Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SKX31]

The worst part about this post is that Byleth has the Fire Emblem as a gameplay mechanic in combat with the Crest of Flames and their canon last name being Eisner which can be traced to iron, with iron being used for Fire Emblem's codename meaning we literally have a ****ING CHARACTER CALLED BYLETH FIRE EMBLEM WHO DOESN'T USE THE FIRE EMBLEM IN SMASH HOLY **** WE WERE SO CLOSE TO HAVING THE FIRE EMBLEM ITSELF IN SMASH


And no, Corrin's Yato doesn't count, Fates is a hoax created by Smashing Raven

Oh crud. I made that post completely in jest. Didn't realize that the Crest of Flame even existed.

Thanks, TIL.

Speaking about Dante, Hideki Kamiya at PAX East mentioned that he wants to see Dante vs Bayonetta, while all the discussion about Dante in Smash is going on.

That sounds really promising whether Dante gets into Smash or not (and the Dante vs. Bayo thing happens in another game). Wouldn't be surprised if Bayo's absence from PXZ2 caused Kamiya to kinda 180 on the subject (IIRC he regretted Bayo's absence there).

 

[Ridrool64]

I only predict archetypes and Crash Bandicoot, right now. I have names I'm thinking because of popularity and possibly business potential, but nothing like Smash fandom OCD around reps is important.

For reference, I'm confident Crash will be Challenger Pack 1 or 3 out of these, so I'm ignoring him. Only limits I've set are Goku, SpongeBob and friends are out, DLC Mii Costumes are out, and anything known to have a Spirit Board event post-launch is out, with an asterisk on that last one because I think exactly one Galarian Pokémon still has a chance.

1. Somebody who is popular, but isn't widely associated with Nintendo. This character has the job of selling the pass to other people, who are not invested in Smash yet.
   1. Besides Crash, I could see Dante, Heihachi, 2B, Lara Croft, Sora, and if they manage to pull it off, Kratos.
2. Somebody who is from a series beloved in Japan, but isn't a very big request here. Maybe also having some doubt if they could get in. In their home country, they print money.
   1. Arle is my big guess here, but Reimu works. If we get a Tales character that's not Lloyd, my money's on Yuri, and he's going here.
3. Somebody who represents a major Smash fandom pick, or possibly another western fan favorite. Either way, they can be seen as a "reward" for this type of fandom.
   1. Again, besides Crash, I could see Master Chief, Steve, or perhaps a new character popular.
   2. Geno is the only character who fits Banjo's mold fully, but I believe his goose is cooked. But if it isn't, he, Rayman or Shantae could be here. Frisk goes here too, if Undertale doesn't get a Spirit Event before then.
4. The last third party character will not be as quite big today as the first three, but has a strong core following. Be it Nintendo history, another Smash fandom pick who's been on hard times, or iconic to the genre.
   1. Say, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Lloyd Irving, Ryu Hayabusa go here.
5. This is the first of two Nintendo characters, and I think this will be our only promotion from a base game role.
   1. Waluigi, Paper Mario, Isaac, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rex or Rook.
6. This is the second of two Nintendo characters, and this is our ad. They're probably not going to be very well received, unless it's a Zelda newcomer.
   1. Euden, Urshifu*, BotW 2 newcomer, whoever it is, it could even be a Nintendo character we've never heard of.
   2. Urshifu specifically, rather than a starter, Toxtricity, Grimmsnarl or Dragapult, because this is our rep for Generation 8's DLC, not the base game. You can annul this if you think the corner case doesn't count.

Outside of bigger reveals going to E3 or being revealed near TGS (likely not AT TGS), these could really be in any order. But I think we're going to get archetypes moreso than any individual character, with the special exception of Crash who I find limited reasons to doubt and supple reasons to expect.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Maybe Riiillabooom will get iiinnn. pfft, yeah right.

Rillaboom is lame but it's the only starter of the Galar region that I respect.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

He's always wanted to see that, so much so he regrets veto-ing Bayonetta out of Project X Zone 2 because he admits he was petty on wanting to make their first crossover. Now he's too late due to the SMT gacha

a potential Project X Zone 3 for Switch tho? Yes one of the lead programmers left but I think they can still continue the series

 

[HansShotFirst20]

Nah, it's going to be Archer and the amount of swords in Unlimited Blade Works will make all sword haters combust internally with salt.

No it will be Saber so I can get my Mordred echo

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Rillaboom is lame but it's the only starter of the Galar region that I respect.

Rillaboom? Lame.

Baboom? Win.

 

[Koopaul]

People always talk about giving more reps for series in the game and I'm over here wanting more characters from Nintendo series that aren't represented at all.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Idk about this one, you don't know the medical conditions of random people on the internet just by looking at their posts

That's not the lying part.

I played that stage. Anyone that says they have no problem telling which character is theirs in it is a despicable liar!

"I'm just gonna side-smash here, and hope when I let go of the stick, some of these guys will go away!"

People always talk about giving more reps for series in the game and I'm over here wanting more characters from Nintendo series that aren't represented at all.

The Nintendo franchises that are still unrepresented at this point are all trash tier.

 

[N3ON]

I only predict archetypes and Crash Bandicoot, right now. I have names I'm thinking because of popularity and possibly business potential, but nothing like Smash fandom OCD around reps is important.

For reference, I'm confident Crash will be Challenger Pack 1 or 3 out of these, so I'm ignoring him. Only limits I've set are Goku, SpongeBob and friends are out, DLC Mii Costumes are out, and anything known to have a Spirit Board event post-launch is out, with an asterisk on that last one because I think exactly one Galarian Pokémon still has a chance.

1. Somebody who is popular, but isn't widely associated with Nintendo. This character has the job of selling the pass to other people, who are not invested in Smash yet.
   1. Besides Crash, I could see Dante, Heihachi, 2B, Lara Croft, Sora, and if they manage to pull it off, Kratos.
2. Somebody who is from a series beloved in Japan, but isn't a very big request here. Maybe also having some doubt if they could get in. In their home country, they print money.
   1. Arle is my big guess here, but Reimu works. If we get a Tales character that's not Lloyd, my money's on Yuri, and he's going here.
3. Somebody who represents a major Smash fandom pick, or possibly another western fan favorite. Either way, they can be seen as a "reward" for this type of fandom.
   1. Again, besides Crash, I could see Master Chief, Steve, or perhaps a new character popular.
   2. Geno is the only character who fits Banjo's mold fully, but I believe his goose is cooked. But if it isn't, he, Rayman or Shantae could be here. Frisk goes here too, if Undertale doesn't get a Spirit Event before then.
4. The last third party character will not be as quite big today as the first three, but has a strong core following. Be it Nintendo history, another Smash fandom pick who's been on hard times, or iconic to the genre.
   1. Say, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, Lloyd Irving, Ryu Hayabusa go here.
5. This is the first of two Nintendo characters, and I think this will be our only promotion from a base game role.
   1. Waluigi, Paper Mario, Isaac, Bandana Waddle Dee, Rex or Rook.
6. This is the second of two Nintendo characters, and this is our ad. They're probably not going to be very well received, unless it's a Zelda newcomer.
   1. Euden, Urshifu*, BotW 2 newcomer, whoever it is, it could even be a Nintendo character we've never heard of.
   2. Urshifu specifically, rather than a starter, Toxtricity, Grimmsnarl or Dragapult, because this is our rep for Generation 8's DLC, not the base game. You can annul this if you think the corner case doesn't count.

Outside of bigger reveals going to E3 or being revealed near TGS (likely not AT TGS), these could really be in any order. But I think we're going to get archetypes moreso than any individual character, with the special exception of Crash who I find limited reasons to doubt and supple reasons to expect.

I don't disagree with your archetypes at large but I think it's funny that Chief is now apparently a Smash fandom pick instead of a character who is popular but not widely associated with Nintendo. Meanwhile Sora is not a Smash fandom pick, but I guess now a character not associated with Nintendo.

I, uh, I might consider swapping those two.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

I only predict archetypes and Crash Bandicoot, right now. I have names I'm thinking because of popularity and possibly business potential, but nothing like Smash fandom OCD around reps is important.

1. This is the second of two Nintendo characters, and this is our ad. They're probably not going to be very well received, unless it's a Zelda newcomer.
   1. Euden, Urshifu*, BotW 2 newcomer, whoever it is, it could even be a Nintendo character we've never heard of.
   2. Urshifu specifically, rather than a starter, Toxtricity, Grimmsnarl or Dragapult, because this is our rep for Generation 8's DLC, not the base game. You can annul this if you think the corner case doesn't count.

I honestly think that gen 8 is getting skipped for Smash representation. The last slot in the Fighter pass is almost 2 years out; it's entirely possible the Nintendo shill is a character from a game we don't even know about yet like a gen 4 remake

The Nintendo franchises that are still unrepresented at this point are all trash tier.

Preach

 

[Arcadenik]

B-but they have ATs! What do you mean you play with items off?

I mean, willfully ignoring a part of the game doesn't make it not exist.

We all know playable is the top goal for any character.

Mostly agreed, however we don't need three Links. I get they're all different incarnations, but really? Three? At least give Young his masks or something.

This is probably why people say Gen 3 and Gen 5 got nothing in Smash.

Turn on the Pokeball items and Gen 3 and Gen 5 Pokemon will appear.

But Proceleon is right, "we all know playable is the top goal for any character."

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The Nintendo franchises that are still unrepresented at this point are all trash tier.

When someone calls Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Astral Chain, ARMS, and Sin & Punishment trash tier.

 

[pinshadow]

That's not the lying part.

I played that stage. Anyone that says they have no problem telling which character is theirs in it is a despicable liar!

"I'm just gonna side-smash here, and hope when I let go of the stick, some of these guys will go away!"

The Nintendo franchises that are still unrepresented at this point are all trash tier.

This is the worst take I've seen in awhile, putting Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, and Advance Wars in Trash Tier, lmaoooooooo

 

[N3ON]

The Nintendo franchises that are still unrepresented at this point are all trash tier.

Just to be clear, you're the guy who wants characters from series that died thirty years ago, right?

 

[SvartWolf]

This is why we need an entire Capcom pass, Capcom has too much cool **** meaning no matter which Capcom character we see next there's like 20 other great ones around the corner

Agree

-Dante
-MonsterHunter
-Phoenix Wright
-Amateratsu
-Morrigan
-Chun Li

Would ld be one hell of a fighter pass IMO with extreme variety, popular games reped, and from diverse eras.

 

[Proceleon]

People always talk about giving more reps for series in the game and I'm over here wanting more characters from Nintendo series that aren't represented at all.

I feel that. I would give anything to have Endless Ocean in Smash in ANY form. Fighter, Stage, Spirit, Music, any form at all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I feel that. I would give anything to have Endless Ocean in Smash in ANY form. Fighter, Stage, Spirit, Music, any form at all.

I swear it already had Spirits
EDIT: Nope, turns out I was wring

 

[Cosmic77]

There's a few first-party franchises not on the roster that I'd like to see get a character eventually.

But yeah, most of what we have left falls into the C tier or lower. I'd prefer characters from more popular, existing franchises instead of cramming new ones in just for the sake of being able to say, "Hey, we have X number of franchises represented on the roster now!"

 

[Deleted member]

I personally think that maybe they’ll " throw a bone " to a character that’s already a Spirit or Assist and make them a Fighter in Vol. 2.
Keywords here are "maybe" and "hopefully."

 

[Proceleon]

I swear it already had Spirits

Nope, not one bit of Endless Ocean content there.

 

[Schnee117]

Mordred

Finally, some culture

Rillaboom? Lame.

Baboom? Win.

Zarude? Lose.

 

[Guynamednelson]

we all know playable is the top goal for any character

Exactly. It's not just because they have an icon on the character select screen, or because you don't have to turn items on to see them in-game, but because you get to see more of what they can do...most of the time. Dark Samus is an exception.

I'd prefer characters from more popular, existing franchises instead of cramming new ones in just for the sake of being able to say, "Hey, we have X number of franchises represented on the roster now!"

So, we should have a Pokemon chosen for its popularity instead of cramming in a Gen 8 mon just to say it has a fighter. Got it.

 

[HansShotFirst20]

When someone calls Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Golden Sun, Astral Chain, ARMS, and Sin & Punishment trash tier.

This is the worst take I've seen in awhile, putting Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, and Advance Wars in Trash Tier, lmaoooooooo

Those franchises are represented, though. Do you guys not play with AT's on?

 

[Playstation Guy 1000]

I personally think that maybe they’ll " throw a bone " to a character that’s already a Spirit or Assist and make them a Fighter in Vol. 2.
Keywords here are "maybe" and "hopefully."

I hope that's the case to at least one character.

 

[pinshadow]

Let's be honest here, the only reason people even consider franchises like Rhythm Heaven C-Tier is because THEY AERN'T IN SMASH. Seriously, Punch-Out, F-Zero, Mother, and Kid Icarus are all on that same level yet I don't see people acting like that for them because they have characters in the game. If Rhythm Heaven got a character in Smash 4 nobody would be calling them that right now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There's a few first-party franchises not on the roster that I'd like to see get a character eventually.

But yeah, most of what we have left falls into the C tier or lower. I'd prefer characters from more popular, existing franchises instead of cramming new ones in just for the sake of being able to say, "Hey, we have X number of franchises represented on the roster now!"

So add in more FE characters, got it

 

[N3ON]

Those franchises are represented, though. Do you guys not play with AT's on?

In Ultimate I play with ATs on sometimes and I'm still waiting for the Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Astral Chain and Sin & Punishment ones to pop up.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Those franchises are represented, though. Do you guys not play with AT's on?

Even when I do, I know Isaac should be represented with more than just puzzle-solving abilities.

 

[Opossum]

Those franchises are represented, though. Do you guys not play with AT's on?

Only ARMS and Golden Sun have Assists in Ultimate from the series in the posts you quoted.

 

[Proceleon]

Those franchises are represented, though. Do you guys not play with AT's on?

You play with items on? Filthy casual.

 

[Schnee117]

So, we should have a Pokemon chosen for its popularity instead of cramming in a Gen 8 mon just to say it has a fighter. Got it.

Umbreon confirmed.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm confident in saying in that if there's a 1st party character in this pass, it'll be from Dragalia Lost or a 2020 game that hasn't been revealed yet. Basically any 1st party game with no content in Ultimate yet.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Complaining about Trophies cut has always come off as weird to me. Like, trophies, perhaps more so than any other Smash content were very much a product of their times. When they debuted in Melee, they were an ideal way to educate the people playing about Nintendo's rich history and unique characters that weren't playable or in other roles in the game at a time when the internet wasn't as easily accessible...

But in today's world, genuinely whats the point of Trophies? You'll learn way more if you obtain a Spirit and just do a 2 second Google search than you ever could in Smash games because the internet has evolved to that point. Smash has already spent the past 20 years informing people about Nintendo's history and characters as well, so there's not as much of an incentive to go all in on making loads of 3D models for a huge variety of characters when that takes up a significant chunk of development time. Sure, it's a cute and charming thing to do, but there's minimal return on your investment and unfortunately you can't actually do much with a Trophy other than display it. Meanwhile, Spirit Battles actually take the concept of Trophies and just do them way better IMO. If you actually know your Nintendo and Third Party history, the Spirit Battles alone will have you grinning as you realize what unique references have been packed into a gameplay medium. Not all of them are winners, but it's always a joy to see a rather unique way of communicating information to the player through gameplay instead of a static model and text. A Jiggy Spirit translating to a collectathon on Great Cave Offensive for example is one of the best implementations of extra content I've seen in Smash period. And not all Spirits have battles, but I think the way Spirits have been implemented is far more in the Spirit of Ultimate's celebration of Smash content to Melee's defining theme of discovery of content. The fan base has had 20 years to discover and learn about all this wonderful content, so Ultimate celebrates it by being packed with references and nothing but nods to the fans. Hell, that's why Everyone is Here is so great, because it's the most direct acknowledgement Sakurai has ever made to the fans of the series.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Those franchises are represented, though. Do you guys not play with AT's on?

Only ARMS and Golden Sun have Assists in Ultimate from the series in the posts you quoted.

In Ultimate I play with ATs on sometimes and I'm still waiting for the Rhythm Heaven, Advance Wars, Astral Chain and Sin & Punishment ones to pop up.

And Advance Wars literally got their only AT removed in Ultimate. Golden Sun and Wars haven't both had ATs in the same game since Brawl.

 

[Opossum]

Let's be honest here, the only reason people even consider franchises like Rhythm Heaven C-Tier is because THEY AERN'T IN SMASH. Seriously, Punch-Out, F-Zero, Mother, and Kid Icarus are all on that same level yet I don't see people acting like that for them because they have characters in the game. If Rhythm Heaven got a character in Smash 4 nobody would be calling them that right now.

I agree with the general sentiment but personally I wouldn't put Punch-Out!! on that tier, but rather slightly above due to cultural significance.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Advance Wars took the worst mechanic in Fire Emblem and made it worse, no sympathy from me

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Advance Wars took the worst mechanic in Fire Emblem and made it worse, no sympathy from me

Advance Wars is also part of the reason Fire Emblem was even brought over to the west in the first place, alongside Melee.

 

[N3ON]

Complaining about Trophies cut has always come off as weird to me. Like, trophies, perhaps more so than any other Smash content were very much a product of their times. When they debuted in Melee, they were an ideal way to educate the people playing about Nintendo's rich history and unique characters that weren't playable or in other roles in the game at a time when the internet wasn't as easily accessible...

But in today's world, genuinely whats the point of Trophies? You'll learn way more if you obtain a Spirit and just do a 2 second Google search than you ever could in Smash games because the internet has evolved to that point. Smash has already spent the past 20 years informing people about Nintendo's history and characters as well, so there's not as much of an incentive to go all in on making loads of 3D models for a huge variety of characters when that takes up a significant chunk of development time. Sure, it's a cute and charming thing to do, but there's minimal return on your investment and unfortunately you can't actually do much with a Trophy other than display it. Meanwhile, Spirit Battles actually take the concept of Trophies and just do them way better IMO. If you actually know your Nintendo and Third Party history, the Spirit Battles alone will have you grinning as you realize what unique references have been packed into a gameplay medium. Not all of them are winners, but it's always a joy to see a rather unique way of communicating information to the player through gameplay instead of a static model and text. A Jiggy Spirit translating to a collectathon on Great Cave Offensive for example is one of the best implementations of extra content I've seen in Smash period. And not all Spirits have battles, but I think the way Spirits have been implemented is far more in the Spirit of Ultimate's celebration of Smash content to Melee's defining theme of discovery of content. The fan base has had 20 years to discover and learn about all this wonderful content, so Ultimate celebrates it by being packed with references and nothing but nods to the fans. Hell, that's why Everyone is Here is so great, because it's the most direct acknowledgement Sakurai has ever made to the fans of the series.

It'd be nice to see some characters realized in a 3D smash style. It's also nice collecting something a little more weighty and original than an existing png.

And yeah you could just see a spirit and go, "who dis" and google them, but people aren't going to do that for dozens of characters. The information was already just there for trophies, you could read one after the other. That's not really the spirit's fault, more just an opportunity that wasn't missed with trophies. Personally I was never really one for reading the summaries - but I know other people liked that.

Also, the spirit battle is something apart the spirit. The spirit battle could still exist with trophies, it'd just be a "trophy battle".

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Advance Wars is also part of the reason Fire Emblem was even brought over to the west in the first place, alongside Melee.

Idk man that means Advance Wars was responsible for Fates, a crime that cannot be forgiven

 

[N3ON]

Advance Wars took the worst mechanic in Fire Emblem and made it worse, no sympathy from me

There's no face-petting in Advance Wars tho