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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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Cosmic77

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Did you see my post on how the Smash 4 Ballot turned out, Cosmic77 Cosmic77
There were a lot of meme requests, but I think people exaggerate how prevalent they were. Making a comment on Twitter or Miiverse for laughs and giggles is one thing, but I'd be surprised if many people genuinely took the time to submit a request for John Cena and Cory Baxter.
 
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TheCJBrine

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If you think those things are likely, that's fine. But the problem lies on goalpost moving; at this point in time, all of those things have a reasonable amount of doubt in them. Enough for an average person to dismiss them even; there's a reason why everyone EXCEPT the Geno thread doesn't talk about it. Yet, a ton of people on there get upset when an outsider disagrees with them on Geno's chances.

Again, if you think Geno's likely. That's fine.

But if you go full:
View attachment 261617
trying to justify his inclusion, then it just ends up being annoying most of the time.
Tbh I don’t really care if the leaks are real or not, I don’t know if they are and they wouldn’t do much for Geno without us already knowing he’s in before seeing if they’re real. Cacomallow does have things against it but nothing definitive imo, the other one seems likely because of what the dude got right but idk.

And:

Oh, I don’t do that, but they don’t seem to either...maybe sometimes, but it usually seems to be when arguing with people who join in just to say he can’t/won’t happen, otherwise it seems like regular arguing like in this thread...which feels about the same aside from Geno Thread negativity and not as many theory ideas done for fun.
 
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Guynamednelson

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Since people are talking about spirits anyway, I want to mention that the main reason I'm wary of upgrades it that I suspect a second season was planned from the beginning and they merely chose to reveal it later; because of that most people have defaulted to assuming that they must have decided upon it some time after the game's release.

Whenever I ask for proof that this is the case I'm always hit with speculation and conjecture. Does anyone have any definitive proof, or statement, that confirms that season 2 was something they decided later? I would really appreciate it.
I only assume the basic concept of further DLC was planned out, not who it would consist of.
 

Cutie Gwen

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Tbh I don’t really care if the leaks are real or not, I don’t know if they are and they wouldn’t do much for Geno without us already knowing he’s in before seeing if they’re real. Cacomallow does have things against it but nothing definitive imo, the other one seems likely because of what the dude got right but idk.

And:

Oh, I don’t do that, but they don’t seem to either...maybe sometimes, but it usually seems to be when arguing with people who join in just to say he can’t/won’t happen, otherwise it seems like regular arguing like in this thread...which isn’t any better imo.
You have to let Cacomallow go, his death in the crash wasn't your fault
 

TheCJBrine

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You have to let Cacomallow go, his death in the crash wasn't your fault
But it really has nothing definitive against it, though Nintendo’s lack of action does make it look unlikely, though it did originate from 4chan and they’ve missed some other stuff...

But, yeah, don’t really care much anymore.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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But it really has nothing definitive against it, though Nintendo’s lack of action does make it look unlikely, though it did originate from 4chan and they’ve missed some other stuff...
Bro people who actually know how modeling works have proven that it's biggest defence doesn't actually exist, "It'd be cool if true" is the only reason it's still gotten any attention and people who don't know anything about how making a model works just refuse to believe it
 

Cosmic77

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We should get more info regarding Fighter Pass 2 when the next Famitsu column is released. Sakurai specifically said that would be his next topic, and I can't imagine there being much else he could talk about aside from when and how it happened.

I don't think the second pass was planned at launch though, and even if it was, I doubt they had specific characters planned. Wouldn't surprise me if they didn't make it official until around Joker's release.
 

TheCJBrine

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Bro people who actually know how modeling works have proven that it's biggest defence doesn't actually exist, "It'd be cool if true" is the only reason it's still gotten any attention and people who don't know anything about how making a model works just refuse to believe it
Just because it can be made doesn’t mean it isn’t real though. Modders could recreate official Mii stuff if they could get it to work. One of the modders who ported a Mallow hat or something from Smash 4 still said it was hard to get the texture to load right at a good quality or something without crashing the game.

Besides, like I said, I really don’t care if it’s real or not, it’s not a big deal and I’m not leaning one way or the other. I’m not even the one who first brought it up, I just said what I thought about it in a reply. Don’t see what the big deal is anyway, no one is hardcore pushing it anymore.
 
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DaybreakHorizon

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Just because it can be made doesn’t mean it isn’t real though. Modders could recreate official Mii stuff if they could get it to work. One of the modders who ported a Mallow hat or something from Smash 4 still said it was hard to get the texture to load right at a good quality or something without crashing the game.

Besides, like I said, I really don’t care if it’s real or not, it’s not a big deal and I’m not leaning one way or the other. I’m not even the one who first brought it up, I just said what I thought about it in a reply. Don’t see what the big deal is anyway, no one is hardcore pushing it anymore.

Recreating it gives reason to doubt the mod since it can, you know, be modded in.

In case you didn't check the RTC thread, there are people still very much pushing Cacomallow when there's a lot going against it right now.
 

Icedragonadam

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Recreating it gives reason to doubt the mod since it can, you know, be modded in.

In case you didn't check the RTC thread, there are people still very much pushing Cacomallow when there's a lot going against it right now.
And here I thought the interview which puts the nail on Doom Slayer's coffin would put that rumor to rest.
 

DevaAshera

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Smash 4 proved to me why we don't need a second ballot. People are gonna go berserk when the final character gets revealed and it's not who they want.

Sakurai isn't dumb though. He didn't need a ballot to tell him Ridley and K. Rool were popular requests, and if he did, then he hasn't been paying much attention to Smash speculation.
You're really not wrong..all the Ballot did was show who was popular regardless of apparent fan demand.
 

MisterMike

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A lot of them still support the Cacomallow costumes (happened 4 months ago), the Mii costume list (happened in July), and the music take-downs (happened in May). All of these things have several points against them by this point (although I guess it could still be true).
I can only really speak for myself and my own experiences with this, but the only criticisms people ever give for any of these rumors are "Well, it could be fake, though." and "It's been X amount of time and it hasn't been proven 100% real, so it's fake.". When these are the only counter arguments people provide to this ****, and all the evidence in favor of them being real is so much stronger, I really don't blame people for thinking they may most likely be real.

When you call them out on some of their outlandish theories. They always say the same thing too, "Geno fans are always the butt of the joke in the Smash fanbase".
That's not even true. Again, speaking from my experience, whenever someone provides a counter to things that I've said, I always make sure to counter their counters with my own arguments. I'll admit, plenty of people in that thread are way too sensitive to criticism, even saying that very same phrase at points, but I've never seen someone resort to that line of reasoning just for having their theories disagreed with. I get the feeling that you're misremembering things.

But since we're on the topic of Genobros having a persecution complex, I honestly don't think it's inaccurate for them to think that given, whenever they bring up Geno or any rumors or arguments that lean in his favor, you have several people willing to constantly **** on them for it with the same tired arguments that Banjobros and Ridleybros has to deal with. You don't see this **** happen to other support groups, you don't see people saying **** like "UGH, I'm so sick of people talking about Sora! Why do these people think that Sora even has a chance?", or "Wow, these people actually buy into those stupid rumors and theories about Dante coming to Smash? How delusional do you have to be to think he has a chance?", or "Given that we already have a Microsoft costume in the game, it's likely Master Chief will just be an Upgraded Mii Costume like Cuphead was."

Comments like this seem to be exclusive to Geno and his supporters, and I really don't get it. What did Genobros do to piss you guys off this much? Is there actually a solid reason, or is it just the same issue people had with Banjobros, that which being you're sick of hearing about him all the time when you don't think he has a chance or simply don't care?

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was when I (along with others) disagreed with F**m*n's terrible theory of "Sora being ineligible for Smash because he lacks Nintendo relevance, therefore Geno is more likely because Sora is Geno's primary competitor". Some people complained because I was criticizing a theory that supports Geno. It was then I realized that it's probably better to leave them to themselves.

Most of the time, when the thread is talking about SMRPG/Geno or Smash in general, it's fine and I enjoy it. But when the conversations shifts to Geno in Smash/theorycrafting; it becomes a huge circlejerk about the same talking points over and over again.
So wait... you're telling me that you left the thread because you felt that it's a circlejerk about the same dumb ****, but then decide to frequent another thread that is itself a circlejerk about the same dumb ****? I mean, that's fine I guess, no reason to stick around if you don't like it, but I can't help but find that a bit... hyopcritical? I dunno.

Bro people who actually know how modeling works have proven that it's biggest defence doesn't actually exist, "It'd be cool if true" is the only reason it's still gotten any attention and people who don't know anything about how making a model works just refuse to believe it

Recreating it gives reason to doubt the mod since it can, you know, be modded in.

In case you didn't check the RTC thread, there are people still very much pushing Cacomallow when there's a lot going against it right now.
Then why hasn't it been replicated? If it's so easy to do, why hasn't someone made an accurate recreation of it? The main argument people use against it is that "Well, modding is a thing. People could easily fake it.", but nobody has been able to point me to anything that looks as good as what's seen in those videos and in the image. That's why I'm not willing to dismiss it.

And here I thought the interview which puts the nail on Doom Slayer's coffin would put that rumor to rest.
It doesn't mean we couldn't see any DOOM content in Smash whatsoever, it just means that Doomguy is probably not getting in as a fighter.
 

TheCJBrine

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Recreating it gives reason to doubt the mod since it can, you know, be modded in.

In case you didn't check the RTC thread, there are people still very much pushing Cacomallow when there's a lot going against it right now.
I understand why people doubt it, I just personally think it could go either way, I’m just saying what I think about it. It wasn’t 100% recreated anyway, and they could possibly recreate official Mii hats. I’ve seen the Mallow hat videos, too, though maybe the modder just said the texture was just the hardest part, idk.

And I apologize, I guess maybe a few are pushing it though I feel maybe some are just arguing how it could be real, idk. I just don’t see any reason to take it so seriously and for y’all to get on my case about it when I’ve even said I don’t care about it. Did I ever say it’s real and y’all should think it’s real? No I didn’t, I just argued why it isn’t definitely fake or doesn’t seem so imo. It’s not unreasonable to think it could be real...and as I said, I don’t care, I didn’t even bring it up first, I just said what I thought about it. And now it feels like y’all want me to accept it as 100% fake, no questions asked...
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I can only really speak for myself and my own experiences with this, but the only criticisms people ever give for any of these rumors are "Well, it could be fake, though." and "It's been X amount of time and it hasn't been proven 100% real, so it's fake.". When these are the only counter arguments people provide to this ****, and all the evidence in favor of them being real is so much stronger, I really don't blame people for thinking they may most likely be real.


That's not even true. Again, speaking from my experience, whenever someone provides a counter to things that I've said, I always make sure to counter their counters with my own arguments. I'll admit, plenty of people in that thread are way too sensitive to criticism, even saying that very same phrase at points, but I've never seen someone resort to that line of reasoning just for having their theories disagreed with. I get the feeling that you're misremembering things.

But since we're on the topic of Genobros having a persecution complex, I honestly don't think it's inaccurate for them to think that given, whenever they bring up Geno or any rumors or arguments that lean in his favor, you have several people willing to constantly **** on them for it with the same tired arguments that Banjobros and Ridleybros has to deal with. You don't see this **** happen to other support groups, you don't see people saying **** like "UGH, I'm so sick of people talking about Sora! Why do these people think that Sora even has a chance?", or "Wow, these people actually buy into those stupid rumors and theories about Dante coming to Smash? How delusional do you have to be to think he has a chance?", or "Given that we already have a Microsoft costume in the game, it's likely Master Chief will just be an Upgraded Mii Costume like Cuphead was."

Comments like this seem to be exclusive to Geno and his supporters, and I really don't get it. What did Genobros do to piss you guys off this much? Is there actually a solid reason, or is it just the same issue people had with Banjobros, that which being you're sick of hearing about him all the time when you don't think he has a chance or simply don't care?


So wait... you're telling me that you left the thread because you felt that it's a circlejerk about the same dumb ****, but then decide to frequent another thread that is itself a circlejerk about the same dumb ****? I mean, that's fine I guess, no reason to stick around if you don't like it, but I can't help but find that a bit... hyopcritical? I dunno.



Then why hasn't it been replicated? If it's so easy to do, why hasn't someone made an accurate recreation of it? The main argument people use against it is that "Well, modding is a thing. People could easily fake it.", but nobody has been able to point me to anything that looks as good as what's seen in those videos and in the image. That's why I'm not willing to dismiss it.


It doesn't mean we couldn't see any DOOM content in Smash whatsoever, it just means that Doomguy is probably not getting in as a fighter.
Oh no, you're right, it hasn't been fully replicated, therefore it must be real! Let me talk to people who actually know how to model stuff and how modelling actually works as their careers involve making models.

They said you can't fully replicate any model out of scratch at all. But you're so clever, you outwitted trained professionals with FACTS and LOGIC here, you must be very proud of yourself for knowing more about modelling than people who went to college and learned about how to model, don't you.

Unless of course you're just going to ignore this tidbit like every other time it ever gets brought up by some Geno Cultist
 

Dinoman96

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Honestly I do feel like Sakurai didn't really think of K. Rool very much until the ballot.

Like look at Ridley and you'll notice had a signifcant role in each Smash prior to Ultimate.



From a cameo in Planet Zebe's background, to a cameo in the opening to Melee, to not one but two different boss fights in SSE, to appearing a boss hazard with a stock icon on Pyrosphere. Sakurai has always been aware of Ridley's significance and popularity, it's just that he didn't think he could do the character justice as a small playable fighter.

Meanwhile, with K. Rool...



All he ever got prior to the Smash 4 ballot was trophy cameos.
 

Chaosmaster8753

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So is the most we can expect from the upcoming column more details giving insight into the how's and why's of the decision making process of these passes?
 

Idon

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So is the most we can expect from the upcoming column more details giving insight into the how's and why's of the decision making process of these passes?
Dunno about that, but the least we can expect is everyone to over-analyze every word Sakurai says and twist them to make it seem like their favored character is more likely to get in.

At least that's what I'm gonna do.
 

TwiceEXE

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In case anyone isn't aware, modelling a 3D object based off a few seconds of a grainy video of a screen captured by a cell phone, is VERY hard. It's hard to recreate an object even when you have a good source for the original.

Cacomallow was created in a very deliberate way to fool people into believing it. There is a reason Ken was used with his same pose as the Ken leak. There is a reason the timer was set how it was. There is a reason the footage was captured poorly. There is a reason that the poster disappeared after promising more footage.

It's fake just like other 4chan leaks. This one simply put some effort into it.
 

TheCJBrine

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Oh no, you're right, it hasn't been fully replicated, therefore it must be real! Let me talk to people who actually know how to model stuff and how modelling actually works as their careers involve making models.

They said you can't fully replicate any model out of scratch at all. But you're so clever, you outwitted trained professionals with FACTS and LOGIC here, you must be very proud of yourself for knowing more about modelling than people who went to college and learned about how to model, don't you.

Unless of course you're just going to ignore this tidbit like every other time it ever gets brought up by some Geno Cultist
He wasn’t saying it was definitely real. Just like I wasn’t saying it was and was just saying how it doesn’t seem 100% fake, so I’m also not dismissing it and was just saying what I thought about it and how I personally didn’t care either way. Maybe you can’t replicate the models, but the originals still haven’t come out anyway, and it seems they could make official-looking models with enough attention to detail.

I understand y’all doubting it, but good gosh, y’all seem to put down the people who humor it in anyway/just can’t accept that people think it has a chance and y’all were like this even not long after it first came. I even said I didn’t really care if it was real or not and why I didn’t care, and thought it was clear I didn’t lean either way, and you still bothered me about it...

And the Geno thread and other Geno fans aren’t a bunch of frickin cultists. You know what, this thread isn’t any better than what y’all say about the Geno thread, what with y’all trying to force us to treat something as definitely fake and putting Geno fans down every chance y’all get...not even just Geno stuff, some other things too I swear...
 
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Hadokeyblade

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Personally I feel really bad for Geno's fans, out of all the subfandoms in smash they really seem like they are doing the hardest to be hopeful for his inclusion and it feels like they are setting themselves up for disappointment big time.

Honestly I do feel like Sakurai didn't really think of K. Rool very much until the ballot.

Like look at Ridley and you'll notice had a signifcant role in each Smash prior to Ultimate.



From a cameo in Planet Zebe's background, to a cameo in the opening to Melee, to not one but two different boss fights in SSE, to appearing a boss hazard with a stock icon on Pyrosphere. Sakurai has always been aware of Ridley's significance and popularity, it's just that he didn't think he could do the character justice as a small playable fighter.

Meanwhile, with K. Rool...



All he ever got prior to the Smash 4 ballot was trophy cameos.
Maybe it's because Krool was pretty much a dead character before Ultimate? It's not like Nintendo was actively using the character
 
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So is the most we can expect from the upcoming column more details giving insight into the how's and why's of the decision making process of these passes?
That's pretty much how it's looking right now. Whether or not FP6 gets revealed, I certainly believe there's a good amount of things to say about how Vol 2 came to be and how there's 6 instead of 5.
 

The Rhythm Theif

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That's pretty much how it's looking right now. Whether or not FP6 gets revealed, I certainly believe there's a good amount of things to say about how Vol 2 came to be and how there's 6 instead of 5.
Well, if a Direct happens sometime (not now, not tomorrow, but in the future), we'll find out what it will contain. If there's no Smash in the Direct, then we'll have to wait.
 
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