Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Compare this suggested mechanic to every othee gimmick, there's so much extra work needed to make sure Pyra and Mythra can traverse through every stage at a reasonable pace for balance with a specific range, there's just too many ways you can **** it up as this is an idea that NEEDS to work for every stage, you can't have the Blades get stuck on things, they'd be near useless on some of the game's larger stages and you as they'd obviously have to move slower than Rex, they'd get left behind so much easier than say, Nana or the Luma, there are FAR too many variables which no other character had to take into consideration, meaning that's too much effort in trying to make someone work, the only more atrotious mechanic someone's suggested is timed hits based on the music playing in game

Yeah, I think I agree with you for the most part. If implemented correctly, it would enforce some of Xenoblade Chronicles 2's themes mechanically, but if done poorly, Rex will feel awful to play as, and it seems like it would be very easy to do poorly. Instead, I think it would be better if Rex's blades should be a set distance from Rex, and run and jump around as if you were controlling them yourself, but still be in the Z-axis so it's clear that they aren't attackable. If they can't be in the Z-axis, then they should be stuck on a pedestal with the Pokémon Trainer. This way the connection between Rex and his blades can still be more personal without making things not function properly. Pyra and Mythra seem to take damage as Rex does, so I think it would be fine if they were launched alone with him even thought they aren't getting hurt. Alternatively they could just not leave the ledge on stages that really only have one large platform like Battlefield.

EDIT: Well...Maybe not. I'm still waffling on the idea. This is why it takes six months to produce a character. lol

Timed attacks for a rhythm based fighter is not a bad mechanic though. Perhaps the timings shouldn't be rhythmic because it has to work regardless of what song is playing (or if the sound is off), but there aren't really any issues for it so long as it's forgiving enough (like, timing your attacks for a Rhythm Heaven character shouldn't be as difficult as playing Rhythm Heaven). Yeah it could suck online but I doubt it would suck any more than other high execution characters like Sheik or Terry do. Also, I don't think a design should have to fundamentally change because of bad netcode; you should just have good netcode.

 

[PSIGuy]

Background Cheerleader is a terrible idea for a gimmick. Blades don’t fight from way off to the side like a benched sports player, they fight from behind and besides their Driver. When you get into the rhythm they throw out attacks frequently. The most sensible moveset idea to me isn’t focusing on Blade Switching (requiring several movesets for one fighter) or background elements (that require every stage to have programmed run zones among other things). Just take the battle mechanics of different arts - attacks that the Driver does and attacks that the Blade performs - and put them together. Another puppet/duo character.
Ice Climbers is one fighter copy and pasted and put on a delay. Rosalina is one fighter with a unique ‘assist trophy’ that responds to get every move. Rex and Pyra are each 0.5 of a fighter who combined make up a full fighter. Use the visual ether tether as a physical constraint so they don’t get separated. If the specials and smash attacks are all tied to Pyra, let players still attack with Rex if Pyra’s in hitstun. Compared to a regular fighter they still need about double the movement animations but this way isn’t literally double the work of a regular fighter.

I don’t even like XB2, I thought it was terrible. But any fighter idea that revolves around background cheerleading is just too awful to not suggest an alternative.

 

[wynn728]

That begs a new issue, Pokemon Trainer doesn't do anything in the background gameplay wise, so having Pyra or Mythra in the background alongside a gameplay mechanic means you need to answer yourself the following questions. Where do they spawn? Do they walk freely? Do you have to command them to move? What happens on autoscrolling stages? If they can move, how do they move, by walking or flying? How fast do they move? Do you decide to keep them in the Z axis or on the same plane as the other fighters manipulate them in any way? How can you make sure 8 Rex players don't lose track of their Blades? Making them move fast makes the gimmick of them in the background meaningless, but making them slow begs the question on how they work on larger stages. What would the effective range be? I understand my bias can cloud things, but these are just some of the questions Sakurai needs to ask himself when considering something like this

Here's the solution to Rex & Pyra, just have them be together like Joker & Arsene. Move together, attack together, jump together. There you go. Not like it really matters, Rex ain't getting in.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I posted this in the Social as well but this proposition really excites me so I'd like to share it here as well.

Cocky Sony is what put the PS3 so far behind and PS4 got Sony REAL cocky. They're betting on their hardcore fanbase keeping them afloat because they think that a majority of their console owners are hardcore which isn't true. I've always went with Nintendo Forst and Playstation Second since the Gamecube, PS2 era and I've always loved Sony's exclusives but, as a Nintendo fan first Microsoft has won me over with how cool and open they are and have been for a while now. Not only Banjo in Smash but games like Cuphead, Ori, Super Lucky's Tale, and more being on Nintendo makes me think that the Big M and Big N have a promising relationship ahead of them which, honestly, excites me way more than anything Playstation is doing.

Think about it. What if next Switch's architecture, whatever it may be, is frontlined by Microsoft's technology instead of Nvidia. At that point Microsoft would probably be more than happy to share their exclusives with Nintendo even more as well but this also opens up the possibility of the Series X and successive consoles to be a "dock" for the future Switch making it possible to play Nintendo games on Xbox and maybe even PC, and open up the Next Switch as a remote play streaming device for Xbox games that are too powerful to be ported over. This would also make Xbox Live the driving architecture for online which is LEAGUES better than Nintendo's own and could then be used across 3 different platforms and could open the possibility of Game Pass finally becoming exactly what Microsoft wants it to be.

This also has exciting implications for the Next Smash because at the point that Microsoft are so close with Nintendo to be business partners in architecture why would they not share their characters? Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, Conker, Joanna Dark, and more would be on the table for an incredible new line up of Smash characters for a possible Smash Ultimate Deluxe.

Microsoft is the more exciting company this generation and it's all because they're making strides to have a more consumer friendly business model. Playstation is BARELY taking tippy toes in the direction of unifying gamers while Microsoft is all in on it. And Nintendo seems to be a leading force for them.

Yeah, I think there's a 0% chance any of that happens. Nintendo has no reason to agree to such a massive concession in control to Microsoft, they like to keep everything in-house. So I think there's zero chance they suddenly A) decide to use Microsoft architecture B) let Switches use Xboxes as docks C) let Switches play remote play for Xbox

And especially not using Xbox Live and letting Switch dock on PCs. They still use friend codes because that's how scared they are of losing that family-friendly bent, getting Xbox Live is not in their interest. And having their games playable on PC, even if through a Switch, will be a massive blow to the idea that you need to buy a Nintendo console to play their games.

Of the three console makers, Nintendo is the one with the least initiative to get their games on other systems. They probably don't want to go the way of Sega.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When you get into the rhythm they throw out attacks frequently.

Except they don't? They mostly just throw out buffs while their driver does the fighting, and only attack directly when you build up their "super meter", and then activate the super move.

Or maybe I'm just bad at the game. I dunno.
EDIT: Or it could depend on the setup, or your playstyle.

Not like it really matters, Rex ain't getting in.

Doesn't mean their hypothetical mechanics don't make for interesting conversation.

 

[PSIGuy]

Except they don't? They mostly just throw out buffs while their driver does the fighting, and only attack directly when you build up their "super meter", and then activate the super move.

Or maybe I'm just bad at the game. I dunno.
EDIT: Or it could depend on the setup, or your playstyle.

When you chance regular attacks into arts into other arts they build up pretty fast, and chain attacks are just back-to-back specials. They’re not attacks that are thrown out nonstop but they can be uncommon rather than rare. Hence why they would equate to smash attacks and some specials in my proposal.
Mind if Sakurai’s experience differed then the moveset probably wouldn’t be conceived this way. Part of the reason I wouldn’t want Rex in is because I thought he handled Joker poorly despite claiming to love P5.

 

[Seanapotamus]

Oh wait I remember now

there was a thread of 4Smash accounts memeing amongst themselves and some dumbass went and tagged Harada

Yeah I remember when that happened. Quite a bit of people thought certain characters were deconfirmed. Little did they know is that Harada is known for trolling people. One of the tagged accounts that was involved (whose account is now suspended) protected their account for some time. This was the tweet in question:

You guys are a spammer. I talk with Mr.Sakurai & BandaiNamco's Smash development team so that your request will NOT be approved as much as possible.

And *Muted* bye.

@Alberto72892547 @JonesyForSmash @SoraForSmash @DoomSquidKid @PutCrashInSmash @ArleForSmash @HaloGuyForSmash

— Katsuhiro Harada (@Harada_TEKKEN) October 18, 2019

Fortunately, many of the "for Smash" accounts apologized for being involved in it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When you chance regular attacks into arts into other arts they build up pretty fast, and chain attacks are just back-to-back specials. They’re not attacks that are thrown out nonstop but they can be uncommon rather than rare. Hence why they would equate to smash attacks and some specials in my proposal.
Mind if Sakurai’s experience differed then the moveset probably wouldn’t be conceived this way. Part of the reason I wouldn’t want Rex in is because I thought he handled Joker poorly despite claiming to love P5.

True, and I did at least a decent job of filling it up, but your allies are a bit slower in that regard so I think I tended to wait a bit so that they can use their supers and get the big bonus damage & conditions in both normal fighting and during Chain Attacks.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I kinda like your idea of adding the supers to Smash Attacks as you've explained it. It would also allow the other party members to see use in the Final Smash (probably a variant of Chain Attack). The only issue being that Sacred Arrow is way too powerful for a Smash Attack. Also, I do think that Blade switching is important; Rex should be able to swap between Pyra, and Mythra, and that should mean something gameplay wise, however, it would most likely act more like a Monado Art than a Pokémon Switch, so you wouldn't have to worry about making a bunch of different characters for the concept.

How common is the notion that Joker was mishandled I wonder...Very few of the characters introduced in Super Smash Bros. Brawl and onward seem to generate this feeling so I wonder if he's the Sonic or Bowser Jr. of this game.

 

[snowgolem]

So I was bored and decided it would be fun to, instead of making up a moveset for a potential character, fix one for somebody already in the game. Maybe this can potentially help me find something to do in these dry, boring days.

Spoiler: Toon Link

The Hero of Winds. Cell-shaded Link, Wind Waker Link, Toon Link. He goes by several different names, but the thing is I don’t care and I’m calling him Toon Link because it sounds right.
All of Toon Link’s attacks and aerials are fine. I couldn’t care less. The sword attacks are fine. His specials are what’s wrong.
Up special should just be Deku Leaf. Wind under him shoots him up and then he glides down. If an opponent touches the wind, they’ll get shot into Toon Link, which will damage the opponent.
Down special can be the Wind Waker, specifically Wind’s Requiem. It can work similar to Joker’s counter with Arsene, except it can be an attack instead of a counter. If you don’t understand, imagine Toon Link up taunt and then spiky wind.
Side special can be boomerang since that’s important
Neutral special can be bow since that’s important too.
I don’t think the bombs being gone is that bad of a problem, since they’re only really used a couple times for puzzles and other I guess.
I just want the Wind Waker to be more represented than just a taunt. It’s such a huge part of Toon Link’s debut game.
Also replace down taunt with literally anything else. You had so much to work with. Another character, telescope, King of Red Lions, even a Four Swords reference would’ve been really cool. You had two chances to make a decent down taunt and you failed so bad

Thanks for reading if you did

Spoiler: Forgot Final Smash

Why not anything else? All 3 links have Triforce Slash, when there is so much other potential. I’d love to get hit by a ****ing train. Especially if Toon Link is driving it. But you wanna know what would be cool as frick? Three other alternate color Links pop out from behind Toon Link and beat the poop out of you. They can even form a totem and just step on you. And if the player is playing as one of the alts that is in Four Swords, just replace whoever they’re playing as with Green Link. You don’t even have to do that, it wouldn’t be that weird.

Okay now I swear I’m done. Bye

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Haven't played XB2, but everything I've heard about Rex/Pyra makes me imagine the TF2 Heavy with a pocket Medic in Smash, with you controlling them via Ice Climbers.

Spoiler

 

[Deleted member]

Good morning everyone.

Eh, just coming in to say good morning. There is probably nothing special in the discussion right now so...

 

[chocolatejr9]

Haven't played XB2, but everything I've heard about Rex/Pyra makes me imagine the TF2 Heavy with a pocket Medic in Smash, with you controlling them via Ice Climbers.

View attachment 266190

I think we can all use that important life lesson.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Here's the solution to Rex & Pyra, just have them be together like Joker & Arsene.

A better solution is to just not put them in the game. But I guess that works too.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Good morning everyone.

Eh, just coming in to say good morning. There is probably nothing special in the discussion right now so...

There's the possibility we could get FP6 revealed next week just in an Mewtwo/Joker/Terry style reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

There's the possibility we could get FP6 revealed next week just in an Mewtwo/Joker/Terry style reveal.

I know, I know.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

The full article about Sakurai's comments on the Coronavirus has come out.

 

[Deleted member]

One thing that'd be cool for Rex & Pyra is to have them be switchable. Like you can play as Rex, and then press down-b to switch to Pyra who'll have a completely different sword style like Pokemon Trainer. Gluing them together sounds arbitrary and would look awkward for proportional human beings versus Ice Climbers.

I'm not really asking them to be accurate to the games (like how Shulk is just a dude with a lightsaber and buffing skills). Let's be real. Xenoblade 2 combat is slow and is a lot of "build up to ultimate attack and hope it one-shots enemy." I think just making the duo a cool sword stance fighter would be neat and would tie into how the story handles weapon sharing.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

One thing that'd be cool for Rex & Pyra is to have them be switchable. Like you can play as Rex, and then press down-b to switch to Pyra who'll have a completely different sword style like Pokemon Trainer. Gluing them together sounds arbitrary and would look awkward for proportional human beings versus Ice Climbers.

I'm not really asking them to be accurate to the games. Let's be real. Xenoblade 2 combat is slow and is a lot of "build up to ultimate attack and hope it one-shots enemy." I think just making the duo a cool sword stance fighter would be neat and would tie into how the story handles weapon sharing.

would you say Xenoblade X's combat is a bit faster? I'd think so

 

[Deleted member]

would you say Xenoblade X's combat is a bit faster? I'd think so

Never played the game and have no interest in it currently.

 

[Goombaic]

One thing that'd be cool for Rex & Pyra is to have them be switchable. Like you can play as Rex, and then press down-b to switch to Pyra who'll have a completely different sword style like Pokemon Trainer. Gluing them together sounds arbitrary and would look awkward for proportional human beings versus Ice Climbers.

I'm not really asking them to be accurate to the games. Let's be real. Xenoblade 2 combat is slow and is a lot of "build up to ultimate attack and hope it one-shots enemy." I think just making the duo a cool sword stance fighter would be neat and would tie into how the story handles weapon sharing.

I'd rather have Lora and Jin at that point. I really don't like the idea of controlling Pyra and would rather keep it that way in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd rather have Lora and Jin at that point. I really don't like the idea of controlling Pyra and would rather keep it that way in Smash.

Really? I found Pyra standing around holding her arms out in battle to be pretty disappointing from a gameplay standpoint. She can do all of these crazy flips and attacks in cutscenes, but now she's cemented to the floor in game? That's pretty lame for what's essentially the game's mascot character.

Comparatively, Mythra being able to kick all sorts of ass in Torna is badass, and seeing her and Pyra do that in Smash would be sick.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

would you say Xenoblade X's combat is a bit faster? I'd think so

Very much so. The name of the game is build TP, go into overdrive, and do your rotation until they die. Until you hit endgame, then you min max the crap out of your character and one-shot them.

 

[Goombaic]

Really? I found Pyra standing around holding her arms out in battle to be pretty disappointing from a gameplay standpoint. She can do all of these crazy flips and attacks in cutscenes, but now she's cemented to the floor in game? That's pretty lame for what's essentially the game's mascot character.

Comparatively, Mythra being able to kick all sorts of ass in Torna is badass, and seeing her and Pyra do that in Smash would be sick.

To me, it's because Lora and Jin actually use different weapons and do different things. Rex and Pyra would use the same sword, and I don't see how they'd be that different from each other, other than Rex using Anchor Shot.

 

[Deleted member]

To me, it's because Lora and Jin actually use different weapons and do different things. Rex and Pyra would use the same sword, and I don't see how they'd be that different from each other, other than Rex using Anchor Shot.

Good point on the same sword thing. Maybe Rex can be more physical, like using anchor shot or a double spin slash. Maybe even other weapons for his specials like how Byleth uses more the other Three House weapons. Meanwhile Pyra is more elemental and relies on her ability to produce flames. Maybe she can buff herself, shoot fireballs, do a flame dash, etc. The creativity and options are there. Whether that actually happens is another story. I'd just rather it be Rex & Pyra than just Rex, and then Pyra occasionally does a cool move.

 

[SneakyLink]

Y’know who I would want for the zany music alone?
The kid from Atari’s Food Fight.

Spoiler

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

The full article about Sakurai's comments on the Coronavirus has come out.

“In my case, specifically, I was scheduled to give a presentation to a publisher on our plans for a certain new fighter; however the key parties were not able to get together, so it’s been postponed indefinitely. That’s not something I could fix even if I could be in the office the whole time.”

oof

 

[chocolatejr9]

“In my case, specifically, I was scheduled to give a presentation to a publisher on our plans for a certain new fighter; however the key parties were not able to get together, so it’s been postponed indefinitely. That’s not something I could fix even if I could be in the office the whole time.”

rip that fighter

This is gonna make Smash fans work on a cure, isn't it? Just like Canada?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Good point on the same sword thing. Maybe Rex can be more physical, like using anchor shot or a double spin slash. Maybe even other weapons for his specials like how Byleth uses more the other Three House weapons. Meanwhile Pyra is more elemental and relies on her ability to produce flames. Maybe she can buff herself, shoot fireballs, do a flame dash, etc. The creativity and options are there. Whether that actually happens is another story. I'd just rather it be Rex & Pyra than just Rex, and then Pyra occasionally does a cool move.

I would still say that the mechanics fit Lora and Jin better because the whole swapping thing is what separates Torna the Golden Country from vanilla Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Pyra (& Mythra) can still have an active role, but I think the primary character should always be Rex.

rip that fighter

I wouldn't take it out to pasture just yet. It might ensure that the fighter is the sixth character in the Fighters Pass vol. 2, but it could still be brought to fruition.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This is gonna make Smash fans work on a cure, isn't it? Just like Canada?

Who would win:

*A virus that sends the world into lockdown
*Canadians not getting hockey, Irish not getting alcohol, and Smash Fans not getting a DLC fighter

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I would still say that the mechanics fit Lora and Jin better because the whole swapping thing is what separates Torna the Golden Country from vanilla Xenoblade Chronicles 2. Pyra (& Mythra) can still have an active role, but I think the primary character should always be Rex.


I wouldn't take it out to pasture just yet. It might ensure that the fighter is the sixth character in the Fighters Pass vol. 2, but it could still be brought to fruition.

Oh I’m sure it will get made eventually, but still it’s unfortunate that we won’t get to see who it is until a long time from now.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Who would win:

*A virus that sends the world into lockdown
*Canadians not getting hockey, Irish not getting alcohol, and Smash Fans not getting a DLC fighter

One is a deadly force of nature, destined to wipe out all of mankind should it so please.

The other is a virus.

(P.S. This is meant to be a joke. I know the virus is a VERY big deal, but if I can make SOMEONE laugh in these times, then I can at least feel better.)

 

[snowgolem]

So one of the fighters was either pushed to last or cancelled.
With my luck it was probably Waluigi.
Except no, because Covid wouldn’t affect that since they said it was due to communication problems.
With my luck it was probably Kinect Adventures Avatar

 

[Hadokeyblade]

“In my case, specifically, I was scheduled to give a presentation to a publisher on our plans for a certain new fighter; however the key parties were not able to get together, so it’s been postponed indefinitely. That’s not something I could fix even if I could be in the office the whole time.”

rip that fighter

I guess another Nintendo character is now on the table, eh?

One is a deadly force of nature, destined to wipe out all of mankind should it so please.

The other is a virus.

(P.S. This is meant to be a joke. I know the virus is a VERY big deal, but if I can make SOMEONE laugh in these times, then I can at least feel better.)

You do NOT want to mess with an angry Irish man.

 

[Deleted member]

I would still say that the mechanics fit Lora and Jin better because the whole swapping thing is what separates Torna the Golden Country from vanilla Xenoblade Chronicles 2.

I mean true, but I also don't really like Lora and Jin, but I like Torna's gameplay more. Kind of a best of both worlds for me lol.

 

[snowgolem]

Imagine being a game company and being told your character is being heavily considered for one of the largest crossovers in video game history, and this can heavily promote that game and get tons of sales.
And then a virus comes in and Sakurai stops replying to your DMs

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

As far as I know no one has harassed Sakurai to work during these times , but I hope not.

 

[Cosmic77]

I pray that we never find out who that cancelled character was, because imagine how crazy the fanbase for that character would be for however many years until the next Smash game.

"And Geno was orginally going to be part of the second pass, but due to certain parties being exposed to the coronavirus, we were unable to..."

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I pray that we never find out who that cancelled character was, because imagine how crazy the fanbase for that character would be for however many years until the next Smash game.

"And Geno was orginally going to be part of the second pass, but due to certain parties being exposed to the coronavirus, we were unable to..."

I mean if they're not doing the what Dalek posted above I doubt they'll ever do that tbh.

 

[snowgolem]

I pray that we never find out who that cancelled character was, because imagine how crazy the fanbase for that character would be for however many years until the next Smash game.

"And Geno was orginally going to be part of the second pass, but due to certain parties being exposed to the coronavirus, we were unable to..."

Maybe it was a character who they already started a tiny bit of work on, and they’ll bring it back as a stand-alone.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'm confused. I saw the translated column on Twitter and there it sounds like all fighters have been indefinitely postponed but Nintendo everything translated it to be just one character.

Unfortunately, the virus has been restricting Sakurai’s business trips. For example, trips to Nintendo in Kyoto. Trips to other companies have been problematic too. Planning new fighters, presenting to publishers, and having meetings have all been indefinitely postponed. pic.twitter.com/dKK95gEPVy

— Kody NOKOLO (@KodyNOKOLO) March 18, 2020