Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Guynamednelson]

Really? I didn't know... Could you please tell me what spirit did they change? This is pretty interesting.

Dimitri and Hilda from The Legend of Zelda got their series' name added to their spirits' names.

 

[pinshadow]

Really? I didn't know... Could you please tell me what spirit did they change? This is pretty interesting.

There were actually 2, Hilda and Dimitri from Zelda had the distinction added onto their names after they added the Fire Emblem spirits.

 

[TheCJBrine]

It still represents **** from their respective games. How hard is it to understand that? Spirits are represented by actual gameplay, trophies never had to coexist with gameplay

I thought we were talking which better represents the characters, though? I agree the spirits are nice and have cool and fun references and offer some good representation, I’m just saying the characters themselves were better as trophies at least when it comes to who they are imo. They still both serve nearly the same purpose, and I don’t see why Sakurai would say no if Nintendo wanted one as a character if it happens or say “eh...they’re already a spirit” if they cross his mind as a character if he can pick one, as it shouldn’t be a big deal considering what they’ve already done with there being multiple different spirits of the same character.

Really? I didn't know... Could you please tell me what spirit did they change? This is pretty interesting.

It was the spirit of Dimitri from LoZ’s Oracle games. They had to add the series or game title to its name because of Dimitri from Three Houses.

edit: Greninjas strike again. Didn’t know about Hilda (Wait, no...I think I knew but forgot or didn’t realize)

 

[Garteam]

The lore argument is the easily the weakest anti-spirit argument, as we already have characters like K. Rool and Wii Fit Trainer who appear both as a fighter and a spirit. Unless K. Rool managed to clone himself, there's really no explanation for this lore wise.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

You know I always come late to stuff right? Despite being a huge Adeleine supporter, I got Kirby Star Allies only a few weeks ago, and now, after having played as her, I need Adeleine in Smash even more.
All the characters added by the updates are cool, but Adeleine is special, I can't stop improving her Soul Melter EX record over and over (currently I did it in about 18 minutes and stuff, and there's still some room for improvements - obviously Adeleine solo/no cpu and without using Amiibos).

And well, I waited for a decent discount to get Kirby Star Allies, because people online said it was short, the helpers play for you, levels look generic, and stuff... but I enjoyed it a lot, it's way better than I thought, especially thanks to the content added by the updates (already spent more than 100 hours in it).

She would be the same type as Villager, a character about taking control of the stage and placing traps, but the concept would be pushed to extreme. Also another cool thing is that all the stuff she draws is a reference to some boss or enemy or character from the Kirby series, and that there's no limits in what she can draw (they can give her a completely different set of summons compared to Star Allies, because there's not a main canon one, aside of the recurring Kracko and Ice Dragon, she always drew different enemies in each game where she appeared, including Dark Matter once).
Placing enemies and traps on the stage feels like if you are designing a Kirby level while fighting, so she would not only represent the character herself, but also the environment in those games.
Ribbon can still add variety... in Star Allies they still didn't fully explore what Ribbon and the Crystal can do, and Smash can expand on this (in the cutscenes of Kirby 64 the crystal is shown shooting lasers, opening star portals and traveling in the space like a rocket, nothing of this has been used in Star Allies).

This is what I've been saying for years. I remember when Battle Royale was teased (and fell flat) I speculated a multiplayer action game could easily meld quite a few of Kirby's cast into Smash movesets on its own, and Star Allies absolutely proved that. Kirby and Smash share similar DNA, I think it's ridiculous there isn't more of a connection beyond that.

 

[Cosmic77]

I mean, Sakurai clearly said Trophies were cut to save development time. It's hard to say Spirits are easily superior when the sole reason they exist is to save time.

Spirits are cool in their own right, but it doesn't really matter if they make a cool reference somewhere in the Spirit battle. There's still a lot of stuff Spirits are lacking that Trophies had. A basic description of the character is one of them.

 

[Droodle]

Watch a spirit/assist trophy get upgraded...
But it's someone that no one asked for.
And then no upgrades happen for the rest of the pass.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Back in Smash 4 we had trophies arriving with the DLC. In Ultimate, however, we have spirits instead. One interesting thing I noticed is that the stages for the DLC characters in Ultimate have a lot of character cameos and 3D models. Perhaps this is Sakurai's way of bringing back trophies but in an unofficial manner for the DLC characters? I don't expect every DLC character from now to have character cameos in their stages but it's something interesting to think about.

 

[Curious Villager]

Most trophies from Brawl onwards are taken straight from their source games and aren't made from scratch, If a character never had a 3D model prior, their mostly fresh out of luck.
Their generally given a nice pose and blurb attached to it though.

Spirits are official artworks or renders taken from their source games with a battle that references said given spirit in question.
Aside from the battle itself, you're not really given much info about the character in question, but on the bright side, pretty much any character can be given a reference, regardless if they have had a 3D model before or not.

Personally, I think they should have at least given spirits a description and they would have made a fine replacement for trophies imo.

Put the character 3D models onto the actual stages themselves instead to cheer you on or do stuff in the background, much like they've been doing with the new DLC stages, I think that adds a nice bit of extra fanservice while also making the stages feel more lively.

But that's just me..,

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Watch a spirit/assist trophy get upgraded...
But it's someone that no one asked for.
And then no upgrades happen for the rest of the pass.

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

Watch a spirit/assist trophy get upgraded...
But it's someone that no one asked for.
And then no upgrades happen for the rest of the pass.

and it's gonna be yet another fire emblem character

 

[Guynamednelson]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

Pac-Man.

Wait, ****...

 

[MooMew64]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

Balloon Fight time peck yeah let's go.

 

[Faso115]

Everyone mentions Hilda and Dimitri but no one acknowledges my boys Riki and Riki

 

[Droodle]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

Spoiler: He's in

LETS GOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wunderwaft]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

https://smashultimatespirits.com/details.php?id=984

I would be totally down with this. Guile is cool as hell.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

I picked Zero of course. Also I like how they did the Spirit view similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee!

 

[MooMew64]

Gooigi still lacks a spirit.

Just sayin'.

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

huh, i'd actually be down for this

 

[pinshadow]

Gooigi still lacks a spirit.

Just sayin'.

Luigi's Mansion 3 is pretty much the only Nintendo published game since Ultimate's release not to get some sort of Spirit Event/Representation. Whether or not this actually means anything, we'll have to see.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Spoiler: moment of truth

View attachment 261597
huh, I'd actually be down for this

The Great Cave Offensive from Kirby Super Star/Kirby Super Star Ultra, anybody?

 

[SKX31]

Geno is now or never, but TBH even with that I feel personally that the odds aren't too high.

He has Sakurai admitting he was interested in putting him in, but apathy from his parent company Square Enix combined with his incredibly niche appeal and appearance in a grand total of...one game, with a cameo in one that got removed in a remake? I dunno, doesn't seem to me Nintendo or Square are that interested, and given Nintendo are the ones calling the shots with DLC in the end, I'd be surprised personally if Geno even crossed their minds. I really feel Geno's only true shot is if Sakurai himself pushed for it and got Nintendo on board, because I've gotta be honest, there's not much going for him in my eyes other than that.

I could be wrong, of course: This is just all my own speculation looking at the current trends, but if I were a Geno supporter, I would hope for the best, but definitely prepare for the worst.

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):

Main Character Design

• Kiyofumi Kato
• Yuko Hatae

Monster Character Design and Character Supervisor

• Kazuyuki Kurashima

Character Advisor

• Yoichi Kotabe

Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

 

[TheCJBrine]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

She’s coming.
https://smashultimatespirits.com/details.php?id=742

 

[Schnee117]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

Are y'all ready for Link... 4!!!

 

[Idon]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

"Who the hell is this Saki guy? Eh whatever, not like anyone cares about him"

 

[pinshadow]

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):



Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

Except the fact that Geno is LITERALLY IN THE GAME ALREADY. He had a DLC Costume last game too. There's no legal stuff stopping Geno, it's literally just whether or not Nintendo decides to put him in.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

SKX31 I had to, mate, I'm sorry! XD

 

[Faso115]

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):



Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

Well thats something. Still much easier to get than Sora

Makes me wonder about how difficult is 2B by comparison. Im willing to bet Yoko Taro is far easier to work with

 

[TheCJBrine]

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):



Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

Except the fact that Geno is LITERALLY IN THE GAME ALREADY. He had a DLC Costume last game too. There's no legal stuff stopping Geno, it's literally just whether or not Nintendo decides to put him in.

Yeah, it seems like Geno and his content should be easy if they want him as long as SE plays ball, the designers seem like they would be cool with it/wouldn’t charge too much if they still own rights. FF doesn’t even have any costumes or spirits aside from Smash 4’s Chocobo costume; Cloud’s Fighter spirit is just his Ultimate render and nothing else. I doubt SMRPG’s legal stuffs are a big problem. When it comes to music, too, as Yoko is onboard.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Spirits don't disconfirm a character to me, but I also think Sakurai considers spirits and assist trophies as sufficient ways of representing certain series and characters and would look more towards adding new series through DLC characters, as he mentioned. Obviously, Byleth shows series with content previously can come in through DLC, but it makes sense as a general rule of thumb when forming expectations.

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

Starlow, and then it's a Pac-Man echo, completely devastating Ms. Pac-Man.

Kirby would make more sense proportion wise, but that was my first thought when seeing the character for the first time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

Not Shanoa but you know what?

This is fine

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Not Shanoa but you know what?
View attachment 261600
This is fine

 

[MooMew64]

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):



Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

Holy crud, I never knew that! I never even considered that SE's nightmare copyright distributions could affect Geno!

Props for compiling all of this. There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff to unpack here.

 

[pinshadow]

Holy crud, I never knew that! I never even considered that SE's nightmare copyright distributions could affect Geno!

Props for compiling all of this. There's definitely a lot of interesting stuff to unpack here.

Not really though? If Geno was that difficult rights wise they wouldn't have gone out of their way to get him for just a Mii Costume and then again for a PNG.

 

[P.Kat]

https://smashultimatespirits.com/
Go to the tab and pick random spirits.

that’s our upgraded newcomer

... Really... this is what I get

Why?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Not really though? If Geno was that difficult rights wise they wouldn't have gone out of their way to get him for just a Mii Costume and then again for a PNG.

And have Mallow alongside him as well. The bosses and Boshi shouldn’t be issues if they ask SE and they let them.

 

[TwiceEXE]

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):



Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

Geez. That does seem like a huge mess. Thanks for doing all the work looking into it. You have to think such copyright issues would dissuade Nintendo on the slim chance they wanted Geno in the first place.

 

[MooMew64]

Not really though? If Geno was that difficult rights wise they wouldn't have gone out of their way to get him for just a Mii Costume and then again for a PNG.

Yeah, but it wouldn't be just Geno: Fighter Packs need music a stage, and spirits too. The question is, is Geno worth it enough to Nintendo to go through a bunch of different legal negotiations and paying multiple different parties what they'd need to to get what they need? It raises multiple questions, as it's no longer just about getting Geno, they'd have to get other things too.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, I did a lot of digging, and hoo boy SMRPG's legal rights are potentially a fustercluck. Because of how Square (and S-E) handles copyright, we have wonky situations like FFVII's character rights (Amano has the rights to his artwork and Uetmatsu to his music, for example - which is probably why Cloud has original artwork in his Fighter Spirit) and Sugiyama being extremely stingy about his DQ music (the MIDI thing). There are 4 character designers listed in SMRPGs credits. While we don't know exactly who has the rights to Geno, I researched all 4 - quickly at that - just to be safe (and I'm linking to each designer's MobyGames page - with the exception being Kotabe since he was a Nintendo stalwart):



Kotabe and Hatae are likely not any problems at all - Hatae still works at S-E (he's involved with KH3). Now, Kato and Kurashima on the other hand...

Oh dear. Kurashima was involved in the M&L cameo (he's listed there as "Mini-games by Vanpool"), but he left Vanpool in 2009 to become a freelancer. He eventually joined Onion Games and works there currently. His latest project was helping to port the PS1 RPG Moon Remix RPG Adventure (which he had worked on back in 1997) to the Switch. I'm also bringing up Kurashima because he could have the rights to Smithy (if he's classified as a Monster) and other antagonists - potentially making a Spirit Board more expensive if it turns out that Kurashima doesn't have (exclusive) rights to Geno. Since the upcoming DLC characters are "Challenger Packs" I presume they'll have DLC Spirit boards like the FP1 characters did.

Out of the character designers it seems like Kurashima might be the best guess - he has a Twitter account, an Instagram account, and (a seemingly defunct) page on S-E's website. The others don't turn much up (after just cursory research admittedly).

Kato became much less active after Tactics and likely retired after 2011. He certainly doesn't seem to have left much of a trace.

I also stumbled upon Taro Kudo, one of SMRPG's event designers (Keisuke Matsuhara and Yasushi Matsumura being the other ones): Kudo was also involved in the M&L cameo. However, he is also involved in Smash 4 / Ultimate - as Dillon's voice (something he also does at Vanpool). He's the only one of the seven I've mentioned here to have a credit in Sm4sh and Ultimate. He was also involved with Moon Remix / Vanpool together with Kurashima for 12 years, and helped develop Sticker Star / Color Splash. He's still at Vanpool - with his latest credit being Dillon's Dead-Heat Breakers.

I even went and checked Dillion's voice clips in 4 and Ultimate - Ultimate reused 4's voiceclips (a common theme with voiceclips since Nintendo owns those as part of the game). But still:

How did Square divvy up the SMRPG cast's rights? Like who has Boshi's rights? DQ's Spirits used enemies to fill out the numbers (and Luminary's party is one Spirit) - is this possible with SMRPG's characters without running into budget problems? Also, is it just Kurashima that Sakurai and Nintendo need(ed) to talk to, or do they also need to talk to Hatae / any others? How did - and does - Kudo / Kurashima view Geno?

Like, if Kudo was with Nintendo since 2011ish - and he's both involved in the M&L cameo and in Sm4sh / Ultimate, and what we've seen so far are a Mii Costume and two Spirits - then that just raises even more questions and / or weird answers.

All in all, my position on Geno is and will be "I believe it when I see it". Especially when it looks like Geno's legal position is "Fustercluck" territory.

As smug as I'd be at the Geno Cult when they realize they were wrong, this cannot be anything but an exaggeration, if it was that much of a cluster**** then SMRPG would not only not have multiple Spirits, but the Smash 4 Geno Costume announcement wouldn't have included the meme track nor would the game be able to get it's rereleases, not to mention it might have made getting Superstar Saga on Wii U impossible

 

[I.D.]

Since people are talking about spirits anyway, I want to mention that the main reason I'm wary of upgrades it that I suspect a second season was planned from the beginning and they merely chose to reveal it later; because of that most people have defaulted to assuming that they must have decided upon it some time after the game's release.

Whenever I ask for proof that this is the case I'm always hit with speculation and conjecture. Does anyone have any definitive proof, or statement, that confirms that season 2 was something they decided later? I would really appreciate it.