Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[RileyXY1]

That’s not true in the slightest. About half of the first Fighter’s Pass were huge requests at the time (Banjo + Hero) and none of them were bad picks, just some had smaller fanbases. Not a single one of them was barely thought of, except for maybe Joker. And the average person either A. Likes Byleth or B. Doesn’t mind them. But there’s still the 14.6% that’s being really annoying with posts like these, acting as if something is true because they think it is.

Hero was only speculated because of Vergeben and other leakers.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

E3 was cancelled tho.

I think they mean in a Nintendo direct around when E3 would have been.

Didn't they say they'll still have an online version of E3?

I just want Ultimate the end. Roster is great with some really disappointing moments. I can't care to what these next six characters are when there are characters that are just dead, the Nintendo character picks are shills, and the third parties are going to characters that people barely thought of.

You sir, have become that one kid at a party who is upset for one reason or another, and is trying their darnedest to make sure that everyone knows it by souring the mood.


Stop it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I just want Ultimate the end. Roster is great with some really disappointing moments. I can't care to what these next six characters are when there are characters that are just dead, the Nintendo character picks are shills, and the third parties are going to characters that people barely thought of.

three months later
"They didn't pick these AT promos for the fans! They're only playable to shill Golden Sun Remastered and Waluigi's Taco Enterprise!"

 

[snowgolem]

Hero was only speculated because of Vergeben and other leakers.

I had seen Erdrick as a popular request way before that. It wasn’t just the leakers.

 

[RileyXY1]

I had seen Erdrick as a popular request way before that. It wasn’t just the leakers.

The requests were mostly buried by Sora. He was only seen as an alternative if Sakurai couldn't get Disney on board, much like Neku is seen now.

 

[wynn728]

That’s not true in the slightest. About half of the first Fighter’s Pass were huge requests at the time (Banjo + Hero) and none of them were bad picks, just some had smaller fanbases. Not a single one of them was barely thought of, except for maybe Joker. And the average person either A. Likes Byleth or B. Doesn’t mind them. But there’s still the 14.6% that’s being really annoying with posts like these, acting as if something is true because they think it is.

Byleth was a bad pick, they're so uninteresting, and you're telling me that Terry Bogard was a character that many people were talking about? Nobody thought an SNK character was happen, Terry Bogard was only talked about because of the leaks.

 

[Deleted member]

I just want Ultimate the end. Roster is great with some really disappointing moments. I can't care to what these next six characters are when there are characters that are just dead, the Nintendo character picks are shills, and the third parties are going to characters that people barely thought of.

If you don't give a crap about speculating in the speculation thread, you have no place here and are just inciting tension. If the 100 arguments and callout posts weren't your first clue, let this post make it clear that your approach to speculation is inherently counterintuitive to the entire purpose of the thread.

 

[Hikraki]

Byleth was a bad pick, they're so uninteresting

tbh I was only disappointed at Byleth on reveal cos all the other characters were third parties, but looking back Byleth is a pretty cool character, especially for a "generic anime swordsfigher"

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I had seen Erdrick as a popular request way before that. It wasn’t just the leakers.

What sort of revisionist history is this? Erdrick was in no way a popular request before Verge.

There were maybe like, 4 dudes vocally supporting Erdrick or any Dragon Quest character before Verge, and they were treated like the local village kook. Anytime they so much as spoke about DQ they were told to not get their hopes up and go back to their designated corner.

 

[wynn728]

three months later
"They didn't pick these AT promos for the fans! They're only playable to shill Golden Sun Remastered and Waluigi's Taco Enterprise!"

Don't worry, there will never be an Assist Trophy promotion. Those characters are going stay in their snow globe hell.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I feel like people are conflating characters who have a lot of speculation talk with being characters that people will like. I can see why but just because a character has little talk doesn't mean they won't be well received.

See Joker and Cloud who had little talk because people didn't think they'd get in.

 

[pinshadow]

What sort of revisionist history is this? Erdrick was in no way a popular request before Verge.

There were maybe like, 4 dudes vocally supporting Erdrick or any Dragon Quest character before Verge, and they were treated like the local village kook. Anytime they so much as spoke about DQ they were told to not get their hopes up and go back to their designated corner.

Seriously, a Dragon Quest rep was one of my most wanteds for Ultimate and I can safely say that they were not even close to a popular request before the leaks, period.

 

[Deleted member]

I still remember when some people called me a madman for thinking Eight from DQ8 could get in Smash during the Google Theory days.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I feel like people are conflating characters who have a lot of speculation talk with being characters that people will like. I can see why but just because a character has little talk doesn't mean they won't be well received.

See Joker and Cloud who had little talk because people didn't think they'd get in.

I'm pretty sure nobody talked about Simon before his reveal, but when he was revealed everyone had a party.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'm pretty sure nobody talked about Simon before his reveal, but when he was revealed everyone had a party.

Pre Ultimate, he had some support but it was greatly overshadowed by requests for getting Snake back. You saw a lot of, "I'll take Simon but after Snake comes back". That already dwindled support also had competition with Bomberman in speculation discussion.

Post Ultimate reveal, we had Vergeben which makes him look like a character only discussed because of leaks.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Byleth was a bad pick, they're so uninteresting, and you're telling me that Terry Bogard was a character that many people were talking about? Nobody thought an SNK character was happen, Terry Bogard was only talked about because of the leaks.

Joker = A character from a beloved JRPG with flare and style that would make anyone fall in love with him and his friends. My most wanted character and a character people thought was a pipe dream but requested anyway

Hero = a massively requested character by Japanese fans

Banjo = A massively requested character by western fans

Terry = the inspiration for Smash as a whole

Byleth = a made pretty much made to be in smash from the get go from a beloved JRPG with tons of fans who wanted her in the game.

Your making a mountain out of a molehill bro.

Don't worry, there will never be an Assist Trophy promotion. Those characters are going stay in their snow globe hell.

Little Mac: Guess I'll die.

The requests were mostly buried by Sora. He was only seen as an alternative if Sakurai couldn't get Disney on board, much like Neku is seen now.

Neku is probably never going to appear in smash in any way shape or form.

I'm writing this in hopes that it will age terribly.

 

[pinshadow]

I'm pretty sure nobody talked about Simon before his reveal, but when he was revealed everyone had a party.

I wasn't around here when Simon got revealed but literally everywhere else people were saying Simon from the instant Snake was revealed to be in. Seriously, he was considered almost a lock after Bomberman got trophied.

 

[wynn728]

Seriously, a Dragon Quest rep was one of my most wanteds for Ultimate and I can safely say that they were not even close to a popular request before the leaks, period.

Holy crap, people keep ******** at me for not fully seeing Dragon Quest character as one of the most popular request and now people are admitting that they weren't really that requested way back when. **** me.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I have post on here that suggested Castlevania ( I actually wanted shanoa over belmont...), DQ, and SNK would happen at some point and most people ignored me or thought i was insane.

I even asked if anyone knew a good DQ game to play in like the smash 4 days when DQ discussion came up but no one gave me a recommendation since no one played them lol. Ended up picking DQV DS remake since it was cheap on amazon and it became one of my fav JRPGs.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Holy crap, people keep b***hing at me for not fully seeing Dragon Quest character as one of the most popular request and now people are admitting that they weren't really that requested way back when. F**k me.

It's one of if not the most popular game series in Japan, of course it was a heavily requested pick over there.


Frankly people who didn't expect Terry or someone like Kyo to show up in smash really weren't paying attention at all to the various guest appearances SNK has been doing these past couple years. It was the most obvious newcomer picks, especially considering KOF was what inspired Smash bros.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Frankly people who didn't expect Terry or someone like Kyo to show up in smash really weren't paying attention at all to the various guest appearances SNK has been doing these past couple years. It was the most obvious newcomer picks, especially considering KOF was what inspired Smash bros.

I wasn't expecting an SNK character but I had been paying attention to SNK crossovers elsewhere. That said, they're a company that went bankrupt in the past and after KoF XIV's launch, don't particularly have a reputation of being big budget. They'd take any exposure they can get.

I just didn't expect them because hardly anyone here talks about them. I'd always thought one would be cool and I was personally rooting for a Metal Slug character, just never really pictured them getting in.

 

[Deleted member]

I did see SNK being kinda plausible for some time due to how they were involved in the Arcade Archives line of Switch titles and the amount of Neo Geo ports we were getting from left to right on the Wii U and Switch.

They were there, just that It didn't fully hit me until the SNK leak happened.

 

[wynn728]

Joker = A character from a beloved JRPG with flare and style that would make anyone fall in love with him and his friends. My most wanted character and a character people thought was a pipe dream but requested anyway

Hero = a massively requested character by Japanese fans

Banjo = A massively requested character by western fans

Terry = the inspiration for Smash as a whole

Byleth = a made pretty much made to be in smash from the get go from a beloved JRPG with tons of fans who wanted her in the game.

Your making a mountain out of a molehill bro.

Oh geez, when you put it like that I guess I have to like it all now.
Also let's just ignore how Persona 5 came out after Smash 4 was completely finished, which means that during the time Nintendo were listening for requested characters Joker couldn't have been a candidate since not much was known about that character for people to form a connection to in order to really request them. But sure, real big requested character right there.
Also let's ignore how Edlegard was more requested than Byleth and how they already decided to put them in the game before Three Houses was revealed to the public. Nintendo just clearly knew the request before people anyone were say anything.

Little Mac: Guess I'll die.

Yeah, see how he was an Assist Trophy in Brawl and not playable until the next game which was many years later, he did die... a lot. Because anytime you summon Little Mac in Brawl he kept jumping off the stage.
An Assist Trophy upgrade only happen in the next game, and see how we only have a total of three with one being unique and the other two being clones kind of goes to show that majority of these characters Sakurai chose to be Assist Trophies are because he just doesn't have a moveset for them.

It's one of if not the most popular game series in Japan, of course it was a heavily requested pick over there.


Frankly people who didn't expect Terry or someone like Kyo to show up in smash really weren't paying attention at all to the various guest appearances SNK has been doing these past couple years. It was the most obvious newcomer picks, especially considering KOF was what inspired Smash bros.

If a Dragon Quest character was an extremely popular pick you think it would've made a dent in the Source Gaming Japanese poll back in 2015 when the Ballot was happening, or at the very least have some major presence during the speculation of Smash 4 DLC and lead up to Ultimate. https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

Also are you really saying that SNK was an obvious pick with a straight face? Yeah, sure it was. Totally

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Oh geez, when you put it like that I guess I have to like it all now.
Also let's just ignore how Persona 5 came out after Smash 4 was completely finished, which means that during the time Nintendo were listening for requested characters Joker couldn't have been a candidate since not much was known about that character for people to form a connection to in order to really request them. But sure, real big requested character right there.
Also let's ignore how Edlegard was more requested than Byleth and how they already decided to put them in the game before Three Houses was revealed to the public. Nintendo just clearly knew the request before people anyone were say anything.


Yeah, see how he was an Assist Trophy in Brawl and not playable until the next game which was many years later, he did die... a lot. Because anytime you summon Little Mac in Brawl he kept jumping off the stage.
An Assist Trophy upgrade only happen in the next game, and see how we only have a total of three with one being unique and the other two being clones kind of goes to show that majority of these characters Sakurai chose to be Assist Trophies are because he just doesn't have a moveset for them.

However when the DLC for Ultimate was being decided on P5 had already been out since 2016, that's more than enough time for his character to get firmly established and as you can tell he was a big enough character in Sega that either him or someone like Kiryu was making it in should they chose a third Sega character and they went with him.

And they were confident enough that three houses had the quality to make people invested enough in Byleth, and it payed off as everyone kinda expected her to show up and she provided enough moveset potential that it made sense to include her.

 

[osby]

Oh geez, when you put it like that I guess I have to like it all now.
Also let's just ignore how Persona 5 came out after Smash 4 was completely finished, which means that during the time Nintendo were listening for requested characters Joker couldn't have been a candidate since not much was known about that character for people to form a connection to in order to really request them. But sure, real big requested character right there.
Also let's ignore how Edlegard was more requested than Byleth and how they already decided to put them in the game before Three Houses was revealed to the public. Nintendo just clearly knew the request before people anyone were say anything.


Yeah, see how he was an Assist Trophy in Brawl and not playable until the next game which was many years later, he did die... a lot. Because anytime you summon Little Mac in Brawl he kept jumping off the stage.
An Assist Trophy upgrade only happen in the next game, and see how we only have a total of three with one being unique and the other two being clones kind of goes to show that majority of these characters Sakurai chose to be Assist Trophies are because he just doesn't have a moveset for them.

If a Dragon Quest character was an extremely popular pick you think it would've made a dent in the Source Gaming Japanese poll back in 2015 when the Ballot was happening, or at the very least have some major presence during the speculation of Smash 4 DLC and lead up to Ultimate. https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/

Also are you really saying that SNK was an obvious pick with a straight face? Yeah, sure it was. Totally

It's so curious that how you only ever come to this thread to say people stop wanting things and complain about Smash and tell how you have no interest in newcomers.

This has a name and it's not "being realistic".

 

[Deleted member]

Can't believe FP6 is rollback netcode

 

[wynn728]

And they were confident enough that three houses had the quality to make people invested enough in Byleth, and it payed off as everyone kinda expected her to show up and she provided enough moveset potential that it made sense to include her.

People expect for Byleth to show up because the newest Fire Emblem character always gets added in, people just thought they would wait for Vol 2 instead. And moveset had nothing to do with their inclusion making sense, them being the avatar character is what made them make sense as the Three Houses pick, just like Robin and Corrin.

Also most Three Houses fans agree that out of all the characters that are in that game Byleth is the weakest one since they're just silent protagonist who barely emote.

And yeah, such an amazing pay off where Sakurai himself had to write an article agreeing that there were too many FE characters and understand the disappointment. Also Byleth reveal video is still one of Nintendo's most Disliked videos on their channel.

 

[pinshadow]

However when the DLC for Ultimate was being decided on P5 had already been out since 2016, that's more than enough time for his character to get firmly established and as you can tell he was a big enough character in Sega that either him or someone like Kiryu was making it in should they chose a third Sega character and they went with him.

And they were confident enough that three houses had the quality to make people invested enough in Byleth, and it payed off as everyone kinda expected her to show up and she provided enough moveset potential that it made sense to include her.

People expected Byleth because they pulled the exact same stunt with Corrin last game. They chose Byleth because there was really no first-party games coming out last year that actually used new characters aside from Pokemon. And no, the reception to Byleth wasn't great, the youtube likes speak for themselves, and that's a whoooole lot bigger base to go off of than the poll in this thread. (and if I'm being honest, the people in this thread seem more biased towards Byleth than anywhere else by a LONG shot.)

 

[PLATINUM7]

People expected Byleth because they pulled the exact same stunt with Corrin last game. They chose Byleth because there was really no first-party games coming out this year that actually used new characters aside from Pokemon.

Yeah and let's flash back to when we first found out Nintendo had a hand in picking DLC and everyone was expecting Fire Emblem, Pokemon and 3 other shill 1st party picks.

 

[DarthEnderX]

And that's even assuming that there is a contract. For all we know the presentation that's postponed was early stages of negotiations and could still fall through.

Sakurai said the 6 characters in FP6 had already been decided. I don't think he would have said that unless they were a done deal.

I think what it comes down to is, companies likely have final approval on how their characters are represented. And with all meetings basically cancelled at the moment, Sakurai is unable to present his work to obtain that final approval.


Even though I think all of that could be done remotely, Sakurai seems to think that method isn't secure enough for such top secret projects.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Holy crap, people keep b***hing at me for not fully seeing Dragon Quest character as one of the most popular request and now people are admitting that they weren't really that requested way back when. F**k me.

I'll let you in on a little secret: We're all super biased dum dums that don't know much about anything. But we all take our shots in the dark anyway, sharing who we want, why and how we want them, and who we'll think we'll get (spoiler alert: we're wrong). We learn new things about the things we like and come to like new things. To be honest, this thread is in the best state I've ever seen. After everything that's happened, people are super open to new ideas and aren't fixated on a small group of characters, so the discussion never gets stale.

Then you come in and trash all of our topics without offering any ideas of your own. That's why we're all upset with you. Now, I'm not saying you're public enemy #1. Far from it. The way I see it, you're just someone who wasn't happy with the first round of DLC. It's bound to happen. Not everybody likes everything and some people have very specific tastes. But all of your mopey remarks are bringing us down and chiming in to shut our conversations down under the guise of keeping expectations real is flat out just rude. And sure, we could block you, but I feel like silencing people because they're rude is much worse.

So please: If you don't like where the discussion is going then wait for a topic you like or introduce a topic of your own. Don't respond to our ideas with a jaded "it's not happening". It just upsets people and often misses the point of the conversation in the first place since we deal largely in hypotheticals.

Thank you for probably not reading my sleep deprived rant.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Personally? I wouldn't count on a cure (for those already infected) until mid-2021.

I mean, cure? Your body cures the virus itself after a couple weeks...except for those that it doesn't...

THEN LEAVE. Seriously, if you have no expectations for Pass 2, and you really don't think you are going to care about who gets in, then why are you even here? I'd think you'd have a better time doing literally anything else.

Because the actual reason he's here is to troll. Which he's still able to do.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

21st

I'll let you in on a little secret: We're all super biased dum dums that don't know much about anything. But we all take our shots in the dark anyway, sharing who we want, why and how we want them, and who we'll think we'll get (spoiler alert: we're wrong). We learn new things about the things we like and come to like new things. To be honest, this thread is in the best state I've ever seen. After everything that's happened, people are super open to new ideas and aren't fixated on a small group of characters, so the discussion never gets stale.

Then you come in and trash all of our topics without offering any ideas of your own. That's why we're all upset with you. Now, I'm not saying you're public enemy #1. Far from it. The way I see it, you're just someone who wasn't happy with the first round of DLC. It's bound to happen. Not everybody likes everything and some people have very specific tastes. But all of your mopey remarks are bringing us down and chiming in to shut our conversations down under the guise of keeping expectations real is flat out just rude. And sure, we could block you, but I feel like silencing people because they're rude is much worse.

So please: If you don't like where the discussion is going then wait for a topic you like or introduce a topic of your own. Don't respond to our ideas with a jaded "it's not happening". It just upsets people and often misses the point of the conversation in the first place since we deal largely in hypotheticals.

Thank you for probably not reading my sleep deprived rant.

But you don't understand! Dragon warrior and Revelations Persona are obscure games that nobody played!

 

[DarthEnderX]

three months later
"They didn't pick these AT promos for the fans! They're only playable to shill Golden Sun Remastered and Waluigi's Taco Enterprise!"

WALUIGI'S WRECKING CREW, DAMMIT!

I'm pretty sure nobody talked about Simon before his reveal, but when he was revealed everyone had a party.

Lies. Simon was highly anticipated ever since Mega Man was revealed. Because Captain N is everyone's favorite show ever.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Even though I think all of that could be done remotely, Sakurai seems to think that method isn't secure enough for such top secret projects.

My Information Tech Security class would concur; If it communicates with other devices it ain't secure.

Lies. Simon was highly anticipated ever since Mega Man was revealed. Because Captain N is everyone's favorite show ever.

I-I no lie! I was sure!

...Well I was wrong, but I was sure!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A lot of it depends on how long the parties involved are dealing with the coronavirus. If they're still handling this in late 2020, then I do think Nintendo would give serious consideration to finding a different character(s). I don't think they're gonna keep stalling for what could potentially be a single character.

More than likely they'll just push back the character as long as they can until things can resume as normal, but there's always the small possibility of them replacing the character with someone else if too much time goes by without progress.

I'm not saying that's a likely scenario, but because they haven't revealed anyone yet, they can still change plans if need be.

Admit it, you only believe the chance is there because you think a Nintendo character wouldn't get hit by the exact thing despite development as a whole being stopped, meaning that even IF we got a replacement, that the team would have to wait until this all blows over

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

But you don't understand! Dragon warrior and Revelations Persona are obscure games that nobody played!

Wait what? The heck is Revelations: Persona and what does it have to do with the Persona 5 series?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Wait what? The heck is Revelations: Persona and what does it have to do with the Persona 5 series?

Resident Evil Revelations Persona is the game where Jill Valentine boards the cruise ship Zenobia and gains a Persona named Parker, before finding everything overrun by monsters.

 

[Undella2]

Wait what? The heck is Revelations: Persona and what does it have to do with the Persona 5 series?

Though you may be joking here, Persona 1, Persona 2 IS, and Persona 2 EP may as well be a totally different series from Persona 3, Persona 4, and Persona 5 with as much as Atlus treats them like one.

 

[MisterHollywood]

Byleth was a bad pick, they're so uninteresting, and you're telling me that Terry Bogard was a character that many people were talking about? Nobody thought an SNK character was happen, Terry Bogard was only talked about because of the leaks.

The thing is though I have a great time playing all of the characters in the pass. I never cared for Hero, Terry, or Byleth before they got put into smash but now they’re my mains I love playing as them. Even if the picks were questionable (but I thank daddy every day for Joker) I think Sakurai made a good job making these characters fun as hell, which is the real point of these characters, even if a good chunk of smash is the hype the characters bring.