Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

The difference is, that was a leak, not an official announcement by Nintendo. It's not going to be Spring Man. I'm confident in that.

Also, here's my newest Fighter Pass Prediction:

Just curious but what makes you think King Boo?

 

[UberPyro64]

Just curious but what makes you think King Boo?

The lack of a Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirit Event. We had the same thing happen with Three Houses not having a Spirit Event. And then we got Byleth.

Mind you, if they do announce one, King Boo is done.

 

[MrElectroG64]

I think we're all overlooking something quite important with Smash as a whole, and as a concept.

One thing the series thrives on is bringing in new experiences with every fighter. We've been introduced to make new gameplay ideas through the base roster and first wave of DLC. Sakurai has already mentioned that the ARMS fighter is going to require entirely new mindsets to work.

Here's something to think about. ARMS itself plays by totally different rules. Each character, even if they are unique within ARMS, fits within ARMS' formula.

If Spring Man is the ARMS character, he would ironically be among the most unique fighters potentially ever added to Smash. He may be the "middle of the road" mascot, but can anybody else in Smash as we currently know it do what he can? By default, Spring Man is easily one of the most unique series protagonists they could add.

This idea that he's "not unique" applies to ARMS, but I don't think it's that strong of an argument when looking at Smash as it currently stands. He'd be incredibly unique in the Smash landscape.

This is exactly the reason as to why I initially argued against Terry's inclusion, as he doesn't feel that different from Ken or Ryu in smash and doesn't seem like he really brings anything that new to the table the way an ARMS character would, but that's just me.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

This is exactly the reason as to why I initially argued against Terry's inclusion, as he doesn't feel that different from Ken or Ryu in smash and doesn't seem like he really brings anything that new to the table the way an ARMS character would, but that's just me.

You take that back right now.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I think the reason people think Nintendo characters wouldn't bring the hype anymore is that at this point all the A or B tier Nintendo franchises have a playable character, and in the case of Zelda and Kirby they have the main cast playable already.

They'd basically be adding lower tier Nintendo characters or recent Nintendo character. Byleth and Springman falling into the latter category.

Still several non lower tier Nintendo characters left.

 

[MrElectroG64]

You take that back right now.

Don't get me wrong, I still like Terry and actually quite enjoy playing as him. He's a bad-ass character, he just doesn't feel that new or inventive to me.

The difference is, that was a leak, not an official announcement by Nintendo. It's not going to be Spring Man. I'm confident in that.

Also, here's my newest Fighter Pass Vol. 2 Prediction:

While I still have to disagree about Springman being counted out as playable, I have to say that King Boo alone would make that fighters pass worth it, as he'd be an awesome character. I even made a moveset for him if anyone's interested (shameless self shilling): https://www.flickr.com/photos/184893183@N07/49166734317/

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Still several non lower tier Nintendo characters left.

Y'all gonna lynch me for this but

>unironically who

Don't get me wrong, I still like Terry and actually quite enjoy playing as him. He's a bad-ass character, he just doesn't feel that new or inventive to me.

IK some people think he's just hat Ken; I was being joking.
They definitely could have picked a more distinct FG rep like Haohmaru or Sol or Nightmare

 

[3BitSaurus]

The fact that each character has to carry a $5.99 DLC pass on their backs and also be a source of continued media attention for the game. A c-list character ain't doing that. The lower 'list' characters tend to go into the base-game.

Except... not every character has to carry the entire Pass by themselves. I'd argue no single character in FP1 did that. They just need to be worth that $5.99 for enough people to make a return. There's quite a few first parties I can see doing this. Sure, maybe not Diskun or Mike Jones, but if you told me that characters like Waluigi, Dixie Kong or Isaac, as well as newer characters like Spring Man, wouldn't be worth that money... that's simply not true.

Ah, one thing I just remembered: we have a lead towards a mixed bag of first and third parties in this season, don't we? Didn't Sakurai say that a "meeting with another company" was canceled because of COVID? Considering that a first party is opening the Pass, could this point to more of both down the line?

 

[EricTheGamerman]

The lack of a Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirit Event. We had the same thing happen with Three Houses not having a Spirit Event. And then we got Byleth.

Mind you, if they do announce one, King Boo is done.

I'm not sure we would ever get one because King Boo kind of already is in Smash as a Spirit. You could do the Spirits for sure, but a lot of the ground for Luigi's Mansion 3 like Luigi himself, E Gadd., and King Boo are already in Smash in varying capacities, so I could just see it being passed on for Spirits entirely even if you could potential add Gooigi and some of the ghosts as Spirits.

 

[RouffWestie]

I really hope the reveal trailer for whoever it is ends up being is like Terry's, but taken to the next level. I want to see all of the cast going wild, trying to knock the **** out of each other over the Smash invitation.

 

[Droodle]

Inb4 it's not going to be Springman because they wouldn't be so mysterious ends up being wrong, and it ends up being Springman. Nintendo be playing 4D chess, I tell ya.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

This is exactly the reason as to why I initially argued against Terry's inclusion, as he doesn't feel that different from Ken or Ryu in smash and doesn't seem like he really brings anything that new to the table the way an ARMS character would, but that's just me.

Well I guess Banjo ain't anything new since he's just Duck Hunt but British.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Y'all gonna lynch me for this but

>unironically who

Toad. And um...well pretty much just Toad.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Y'all gonna lynch me for this but

>unironically who

Unironically Dixie Kong.
Unironically Impa.
Unironically Toad/Toadette.

 

[MrElectroG64]

Well I guess Banjo ain't anything new since he's just Duck Hunt but British.

well, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I mean Terry DOES share a lot of Ken's moves in smash after all. That being said, Banjo isn't all that amazingly unique himself. He really is pretty basic. I can't think of anything that makes him stand out compared to other characters than his triple jump.

 

[Cosmic77]

We really need that "Which ARMS character do you think will be Fighter #6?" poll.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I really hope the reveal trailer for whoever it is ends up being is like Terry's, but taken to the next level. I want to see all of the cast going wild, trying to knock the **** out of each other over the Smash invitation.

They could use the Grand Prix thing and have it as a tournament, and whoever wins gets the invitation

 

[Hadokeyblade]

...I honestly can't see a problem with the former, really. One of the reasons I love crossover fighters like Smash and MvC is because they introduced me to "C-tier characters" from Nintendo or Capcom.

That's fine for Base game additions, but for a DLC choice it's pretty weird.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well I guess Banjo ain't anything new since he's just Duck Hunt but British.

They even have the same playstyle. So boring amirite?

Unironically Dixie Kong.
Unironically Impa.
Unironically Toad/Toadette.

To be honest, I think Dixie Kong and Impa are C and D list characters at this point.

 

[LightKnight]

I have yet to play the ARMS franchise but in the meantime I've been gathering information from the forums and video guides to the game so I'll give my current conclusions. My guess is that they'll only use one character from ARMS and they'll use multiple glove types as well as different character abilities/traits from other characters where it still makes enough sense. Their alternate costumes will likely just be recolors based on some of the other characters.

As for who it'd be, falling in line with my previous statements, my safest bet would be Ribbon Girl as her special mechanics fit naturally into the game and she is a semi-protagonist that currently has less representation in the game than Spring Man. Plus, she's also a female character which I know some people would be especially pleased with.
From a gameplay perspective, like many fighting games, ARMS is generally a lot about keeping a tempo/momentum of pressure against the opponent and Ribbon Girl is one of the characters to more closely resemble that while keeping within the mechanics of Smash.

However, if Nintendo were to veer off of the typical path then I could easily see a character like Min Min, Ninjaro, or Kid Cobra being added. I think these are still less likely picks though because of the different mechanics they have that are either quite different from Smash or would be difficult to balance.

The character I would pick from the series though and someone I think people are somewhat underestimating is a big body representative for ARMS, that being Mechanica. Whichever ARMS character is added, I expect their skill ceiling to be very high as there are many technical aspects to the original gameplay and when adding that to Smash and trying to balance it against the rest of the cast I think that is the result. Point is, Mechanica I think would be one of the better fitting additions due to the innate technical and balancing issues that the team is having to deal with. Mechanica aside from gameplay would also be one of the more unique fighters in terms of model because of being big and using a mech. We have very few big body characters in Smash so another addition sounds great to me, while giving the far hitting character a similarly big weakness. Gameplay-wise, she'd probably be a combination of Peach/Bowser/Byleth. Okay… That sounds kinda scary actually

One of the main advantages against an ARMS character is how reactable their moves are so I'm curious to see how that all pans out and if they will include the mechanic of sending arms one at a time for subsequent follow-up attacks seeing as thats such a core part of the game.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Unironically Dixie Kong.
Unironically Impa.
Unironically Toad/Toadette.

I'd argue Toad's the only real A-list there (though really, Mario is such a titan that half the characters probably qualify as A-list). DKC's threatening to become zombie-status again if Nintendo doesn't want to give them they new Switch title they deserve, and Impa's never been more than a side-character. Her biggest role is probably Hyrule warriors, which is a crossover spinoff game -- that might also change, considering her or a descendant of hers has good prospects for a major role in BotW2.

Other than that, it's down to the new Switch IP's -- which Nintendo has been cruel to in terms of Smash representation. I weep when I think of what an Astral Chain rep could have been.

Oh, that and a crapton of Pokemon

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So saying "the reactions will be bland" for a Nintendo character... feels like trying too hard to appeal to an audience outside the consoles. Keep in mind, ARMS and Spring Man wouldn't be my first choices either, but to be honest, the negativity I'm seeing towards first parties in general is kinda baffling by this point.

People are dumb. Not much to be said. But really, it’s just a vocal minority that would be upset at the hypothetical focus on first party characters. No-one’s going to care if Sora is more hype than the likes of Dixie should the latter hypothetically be playable and the former isn’t, because people will inevitably defend her inclusion against any detractors, just like every other character.

I think the reason people think Nintendo characters wouldn't bring the hype anymore is that at this point all the A or B tier Nintendo franchises have a playable character, and in the case of Zelda and Kirby they have the main cast playable already.

They'd basically be adding lower tier Nintendo characters or recent Nintendo character. Byleth and Springman falling into the latter category.

We still haven’t even gotten Toad and he’s way more iconic than most third-party characters and a staple Nintendo character. And in terms of hype, Waluigi easily beats the vast majority of third-party characters.

Also, people made the exact same type of argument against K. Rool, saying he wouldn’t score well in the ballot because only a vocal minority would want him.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

They even have the same playstyle. So boring amirite?


To be honest, I think Dixie Kong and Impa are C and D list characters at this point.

I think Impa was always on that level TBH. lol

Dixie Kong maybe.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

At this rate I'm personally expecting the Hero treatment so.

Spring Man/Ribbon Girl/Ningara/Minmin/Alt Spring Man/Alt Ribbon Girl/Alt Ningara/Alt Minmin

Springtron replaces Spring Man as his assist.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

To be honest, I think Dixie Kong and Impa are C and D list characters at this point.

Ummm.... couldn't agree less. The main heroine of the DKC games that starred in her own (main series) game and a recurring Zelda character with story importance (to the point where she saved Zelda's life multiple times in the series)? I'd say both of them are B list characters at minimum.

 

[Megadoomer]

We really need that "Which ARMS character do you think will be Fighter #6?" poll.

I can put one up there, though I'm not sure who the best/most likely choices are.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can put one up there, though I'm not sure who the best/most likely choices are.

All of them. There are only 15 characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I can put one up there, though I'm not sure who the best/most likely choices are.

If 15 options fit, then just do all of them. I wanna see how many Misango fans there are.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd argue Toad's the only real A-list there (though really, Mario is such a titan that half the characters probably qualify as A-list). DKC's threatening to become zombie-status again if Nintendo doesn't want to give them they new Switch title they deserve, and Impa's never been more than a side-character. Her biggest role is probably Hyrule warriors, which is a crossover spinoff game -- that might also change, considering her or a descendant of hers has good prospects for a major role in BotW2.

Other than that, it's down to the new Switch IP's -- which Nintendo has been cruel to in terms of Smash representation. I weep when I think of what an Astral Chain rep could have been.

Oh, that and a crapton of Pokemon

They're still selling Tropical Freeze on Switch for $60.

And Hyrule Warriors, like it or not, was the only non port Zelda title we had for 90% of the Wii U's lifespan, so it is more significant than most spin offs (which they are also selling on Switch for $60).

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Real talk though, the people complaining about the focus on first party characters have no legs to stand on and are a vocal minority.

 

[Megadoomer]

All of them. There are only 15 characters.

I thought there was a limit of ten for some reason. The poll's up now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

They're still selling Tropical Freeze on Switch for $60.

Ok but let's be real, Nintendo never discounts ****, dunno about you Yankees but here in the Netherlands, it took them announcing a new Smash to make Brawl cheaper than it was at launch

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I can put one up there, though I'm not sure who the best/most likely choices are.

The poll should be put in a checkmark list format so that people can vote for more than one, especially with how many people think there'll be a Hero/Bowser Jr. situation.

 

[Trevenant]

The lack of a Luigi's Mansion 3 Spirit Event. We had the same thing happen with Three Houses not having a Spirit Event. And then we got Byleth.

Mind you, if they do announce one, King Boo is done.

Lack of a spirit event doesn’t really mean anything. Ring Fit had to wait a very long time and Mario Maker 2 was also lacking a spirit event so it’s pretty much not going for any character atm with the lack of an event unless a new game that lacks one is as shady as fire emblem lacking one was

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Ummm.... couldn't agree less. The main heroine of the DKC games that starred in her own (main series) game and a recurring Zelda character with story importance? I'd say both of them are B list characters at minimum.

Feels odd to refer to Dixie as a C lister anyway, she is at least a B like you said.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

...I honestly can't see a problem with the former, really. One of the reasons I love crossover fighters like Smash and MvC is because they introduced me to "C-tier characters" from Nintendo or Capcom.

That just gets to be diminishing returns at a certain point though. Like, I ****ing love Chibi Robo and would love to see him in Smash, but I can assure you that his fan base is stupid small and there's no real incentive for Nintendo to invest in making him a playable character in Smash at this point. His series is dead and went through multiple games along that path with only one ever being a relatively minor success (not even that, but it was critically enjoyed and became a cult classic). And at this point, there's very little of Nintendo's catalogue to introduce you because Spirits, Assist Trophies, and other forms of content have already made those introductions to you and potentially piqued your interest in some of those franchises/titles.

Smaller characters have the potential to make certain segments of the Smash player population happy, but some of those more obscure or less important options just don't really provide as much from a utilitarian perspective of satisfying as many people as possible while achieving your intended goals as a company for specific franchises and characters. Like I guarantee you that there is no first party character that will bring about the same reactions that Ridley, King K. Rool, and Banjo & Kazooie did at this point. Isaac and Waluigi might get close, but they're also very much the last of old guard of massively requested fighters that generally managed to form massive communities around the idea of getting them into Smash and we're getting so far into Nintendo's catalogue of characters that you're just not even going to see the same fan return on a lot of IPs. Sure, new characters can become popular and that doesn't mean there isn't value in pursuing more obscure characters from time to time, but I think Smash's capacity to be that kind of game that introduces more obscure has kind of reached its peak as an entity.

Like it may make you happy and several of the people passionate and crazy enough to talking about Smash for hours on end on a website dedicated to it, but Smash has been sold to nearly 20 million people at this point and that's a lot of voices to keep in mind, and whatever decisions are made also have to generally align with Nintendo's outlook and decision making too.

 

[Megadoomer]

The poll should be put in a checkmark list format so that people can vote for more than one, especially with how many people think there'll be a Hero/Bowser Jr. situation.

Okay - I've bumped it up to four votes per user, since eight seemed like a little much (since that's half of the options). Not sure whether I should reset the votes or not.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Feels odd to refer to Dixie as a C lister anyway, she is at least a B like you said.

Yeah, she literally was one of the first female Nintendo characters to headline her own game alongside Samus.

 

[Cosmic77]

I don't like how certain people are suddenly acting like Nintendo characters "aren't big enough" to be included as DLC. As if third-parties are the only ones capable of selling and getting people excited.

Like, I get that there's a huge difference between Sonic and Spring Man, but to say an ARMS character shouldn't be part of the pass when there was clearly a decent amount of support for it back in 2018 comes across as, "I don't like this particular first-party, therefore we should keep getting third-parties."

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Yeah, she literally was one of the first female Nintendo characters to headline her own game alongside Samus.

The issue is that's the only game she ever headlined in, and after she was specifically introduced as a sidekick in DKC2, which was already specifically giving the sidekick of DKC1 the headlining position. It kind of does put her significantly down the totem poll, and like the DK side characters aside from Diddy Kong have been sort of in a state of limbo since.

I agree, she's basically with like Toad and Bandanna Dee in the "B-tier of characters with notable playable roles, but behind the existing characters in Smash by a wide margin." But I understand why people wouldn't exactly jump to her as a super important Nintendo character.