Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PeridotGX]

why do we even have these FE arguments? Nobody's mind will be changed, and it's the exact same points that were said in the last argument and will be said again in the next.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeeaah, I'm starting to think the whole 'Everyone is here' thing was a mistake.

Really? Over clones that don't take much effort to program in? It's either them or nothing, and I don't see the harm with more content.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeeaah, I'm starting to think the whole 'Everyone is here' thing was a mistake.

I agree, we should have gotten rid of all of your mains

 

[Proceleon]

Really? Over clones that don't take much effort to program in? It's either them or nothing, and I don't see the harm with more content.

Save that development time, seriously. I'd rather have no clones at all.

I agree, we should have gotten rid of all of your mains

Well, I've mained Trainer and I'd still be happy cutting all three of those characters, so joke's on you.

 

[Garteam]

Imagine the salt if Zelda gets a BotW2 character and it's just BotW Zelda.

 

[Opossum]

Save that development time, seriously. I'd rather have no clones at all.

The amount of development time a clone character takes wouldn't be enough to add more unique content in its place. Come on now, lmao.

 

[Deleted member]

Save that development time, seriously. I'd rather have no clones at all.

Development time for what? More clones?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

anyway uh... let's change the topic

Do you think FPV2 will open with a BIG HEAVY HITTER like Crash or Master Chief, a fan fave pick , or a curveball?

 

[MooMew64]

Doesn't really make Zelda's representation better though, a lot of series have multiple ATs. It's the standard.

I dunno, I personally don't think characters are the only thing that can represent a series. Smash has a ton of stuff in it and all kinds of fan service when you experience all it has to offer. Heck, part of what makes WoL so cool is the attention to detail on all the references it makes and how it cleverly uses things like the Mii Costumes and ATs in the battles. It's all really cool stuff. Classic Mode is also really great for this, especially with the bosses adding even further representation for different series. I mean, I play with items off too, but I sometimes I like to play with 'em on so I can appreciate all the hard work that went into 'em. Smash can be enjoyed in many different ways, and that's part of what makes it awesome.

...Plus, I'm not gonna lie, Smash with items can be just as sick as No Items Smash. The items and stages in this game can just make the craziest stuff happen, and when you're just in it for a good time, it's fantastic.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The amount of development time a clone character takes wouldn't be enough to add more unique content in its place. Come on now, lmao.

We have people who mock Dark Pit for having a palette swap design. The fact that he is one should've been enough proof that he didn't take anyone else's spot except...Blood Falcon I guess?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Imagine the salt if Zelda gets a BotW2 character and it's just BotW Zelda.

Considering all the memes about Zelda's ass I saw on twitter last week I don't think people would mind

 

[Opossum]

Imagine the salt if Zelda gets a BotW2 character and it's just BotW Zelda.

While she wouldn't be my preferred LoZ choice (that'd be Daruk), I'd honestly be okay with it. She's my favorite iteration of Zelda design-wise.

 

[N3ON]

Given how nobody really complains about Sheik, I think the whole one-off argument isn't the issue. The biggest issue is they keep remaking the Links and Zeldas for each Smash game and think that's enough for modern Zelda reps.

I'd like to believe differently, but it might be the case that Sakurai doesn't include a non-triforce Zelda character until the fans really make a ruckus about it. Which is trickier than the likes of K. Rool or something, because opinion is split across a number of worthwhile candidates.

I think Skull Kid is probably the most popular, but there's also Midna and Impa (among others - but I'd say those are the top three atm) and whatever new characters the future holds for the series.

If nothing else, loz did manage to unify some support behind Skull Kid, even if it was under dubious circumstances and full of weird revisionism. It will be interesting to see what comes of that large but fleeting wave of support once he's seen as possible again.

Yeeaah, I'm starting to think the whole 'Everyone is here' thing was a mistake.

It's not like if we didn't get YL back we would've got some new Zelda character.

And fwiw, there's no chance all three will stick around in the next game. At least one is getting the axe.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, I've mained Trainer and I'd still be happy cutting all three of those characters, so joke's on you.

Dude your endgoal isn't even consistent anymore. You're wanting representation and unique characters, and your plan for that is cutting representation and unique characters. At this point it sounds like, "The only good choices are my choices."

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Imagine the salt if Zelda gets a BotW2 character and it's just BotW Zelda.

What about Deku Link?

 

[Proceleon]

We have people who mock Dark Pit for having a palette swap design. The fact that he is one should've been enough proof that he didn't take anyone else's spot except...Blood Falcon I guess?

Oh no, I'm well aware Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit were added late because they were intended to just be Alts.... I just wish they'd stayed Alts.

 

[krokotopia101]

I agree, we should have gotten rid of all of your mains

I will be surprised as hell if I see people who would actually main and would deeply miss main is harsh. Deeply miss still stands.

 

[MooMew64]

Oh no, I'm well aware Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit were added late because they were intended to just be Alts.... I just wish they'd stayed Alts.

Like, why does it matter, though? They were gonna be in regardless, so why would them being in a character's costume options instead make it better? Not to be rude here, but I'm kind of confused what your point is?

 

[Proceleon]

Dude your endgoal isn't even consistent anymore. You're wanting representation and unique characters, and your goal for that is cutting representation and unique characters. At this point it sounds like, "The only good choices are my choices."

What? I'd be okay cutting Trainer in favour of someone from a different gen because Gen 1's over done. I spelled that out pages ago.

Like, why does it matter, though? They were gonna be in regardless, so why would them being in a character's costume options instead make it better? Not to be rude here, but I'm kind of confused what your point is?

If they've got such a minuscule difference between them, why bother? DP was literally only separate from Pit to have a different Final Smash. Hell, I'm fairly certain all of DP's moves were Customs for Pit. What's the point? Like adding Lucas when Ness' Customs already do everything Lucus does. It's just... why?

 

[Deleted member]

What? I'd be okay cutting Trainer in favour of someone from a different gen because Gen 1's over done. I spelled that out pages ago.

Isn't it better that we got both? We not only got Pokemon Trainer but a new gen Pokemon like Incineroar. This appeals to both crowds--those who missed Pokemon Trainer's gimmick and those who enjoyed Gen 7.

Going with your method gives us two Pokemon newcomers from the most recent titles, which is the same newcomer marketing strategy people criticize Fire Emblem for.

 

[MooMew64]

I will be surprised as hell if I see people who would actually main and would deeply miss main is harsh. Deeply miss still stands.

I like the Doc and would be bummed to see him go.

Just 'cause you don't like the character doesn't mean no one does.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I like to play with 'em on so I can appreciate all the hard work that went into 'em

Oh, I do appreciate the ones that do have fanserivce put into them. Which is stuff like Guile being campy, Kawasaki referencing Kirby's original FS or Sukapon being crudley animated like its original game, but not Isaac only using puzzle-solving Psynergy, Oshawott not using its Scalchop, or Starfy being the Goldeen of ATs.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Yeeaah, I'm starting to think the whole 'Everyone is here' thing was a mistake.

I've always thought it was a mistake sincce day one.
I prefer less content but better, quality over quantity.
For example, less characters but each one with an exclusive bossfight in classic mode, and all of them have an unique moveset, not even semiclones.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I love Everyone Is Here. I got all kinds of cool characters to play as. I missed Pichu a ton. Dr. Mario is one of my favorite clones and he has his own brand of uniqueness that Mario won't have because of F.L.U.D.D. alone. Besides that, he has different stats that mesh far better with me than regular Mario does, regardless of the Mario Tornado(if it were there instead).

 

[osby]

I think someone said this before but it's really ironic that some people come to a thread named Newcomer Speculation thread for talking about how much they want character cuts.

 

[Idon]

I've always thought it was a mistake sincce day one.
I prefer less content but better, quality over quantity.
For example, less characters but each one with an exclusive bossfight in classic mode, and all of them have an unique moveset, not even semiclones.

Bosses are one off things only fightable by only their respective characters. While I don't particularly care about Everyone is Here, the tradeoff being bosses most peopld stopped caring about in less than a week would be disappointing as hell.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I love Everyone Is Here. I got all kinds of cool characters to play as. I missed Pichu a ton. Dr. Mario is one of my favorite clones and he has his own brand of uniqueness that Mario won't have because of F.L.U.D.D. alone. Besides that, he has different stats that mesh far better with me than regular Mario does, regardless of the Mario Tornado(if it were there instead).

Ok but that meant characters I didn't like got in, how dare Sakurai not cater towards me, we should just get rid of all the characters I don't like, so 60 characters are just gone now

 

[Rie Sonomura]

anyway uh... let's change the topic

Do you think FPV2 will open with a BIG HEAVY HITTER like Crash or Master Chief, a fan fave pick , or a curveball?

ahem

thoughts, anyone?

 

[PeridotGX]

Oh no, I'm well aware Lucina, Dr. Mario and Dark Pit were added late because they were intended to just be Alts.... I just wish they'd stayed Alts.

The tiny amount of work they put into the echoes just makes them slightly more like their original version. Making them alts does literally nothing but make them less faithful.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I will be surprised as hell if I see people who would actually main and would deeply miss main is harsh. Deeply miss still stands.

Dr. Mario is great. Just wished he had used some custom special moves like the Ol' One two, Mega Capsule and Shocking cape just to differentiate him more from regular Mario.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

anyway uh... let's change the topic

Do you think FPV2 will open with a BIG HEAVY HITTER like Crash or Master Chief, a fan fave pick , or a curveball?

Depends when FP6 comes.

March/April could be anyone though more around the lines of someone like 2B, Dante, Heihachi, Travis Touchdown, etc. Someone really wanted but not heavily requested.

E3 I feel will be an heavy hitter such as Crash, Master Chief or Steve.

 

[N3ON]

I dunno, I personally don't think characters are the only thing that can represent a series. Smash has a ton of stuff in it and all kinds of fan service when you experience all it has to offer. Heck, part of what makes WoL so cool is the attention to detail on all the references it makes and how it cleverly uses things like the Mii Costumes and ATs in the battles. It's all really cool stuff. Classic Mode is also really great for this, especially with the bosses adding even further representation for different series. I mean, I play with items off too, but I sometimes I like to play with 'em on so I can appreciate all the hard work that went into 'em. Smash can be enjoyed in many different ways, and that's part of what makes it awesome.

...Plus, I'm not gonna lie, Smash with items can be just as sick as No Items Smash. The items and stages in this game can just make the craziest stuff happen, and when you're just in it for a good time, it's fantastic.

I agree representation isn't just found through playability, but it's not like there are 10 Zelda ATs to offset the characters. There are a normal amount for a series like that, which doesn't really move the needle in terms of playability out of the deficit by overcompensating in another category.

The crux here is really that "but Zelda has a normal amount of other content" - and it's great that that also isn't subpar, but it being normal doesn't elevate the other stuff, it just normalizes everything else.

Even if Zelda gets a passing grade in terms of ATs and stages and music, the character selection as it is (which, let's not lie, is the most important category) mean it's still falling short of where it could be. You'd really need the ATs and stages to start picking up a lot of slack to even it out, which they aren't doing. And that's fine, it's not like that's expected, but it still leaves the series looking underwhelming to most.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Dr. Mario is great. Just wished he had used some custom special moves like the Ol' One two, Mega Capsule and Shocking cape just to differentiate him more from regular Mario.

I'd prefer a reference to the viruses thrown in there somewhere.

 

[MooMew64]

I think someone said this before but it's really ironic that some people come to a thread named Newcomer Speculation thread for talking about how much they want character cuts.

It's the idea that "If that character wasn't in, mine would be instead".

Like, I respect people having differing opinions on this, but I gotta say I really don't think that if "Everyone is here!" wasn't done that we would've somehow gotten a bunch of other content or that things would be radically and totally different. That's just me, though.

 

[pinshadow]

I dunno, I personally don't think characters are the only thing that an represent a series. Smash has a ton of stuff in it and all kinds of fan service when you experience all it has to offer. Heck, part of what makes WoL so cool is the attention to detail on all the references it makes and how it cleverly uses things like the Mii Costumes and ATs in the battles. It's all really cool stuff. Classic Mode is also really great for this, especially with the bosses adding even further representation for different series. I mean, I play with items off too, but I sometimes I like to play with 'em on so I can appreciate all the hard work that went into 'em. Smash can be enjoyed in many different ways, and that's part of what makes it awesome.

...Plus, I'm not gonna lie, Smash with items can be just as sick as No Items Smash. The items and stages in this game can just make the craziest stuff happen, and when you're just in it for a good time, it's fantastic.

As someone who makes it his first priority to listen to the music over anything else in Smash when a new character gets released, who loves playing with items on all the different wacky stages, and thinks spirit battles are unironically the best addition to single player Smash in years, characters are still the most important thing by a mile.

Smash is just so big and important at this point that being a character in Smash is a MASSIVE deal. Fire Emblem only came to the west at all because of Smash (also Advance Wars and people overlook that in my eyes but the point stands). Kid Icarus Uprising exists because of Smash Bros. You know why people keep asking for Persona on Switch, why I've heard people talking about some kind of 3D Platformer Ice Climbers reboot for the last decade, why people won't shut up about Rare Replay on Switch? Because they are playable in Smash Brothers. Seriously, I highly doubt the Earthbound fandom and the push for Mother 3 would be even half as strong as it is if Ness and Lucas weren't in Smash. I've seen so many people playing Persona, Castlevania, Dragon Quest, and plenty of other franchises for the first time just because of Smash Brothers. I just wish they would try and actively use the promotional power of Smash on a dead Nintendo franchise again like Golden Sun, Advance Wars, or Custom Robo, nobody is going to play them or be motivated to make a new game because Isaac is an assist trophy. It feels like the only franchises they try and actively use it for are, again, Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

 

[Proceleon]

I've always thought it was a mistake sincce day one.
I prefer less content but better, quality over quantity.
For example, less characters but each one with an exclusive bossfight in classic mode, and all of them have an unique moveset, not even semiclones.

The only thing I want battle-wise is a story mode. Literally just story mode. WOL sucked.

 

[Deleted member]

I've always thought it was a mistake sincce day one.
I prefer less content but better, quality over quantity.
For example, less characters but each one with an exclusive bossfight in classic mode, and all of them have an unique moveset, not even semiclones.

I think most people disagree, because that "mistake" raked in millions of dollars from consumers. Maximillian Dood said it best. "Characters sell games," which is why Ultimate is the ultimate Smash Bros game. It's roster is massive, conveys nostalgia for older Smash games, and brings in a ton of new IPs along with it.

A stressful topic before Ultimate's reveal was "Who was going to get cut?" The answer that ended up shocking millions was "Nobody."

 

[Guynamednelson]

"Everyone is here!" wasn't done that we would've somehow gotten a bunch of other content or that things would be radically and totally different

One thing to keep in mind that the most likely characters not to come back are clones, had everyone not been here. Not bringing back low-effort fighters doesn't necessarily speed up development time for alternate content, unless you have certain clone ideas that didn't make it in.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

View attachment 264224
why do we even have these FE arguments? Nobody's mind will be changed, and it's the exact same points that were said in the last argument and will be said again in the next.

Because we never learn.

And even if we do, there's always going to be someone new who brings it up again because they have an opiniontm and that opinion has to be correct, leading them to assert that opinion as fact despite multiple people debunking them. This stirs up both sides, thus leading to that topic being argued about again even though it was resolved weeks ago. And the cycle continues.

We're stuck like this for another two years.

 

[Deleted member]

Because we never learn.

And even if we do, there's always going to be someone new who brings it up again because they have an opiniontm and that opinion has to be correct, leading them to assert that opinion as fact despite multiple people debunking them. This stirs up both sides, thus leading to that topic being brought up again. And the cycle continues.

We're stuck like this for another two years.

You know you love it, masochist.