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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Rie Sonomura

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Sakurai came out and said that Rex and Pyra were too late for consideration, so they made them Mii Costumes. That may not be the case for Fighter's Pass 2, though. Once they saw it was popular to make another one, there's a chance that Rex & Pyra will be back up for consideration.
Just Rex. He’s the costume. Pyra’s a Spirit. And what about Spring Man? I recall some sort of apology when he was revealed as an Assist Trophy

also idk if Isaac was considered for playable or not but I can see him making Smash 6 with how much backlash the return of his AT got, like with Waluigi
 
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With this period of news drought, I decided to ask my insider contacttm for info on Fighter Pass 2:

20200318_180854.jpg


He's still trying to find who each Fighter will be.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Why would they not be together as a fighter?
Rex’s costume has Pyra’s sword if anything

but I kinda think mechanics were involved there also, I don’t see Xenoblade 2’s Blade System translating well to Smash. It’s way more complex than Pokémon Trainer’s switching mechanic I’d think
 

Cosmic77

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I don't think the Blade System in XC2 would be as difficult for Sakurai as we think it would be. He tends to have really simple solutions to things like that.

For example, I thought Inkling's mechanic of having to spray the ground with ink to swim in squid form would be really difficult to add in Smash. In the end, Sakurai just made it the running animation. Even when there isn't any ink on the ground, you can still swim around.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Rex’s costume has Pyra’s sword if anything

but I kinda think mechanics were involved there also, I don’t see Xenoblade 2’s Blade System translating well to Smash. It’s way more complex than Pokémon Trainer’s switching mechanic I’d think
Not really. Pyra and Mythra give Rex the same weapon type, so the only thing that would change when swapping them would be Rex's attributes, and probably his Final Smash. You could give him Roc and Wulfric (or perhaps Dromarch and Poppi to play around with spoilery abilities) to vary up his playstyle with different movesets, but I think that's ultimately unnecessary. It'd also be weird to see #76-79: Rex (& Pyra/Mythra | & Roc | & Wulfric) on the official site nor do I think the character is big enough to take up three character slots development wise.
 

KneeOfJustice99

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Rex’s costume has Pyra’s sword if anything

but I kinda think mechanics were involved there also, I don’t see Xenoblade 2’s Blade System translating well to Smash. It’s way more complex than Pokémon Trainer’s switching mechanic I’d think
I guess Sakurai could slightly alter this? I'll admit, I've not played XC2, but look at how Arsene (Joker) is shown. It's not exactly how he was in his source material, but works pretty well in a different, effectively altered way. Speaking of Pokémon Trainer, even that famous down-B is an example of altering the source material slightly - to make it work better in Smash (as it ditches the UI and such.) I guess this could possibly be the same case?
 

Guynamednelson

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I thought Inkling's mechanic of having to spray the ground with ink to swim in squid form would be really difficult to add in Smash
It was the application of ink to fighters that was difficult however, as a ton of models have mask textures that help the game know how ink should be applied.
 

Rie Sonomura

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It was the application of ink to fighters that was difficult however, as a ton of models have mask textures that help the game know how ink should be applied.
And it was too much for the 3DS, and if it’s a no go on 3DS it would be a no go on Wii U, hence why Inkling wasn’t a DLC Fighter in 4 (Mii Costume and Trophy)
 

Curious Villager

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I think the whole Waluigi thing was about Reggie relaying the response to his disconfirmation to Sakurai or something along those lines.
I don't recall Sakurai ever responding to the Waluigi backlash himself though... (Asides from blocking a couple morons on Twitter I suppose..)
 
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chocolatejr9

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I think the whole Waluigi thing was about Reggie relaying the response to his disconfirmation to Sakurai or something along those lines.
I don't recall Sakurai ever responding to the Waluigi backlash himself though...
The closest to a response was him blocking people on Twitter, right?
 

Goombaic

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Rex’s costume has Pyra’s sword if anything

but I kinda think mechanics were involved there also, I don’t see Xenoblade 2’s Blade System translating well to Smash. It’s way more complex than Pokémon Trainer’s switching mechanic I’d think
What would be so complex about it? Rex would function as a normal fighter and Pyra would be in the background like the Pokemon Trainer and make Rex's attacks more effective as long as he's in her range. He doesn't need other blades, but if he did have more, I doubt they'd limit how often he can switch, they'd just have it function as Pokemon Trainer's switch.
 

Michael the Spikester

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What would be so complex about it? Rex would function as a normal fighter and Pyra would be in the background like the Pokemon Trainer and make Rex's attacks more effective as long as he's in her range. He doesn't need other blades, but if he did have more, I doubt they'd limit how often he can switch, they'd just have it function as Pokemon Trainer's switch.
Could even throw Mythra and Nia in there as well akin to:ultsquirtle::ultivysaur:and:ultcharizard:
 
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ShrimpScampi

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Let’s play a game. What are some gimmick ideas for potential characters for DLC? They don’t have to be realistic characters. I’ll start.

-Phoenix Wright: sort of similar to his gimmick in MvC, but whatever. The more he is attacked, the more his evidence meter goes up. If he is hit while using his down B, then the opponent’s weapon will fall to the ground (for either of them to pick up. If the opponent picks it up, nothing changes. If Phoenix picks it up, then he can use it as evidence, boosting his evidence meter tremendously. This meter is similar to waft, but with Phoenix’s neutral B. (It’s Objection, if that wasn’t obvious.) if the opponent doesn’t have an item and hits Phoenix in his down B, they’ll just charge his meter directly.
One counter variant that I thought would be interesting would be a move-binding one, where if you land it against a move the opponent can't use that move for a brief period of time (limit to 1 bound move per player at any given point). I have no idea how it would work in terms of game balance though, and not everything you can counter is a bindable move, but it's a kinda neat idea. In terms of characters to use it, I thought maybe Phoenix could hold out his Magatama and if he lands the counter, the opponent gets a Psyche-Lock that binds that move briefly. It's the opposite of how the Magatama works in the games, though -- it removes Psyche-Locks instead of adding them. Idk who would be a better fit for that though
 

Rie Sonomura

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What would be so complex about it? Rex would function as a normal fighter and Pyra would be in the background like the Pokemon Trainer and make Rex's attacks more effective as long as he's in her range. He doesn't need other blades, but if he did have more, I doubt they'd limit how often he can switch, they'd just have it function as Pokemon Trainer's switch.
The weapon can be passed back to the Blade for special attacks, and that also raises the question of what if Rex or the Blade were KO’d, who would be left standing or would they both go

also Michael the Spikester Michael the Spikester mark your spoilers please
 

Goombaic

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The weapon can be passed back to the Blade for special attacks, and that also raises the question of what if Rex or the Blade were KO’d, who would be left standing or would they both go

also Michael the Spikester Michael the Spikester mark your spoilers please
The blade shouldn't be able to be damaged, whether they're in the background or the foreground. That's how they function in game and how they should function in Smash (Yes, Rex and Pyra do have that connection of "If I get killed, you get killed," but I think they'd take liberties there). If the Blade specials were in the moveset and Rex tried to use them far away from his blade, it would just be what happens when an Ice Climber tries to recover without the other, miserable failure. As long as Rex is in range of his blade, he would be able to use the Blade special.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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The weapon can be passed back to the Blade for special attacks, and that also raises the question of what if Rex or the Blade were KO’d, who would be left standing or would they both go

also Michael the Spikester Michael the Spikester mark your spoilers please
I think each Blade's special attacks should be Rex's Final Smashes. That way you wouldn't have to deal with the logistics of tossing weapons around. Pyra would give Rex Burning Sword, and Mythra would give Sacred Arrow (you could also make it Lightning Buster or something instead for indoor, or otherwise rickety locations, though that would likely be too confusing). Each blade weapon gives you four Arts, so you wouldn't have to worry about not having enough for the base moveset, especially if one is devoted to switching blades.

With Pyra or Mythra, I'd give Rex access to Anchor Shot, Rolling Smash, and Double Spinning Edge. Sword Bash would be his Forward Smash. You could also have Pyra and Mythra swap out one of the arts (likely the Side Special) for another one if you so chose.
 

Cutie Gwen

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What would be so complex about it? Rex would function as a normal fighter and Pyra would be in the background like the Pokemon Trainer and make Rex's attacks more effective as long as he's in her range. He doesn't need other blades, but if he did have more, I doubt they'd limit how often he can switch, they'd just have it function as Pokemon Trainer's switch.
That begs a new issue, Pokemon Trainer doesn't do anything in the background gameplay wise, so having Pyra or Mythra in the background alongside a gameplay mechanic means you need to answer yourself the following questions. Where do they spawn? Do they walk freely? Do you have to command them to move? What happens on autoscrolling stages? If they can move, how do they move, by walking or flying? How fast do they move? Do you decide to keep them in the Z axis or on the same plane as the other fighters manipulate them in any way? How can you make sure 8 Rex players don't lose track of their Blades? Making them move fast makes the gimmick of them in the background meaningless, but making them slow begs the question on how they work on larger stages. What would the effective range be? I understand my bias can cloud things, but these are just some of the questions Sakurai needs to ask himself when considering something like this
 

Rie Sonomura

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That reminds me

What are people's opinions on Harada's freakout on twitter when he said he'd do whatever he could to not have Heihachi in Smash?
Uh... what?

I only recall him shutting down ppl begging for (insert character here) for Smash
 

osby

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That reminds me

What are people's opinions on Harada's freakout on twitter when he said he'd do whatever he could to not have Heihachi in Smash?
I don't remember him doing anything like that.

Since people put words into creators' mouths all the time: citation needed.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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That begs a new issue, Pokemon Trainer doesn't do anything in the background gameplay wise, so having Pyra or Mythra in the background alongside a gameplay mechanic means you need to answer yourself the following questions. Where do they spawn? Do they walk freely? Do you have to command them to move? What happens on autoscrolling stages? If they can move, how do they move, by walking or flying? How fast do they move? Do you decide to keep them in the Z axis or on the same plane as the other fighters manipulate them in any way? How can you make sure 8 Rex players don't lose track of their Blades? Making them move fast makes the gimmick of them in the background meaningless, but making them slow begs the question on how they work on larger stages. What would the effective range be? I understand my bias can cloud things, but these are just some of the questions Sakurai needs to ask himself when considering something like this
Answering in order asked:

Right next to Rex. Yes. No. They move with the stage. They walk, run, and jump (I don't think any of them can fly). They can keep up with Rex as he walks, but will start to lag behind if you run across the stage. They should probably stay on the Z-axis so they aren't as distracting. Give them pallet swaps as well, and make their link beam a different color. They'll need a sweetspot where you can outrun them but don't immediately leave them in the dust, and should they shouldn't be able to fall down any holes or anything. I can't get that specific without actually developing the character but for a ballpark I'd say about the width of one of Battlefield's platforms.

These are all incredibly valid questions that need to be asked if you're going to implement a mechanic correctly. There are a few that I don't have the answer to. Like, what happens if the stage doesn't have a Z-axis? What about stages without enough of a background for them to stand on? How do you keep them from falling into pits? How do they get back to you if you get too far away? Will color coordinating the pallet swaps be enough? What does the proximity mechanic even do? Do we even need it or is trying to throw in there to stay so 1 to 1 hurting the character from a design standpoint?
 
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Garteam

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That reminds me

What are people's opinions on Harada's freakout on twitter when he said he'd do whatever he could to not have Heihachi in Smash?
I don't believe he said he'd tried not to get Heihachi in Smash, he was just pissed because he was being spammed on Twitter by a bunch of "X for Smash" accounts.

Regardless, I really don't think it would impact Heihachi's chances. Assuming he was being 100% serious, he later said that night that he likes hearing fan requests and knows that 99.99% of people are respectful in how they go about requesting things, but sometimes that .01% needs to be addressed.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Answering in order asked:

Right next to Rex. Yes. No. They move with the stage. They walk, run, and jump (I don't think any of them can fly). They can keep up with Rex as he walks, but will start to lag behind if you run across the stage. They should probably stay on the Z-axis so they aren't as distracting. Give them pallet swaps as well, and make their link beam a different color. They'll need a sweetspot where you can outrun them but don't immediately leave them in the dust, and should they shouldn't be able to fall down any holes or anything. I can't get that specific without actually developing the character but for a ballpark I'd say about the width of one of Battlefield's platforms.

These are all incredibly valid questions that need to be asked if you're going to implement a mechanic correctly. There are a few that I don't have the answer to. Like, what happens if the stage doesn't have a Z-axis? What about stages without enough of a background for them to stand on? How do you keep them from falling into pits? How do they get back to you if you get too far away? Will color coordinating the pallet swaps be enough? What does the proximity mechanic even do? Do we even need it or is trying to throw in there to stay so 1 to 1 hurting the character from a design standpoint?
This is why I say this is an awful potential mechanic, Sakurai's shown we can get more new mechanics but every gimmick Smash's implemented for it's newcomers has been significantly more straightforward and easier to understand
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I posted this in the Social as well but this proposition really excites me so I'd like to share it here as well.

Cocky Sony is what put the PS3 so far behind and PS4 got Sony REAL cocky. They're betting on their hardcore fanbase keeping them afloat because they think that a majority of their console owners are hardcore which isn't true. I've always went with Nintendo Forst and Playstation Second since the Gamecube, PS2 era and I've always loved Sony's exclusives but, as a Nintendo fan first Microsoft has won me over with how cool and open they are and have been for a while now. Not only Banjo in Smash but games like Cuphead, Ori, Super Lucky's Tale, and more being on Nintendo makes me think that the Big M and Big N have a promising relationship ahead of them which, honestly, excites me way more than anything Playstation is doing.

Think about it. What if next Switch's architecture, whatever it may be, is frontlined by Microsoft's technology instead of Nvidia. At that point Microsoft would probably be more than happy to share their exclusives with Nintendo even more as well but this also opens up the possibility of the Series X and successive consoles to be a "dock" for the future Switch making it possible to play Nintendo games on Xbox and maybe even PC, and open up the Next Switch as a remote play streaming device for Xbox games that are too powerful to be ported over. This would also make Xbox Live the driving architecture for online which is LEAGUES better than Nintendo's own and could then be used across 3 different platforms and could open the possibility of Game Pass finally becoming exactly what Microsoft wants it to be.

This also has exciting implications for the Next Smash because at the point that Microsoft are so close with Nintendo to be business partners in architecture why would they not share their characters? Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, Conker, Joanna Dark, and more would be on the table for an incredible new line up of Smash characters for a possible Smash Ultimate Deluxe.

Microsoft is the more exciting company this generation and it's all because they're making strides to have a more consumer friendly business model. Playstation is BARELY taking tippy toes in the direction of unifying gamers while Microsoft is all in on it. And Nintendo seems to be a leading force for them.
 
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smashkirby

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Dude, can I live in your dreams?
Alongside the Adventure Mode expansion reveal I dreamt, some details I left out in my last post (because I KNOW you all would start to wonder how a Direct drought could affect someone this much) were that:
- Roy comes across Little Birdie in DREAM LAND somehow and (I kid you not) keeps him around as a pet, not knowing his true identity
- Mewtwo discusses the safety of the Nintendo multiverse with Zelda, Pit, Palutena, and Lucario
- Porky kidnaps a few Smashers and forces and Sprits and forces them to attack Olimar, Alph, Pichu and Spiky-Eared Pichu
- Wario (for whatever reason) was in front of a surprised Pikachu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, Red, Leaf, Blue, Cynthia, Lance, Steven, Lucy, and a few others (Not sure what was going on, although that set-up did vaguely look a bit like 'that' scene from Brawl's E3 2006 reveal trailer...)
- Ness and Lucas took down what appeared to be Galeem-created clones of both of their families (Ness' dad? The phone. The freakin' phone.)
 

chocolatejr9

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I posted this in the Social as well but this proposition really excites me so I'd like to share it here as well.

Cocky Sony is what put the PS3 so far behind and PS4 got Sony REAL cocky. They're betting on their hardcore fanbase keeping them afloat because they think that a majority of their console owners are hardcore which isn't true. I've always went with Nintendo Forst and Playstation Second since the Gamecube, PS2 era and I've always loved Sony's exclusives but, as a Nintendo fan first Microsoft has won me over with how cool and open they are and have been for a while now. Not only Banjo in Smash but games like Cuphead, Ori, Super Lucky's Tale, and more being on Nintendo makes me think that the Big M and Big N have a promising relationship ahead of them which, honestly, excites me way more than anything Playstation is doing.

Think about it. What if next Switch's architecture, whatever it may be, is frontlined by Microsoft's technology instead of Nvidia. At that point Microsoft would probably be more than happy to share their exclusives with Nintendo even more as well but this also opens up the possibility of the Series X and successive consoles to be a "dock" for the future Switch making it possible to play Nintendo games on Xbox and maybe even PC, and open up the Next Switch as a remote play streaming device for Xbox games that are too powerful to be ported over. This would also make Xbox Live the driving architecture for online which is LEAGUES better than Nintendo's own and could then be used across 3 different platforms and could open the possibility of Game Pass finally becoming exactly what Microsoft wants it to be.

This also has exciting implications for the Next Smash because at the point that Microsoft are so close with Nintendo to be business partners in architecture why would they not share their characters? Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, Conker, Joanna Dark, and more would be on the table for an incredible new line up of Smash characters for a possible Smash Ultimate Deluxe.

Microsoft is the more exciting company this generation and it's all because they're making strides to have a more consumer friendly business model. Playstation is BARELY taking tippy toes in the direction of unifying gamers while Microsoft is all in on it. And Nintendo seems to be a leading force for them.
Well... I don't know if it'll go THAT far. But I did hear once that, way back in the day, Microsoft actually wanted to buy Nintendo outright. Clearly, that didn't pan out, but it is interesting to see how their relationship has improved.
 

zeldasmash

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I posted this in the Social as well but this proposition really excites me so I'd like to share it here as well.

Cocky Sony is what put the PS3 so far behind and PS4 got Sony REAL cocky. They're betting on their hardcore fanbase keeping them afloat because they think that a majority of their console owners are hardcore which isn't true.
This is the same mentality that bit Nintendo in the ass hard with the Wii U. Wii had 100+ million in sales so that means most will come back, right? Well, the Wii U numbers spoke for themselves. If Sony continues to be this cocky with the PS5, they might have another PS3 situation and it likely won't have the comeback factor the PS3 ultimately had. None of us wants a Sony console to fail, but arrogance bites them hard when it gets to their head so much (look at PS3 which took an entire generation for it to make a comeback).
 

HansShotFirst20

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I don't believe he said he'd tried not to get Heihachi in Smash, he was just pissed because he was being spammed on Twitter by a bunch of "X for Smash" accounts.

Regardless, I really don't think it would impact Heihachi's chances. Assuming he was being 100% serious, he later said that night that he likes hearing fan requests and knows that 99.99% of people are respectful in how they go about requesting things, but sometimes that .01% needs to be addressed.
eeehh I wouldn't say it's 99.99% to 1% respectful/disrespectful -- more like 50/50
 

Goombaic

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This is why I say this is an awful potential mechanic, Sakurai's shown we can get more new mechanics but every gimmick Smash's implemented for it's newcomers has been significantly more straightforward and easier to understand
It really isn't that complicated, though? The blade follows you around and you're stronger when you're close to it. The specifics may make it sound complicated but visually, it's pretty straightforward.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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This is why I say this is an awful potential mechanic, Sakurai's shown we can get more new mechanics but every gimmick Smash's implemented for it's newcomers has been significantly more straightforward and easier to understand
It would probably be decently easy to understand from the player's perspective (don't run around like a crazy person), there are a ton of minute details that go into making it function. Assuming it did function, I see it having some positives and negatives:

+It would reinforce the idea that you fight with your blades since you can't just ignore them and do whatever you want (something Rex sometimes gets chastised for).
-Movement limitations don't tend to go over well in platform fighters so it might limit Rex more than it should, especially if handled poorly.
-Super casuals may not make the connection that running away from the girl makes you weak. If Rex is too weak on his own but strong near a blade then they'll just assume he's inconsistent.

- Ness and Lucas took down what appeared to be Galeem-created clones of both of their families (Ness' dad? The phone. The freakin' phone.)
Wait. Galeem and Dharkon can only make clones of fighters...

Ness's Dad Phones in!
 

Cutie Gwen

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It really isn't that complicated, though? The blade follows you around and you're stronger when you're close to it. The specifics may make it sound complicated but visually, it's pretty straightforward.
Compare this suggested mechanic to every othee gimmick, there's so much extra work needed to make sure Pyra and Mythra can traverse through every stage at a reasonable pace for balance with a specific range, there's just too many ways you can **** it up as this is an idea that NEEDS to work for every stage, you can't have the Blades get stuck on things, they'd be near useless on some of the game's larger stages and you as they'd obviously have to move slower than Rex, they'd get left behind so much easier than say, Nana or the Luma, there are FAR too many variables which no other character had to take into consideration, meaning that's too much effort in trying to make someone work, the only more atrotious mechanic someone's suggested is timed hits based on the music playing in game
 

Rie Sonomura

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I don't believe he said he'd tried not to get Heihachi in Smash, he was just pissed because he was being spammed on Twitter by a bunch of "X for Smash" accounts.

Regardless, I really don't think it would impact Heihachi's chances. Assuming he was being 100% serious, he later said that night that he likes hearing fan requests and knows that 99.99% of people are respectful in how they go about requesting things, but sometimes that .01% needs to be addressed.
Oh wait I remember now

there was a thread of 4Smash accounts memeing amongst themselves and some dumbass went and tagged Harada
 

Goombaic

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Compare this suggested mechanic to every othee gimmick, there's so much extra work needed to make sure Pyra and Mythra can traverse through every stage at a reasonable pace for balance with a specific range, there's just too many ways you can **** it up as this is an idea that NEEDS to work for every stage, you can't have the Blades get stuck on things, they'd be near useless on some of the game's larger stages and you as they'd obviously have to move slower than Rex, they'd get left behind so much easier than say, Nana or the Luma, there are FAR too many variables which no other character had to take into consideration, meaning that's too much effort in trying to make someone work, the only more atrotious mechanic someone's suggested is timed hits based on the music playing in game
I think having Pyra follow you around at a slower pace and warping when it's absolutely impossible for her to get to you should work in every stage without complicating things. Have whatever button/command that activates the Blade special act as a recall whenever they aren't in range if that isn't enough. It'd leave you open for a big attack so that it doesn't make waiting for the blade redundant.

What I envision for Rex and Pyra is clearly not what anyone else envisions so I don't think I'm going anywhere with this.
 
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