Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MarioRaccoon]

Crash N'Sane Trilogy has sold more than 10 millon copies, so I think that Crash is still very relevant and popular nowdays. His appearence in Smash would be very very big, the scenario of the 3 90's mascots (Mario, Sonic and Crash) in one game is something that would seem impossible a few years back.

So yeah, as they said above, Crash, Sora and/or Master Chief are the one that would be "Megaton" announcements. I hope that at least one of them is part of FP2.

 

[MagnesD3]

Make that the Big 4. I'd throw Steve in there too.

Is Steve really that big though in the gaming community? I know Minecraft is but I have never heard of Steve love or talk on the same level, it’s always been about repping Minecraft more than anything from my understanding. I mean he’s just an avatar character from my understanding.

 

[RandomAce]

Let me toss in a hypothetical to gauge reactions.

We get a Pokémon in the Fighter Pass, but it's NOT a Galar Pokémon. Instead, it's an older Pokémon that's recently gotten quite a bit of promotion, and would actually be a spirit promotion: Gengar.

It currently has a sizable role in the anime, having had a small recurring role before being caught by Ash (similar to Litten), and has remained one of the single most popular Pokémon after all these years (getting tenth place in the 2020 Pokémon poll, and outranking every Kanto Mon besides Charizard...yes, even beating Pikachu and Mewtwo).

Assume Gengar got in. How would you feel?

Eh, kind of disappointed.

Admittedly, I don’t know much about Gengar, but I feel that if we were to get an older Pokémon, only for it to be from Gen 1 again, I would be pretty bummed out. I’d rather have a Pokémon from a Gen with less characters (or none) instead.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Eh, kind of disappointed.

Admittedly, I don’t know much about Gengar, but I feel that if we were to get an older Pokémon, only for it to be from Gen 1 again, I would be pretty bummed out. I’d rather have a Pokémon from a Gen with less characters (or none) instead.

I'm kinda past caring about which Gen/game whatever Pokemon they add is from; Pokemon has so many cool characters (Pokemon or otherwise), that I'd be happy with pretty much anything they pick, as long as it plays well

 

[DarthEnderX]

Anyone got obscure weirdo characters they'd want, even if you know it won't happen.

Is Kunio obscure? Seems like he is sometimes. Or at least, people recognize the character's sprite, but not his name. And since he's a recent Spirit addition, I know he won't happen in Ultimate.

Dante became a speculation frontrunner in 2018

That...never happened.

Except that Dracula is Castlevania's incarnation not the entire character as an whole.

And also public domain.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I’d replace Kratos with Crash and you got it. Crash, Sora and Master Chief are the new big 3 imo. All of them would make huge waves.

I actually would exclude Master Chief from this list if we're talking worldwide appeal. I think Steve would fit on this list, as well as a League of Legends and World of Warcraft character. The audience for the latter two series probably don't intersect much with Super Smash Bros.'s audience though.

If we're talking just generally large characters though, I'd put Kratos back on the list, and add Scorpion.
EDIT: Doom's protagonist probably fits there as well.

That...never happened.

It happened just before Byleth's reveal because people jumped to conclusions.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Happy Birthday to Terry Bogard and Sakura Kasugano (Street Fighter)!

Happy Birthday to Sakura and Terry! pic.twitter.com/G6m8dHEWLM

— Digi (@NoponDigi) March 15, 2020

 

[DarthEnderX]

It happened just before Byleth's reveal because people jumped to conclusions.

Yes, which is why I made sure to keep in the 2018 part, because it never happened in 2018.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is Kunio obscure? Seems like he is sometimes. Or at least, people recognize the character's sprite, but not his name. And since he's a recent Spirit addition, I know he won't happen in Ultimate.

That...never happened.

And also public domain.

2018 had the 'follow up' from the DMCV leaker, which made Dante a frontrunner for a while

 

[MagnesD3]

I actually would exclude Master Chief from this list if we're talking worldwide appeal. I think Steve would fit on this list, as well as a League of Legends and World of Warcraft character. The audience for the latter two series probably don't intersect much with Super Smash Bros.'s audience though.

If we're talking just generally large characters though, I'd put Kratos back on the list, and add Scorpion.
EDIT: Doom's protagonist probably fits there as well.


It happened just before Byleth's reveal because people jumped to conclusions.

I’d argue Chief has worldwide appeal just not much in Japan. Also the US is kinda the biggest or close to the biggest player when it comes to gaming on the whole and Chief is about as Iconic as it gets for a video game character here.

 

[DarthEnderX]

2018 had the 'follow up' from the DMCV leaker, which made Dante a frontrunner for a while

No, I remember, I was there. But unless you consider "frontrunner" to just mean "not totally slept on", Dante was never a frontrunner until, as SMAASH! Puppy said, the runup to the Byleth reveal.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yes, which is why I made sure to keep in the 2018 part, because it never happened in 2018.

Oops. That's what I get for not paying attention and assuming 2018 = last year.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Considering the circumstances, I think it's a bit silly to at least not see Dante as in "A good spot" to be picked for the roster.

Yes, I'm a big fan of the character. But I do think what Gwen is saying makes sense. DMC was ported to Switch after an interview that specifically denotes porting the series to Switch in the context of "Dante in Smash". While it's certainly possible that Smash was never suggested in the talks to get DMC to Switch, I think it's...well, interesting to act as though none of that matters when the Smash fanbase itself entertains much more convoluted conspiracy theories regarding characters folks want.

I think he's in good standing. He's not a lock, but he's in good standing.

It's anecdotal in mentioning it, but out of many people who don't follow Smash in the way we do, as my friends know that I am a diehard Smash fan, they basically say, "Dante when?" He's the type of pick that just...makes sense in regard to the industry as a whole. He's flashy and works well in a fighting game, and with his series getting a new breath of life in it, it just makes a whole lot of sense.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Video games are pretty cool. Anyone got obscure weirdo characters they'd want, even if you know it won't happen. I obviously got major/mainstream stuff I'd like to see.

It'd be kind of cool to see Raziel actually be remembered in some fashion again. He's got a really cool design. Though I'm not sure how the soul absorption mechanic would play out. Unless he makes enemies drop a specific resource he can absorb.

My obscure weirdo character would be the Kusagari from Red Steel 2, probably the best 3rd party game that took advantage of the Wii’s motion control

Samurai are cool, cowboys are cool, mix em’ together to get a pretty badass character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, I remember, I was there. But unless you consider "frontrunner" to just mean "not totally slept on", Dante was never a frontrunner until, as SMAASH! Puppy said, the runup to the Byleth reveal.

I disagree as again, that caused Dante's Smash popularity to explode and get Capcom to talk about it by way of "oh **** I never considered that! That'd be great!"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Samurai are cool, cowboys are cool, mix em’ together to get a pretty badass character.

Certainly seems that way. Dang that's a cool character design!

 

[Lamperouge]

While 2B or Geno are probably seen as the "most likely" choices for a new Square rep (I lean more towards the former since spirit upgrades are uncertain ATM), I'd honestly love to see a character from Bravely Default after having finished the game recently.

Hell, I'd settle for Mii costumes if they come bundled with some of the soundtrack.

 

[Cosmic77]

Unless we start looking at possible Echoes, I don't think Genger or any Pokemon who isn't from the current Gen will have a very good chance of getting in Smash. It seems like Sakurai, Nintendo, Game Freak, and whoever else gets involved in the decision process prefers choosing from the pool of characters from the latest game rather than old favorites.

It's not impossible, but I think the odds of it happening are just as high as Lyn getting added over the avatar of the next FE game.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wasn't 2B last I recall soft deconfirmed given Sakurai not having any interaction with the creator?

Also Geno I'm not seeing at this point as he's not as big as made out to be the fandom makes him. I expect the Mii costume treatment again.

 

[Megadoomer]

Video games are pretty cool. Anyone got obscure weirdo characters they'd want, even if you know it won't happen. I obviously got major/mainstream stuff I'd like to see.

It'd be kind of cool to see Raziel actually be remembered in some fashion again. He's got a really cool design. Though I'm not sure how the soul absorption mechanic would play out. Unless he makes enemies drop a specific resource he can absorb.

I know that the developer is long gone and Nintendo only seems to renew the trademark in order to hang on to the property, but screw it, I'd like to see a character from Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem in the game.

Whether it's Alexandra Roivas or Pious Augustus (there are other playable characters, but seeing as those two are the main playable character and the main villain, respectively, I figure they're the most likely - Pious has the more memorable design, but he's also a rotting skeleton using a human spine as a staff, so I don't know if Nintendo would be fine with putting Mario up against that), I'd be fine with either one.

I don't play much in the way of horror games (I VASTLY prefer Resident Evil 4 and 5 over the RE1 remake), but I enjoyed Eternal Darkness enough to play through it twice. (it helps that you almost always have recovery magic on hand) The game's magic system seems like it would work well with a slow, deliberate playstyle without involving something like inventory management, and the potential stages (especially the stage hazards) would be incredible. (I'd love to see what the development team could do with ED's style of insanity effects - obviously, it wouldn't be competitive-friendly, but that's not my concern)

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

KneeOfJustice99 , how's your moveset for the Wiimote going? (Can't wait to see it soon.)

It's going pretty well! At the moment, I'm trying to work out whether certain peripherals would work as part of the moveset, such as the Nunchuk, Wiimote Steering Wheel and Balance Board.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Wasn't 2B last I recall soft deconfirmed given Sakurai not having any interaction with the creator?

Also Geno I'm not seeing at this point as he's not as big as made out to be the fandom makes him. I expect the Mii costume treatment again.

It's not as black and white as folks made it out to be.

When Sakurai met with Square Enix about Hero, he met with producers and developers, not writers. This makes sense, because there isn't a story to follow with the characters in Smash, but the gameplay.

If Sakurai had already met for 2B, it would likely be the same scenario.

At the very least (and yes, I understand that I am likely viewed as a 2B supporter and some might cast me as biased for that) I think we'd need more information on that to take a more definitive stance.

 

[toonito]

Let me toss in a hypothetical to gauge reactions.

We get a Pokémon in the Fighter Pass, but it's NOT a Galar Pokémon. Instead, it's an older Pokémon that's recently gotten quite a bit of promotion, and would actually be a spirit promotion: Gengar.

It currently has a sizable role in the anime, having had a small recurring role before being caught by Ash (similar to Litten), and has remained one of the single most popular Pokémon after all these years (getting tenth place in the 2020 Pokémon poll, and outranking every Kanto Mon besides Charizard...yes, even beating Pikachu and Mewtwo).

Assume Gengar got in. How would you feel?

it'd be okay even tho i'd prefer 3rd party characters at this point

reactions as a whole would be mixed: some would be happy that a non-starter pokemon became playable (last time was brawl w/ lucario), some would be meh to it (got the pokemon spot outta the way), some would be mad (NO MOAR KANTOOOOOOOO)

 

[HansShotFirst20]

My obscure weirdo character would be the Kusagari from Red Steel 2, probably the best 3rd party game that took advantage of the Wii’s motion control
View attachment 265823
Samurai are cool, cowboys are cool, mix em’ together to get a pretty badass character.

Omg yesssssss I forgot about that game.

Wasn't 2B last I recall soft deconfirmed given Sakurai not having any interaction with the creator?

Also Geno I'm not seeing at this point as he's not as big as made out to be the fandom makes him. I expect the Mii costume treatment again.

The 2B deconfirmation is something I'm not sold on. It's entirely possible that Nintendo and Square worked out the licensing deal before November, and Sakurai and the Nier creator are just now meeting as 2B's development begins.

Geno is totally a Mii costume again tho, there's no way Nintendo has enough confidence in the character that they'll put a $5.99 DLC pack on his shoulders and expect it to turn a profit.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Nice to know 2B ain't out of the running then. I really want her.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Video games are pretty cool. Anyone got obscure weirdo characters they'd want, even if you know it won't happen. I obviously got major/mainstream stuff I'd like to see.

Brian from Quest 64, easily. I never found him plausible using a Magic Meter, so he was never one I imagined who could play like Hero. Charging specials a bit, yes, at most, but Brian also has a lot more spells to work with, along with tons of elements and doesn't focus on one over the other.

So there's little overlap in general beyond both being magic masters. But very differently.

 

[SKX31]

The 2B deconfirmation is something I'm not sold on. It's entirely possible that Nintendo and Square worked out the licensing deal before November, and Sakurai and the Nier creator are just now meeting as 2B's development begins.

Yeah, exactly. Sakurai designed Ultimate's document around the 2015 / 2016 window, when Konami was just coming off the Kojima / Del Toro scandal (and Kojima had quit the company). Snake and Simon / Richter got in with new remixes despite Konami swearing to shift to mobile and gacha. I strongly doubt Sakurai openly told anyone about getting Kojima's blessing this time - especially not Konami.

Also:

Even with the COVID-19 situation in Korea, many people lined up to pre order the Animal Crossing LE Switch console this week.

The Daewon Nintendo shop at ipark mall sold through its stock of around 150 units instantly, with some lining up for hours to ensure they can buy it. pic.twitter.com/1J6Bvkqa0V

— Daniel Ahmad (@ZhugeEX) March 15, 2020

Zhuge's thread mentions further that SK is Nintendo's #3 market in Asia (behind Japan and China), with at least more than 600K Switches in the country. If Nintendo picked a FP2 character with expansion in mind then China / South Korea is my bet for who Nintendo want to target.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Yeah, exactly. Sakurai designed Ultimate's document around the 2015 / 2016 window, when Konami was just coming off the Kojima / Del Toro scandal (and Kojima had quit the company). Snake and Simon / Richter got in with new remixes despite Konami swearing to shift to mobile and gacha. I strongly doubt Sakurai openly told anyone about getting Kojima's blessing this time - especially not Konami.

Also:

Zhuge's thread mentions further that SK is Nintendo's #3 market in Asia (behind Japan and China), with at least more than 600K Switches in the country. If Nintendo picked a FP2 character with expansion in mind then China / South Korea is my bet for who Nintendo want to target.

Its an nice breath of fresh air to know there's still people not going all looney over this.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Unless we start looking at possible Echoes, I don't think Genger or any Pokemon who isn't from the current Gen will have a very good chance of getting in Smash. It seems like Sakurai, Nintendo, Game Freak, and whoever else gets involved in the decision process prefers choosing from the pool of characters from the latest game rather than old favorites.

It's not impossible, but I think the odds of it happening are just as high as Lyn getting added over the avatar of the next FE game.

And why is this a good thing? Because a quota gets to be filled out? Sometimes I wonder if you truly want a Gen 8 Pokemon or if you just want to be right.

 

[SNEKeater]

God, Sol Badguy in Smash would be so ****ing cool.

If he's implemented as faithfully as Ryu/Ken and Terry, he could be have all of the lethality and hype of Smash 4 Bayo, but with none of the bull**** and an actual skill floor.

He could pull the death combos and 'your combo is now my combo' plays that Bayo could, but he'd need to build meter, properly time and execute Roman cancels, and do combos using special cancels and command inputs, as opposed to Witchtime and death combos being free (he also wouldn't have gun neutral).

When you factor in that to build meter, he would have to constantly play aggressively, and I think you have a recipe for possibly the most hype character in Smash history.

I agree, I think he should and would feel as the hypest character in the roster. They'd had to make sure to transmit that feeling in all his animations.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well...If it's 2B or Geno then 2B wins easily due to appealing to more than just a subset of the core Super Smash Bros. fanbase.

EDIT: I bet Lara has a horse in this race as well assuming that said race exists. I could see the decision of Lara or 2B going either way. Crono would likely be considered, but I doubt they'd pick him over the other two.

And why is this a good thing? Because a quota gets to be filled out? Sometimes I wonder if you truly want a Gen 8 Pokemon or if you just want to be right.

I don't think he was implying that it was a good thing. Just that it is.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't think he was implying that it was a good thing. Just that it is.

Oh, he is. Cosmic thinks Rillaboom would be bad because it'd be a blatant quota character, but at the same time Smash needs a Pokemon that's blatantly about filling quotas over what's popular.

Come to think of it, I just summarized my two biggest complaints about Smash fans' thoughts on Pokemon in 24 hours: Older ones don't like knowing there's far more to the franchise than Mewtwo, younger ones only care about filling quotas rather than what the series' Waluigi/Dixie/Dee actually is.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Zhuge's thread mentions further that SK is Nintendo's #3 market in Asia (behind Japan and China), with at least more than 600K Switches in the country. If Nintendo picked a FP2 character with expansion in mind then China / South Korea is my bet for who Nintendo want to target.

Who's ready for Fighter Pack 6 to be knee cap breaking Tom ****ING NOOK GET HYPE

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly I don't think any of the "popular picks" from here are remotely likely. I expect another fighting genre character who's moveset translates directly from the source game, for example Nightmare from Soul Calibur or Heiachi from Tekken. Could even be both of them honestly.

A Galar Pokémon we haven't seen yet is also quite likely. Not sure who. Am not entirely confident in yet another starter, maybe it'll be another Pokémon Trainer, because this is DLC after all. Another hugely popular request as Geno or Isaac seem another likely scenario. I also wouldn't rule out anything from the next Zelda, yet am not sure what to expect from it yet. It's as ambiguous as "new Fire Emblem rep" was when Three Houses wasn't fully revealed yet. Last but not least, Monster Hunter is still a character I could see.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Person A: Geno will be our third Square Enix rep!
Person B: No, it’s clearly 2B because she’s the most popular!
Person C: It’s gotta be Lara! She has the legacy!
Me: cries in Neku whose game was a hit on the Nintendo DS - if you want another DS generation rep after Lucario he’s perfect but nobody here cares about TWEWY

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Change my view:

Of all the major Fighting games not yet represented in Smash, Tekken would be the worst to pick mechanically.

Not represented in Smash yet are:

Tekken
Soul Calibur
Guilty Gear
BlazBlue
Killer Instinct
Mortal Kombat (pretty much banned in Japan, so it's out of the running)
Skullgirls (maybe not for good boys and girls, but never played it -- someone fill me in)
Darkstalkers (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running)
Dead or Alive (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running + douchey business practices make me not want a DoA rep)
not counting SNK fighters since KoF is their crossover game, and Terry reps that.
+any I missed.

Of all of these, Tekken has
- some of the slowest movement
- the most reliance on a 4-button combat system
- the lowest emphasis on air combat
- highest emphasis on footsies/boxing
- most reliance on 3-D/arena fighter mechanics
- few fireballs/projectiles

The fighting game reps so far have represented their series' mechanics to a T, and I think you'd have to take so many liberties converting a Tekken character to Smash, that you'd be doing Tekken fans a disservice by changing their character so much when the other FG reps were so faithful (this is exactly what I think Sakurai meant when he said he scrapped Heihachi in Smash 4 when he couldn't think of a way to implement his 'movement'). Even the other Namco arena fighter, Soul Calibur, has things like faster movement, wider hitboxes, and ring-outs that makes it a more natural fit for Smash.

I can't deny that Tekken has the most crossover 'oomph' of all the stated fighting games, but I'm a guy who supports characters for the sake of them being mechanically interesting/well-implemented, over for the sake of the character getting into Smash. I'd prefer a rep from KI, MK, SC, or GG to a Tekken rep, but that's just my opinion.

thank you for watching my TED talk



and none of this essay is just me justifying why I don't want Heihachi, who is probably the FG rep with the most support at this point

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To be honest I'm not seeing Heihachi at this point.

Sakurai considered him for Sm4sh but didn't because he likes to stay true to an characters franchise and implementing Tekken's gameplay would be difficult. I feel he's out of the running.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

To be honest I'm not seeing Heihachi at this point.

Sakurai considered him for Sm4sh but didn't because he likes to stay true to an characters franchise and implementing Tekken's gameplay would be difficult. I feel he's out of the running.

I kinda expect his Mii costume to return with whomever the second Namco rep is if we have one. I have a feeling it won’t be Lloyd either

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh, he is. Cosmic thinks Rillaboom would be bad because it'd be a blatant quota character, but at the same time Smash needs a Pokemon that's blatantly about filling quotas over what's popular.

I don't know how you got that from

It seems like Sakurai, Nintendo, Game Freak, and whoever else gets involved in the decision process prefers choosing from the pool of characters from the latest game rather than old favorites.

It's not impossible, but I think the odds of it happening are just as high as Lyn getting added over the avatar of the next FE game.

especially since it's a reasonable conclusion to make. After the Pokémon Trainer, the Pokémon added were Lucario, Greninja, and Incineroar. Gen 4 was the current generation at the time of Lucario's addition (Gen 5 came out two years after Super Smash Bros. Brawl it couldn't get a Pokémon), Greninja was added when all they had of the Pokémon was concept art, and a spot was saved for Incineroar during the character selection phase.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

tweet

It seems people would rish catching the virus if it means They get that AC switch

Its ****ing aborable so I see why