for certain they're going to reference Smash Bros. PlatinumGames deserve a rep in Smash and Bayonetta needed the Smash Bros push.

Also how could anyone not take joy in how Bayonetta ruined the Smash Bros FGC? Not many of these Smash Bros players are good people, a lot act like jerks when it comes to outside of Smash Bros. I heard how one of the top Smash Bros player was a complete **** to some artist who had booths set up at the conventions the tournaments where taking place at. So knowing that Bayonetta won a tournament and the entire crowd booed... let's just count that as an added bonus to Bayonetta's inclusion. Smash Bros FGC scene is filled with bullcrap, you take the enjoyment where you can get it. Just like how amazing it was knowing that EVO stopped hosting Melee tournaments, now that was a great day.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Well this is a thing. Got it from the ARMS character(s) discussion thread.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-arms-character-rumor/

Not really going to give much credence to the actual authenticity of the rumor, but in terms of the character content that would be the ideal for me.

 

[Idon]

No but what they've told us about how long characters are decided on before they are actually released in conjunction with when the ballot actually took place pretty much does

Considering the final Smash 4 character was announced just 2 months after the end of the ballot, it's a pretty safe bet that the ballot had nothing to do with any of Smash 4's characters.

I know:
just referring to what Sakurai said, Not what I think actually happened.

 

[ARandomFruit]

Well this is a thing. Got it from the ARMS character(s) discussion thread.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-arms-character-rumor/

I think anything with "geno and a smrpg remake" goes down on the realistic part considering it caters to what people want so they want to believe it's real, like the 4 character in one thing that people are spectating quite a bit about or that's my opinion on it at least.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think anything with "geno and a smrpg remake" goes down on the realistic part considering it caters to what people want so they want to believe it's real, like the 4 character in one thing that people are spectating quite a bit about or that's my opinion on it at least.

You laugh now, but wait until the absolutely foolproof Grinch leak gets confirmed, it's obviously real because I want it to be

 

[Fenriraga]

Well this is a thing. Got it from the ARMS character(s) discussion thread.

https://gamerant.com/super-smash-bros-ultimate-arms-character-rumor/

There is no way in the Seven-Star-hells that we are getting a Paper Mario AND a Mario RPG remake so close to one another, let alone in the SAME PRESENTATION. They're both things I could see happening, but announcing two seperate Mario RPGs on the same day would just cause one to overshadow the other and all kinds of other muddled situations.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Guys in retrospect I had a theory that the arms rep is just nothing more than spring man with each one having alts like bowser jr got with the koopalings

So it’s not another stupid 4chan thing its more of a safe bet thing

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Guys in retrospect I had a theory that the arms rep is just nothing more than spring man with each one having alts like bowser jr got with the koopalings

So it’s not another stupid 4chan thing its more of a safe bet thing

I for one think its Spring Man coming with Ribbon Girl as an echo.

 

[ARandomFruit]

You laugh now, but wait until the absolutely foolproof Grinch leak gets confirmed, it's obviously real because I want it to be

Ha the Grinch leak is obviously fake considering it has Banjo in it. Like they would add him in a quadzillion decades.

 

[Idon]

You guys misunderstood.

There is no "Big Three."
But there IS a a "Big Tri"
That's right:

Spoiler

DIMI TRI

Just look at how huge he is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Whoever says K. Rool only started getting big in 2014-2015 either wasn't there or is misremembering. K. Rool was highly requested since right after Brawl released, if not immediately after Diddy got in. Yeah, Ridley was louder...but that was because Ridley actually had detractors. So shouting matches happened often. K. Rool didn't have that because K. Rool support was practically universal . Most people just accepted that he was in, so it blindsided so many people when he wasn't, especially after the Kremlings in Smash Run reassured those who were worried about Gematsu not mentioning him.

In my experience, nobody talked about King K. Rool on the speculation thread from when I joined from about the reveal of Wii Fit Trainer until the ballot polls, after which everyone thought he was in. Either everyone talked about it while I was offline (which is a possibility since I wasn't on there 24/7 like I am now), or his support just kinda stayed in its own bubble.

You guys misunderstood.

There is no "Big Three."
But there IS a a "Big Tri"
That's right:

I thought this was going to be about the Tri-Force characters. This was better.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You guys misunderstood.

There is no "Big Three."
But there IS a a "Big Tri"
That's right:

Spoiler

DIMI TRI
View attachment 268537
Just look at how huge he is.

Wild how this is official Nintendo artwork and how DK isn't on it

 

[Opossum]

In my experience, nobody talked about King K. Rool on the speculation thread from when I joined from about the reveal of Wii Fit Trainer until the ballot polls, after which everyone thought he was in. Either everyone talked about it while I was offline (which is a possibility since I wasn't on there 24/7 like I am now), or his support just kinda stayed in its own bubble.


I thought this was going to be about the Tri-Force characters. This was better.

Then I can safely say you're misremembering. King K. Rool was inarguably one of the most talked about characters.

 

[Cosmic77]

K. Rool was popular in 2013, and while he easily qualified as one of the most requested characters, most of the attention was on Mewtwo and Ridley.

The Smash Wii U presentation in October 2014 confirmed Mewtwo and deconfirmed Ridley, and that's when K. Rool started gaining momentum. Once the ballot was announced he really took off, and that's around the same time Banjo and Geno were getting more support as well.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

You guys misunderstood.

There is no "Big Three."
But there IS a a "Big Tri"
That's right:

Spoiler

DIMI TRI
View attachment 268537
Just look at how huge he is.

It really bugs me how this image uses different artwork when they could all be using their Smash renders.

 

[Opossum]

K. Rool was popular in 2013, and while he easily qualified as one of the most requested characters, most of the attention was on Mewtwo and Ridley.

The Smash Wii U presentation in October 2014 confirmed Mewtwo and deconfirmed Ridley, and that's when K. Rool started gaining momentum. Once the ballot was announced he really took off, and that's around the same time Banjo and Geno were getting more support as well.

K. Rool was huge long before that Direct. Please don't give misinformation.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I had never seen anyone even talk about him until he became the big ballot pick so if the majority wanted him, it was a silent one until then.

EDIT: It would make sense if it wasn't the case during Brawl, though I wasn't there then. As far as ssb4 goes, I'm willing to bet the ballot gave him a huge popularity surge.

No it wasn't. K.Rool was massively suggested. Even being number 1 most requested when Mewtwo was revealed and Ridley deconfirmed, so I'm not even sure how you could've missed it. K.Rool support was HUGE. Denying that is just plain ignorant.

 

[Hinata]

No it wasn't. K.Rool was massively suggested. Even being number 1 most requested when Mewtwo was revealed and Ridley deconfirmed, so I'm not even sure how you could've missed it. K.Rool support was HUGE. Denying that is just plain ignorant.

Didn't Sakurai even say that the whole reason King K. Rool got into Ultimate was because there was just an overwhelming amount of support for him that he didn't see coming? I remember him saying that's also why he got a Mii costume in SSB4; the support was just insane, but it was too late to actually add him as a character, so he gave the fanbase a consolation prize.

That kinda support doesn't just come out of thin air, y'all.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I remember K.rool support being pretty big as far as Smash 4 announcement, because after Diddy kong in Brawl he was the next big DK character and in Smash 4 era people wanted a lot of vilains. He did got more push when Ridley was deconfirmed, but he had a lot of support way before that too.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Didn't Sakurai even say that the whole reason King K. Rool got into Ultimate was because there was just an overwhelming amount of support for him that he didn't see coming? I remember him saying that's also why he got a Mii costume in SSB4; the support was just insane, but it was too late to actually add him as a character, so he gave the fanbase a consolation prize.

That kinda support doesn't just come out of thin air, y'all.

It didn't. K.Rool was hugely supported after Diddy got into Brawl, which was a late entry for such a prominent character. That's why K.Rool support came kind of late, because Diddy came late. Even Sakurai said his addition was long overdue in Brawl when he was revealed that wonderful day in August 2007.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

All right let's just drop it. Regardless of when he became popular, he was at least hugely popular during the ballot era, and this popularity got him into Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Let's get back to doing some actual character speculation, preferably about Fighters Pack #7, since we've said pretty much all there is to say about the ARMS character.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Fighter Pack 7 I'm still saying is Crash.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

It's weird to see people rewrite K.Rool as this "character that only became popular recently" nonesense.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

K. Rool was popular in 2013, and while he easily qualified as one of the most requested characters, most of the attention was on Mewtwo and Ridley.

The Smash Wii U presentation in October 2014 confirmed Mewtwo and deconfirmed Ridley, and that's when K. Rool started gaining momentum. Once the ballot was announced he really took off, and that's around the same time Banjo and Geno were getting more support as well.

Did K. Rool gain significant momentum during the Ballot? Yes. But for him to gain such momentum entails having a significant fanbase that could be rallied once the time came.

K. Rool has always been popular. I was here during Sm4sh speculation, and he was popular throughout the entire cycle. Stop trying to revise history.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

It's weird to see people rewrite K.Rool as this "character that only became popular recently" nonesense.

Agreed. I honestly thought K. Rool has been requested since the Melee days. The more you know apparently.

 

[Lamperouge]

It really bugs me how this image uses different artwork when they could all be using their Smash renders.

but Dimitri doesn't have a Smash render...

unfortunately

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People really trying to pretend that K.Rool and Ridley's fanbases didn't overlap completely back in the Smash 4 days huh

 

[Will]

4chan text leaks about Smash Bros. happens every ****ing day on /v/, and to pick specific ones out has always been sus. At this point I'm convinced articles that report on it are made by said reporter for easy bait clicks because they're protected by the "Anonymous source".

 

[Mushroomguy12]

All right let's just drop it. Regardless of when he became popular, he was at least hugely popular during the ballot era, and this popularity got him into Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

Let's get back to doing some actual character speculation, preferably about Fighters Pack #7, since we've said pretty much all there is to say about the ARMS character.

I vote we move speculation to another DK character.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Fighter Pack 7 I'm still saying is Crash.

What do you think Crash's general playstyle will be? I know he should have something involving breaking boxes and Aku Aku (Wonder Wing 2.0?) but the only playstyle pitch I've seen is "make him spin the character" and I don't think that's a good design.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

People here talking about Ridley and Rool and I'm still waiting for the last two characters here to get in.

 

[Will]

I vote we move speculation to another DK character.

Right.

Funky Kong when?