Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Trevenant]

To be honest I'm not seeing Heihachi at this point.

Sakurai considered him for Sm4sh but didn't because he likes to stay true to an characters franchise and implementing Tekken's gameplay would be difficult. I feel he's out of the running.

That’s probably not a strong enough reason when you take into consideration how many times Sakurai has went back on his word for PAC-MAN, Miis, Villager and most notoriously Ridley. Yeah sure it hurts his chances but it definitely shouldn’t keep him out of the running

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I kinda expect his Mii costume to return with whomever the second Namco rep is if we have one. I have a feeling it won’t be Lloyd either

Aw yeah Nightmare here we come!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Change my view:

Of all the major Fighting games not yet represented in Smash, Tekken would be the worst to pick mechanically.

Not represented in Smash yet are:

Tekken
Soul Calibur
Guilty Gear
BlazBlue
Killer Instinct
Mortal Kombat (pretty much banned in Japan, so it's out of the running)
Skullgirls (maybe not for good boys and girls, but never played it -- someone fill me in)
Darkstalkers (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running)
Dead or Alive (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running + douchey business practices make me not want a DoA rep)
not counting SNK fighters since KoF is their crossover game, and Terry reps that.
+any I missed.

Of all of these, Tekken has
- some of the slowest movement
- the most reliance on a 4-button combat system
- the lowest emphasis on air combat
- highest emphasis on footsies/boxing
- most reliance on 3-D/arena fighter mechanics
- few fireballs/projectiles

The fighting game reps so far have represented their series' mechanics to a T, and I think you'd have to take so many liberties converting a Tekken character to Smash, that you'd be doing Tekken fans a disservice by changing their character so much when the other FG reps were so faithful (this is exactly what I think Sakurai meant when he said he scrapped Heihachi in Smash 4 when he couldn't think of a way to implement his 'movement'). Even the other Namco arena fighter, Soul Calibur, has things like faster movement, wider hitboxes, and ring-outs that makes it a more natural fit for Smash.

I can't deny that Tekken has the most crossover 'oomph' of all the stated fighting games, but I'm a guy who supports characters for the sake of them being mechanically interesting/well-implemented, over for the sake of the character getting into Smash. I'd prefer a rep from KI, MK, SC, or GG to a Tekken rep, but that's just my opinion.

thank you for watching my TED talk



and none of this essay is just me justifying why I don't want Heihachi, who is probably the FG rep with the most support at this point

Yoshimitsu is in both Tekken and Soul Calicur. He could represent both if he got in. But yeah, I see what you mean.

Which of these is the most popular in Japan, and is for "good boys and girls"? Mortal Kombat indeed seems questionable, but that was always the case.

So Soul Calibur seems to stand out the most, right?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Person A: Geno will be our third Square Enix rep!
Person B: No, it’s clearly 2B because she’s the most popular!
Person C: It’s gotta be Lara! She has the legacy!
Me: cries in Neku whose game was a hit on the Nintendo DS - if you want another DS generation rep after Lucario he’s perfect but nobody here cares about TWEWY

Person D: I like Sora in smash
persons A-C: Lol nah

 

[chocolatejr9]

I kinda expect his Mii costume to return with whomever the second Namco rep is if we have one. I have a feeling it won’t be Lloyd either

I don't know why, but I feel like Klonoa will get SOMETHING in Ultimate. I don't know if he'll be playable or a Mii costume or what, but I just have a... weird feeling about. And I don't normally have these sorts of feelings.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m still hoping for KOS-MOS myself, fake leak storm by haters last December be damned. I genuinely wanted her for quite a while

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Change my view:

Of all the major Fighting games not yet represented in Smash, Tekken would be the worst to pick mechanically.

Not represented in Smash yet are:

Tekken
Soul Calibur
Guilty Gear
BlazBlue
Killer Instinct
Mortal Kombat (pretty much banned in Japan, so it's out of the running)
Skullgirls (maybe not for good boys and girls, but never played it -- someone fill me in)
Darkstalkers (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running)
Dead or Alive (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running + douchey business practices make me not want a DoA rep)
not counting SNK fighters since KoF is their crossover game, and Terry reps that.
+any I missed.

Of all of these, Tekken has
- some of the slowest movement
- the most reliance on a 4-button combat system
- the lowest emphasis on air combat
- highest emphasis on footsies/boxing
- most reliance on 3-D/arena fighter mechanics
- few fireballs/projectiles

The fighting game reps so far have represented their series' mechanics to a T, and I think you'd have to take so many liberties converting a Tekken character to Smash, that you'd be doing Tekken fans a disservice by changing their character so much when the other FG reps were so faithful (this is exactly what I think Sakurai meant when he said he scrapped Heihachi in Smash 4 when he couldn't think of a way to implement his 'movement'). Even the other Namco arena fighter, Soul Calibur, has things like faster movement, wider hitboxes, and ring-outs that makes it a more natural fit for Smash.

I can't deny that Tekken has the most crossover 'oomph' of all the stated fighting games, but I'm a guy who supports characters for the sake of them being mechanically interesting/well-implemented, over for the sake of the character getting into Smash. I'd prefer a rep from KI, MK, SC, or GG to a Tekken rep, but that's just my opinion.

thank you for watching my TED talk



and none of this essay is just me justifying why I don't want Heihachi, who is probably the FG rep with the most support at this point

MK isn't banned in Japan, the devs simply chose not to localize it after poor sales like how that DOA volleyball game didn't get brought over to the west.

The 'good boys and girls' comment was alluding to CERO, who's notoriously stingy with panty shots, Morrigan's most child unfriendly part of her design is her boobs, which Smash has already shown that it isn't too bad considering Bayonetta, ZSS' alts and more. At worst, Morrigan would need a slight change like Bayo, Corrin and Mythra

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That’s probably not a strong enough reason when you take into consideration how many times Sakurai has went back on his word for PAC-MAN, Miis, Villager and most notoriously Ridley. Yeah sure it hurts his chances but it definitely shouldn’t keep him out of the running

What are your thoughts on the Heihachi taunt cameo Pac-Man has? Do you think that deconfirms him or not?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I’m still hoping for KOS-MOS myself, fake leak storm by haters last December be damned. I genuinely wanted her for quite a while

Seems reasonable enough, learned of her cameo in Xenoblade, and it's technically the same franchise yes? So as part of a legacy sort of thing, it could happen. Don't know anything about her however, bit wouldn't be upset with this.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I remember plenty of talk about Doom Slayer before Joker. It just wasn't as dominant until people noticed a pattern without noticing something else about these third-parties: They lean more towards Bayonetta than Ryu/Cloud.

I wouldn’t say anyone’s been leaning towards Bayonetta at all. Every third party we’ve gotten since her has been much bigger. This coming from a Bayo fan, I love that series but it hasn’t been a hot seller & she’s only in Smash because she’s an honorary Nintendo character at this point.

Crash might have been a big deal back when Melee or even Brawl released, but he's fallen off hard in terms of popularity, even with his remakes. Plus, the fact that his newer games are all cross-platform removes the 'playstation's mascot' factor that could make his reveal as Earth-shattering as the other 3.

The trilogy remake has sold 10 million copies & CTR seems to be really big too. Crash is back, I fully expect new games in the series on the next-gen consoles.

Is Steve really that big though in the gaming community? I know Minecraft is but I have never heard of Steve love or talk on the same level, it’s always been about repping Minecraft more than anything from my understanding. I mean he’s just an avatar character from my understanding.

I think it’d be more of a bigger deal that Minecraft is in Smash than Steve himself. I imagine all of Steve’s alts will be based on skins you can use in Minecraft anyway.

 

[Trevenant]

What are your thoughts on the Heihachi taunt cameo Pac-Man has? Do you think that deconfirms him or not?

I think that it was in a similar boat to a spirit in fighter pass 1. It meant he wasn’t coming then but now it’s fair game.

Imo it’s probably more likely to be promoted than a spirit but I think spirits still have a semi decent shot for promotion

 

[M@R!3]

My obscure weirdo character would be the Kusagari from Red Steel 2, probably the best 3rd party game that took advantage of the Wii’s motion control
View attachment 265823
Samurai are cool, cowboys are cool, mix em’ together to get a pretty badass character.

Red Steel 2 was a fun game. It's a shame it didn't sell well.

 

[zeldasmash]

Hmmm this Sora talk has got me thinking: what other characters have the most crossover 'oomph' (a la Sonic, Ryu, or Cloud) if they get added to Smash?

My thoughts are probably Sora (because Disney), Master Chief (because mascot of a rival company), and Kratos (also because mascot of a rival company). What do y'all's think?

Master Chief and Kratos would make the Internet crash with how big they'd be. Crash and Sora may cause quite an uproar, but Chief and Kratos would be real big deals due to them being the rival companies to Nintendo. Kratos in particular I think would illicit more of a HOLY **** reaction because it's Sony, Nintendo's biggest competitor and rival and because Chief is actually more reasonable due to Microsoft's willingness to work with Nintendo (Banjo in Smash, Cuphead and Ori getting releases on the Switch, etc) while Sony isn't as likely.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Every third party we’ve gotten since her has been much bigger.

You do remember why Banjo vs. Steve was a thing, right?

I don't know how you got that from

Not from that post, but from various other posts Cosmic's made. Furthermore, if Smash DLC truly is about expanding demographics, the Pokemon they would go with would be something that'd have a bigger audience than a Galar shill.

 

[Deleted member]

Who's ready for Fighter Pack 6 to be knee cap breaking Tom ****ING NOOK GET HYPE

I do think that Tom Nook is being slept on at the moment.

I can see him being the "Byleth" of Vol.2, a "shill" character to promote their big title this year.

 

[Megadoomer]

What are your thoughts on the Heihachi taunt cameo Pac-Man has? Do you think that deconfirms him or not?

Chrom wasn't prevented from being in Smash Ultimate despite being Robin's Final Smash, and the Duck Hunt Dog wasn't prevented from being in Smash 4 or Smash Ultimate despite also being an interactive element on the Duck Hunt stage. It's a little nod, but it doesn't seem to impact Heihachi's chances either way.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I disagree as again, that caused Dante's Smash popularity to explode and get Capcom to talk about it by way of "oh **** I never considered that! That'd be great!"

And that did happen, but I'm saying that, even after that happened, Dante still wasn't even in the top 10. So "frontrunner" is not a word I would use to describe his situation.

Was he predicted way more than he was before after that? Yes. But frontrunner implies one of the most requested/predicted characters, which he never was back then.

 

[Opossum]

Crash might have been a big deal back when Melee or even Brawl released, but he's fallen off hard in terms of popularity, even with his remakes. Plus, the fact that his newer games are all cross-platform removes the 'playstation's mascot' factor that could make his reveal as Earth-shattering as the other 3.

In addition to the N. Sane Trilogy selling over ten million copies and the Switch port being very successful, and even ignoring how well Nitro Fueled did (which was super well, given all of its post-release content), Crash is absolutely big nowadays.

Activision considers it one of their major franchises again and there are currently three entire Crash games in various stages of being leaked (a mobile game, a remaster of Wrath of Cortex, and some sort of pvp game).

There's a reason Nintendo called Crash a "gaming icon" when announcing the N. Sane Trilogy Switch port.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Chrom wasn't prevented from being in Smash Ultimate despite being Robin's Final Smash, and the Duck Hunt Dog wasn't prevented from being in Smash 4 or Smash Ultimate despite also being an interactive element on the Duck Hunt stage. It's a little nod, but it doesn't seem to impact Heihachi's chances either way.

To be fair his VO, who also voiced Incineroar, passed away in 2018. They replaced Heihachi’s VO but only for some mobile game, idk about mainline Tekken yet

I still kinda think Sakurai wouldn’t be able to translate Tekken’s 3D style to 2D Smash, but that’s just me

 

[chocolatejr9]

In addition to the N. Sane Trilogy selling over ten million copies and the Switch port being very successful, and even ignoring how well Nitro Fueled did (which was super well, given all of its post-release content), Crash is absolutely big nowadays.

Activision considers it one of their major franchises again and there are currently three entire Crash games in various stages of being leaked (a mobile game, a remaster of Wrath of Cortex, and some sort of pvp game).

There's a reason Nintendo called Crash a "gaming icon" when announcing the N. Sane Trilogy Switch port.

Man, their relationship has come a long way, hasn't it? You wouldn't Crash was slandering Mario right outside Nintendo's headquarters.

 

[Opossum]

Man, their relationship has come a long way, hasn't it? You wouldn't Crash was slandering Mario right outside Nintendo's headquarters.

Speaking of this, I hope that if Crash gets in, he comes with a Mii Gunner outfit of the Crash Suit Guy using the megaphone as a gun.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also about Morrigan, remember this?

This is a cartoon for kids, yet Morrigan's still there. Though you may be thinking "well, you could get away with more in the 90's right?" Wrong, see We Love Golf!, in which Morrigan appears

She's not likely by any means, but she's not a problem for CERO

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

To be honest I'm not seeing Heihachi at this point.

Sakurai considered him for Sm4sh but didn't because he likes to stay true to an characters franchise and implementing Tekken's gameplay would be difficult. I feel he's out of the running.

Sakurai's changed his mind in the span of a game before so I wouldn't say he's out of the running. That being said I don't find him particularly likely anyway.

Skullgirls (maybe not for good boys and girls, but never played it -- someone fill me in)
Darkstalkers (not for good boys and girls, so it's entirely out of the running)

If a Skullgirls character were added it would be Filia. Her design would need to be altered since she wears a short skirt, but lengthening her hemline and/or turning her subhose into tights wouldn't break the character design so I think she'd be fine. A few other cast members would need similar adjustments in order to be background characters.

Morrigan's design is fine. Just have her leotard not defy gravity and she'll only be as M rated as Bayonetta is (probably less so since she doesn't show thigh). Most of the other characters are perfectly fine as well, though Felicia would definitely need to use design from the cartoon or be excluded entirely. Which is fine, because I really don't like looking at her.

Of all of these, Tekken has
- some of the slowest movement
- the most reliance on a 4-button combat system
- the lowest emphasis on air combat
- highest emphasis on footsies/boxing
- most reliance on 3-D/arena fighter mechanics
- few fireballs/projectiles

The fighting game reps so far have represented their series' mechanics to a T, and I think you'd have to take so many liberties converting a Tekken character to Smash, that you'd be doing Tekken fans a disservice by changing their character so much when the other FG reps were so faithful (this is exactly what I think Sakurai meant when he said he scrapped Heihachi in Smash 4 when he couldn't think of a way to implement his 'movement'). Even the other Namco arena fighter, Soul Calibur, has things like faster movement, wider hitboxes, and ring-outs that makes it a more natural fit for Smash.

I think you could make it work. Not having a projectile is a non-issue, and the 3D mechanics mostly equate to sidestepping iirc, which could be substituted for a good spot dodge and rolls. The rest of the traits would probably make for a less polarized version of Little Mac (can use aerial attacks to stop platform camping, but is still much better on the ground than in the air), but with a larger focus on neutral, and traits that are more suited to a heavy. The 4-button system would be the most difficult thing to implement I think, and I'd need to do more research before I could come up with a solution to it.

So essentially, a Tekken character would move slowly, but not necessarily have slow frame data, would have a great ground game that allows it to win neutral with less effort, but only a passable aerial game and an awful disadvantage state. There would be a little more to it, but that'd be the gist of it.
EDIT: I do realize that this has bottom tier written all over it though, and there is still the button system issue.

Not from that post, but from various other posts Cosmic's made. Furthermore, if Smash DLC truly is about expanding demographics, the Pokemon they would go with would be something that'd have a bigger audience than a Galar shill.

Then it sounds like you're imprinting your biases of him onto his words. Also, if Smash DLC were truly about expanding demographics then we wouldn't get a Pokémon at all, as they're not really that interesting to the general populous.

 

[SKX31]

Hmmm this Sora talk has got me thinking: what other characters have the most crossover 'oomph' (a la Sonic, Ryu, or Cloud) if they get added to Smash?

My thoughts are probably Sora (because Disney), Master Chief (because mascot of a rival company), and Kratos (also because mascot of a rival company). What do y'all's think?

It's very, very region (and demographic) dependent, but aside from agreeing with you and zeldasmash :

* Minecraft: Self-explanatory really.
* Fortnite: Yea, I'm saying it. Would spark an immense internet firestorm, but likely be very welcome for Fortnite's fans. Validation is key - "Holy **** my favorite game's in the same game as Mario!" you know.
* A MOBA character: The MOBA fanbase is incredibly large and (mostly) global but extremely introverted. The existing crossover between the Smash fanbase and LoL / Dota 2 is miniscule at best at that. Could be a major out of the blue pick.
* Story of Seasons: While Animal Crossing's already in the game, SoS' inclusion would be Terry-esque but in a different direction. SoS has influenced casual games like FarmVille while also having a hardcore fanbase of its own.

Crash certainly approaches that territory, as does Heihachi / Mortal Kombat. [Edit: Forgot characters like Lara Croft and Chun-Li, those two are widely known even to your Average Joes / Janes. They'd also approach that territory.]

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also about Morrigan, remember this?

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 265833

*laughs hysterically*

They look so stupid! What did they do to their faces? Why is his hair so pointy?

*continues laughing*

EDIT: Though considering they turned Jon Talbain into a dog, and had a running gag of Riquo being "strangely attractive for a fish" this shouldn't surprise me.

 

[Cosmic77]

And why is this a good thing? Because a quota gets to be filled out? Sometimes I wonder if you truly want a Gen 8 Pokemon or if you just want to be right.

Oh, he is. Cosmic thinks Rillaboom would be bad because it'd be a blatant quota character, but at the same time Smash needs a Pokemon that's blatantly about filling quotas over what's popular.

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what your beef is with me and Gen 8.

In 2018 you supported Lycanroc just like I did with no concerns about it being from a new game whatsoever. Today however, it annoys the heck out of you whenever someone suggests that a Gen 8 mon would probably have the best chance of getting in as DLC. You also made it very clear that you didn't want a starter from either Gen 7 or Gen 8, so I don't know why you take offense to me not wanting Rillaboom.

I honestly don't know what you want, and you aren't doing a very good job of verbalizing what you want without contradicting several other statements you previously made. All I can gather is that you want Eevee and that Sirfetch'd would be okay.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

*laughs hysterically*

They look so stupid! What did they do to their faces? Why is his hair so pointy?

*continues laughing*

EDIT: Though considering they turned Jon Talbain into a dog, and had a running gag of Riquo being "strangely attractive for a fish" this shouldn't surprise me.

I never said it was a good cartoon, though it does help prove we can and should get Morrigan in Smash. I want to hear Siobhan Flynn in more than MvC dammit

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand what your beef is with me and Gen 8.

When you say things like

Unless we start looking at possible Echoes, I don't think Genger or any Pokemon who isn't from the current Gen will have a very good chance of getting in Smash. It seems like Sakurai, Nintendo, Game Freak, and whoever else gets involved in the decision process prefers choosing from the pool of characters from the latest game rather than old favorites.

It's not impossible, but I think the odds of it happening are just as high as Lyn getting added over the avatar of the next FE game.

I think what Sakurai is doing now works best. Focus mostly on the latest Gens for every new Smash game and add a few small things for the Gens already represented, like how we got Abra and Scizor as Pokeball Pokemon.

You're basically telling people to eat **** if they care about more than just the newest batch of starters.

In 2018 you supported Lycanroc just like I did with no concerns about it being from a new game whatsoever.

I supported Mimikyu as well, even more than Lycanroc in fact, but unfortunately Pokemon fans are more submissive to deconfirmations than say Mario fans so I didn't get to hang around that thread that often. I don't necessarily take offense to you not wanting Rillaboom, but your reason for wanting someone else from Gen 8 is the same as why someone would want Rillaboom: To blatantly fill out a quota.

But anyway, the reason why I'm annoyed at people only focusing on gen 8 is mainly that I'm a Dexiter and Pokemon is just too big to focus solely on the newest mainline games.

 

[KillerCage]

Kind of a general question to everyone, but has Smash speculation ever gotten you to try a new series or game before?

Speculation got me into Doom.

Chrom wasn't prevented from being in Smash Ultimate despite being Robin's Final Smash, and the Duck Hunt Dog wasn't prevented from being in Smash 4 or Smash Ultimate despite also being an interactive element on the Duck Hunt stage. It's a little nod, but it doesn't seem to impact Heihachi's chances either way.

You do have to keep in mind that both Chrom and Duck Hunt were part of the base game of Ultimate and Smash 4 respectively.
So far we haven't seen anyone who was not a fighter in the base get upgraded to Fighter status through DLC yet.
Until we see that kind of upgrade occur, I don't think Heihachi will get in Smash Ultimate as a fighter.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

One thing I think should be kept in mind when it comes to thinking of "who comes next" with Fighter Pass 2, is that folks are looking closely at Sakurai and his thought processes.

Here's the thing though: Sakurai doesn't have nearly the same control over chosen characters at this point that he used to, or even did during base roster picks or Wii U/3DS.

Pointing out such things as "Sakurai could change his mind" aren't nearly as relevant as they used to be. It's fine and dandy that Sakurai has changed his mind, but that doesn't matter if he isn't picking characters the same way he did. Nintendo is the party with the most decision-making power at this point.

A few other things have remained true despite shifts in "power" of decision-making:

1) Every single DLC pick has been a protagonist from the series they originate from. This is simple and one could say expected. Smash is a mascot fighter/crossover, meaning it makes logical sense that mascots/cover characters would be picked for DLC. This is true among 100% of paid DLC picks from Wii U and Ultimate (Piranha Plant is not included because of reasons exclusive to it).

2) While not a disconfirmation factor, it should be noted that any 1st party choices have been veterans or the protagonist of a newer title. As we have no veterans to add, this is essentially negligible, and we ironically received protagonists from the same series with the "shill" pick.

3) Outside of veteran or "shill" picks, each pick has not only been 3rd party, but from a new series independent of other series added to DLC. This is consistent among DLC picks from Wii U/3DS as well as Ultimate.

While each character seems to be a different and unique situation, I think these bits of information are worth noting and keeping in mind while making expectations of the next Season of DLC. I've seen some folks expecting 3 upgrades, when that simply goes against the mindset of nearly 9 DLC characters across two games, across 6 years, in more than one way. I wouldn't rule anything out 100%, because that's kinda crazy. However, I don't know that there's going to be some massive shift in outlook when there are certain things that just make business sense within Smash and outside of Smash.

I'm not even really anti-upgrades. I loved Golden Sun and think Isaac would be cool. The problem for me in actively expecting Isaac, or considering him "likely" is that there's no marketing potential with Golden Sun as a Nintendo property. There's no new game coming either. He would be a pure fan pick, but, 1st party-wise, this has yet to happen.

It mainly comes down to Nintendo, not Sakurai, deciding an upgrade is worth it. The only characters in my humble opinion that even reach that, are Waluigi and Rex, yet Rex received more than most NPCs do. So basically, Waluigi is the only character I could see viably being upgraded as Nintendo's response to him not being playable, but then I question the method of additional content that Waluigi would bring with him. He's not a main protagonist. He would again be a pure fan pick, but it would again go against all previous DLC except for veterans, which are obviously a different circumstance entirely.

Eh, I guess I was really bored. But there you have it, Jonesposting at its finest!

 

[HansShotFirst20]

In addition to the N. Sane Trilogy selling over ten million copies and the Switch port being very successful, and even ignoring how well Nitro Fueled did (which was super well, given all of its post-release content), Crash is absolutely big nowadays.

Activision considers it one of their major franchises again and there are currently three entire Crash games in various stages of being leaked (a mobile game, a remaster of Wrath of Cortex, and some sort of pvp game).

There's a reason Nintendo called Crash a "gaming icon" when announcing the N. Sane Trilogy Switch port.

As a general reply to these posts:

I'm not saying Crash isn't big. Crash is the biggest he's been since the early 2000's, and is bigger than other mascots from that era like Banjo.

What I'm saying is that it's no longer 'impossible' for Crash to get in (IMO it's likely), given that he's no longer the mascot of Sony, and his recent games/remakes are all cross-platform, including the Switch. Thusly, though Crash is absolutely a significant character, and his reveal would be hype, it wouldn't be as earth-shattering as it would have been while Crash was still a Sony character.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

1) Every single DLC pick has been a protagonist from the series they originate from. This is simple and one could say expected. Smash is a mascot fighter/crossover, meaning it makes logical sense that mascots/cover characters would be picked for DLC. This is true among 100% of paid DLC picks from Wii U and Ultimate (Piranha Plant is not included because of reasons exclusive to it).

Which is why Morrigan will get in to break that pattern haHAAAAA

 

[Deleted member]

Kind of a general question to everyone, but has Smash speculation ever gotten you to try a new series or game before?

It is making me want to play Danganronpa, Nier Automate and did get me to play Fire Emblem Three Houses.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I never said it was a good cartoon, though it does help prove we can and should get Morrigan in Smash. I want to hear Siobhan Flynn in more than MvC dammit

I wonder if one of her victory animations or taunts will reference one of her victory animations from Darkstalkers; the one where she does that weird hoppy thing. On the one hand it would be a nice homage, but on the other hand I'm not sure that animation would look any good in 3D.

It would be amazing if she had a retro skin that made her look like her original sprite though. Especially with how memed it was getting.

You're basically telling people to eat **** if they care about more than just the newest batch of starters.

Whoah there! That escalates his subtext quite a bit. Thinking it's better to focus on new characters does not mean you also think people who like old characters are stupid or anything.

But anyway, the reason why I'm annoyed at people only focusing on gen 8 is mainly that I'm a Dexiter and Pokemon is just too big to focus solely on the newest mainline games.

I agree that the newcomer pool shouldn't be exclusive to the newest Pokémon, but what does wanting less Pokémon in the mainline titles have to do with that?

 

[Guynamednelson]

A few other things have remained true despite shifts in "power" of decision-making:

Are the third parties minus Hero being smaller than Ryu/Cloud, or Byleth getting the same treatment as the third parties not differences?

but what does wanting less Pokémon in the mainline titles have to do with that?

I meant that I'm against Game Freak cutting Pokemon for "high quality animations" or whatever. Maybe I should've said BBNDer?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm not even really anti-upgrades. I loved Golden Sun and think Isaac would be cool. The problem for me in actively expecting Isaac, or considering him "likely" is that there's no marketing potential with Golden Sun as a Nintendo property. There's no new game coming either. He would be a pure fan pick, but, 1st party-wise, this has yet to happen.

The important thing to note is that only like two characters in the history of Smash DLC had any thing to do with promoting an upcoming game and they were from franchises that already had established recent success, so they were “safer” choices. Even if a new Golden Sun game we’re to be confirmed right this second, it still wouldn’t increase Isaac’s chance. Not even remotely.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

One thing I think should be kept in mind when it comes to thinking of "who comes next" with Fighter Pass 2, is that folks are looking closely at Sakurai and his thought processes.

Here's the thing though: Sakurai doesn't have nearly the same control over chosen characters at this point that he used to, or even did during base roster picks or Wii U/3DS.

Pointing out such things as "Sakurai could change his mind" aren't nearly as relevant as they used to be. It's fine and dandy that Sakurai has changed his mind, but that doesn't matter if he isn't picking characters the same way he did. Nintendo is the party with the most decision-making power at this point.

A few other things have remained true despite shifts in "power" of decision-making:

1) Every single DLC pick has been a protagonist from the series they originate from. This is simple and one could say expected. Smash is a mascot fighter/crossover, meaning it makes logical sense that mascots/cover characters would be picked for DLC. This is true among 100% of paid DLC picks from Wii U and Ultimate (Piranha Plant is not included because of reasons exclusive to it).

2) While not a disconfirmation factor, it should be noted that any 1st party choices have been veterans or the protagonist of a newer title. As we have no veterans to add, this is essentially negligible, and we ironically received protagonists from the same series with the "shill" pick.

3) Outside of veteran or "shill" picks, each pick has not only been 3rd party, but from a new series independent of other series added to DLC. This is consistent among DLC picks from Wii U/3DS as well as Ultimate.

While each character seems to be a different and unique situation, I think these bits of information are worth noting and keeping in mind while making expectations of the next Season of DLC. I've seen some folks expecting 3 upgrades, when that simply goes against the mindset of nearly 9 DLC characters across two games, across 6 years, in more than one way. I wouldn't rule anything out 100%, because that's kinda crazy. However, I don't know that there's going to be some massive shift in outlook when there are certain things that just make business sense within Smash and outside of Smash.

I'm not even really anti-upgrades. I loved Golden Sun and think Isaac would be cool. The problem for me in actively expecting Isaac, or considering him "likely" is that there's no marketing potential with Golden Sun as a Nintendo property. There's no new game coming either. He would be a pure fan pick, but, 1st party-wise, this has yet to happen.

It mainly comes down to Nintendo, not Sakurai, deciding an upgrade is worth it. The only characters in my humble opinion that even reach that, are Waluigi and Rex, yet Rex received more than most NPCs do. So basically, Waluigi is the only character I could see viably being upgraded as Nintendo's response to him not being playable, but then I question the method of additional content that Waluigi would bring with him. He's not a main protagonist. He would again be a pure fan pick, but it would again go against all previous DLC except for veterans, which are obviously a different circumstance entirely.

Eh, I guess I was really bored. But there you have it, Jonesposting at its finest!

I agree with pretty much all of this. Nintendo needs each of these 6 characters to carry a $5.99 DLC pack on their own, and a lot of the long-standing 1st parties supported on this site (Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Krystal, etc.) Just don't live up to that requirement.

I expect each of the characters from FPv2 to be from a series with a fanbase that overlaps with Smash's (the Smash fans get hype/salty over a reveal, and the hype pulls the people from X series's fanbase into Smash's), but not characters that exclusively appeal the the Smash fanbase (who were going to buy the character anyway, and you don't expand the demographic that way).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Just don't live up to that requirement.

People care about more than just adding more copyrights to the title screen, you know. A bunch of people in here think the Smash bubble doesn't care about normies enough, but ignore how the majority mainly cares about who they can play as than who got in in a minor way, with the only exception being a certain pair of Mii costumes that obscure the Mii head and come with music anyway, and they were more hype for that than Terry.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I agree with pretty much all of this. Nintendo needs each of these 6 characters to carry a $5.99 DLC pack on their own, and a lot of the long-standing 1st parties supported on this site (Geno, Isaac, Bandana Dee, Krystal, etc.) Just don't live up to that requirement.

Geno's not a 1st Party.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

People care about more than just adding more copyrights to the title screen, you know. A bunch of people in here think the Smash bubble doesn't care about normies enough, but ignore how the majority mainly cares about who they can play as than who got in in a minor way, with the only exception being a certain pair of Mii costumes that obscure the Mii head and come with music anyway, and they were more hype for that than Terry.

I'm having trouble figuring out what your contention is...
Is it that 'normie' characters are just as good being Mii costumes...?

idk

^to the above post, I'm aware he's owned by Squeenix, but he's a Mario character so I rolled him in with the 1st parties