Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Since we got a new fighter pass to look forward to, I’d like to bring up the Story of Seasons (formerly named Harvest Moon) series again.

Owned by Marvelous!, Story of Seasons is a classic series that has stayed close to Nintendo since the SNES, spanning 30 total entries, two of which are on the Switch. A spin-off series is Story of Seasons called Rune Factory has also been made, with its upcoming 5th installment being released on the Switch this year.

while it may seem niche, it certainly has a decent legacy, especially with the casual and the female demographic. It also pioneered the farming genre of gaming, which expanded into things like FarmVille, Farming Simulator, and Stardew Valley.

So what would a Smash character look like?

Pete is the Farmer protagonist of most of the Story of Seasons games, if you don’t recognize his name you’ll probably still recognize his design.

Claire is the female protagonist in most of the Story of Seasons games, and having her be an alt costume is vital due to how much of the series fanbase is female themselves.

I also made a basic moveset for them

Spoiler: Moveset

Normals: The Farmer wields a pitchfork as a weapon and uses it for most of their normal attacks, somewhat filling the niche of a "Spearfighter" with long disjointed attacks.

Neutral Special- Sow: The Farmer takes out their bag of seeds and throws out a handful of seeds. The seeds are a spammable low damage and low knockback projectile that travel in an arc. If the seeds land upon a flat surface it will start to sprout into a crop (Potatoes, Tomatoes, Eggplant, Turnips and Pumpkins; the different crops are simply visual) Once seeds hit the ground, Crops take 7 seconds to fully grow and have 10 health each. A max of 5 crops can be out at a time.

Up Special- Chicken Glide: The Farmer lifts a chicken over their head that frantically flaps its wings. After lifting the Farmer a vertical distance, the chicken continues to slow the fall of the Farmer for 3 seconds then the farmer lets go. The farmer can let go of the chicken early, but if the player holds for the entire duration, the chicken will drop an egg that the player can eat to recover 3% health.

Side Special- Reap: The Farmer wildly swings their sickle 3 times in a multi-hit attack with high ending lag. The player may move and chance directions while using this attack. If the Farmer uses Reap and hits a crop the player gains a speed boost and it reduces the ending lag. If the Farmer hits a fully-grown crop, they will also recover 4% HP.

Down Special- Cow Bell: The Farmer rings a bell and a cow is summoned behind them. The Cow is a physical object that can be stood on, block attacks, and launches any enemies that get trampled by it. (Think like a slow Gogoat) The Cow moves at a slow but steady pace, it is affected by gravity, and will stop once it hits a wall or a ledge. The Cow cannot be hurt in anyway and only one can be out at a time.

Final Smash- The Harvest Goddess: Out of a pool of water, the Harvest goddess appears before the Farmer, surrounded by a circle of dancing harvest sprites. The goddess grants the wish of strength and restores 30% HP to the Farmer. Any foes that are caught around the circle of dancing harvest sprites will take 25% damage and a burst of knockback.

Intro animation- Dismounts from a horse

Up Taunt- Handkerchief

Side Taunt- The Farmers dog appears and he gives him a pet

Down Taunt- The Farmer eats some "Jelly Doughnuts"

Winning Animation 1: The Farmer eagerly Catches a Blue Feather.
Winning Animation 2: The Farmer's dog pounces on and licks the farmer.
Winning Animation 3: The Farmer Rings their bell and is suddenly surrounded by a horse, a cow and a chicken.

For the stage you could simply have a modest farm, the general location in every Story of Seasons game. I think an interesting gimmick for the stage is for it to change between seasons, with the layout changing too.

As for the music, generally the music of the series is a bit too laid back for high paced action. I would imagine it would need a few remixes to work, perhaps a remix of the season themes that change with the season on the stage as well. If need be, they could also use a few Rune Factory songs.

I have also made a spirits list for story of seasons

Spoiler

As for Spirits i'd like to see these...

Cow
( Slow moving and hard to launch; Milk food item appears in waves)

Chickens
( 2 Enemy stats with a Cucco and Cucco item appears in large quantity)

Dog
( that fights with an enemy Farmer)

Horse
(4 that can't stop moving and damage enemies when running into them)

Harvest Spirits
(7 that start with Lip's Stick or Fairy Bottle)

Harvest Goddess
( the enemy heals damage at random intervals)

Bachelors
(protect from )

Bachelorettes
( 5that has an allied Wedding )

Brides
(Enhanced Bachelorettes)

 

[I.D.]

Look people, not every Nintendo series is Fire Emblem. Not every Nintendo series gets a character spot automatically reserved for Smash for its most recent new protagonist. All I'm saying is Rex can make it in the next game even if he isn't DA NEW HOTNESS simply because Sakurai liked his game and it happens to be the most successful of the 3 Xenoblades.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look people, not every Nintendo series is Fire Emblem. Not every Nintendo series gets a character spot automatically reserved for Smash. All I'm saying is Rex can make it in the next game even if he isn't DA NEW HOTNESS simply because Sakurai liked his game and it happens to be the most successful of the 3 Xenoblades.

You realize rotating casts is what screwed over Elma so what makes Rex special in that regard?

 

[I.D.]

You realize rotating casts is what screwed over Elma so what makes Rex special in that regard?

What screwed Elma is that Sakurai has literally never acknowledged her, nor her game.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

People really seem hung up on the 'too recent' argument without realizing the context of game development and Sakurai's regrets with Roy. If XB2 was a 2019 game Rex wouldn't have had the 'too recent' comment

To me, all "too recent" means is that the character did not exist while character selection was in progress. To my knowledge, the only characters that were officially stated to have this trait and were added anyway were Roy, who was a last minute clone character like Ganondorf made upon request, as well as Incineroar, who had its seat reserved because Pokémon.

Cross isn't competition for Elma, Cross doesn't even have a consistent design, personality or weapon

They'd probably just use the preset looks with the starting BLADEwear armour set (and/or pick different ones for the alts). They could even give a different voice to each alt. As for the classes, they'd either use the Drifter class, the Samurai Gunner class, or all of them (since he's the only one who can change classes).

Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate here. Since Xenoblade Chronicles X puts so much emphasis on working together (at least in the combat system), I don't think a single character could represent it properly. I think it should be more of an ensemble fighter like Duck Hunt. Elma by herself would be "eh", and Cross by himself would be worse.

You realize rotating casts is what screwed over Elma so what makes Rex special in that regard?

Just timing. If Xenoblade Chronicles 3 isn't a thing before character selection ends or Xenoblade Chronicles X doesn't make any sort of comeback than Rex is a front runner for the series. Though depending on how well Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition does we could also be looking at Riki or Seven as well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What screwed Elma is that Sakurai has literally never acknowledged her, nor her game.

She has multiple Spirits and the whole 'composer owns the music' scenario. In the next 5 years or so, Rex will be left behind like Elma was, forgotten, in favour of whoever the new protag may be, though as Elma's game actually does lead up for a potential sequel, she may have an edge but I doubt it. Rotating casts are a blessing and a curse

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I dunno, doesn't seem to me Nintendo or Square are that interested, and given Nintendo are the ones calling the shots with DLC in the end, I'd be surprised personally if Geno even crossed their minds..

I mean... Nintendo seemed interested enough in Super Mario RPG to re-release it three times by now (both Virtual Consoles for Wii and Wii U, and being included on the SNES Classic), and while I'm admittedly no expert on this subject, I would assume re-releasing Super Mario RPG would require Square Enix's blessing as well, which would mean they also approved those re-releases. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Super Mario RPG finds its way to the Nintendo Switch Online service for a fourth re-release.

With that in mind, I don't think Nintendo and Square Enix are as disinterested in Super Mario RPG, and by extension Geno, as they're made out to be.

 

[I.D.]

She has multiple Spirits and the whole 'composer owns the music' scenario. In the next 5 years or so, Rex will be left behind like Elma was, forgotten, in favour of whoever the new protag may be, though as Elma's game actually does lead up for a potential sequel, she may have an edge but I doubt it. Rotating casts are a blessing and a curse

Look, I know you despise Xenoblade 2 and all but are you really going to pretend Sakurai hasn't shown slightly different treatment towards XB2 compared to XBX? Her spirits aren't even properly labelled in-game.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

So all of the talk about Sora has got me thinking a bit about a topic.



When Ultimate wraps up all of its DLC, which group of supporters do you think will get hit the hardest if the character they've been clamoring for never makes it to Smash? It's probably obvious to say Sora with all that's happening right now, but I'm thinking those that want Crash will be devastated if Nintendo skips out on adding him to the roster.

Any following of a character that has not even appeared on Smash's radar will be hit hard.

You know it to be true.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

To me, all "too recent" means is that the character did not exist while character selection was in progress. To my knowledge, the only characters that were officially stated to have this trait and were added anyway were Roy, who was a last minute clone character like Ganondorf made upon request, as well as Incineroar, who had its seat reserved because Pokémon.


They'd probably just use the preset looks with the starting BLADEwear armour set (and/or pick different ones for the alts). They could even give a different voice to each alt. As for the classes, they'd either use the Drifter class, the Samurai Gunner class, or all of them (since he's the only one who can change classes).

Of course, I'm playing devil's advocate here. Since Xenoblade Chronicles X puts so much emphasis on working together (at least in the combat system), I don't think a single character could represent it properly. I think it should be more of an ensemble fighter like Duck Hunt. Elma by herself would be "eh", and Cross by himself would be worse.


Just timing. If Xenoblade Chronicles 3 isn't a thing before character selection ends or Xenoblade Chronicles X doesn't make any sort of comeback than Rex is a front runner for the series. Though depending on how well Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition does we could also be looking at Riki or Seven as well.

And why did timing matter? Because the cast rotated, meaning XB2 wasn't far enough in development to solidify what they were doing with Rex, and as Sakurai doesn't want another Roy scenario, a character being wildly inaccurate in personality, why waste so many potential manhours for someone who may not have even ended up being the protagonist when the game came out?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I actually didn't like that moveset. I don't think "keep pressuring him or take damage" is a good design. Super Smash Flash 2's version of the character is pretty neat through. He's basically a weirder Luigi with some references to the spin-off titles. Also his Up Aerial spikes for no reason and I love it.

I mean the concept looks like a lot of fun if done right but I suppose the Smash Flash team did pretty good with Waluigi as well. Weirder Luigi does suit him pretty well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look, I know you despise Xenoblade 2 and all but are you really going to pretend Sakurai hasn't shown slightly different treatment towards XB2 compared to XBX? Her spirits aren't even properly labelled in-game.

Why would my hatred of XB2 make me compare it to a game I managed to find more enjoyment out of? And the **** do you mean they aren't properly labelled?

 

[Cosmic77]

The odds of Rex still getting in Smash 6 if XC3 comes out in time for Sakurai to consider it for the base roster is about as high as him adding Gardevoir and Zoroark.

Rotating casts are one example where relevancy is usually prioritized over popularity. There was no guarantee Roy, Greninja, Corrin, Incineroar, or Byleth would be popular when Sakurai decided to add them, as their games hadn't even come out yet when they were chosen. For that reason, I don't really have high expectations for Elma in this pass, and I won't expect much from Rex after fighter #11 is revealed.

 

[DMTN]

Look people, not every Nintendo series is Fire Emblem. Not every Nintendo series gets a character spot automatically reserved for Smash for its most recent new protagonist. All I'm saying is Rex can make it in the next game even if he isn't DA NEW HOTNESS simply because Sakurai liked his game and it happens to be the most successful of the 3 Xenoblades.

You are not wrong. Rex can still happen in a couple of years. However, the reason this debate even started, is because someone asked which character would get hit the hardest if they don't make Ultimate. Rex has recency in his favor, but it won't stay like that forever. So yes, Rex can still happen in the future, but it's much less likely.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I had this idea that because of the statement made that Nintendo was going to bring 3DS franchises to the Switch thanks to the success of the Switch Lite that there could be a promotional character in relation to that, but seeing as that statement came up the day before the month they had shot the Byleth presentation where they said the characters were finalised... That just may not hold water. There was the Tweet of Tsunku being open for a new Rhythm Heaven game in March last year so there's maybe at least some window of time for if that idea was seriously considered by Nintendo to be a thing before the characters were finalised. It's a franchise of kinda sparse, occasional instalments anyway, with the one released before Ultimate's project plan or so (so it's at least more active a franchise than something like Golden Sun), but I don't know if that excuses it for not having a REALLY recent Switch game to promote

With Nintendo having at least one character of their own in every Smash DLC cycle now, Plant or no Plant, are their options for another promotion of a new Switch character, new "world" of sorts like Byleth kinda lacking at least in games we know of currently? Sword and Shield does have a Spirit Event to its name already (Pokemon also already taking one of Ultimate's handful of base game unique newcomer slots already too), and the newer, untested franchises like Astral Chain and Ring Fit Adventurer are newer and untested.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

She has multiple Spirits and the whole 'composer owns the music' scenario. In the next 5 years or so, Rex will be left behind like Elma was, forgotten, in favour of whoever the new protag may be, though as Elma's game actually does lead up for a potential sequel, she may have an edge but I doubt it. Rotating casts are a blessing and a curse

I think the only way Elma's going to disappear in the foreseeable future is if Xenoblade Chronicles X dies, which could happen. Personally, I'm hoping for a Xenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition. Depending on how it's handled, it could be pretty big since people will know what to expect, and the game can improve on the features that weren't so great.

Look, I know you despise Xenoblade 2 and all but are you really going to pretend Sakurai hasn't shown slightly different treatment towards XB2 compared to XBX? Her spirits aren't even properly labelled in-game.

She's not denying this. She's just saying it doesn't matter. I mean, just look at the Legend of Zelda's playable cast.

And why did timing matter? Because the cast rotated, meaning XB2 wasn't far enough in development to solidify what they were doing with Rex, and as Sakurai doesn't want another Roy scenario, a character being wildly inaccurate in personality, why waste so many potential manhours for someone who may not have even ended up being the protagonist when the game came out?

I'm saying that his timing could make him a candidate for the next game like with how Rosalina & Luma (and various other previous gen characters) got into Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U.
EDIT: And this is assuming that something bigger doesn't come from the Xeno series between Smash games.

I also don't think Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had anything to do with Elma's absence as a playable character. It was probably moreso the general dissatisfaction with the game when it came out due to it not explaining itself very well, and the expectation that it'd be Xenoblade Chronicles, but open world.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the only way Elma's going to disappear in the foreseeable future is if Xenoblade Chronicles X dies, which could happen. Personally, I'm hoping for a Xenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition. Depending on how it's handled, it could be pretty big since people will know what to expect, and the game can improve on the features that weren't so great.


She's not denying this. She's just saying it doesn't matter. I mean, just look at the Legend of Zelda's playable cast.


I'm saying that his timing could make him a candidate for the next game like with how Rosalina & Luma (and various other previous gen characters) got into Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3Ds/Wii U.
EDIT: And this is assuming that something bigger doesn't come from the Xeno series between Smash games.

I also don't think Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had anything to do with Elma's absence as a playable character. It was probably moreso the general dissatisfaction with the game when it came out due to it not explaining itself very well, and the expectation that it'd be Xenoblade Chronicles, but open world.

Rosalina got immense popularity and kept appearing in everything alongside a major detail you're leaving out. Mario's cast doesn't rotate, it grows, meaning Rosalina would never be at risk of being replaced like how Luigi and Peach are always around

 

[MooMew64]

I mean... Nintendo seemed interested enough in Super Mario RPG to re-release it three times by now (both Virtual Consoles for Wii and Wii U, and being included on the SNES Classic), and while I'm admittedly no expert on this subject, I would assume re-releasing Super Mario RPG would require Square Enix's blessing as well, which would mean they also approved those re-releases. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised at all if Super Mario RPG finds its way to the Nintendo Switch Online service for a fourth re-release.

With that in mind, I don't think Nintendo and Square Enix are as disinterested in Super Mario RPG, and by extension Geno, as they're made out to be.

They're not re-releasing it because of Geno, though. It's because it's a Mario game.

Whenever these re-releases happen, though? Nintendo doesn't make a big deal out of it, nor do they specifically mention Geno in any way. Like, when they re-release SMRPG, they don't say "Come relive the grand adventure that features Geno!" it's just treated like any old Mario re-release for the VC, with little to no fanfare or pause. Again, the fact that they didn't get Geno even for something as minor as the SSS remake is pretty telling to me that Nintendo might not see value in it. Plus, I just don't see SE pushing for it when they have nothing to gain from featuring Geno above more up and coming characters. Why put in Geno when they could put in another big character that benefits them like 2B, Lara Croft, or heck, trying to make another FF character happen? When you're making a DLC character with the hopes to get people to buy specifically the new character and reach a new audience, would SE and Nintendo really settle on Geno above more profitable and recognizable faces that are still receiving attention and game releases?

Plus, there is the issue of Geno's spirit. If Sakurai bothered to negotiate rights for the spirit, why didn't he go the whole way to make him playable if he was already talking to the company about him anyway? With Sakurai's view on Spirits being a way to incorporate characters without making them full on actual fighters, why would he go through all the trouble of talking with SE and Nintendo to get in a Geno spirit if he wanted him playable? That's twice now Sakurai's gotten the rights for the character (the first being the Mii costume in Smash 4), but not going the full mile for a playable fighter.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

just want to let people know.

 

[Dinoman96]

Plus, there is the issue of Geno's spirit. If Sakurai bothered to negotiate rights for the spirit, why didn't he go the whole way to make him playable if he was already talking to the company about him anyway? With Sakurai's view on Spirits being a way to incorporate characters without making them full on actual fighters, why would he go through all the trouble of talking with SE and Nintendo to get in a Geno spirit if he wanted him playable? That's twice now Sakurai's gotten the rights for the character (the first being the Mii costume in Smash 4), but not going the full mile for a playable fighter.

Well, Ultimate's base lineup was extremely tight. They could only add five all new characters and a semi-clone.

It's possible that the Geno spirit was all that he could do at the time, but with a new season pass coming up years off of the initial project plan, they may possibly revisit him.

 

[I.D.]

The odds of Rex still getting in Smash 6 if XC3 comes out in time for Sakurai to consider it for the base roster is about as high as him adding Gardevoir and Zoroark.

Needless to say, Pokemon is in the same group as Fire Emblem. The "rotating cast" argument only applies to series that are guaranteed to get spots. If your series isn't guaranteed to get a spot there are other things to consider when it comes to selecting a character beyond "what is the latest installment we can shill, since we already shilled the last one anyway".

Rex has recency in his favor, but it won't stay like that forever. So yes, Rex can still happen in the future, but it's much less likely.

What I'm trying to say is that Rex has more than recency going for him and comparisons to Elma are laughable. Sakurai has never even mentioned XBX, nor Elma, while dedicating a column to praising XB2 and making an apology costume for Rex and implying he would have made it had circumstances been different. XB2 outsold the previous 2 games combined and put the series on the same ballpark of sales as other Nintendo B series like Donkey Kong. XB2 gets songs, mii costumes and more spirits (spirits which are properly implemented in the WoL, unlike XBX) than XBX. Nintendo apparently doesn't want to fund a port of XBX for the Switch and the XBX merch pales in comparison to XB2.

I just don't see this "Oh Elma got passed up therefore Rex will too" since I've never seen any indication that Elma was even considered for Smash at any point while everything points to the contrary with Rex AND his game got more attention from both Sakurai, Nintendo and general public.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Rosalina got immense popularity and kept appearing in everything alongside a major detail you're leaving out. Mario's cast doesn't rotate, it grows, meaning Rosalina would never be at risk of being replaced like how Luigi and Peach are always around

Again, I'm assuming that Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is not a thing, and the Xenoblade Chronicles X series does nothing before the next Super Smash Bros. game's roster is being decided. Should these things happen, we're looking at Elma, Cross, or a currently non-existant character instead. I just don't think that's a sure thing.

Also, Super Mario characters are thrown away all the freaking time, and those that aren't are sent to spin-off purgatory with Daisy, and Waluigi. I can almost guarantee you that we won't see Rosalina in a platformer again until she's retro. Then she'll be shoehorned into everything until people are sick of her.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

just want to let people know.

Oh boy, a huge vocal Sora fanboy who said that being asked to stop spamming character requests only fuels him said Sora is actually likely? This sure changed my mind when compared to Imran, a known insider and World of Final Fantasy's handling of Sora!

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Oh boy, a huge vocal Sora fanboy who said that being asked to stop spamming character requests only fuels him said Sora is actually likely? This sure changed my mind when compared to Imran, a known insider and World of Final Fantasy's handling of Sora!

Believe what you want to believe I guess.

 

[MooMew64]

Well, Ultimate's base lineup was extremely tight. They could only add five all new characters and a semi-clone.

It's possible that the Geno spirit was all that he could do at the time, but with a new season pass coming up years off of the initial project plan, they may possibly revisit him.

Definitely possible, but Spirits still serve as a function to simulate playable characters. They're not quite like trophies were, so it's a matter of seeing if Spirit promotions are on the table or not.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Believe what you want to believe I guess.

Literally the same could be applied to you and HMK

Again, I'm assuming that Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is not a thing, and the Xenoblade Chronicles X series does nothing before the next Super Smash Bros. game's roster is being decided. Should these things happen, we're looking at Elma, Cross, or a currently non-existant character instead. I just don't think that's a sure thing.

Also, Super Mario characters are thrown away all the freaking time, and those that aren't are sent to spin-off purgatory with Daisy, and Waluigi. I can almost guarantee you that we won't see Rosalina in a platformer again until she's retro. Then she'll be shoehorned into everything until people are sick of her.

We saw that Rosalina gets prioritized more often than others. She's always a mainstay as people care more about her than most Mario characters

 

[Faso115]

Definitely Lloyd, KOSMOS, Heihachi, and any of the other Bandai-Namco character supporters. That would mean Bandai-Namco's only content in Smash comes from Pac-Man and their other arcade games.

Too easy. Geno.

Take a simple look at the Geno thread in this very site, some folks believe that thread has become borderline cult-like

EDIT: I quoted the wrong thing but whatever

 

[Arcanir]

Look people, not every Nintendo series is Fire Emblem. Not every Nintendo series gets a character spot automatically reserved for Smash for its most recent new protagonist. All I'm saying is Rex can make it in the next game even if he isn't DA NEW HOTNESS simply because Sakurai liked his game and it happens to be the most successful of the 3 Xenoblades.

Sakurai likes many games, hell one of the purposes of his Famitsu column is to talk about games he's recently played and has enjoyed such as Minecraft, Stardew Valley, and recently Death Stranding. Him liking the game doesn't mean that Rex would get a free pass into Smash 6 as he has passed over games he's liked in the past as well as other popular and well liked characters from franchises with similar rotating cast, and if a new game in the franchise comes out and is as popular and has better timing then it does put Rex in a difficult spot. It can happen, but it's best not to ignore previous precedence when speculating what can happen in the future.

 

[Cosmic77]

With Nintendo having at least one character of their own in every Smash DLC cycle now, Plant or no Plant, are their options for another promotion of a new Switch character, new "world" of sorts like Byleth kinda lacking at least in games we know of currently? Sword and Shield does have a Spirit Event to its name already (Pokemon also already taking one of Ultimate's handful of base game unique newcomer slots already too), and the newer, untested franchises like Astral Chain and Ring Fit Adventurer are newer and untested.

On the point of Ultimate already having a Pokemon newcomer, I don't think that really matters. Smash 4 already had Robin, but Corrin still got in.

Regardless, I think SwSh and BotW2 have the best shot at getting a newcomer. Both are from popular franchises that have already proven themselves to Nintendo, so they should know both games would be very profitable. I think Nintendo would like to see where Astral Chain and Ring Fit stands in a few years.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Plus, I just don't see SE pushing for it when they have nothing to gain from featuring Geno above more up and coming characters. Why put in Geno when they could put in another big character that benefits them like 2B, Lara Croft, or heck, trying to make another FF character happen? When you're making a DLC character with the hopes to get people to buy specifically the new character and reach a new audience, would SE and Nintendo really settle on Geno above more profitable and recognizable faces that are still receiving attention and game releases?

Two words: Banjo-Kazooie.

Yes, Banjo-Kazooie were in slightly better circumstances than Geno. Yes, Banjo-Kazooie had the advantage of Phil Spencer himself advocating for their inclusion... but at the end of the day, when the two sat down and talked about including a Microsoft-owned character in Smash, both Nintendo and Microsoft had every reason to go for someone like Master Chief or Steve, two massively popular and relevant characters from massively popular and relevant series who would've made waves and benefited Microsoft greatly... yet, the one who ended up actually being included was instead Banjo-Kazooie, a duo of characters from an old series that hasn't had a new game since 2008 and weren't very beneficial to Microsoft other than Minecraft skins and the occasional re-release of the original games.

No matter how much people try to downplay it, Banjo-Kazooie have shown that fan demand can be a powerful thing, and that it's still possible for characters like them such as Geno to get into Smash despite having little else in their favor.

Plus, there is the issue of Geno's spirit. If Sakurai bothered to negotiate rights for the spirit, why didn't he go the whole way to make him playable if he was already talking to the company about him anyway? With Sakurai's view on Spirits being a way to incorporate characters without making them full on actual fighters, why would he go through all the trouble of talking with SE and Nintendo to get in a Geno spirit if he wanted him playable? That's twice now Sakurai's gotten the rights for the character (the first being the Mii costume in Smash 4), but not going the full mile for a playable fighter.

Dinoman96 already made the point I was gonna make here, so I'll just quote him...

Well, Ultimate's base lineup was extremely tight. They could only add five all new characters and a semi-clone.

It's possible that the Geno spirit was all that he could do at the time, but with a new season pass coming up years off of the initial project plan, they may possibly revisit him.

... to add to this, I believe the first Fighters Pass was planned along with the base roster (I could be wrong, feel free to correct me on this), which would mean the developers weren't able to squeeze Geno into the first Pass. The second Pass, though? That's an opportunity for them to go back and include characters that may have missed the first time around.

 

[Mikegamer0608]

Literally the same could be applied to you and HMK

Eh...no sweat off my back I got Banjo who was my #1, Sora and my other wishlist characters would be my iceing on my delicious cake.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Two words: Banjo-Kazooie.

Yes, Banjo-Kazooie were in slightly better circumstances than Geno. Yes, Banjo-Kazooie had the advantage of Phil Spencer himself advocating for their inclusion... but at the end of the day, when the two sat down and talked about including a Microsoft-owned character in Smash, both Nintendo and Microsoft had every reason to go for someone like Master Chief or Steve, two massively popular and relevant characters from massively popular and relevant series who would've made waves and benefited Microsoft greatly... yet, the one who ended up actually being included was instead Banjo-Kazooie, a duo of characters from an old series that hasn't had a new game since 2008 and weren't very beneficial to Microsoft other than Minecraft skins and the occasional re-release of the original games.

No matter how much people try to downplay it, Banjo-Kazooie have shown that fan demand can be a powerful thing, and that it's still possible for characters like them such as Geno to get into Smash despite having little else in their favor.


Dinoman96 already made the point I was gonna make here, so I'll just quote him...

... to add to this, I believe the first Fighters Pass was planned along with the base roster (I could be wrong, feel free to correct me on this), which would mean the developers weren't able to squeeze Geno into the first Pass. The second Pass, though? That's an opportunity for them to go back and include characters that may have missed the first time around.

We know for a fact the first fighter pass was already being discussed at the very least during the base game's development, so much so that Hero was intentionally left out of the base game to be saved as DLC. That being said, no way in hell did they choose to save something they couldn't do for base game until after the DLC they already planned at that point

 

[Guynamednelson]

Definitely possible, but Spirits still serve as a function to simulate playable characters. They're not quite like trophies were, so it's a matter of seeing if Spirit promotions are on the table or not.

They still brought back HRC after making Sandbag's spirit battle simulate it.

 

[MooMew64]

Two words: Banjo-Kazooie.

Yes, Banjo-Kazooie were in slightly better circumstances than Geno. Yes, Banjo-Kazooie had the advantage of Phil Spencer himself advocating for their inclusion... but at the end of the day, when the two sat down and talked about including a Microsoft-owned character in Smash, both Nintendo and Microsoft had every reason to go for someone like Master Chief or Steve, two massively popular and relevant characters from massively popular and relevant series who would've made waves and benefited Microsoft greatly... yet, the one who ended up actually being included was instead Banjo-Kazooie, a duo of characters from an old series that hasn't had a new game since 2008 and weren't very beneficial to Microsoft other than Minecraft skins and the occasional re-release of the original games.

No matter how much people try to downplay it, Banjo-Kazooie have shown that fan demand can be a powerful thing, and that it's still possible for characters like them such as Geno to get into Smash despite having little else in their favor.


Dinoman96 already made the point I was gonna make here, so I'll just quote him...

... to add to this, I believe the first Fighters Pass was planned along with the base roster (I could be wrong, feel free to correct me on this), which would mean the developers weren't able to squeeze Geno into the first Pass. The second Pass, though? That's an opportunity for them to go back and include characters that may have missed the first time around.

Banjo & Kazooie were definitely in a completely different circumstance given Rare Replay keeping them relevant, and them being the driving force behind Microsoft's marketing of Rare Replay. Not to mention merchandising of the Banjo Kazooie franchise still going on showing Microsoft is still using and acknowledging the character in some way.

Geno, though? Again, his own parent company doesn't even acknowledge he exists, and he hasn't had a meaningful appearance in a long time. Plus, I'm not really sure if I'd agree the demand for Geno was as loud as Banjo. I kind of think Geno is a bit overplayed in just how recognizable he really is to those outside the core Smash fandom bubble and hardcore SMRPG fans, which doesn't really say much IMO when you look at the bigger picture.

They still brought back HRC after making Sandbag's spirit battle simulate it.

That's an entire game mode, though, not a playable fighter. I'd say they're quite a bit different.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Why would my hatred of XB2

When you use the word hatred and then the object of that hatred is a video game. Like I know the Smash community can get pretty damn passionate, but this is also some next level stuff.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Plus, I'm not really sure if I'd agree the demand for Geno was as loud as Banjo.

The thing that reignited Banjo support was Phil Spencer approving of Smash Ballot votes. For Geno, it was post-ballot. That's what I think the issue is.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

I make those. I don't have plans to make MMZ, but fwiw, here's one for regular Zero.

View attachment 261444

Thanks. I like both versions of Zero anyway.

 

[TheCJBrine]

We know for a fact the first fighter pass was already being discussed at the very least during the base game's development, so much so that Hero was intentionally left out of the base game to be saved as DLC. That being said, no way in hell did they choose to save something they couldn't do for base game until after the DLC they already planned at that point

They could have them in mind when new plans come (in this case, Vol. 2), like Mewtwo and Lucas.

Banjo & Kazooie were definitely in a completely different circumstance given Rare Replay keeping them relevant, and them being the driving force behind Microsoft's marketing of Rare Replay. Not to mention merchandising of the Banjo Kazooie franchise still going on showing Microsoft is still using and acknowledging the character in some way.

Geno, though? Again, his own parent company doesn't even acknowledge he exists, and he hasn't had a meaningful appearance in a long time. Plus, I'm not really sure if I'd agree the demand for Geno was as loud as Banjo. I kind of think Geno is a bit overplayed in just how recognizable he really is to those outside the core Smash fandom bubble and hardcore SMRPG fans, which doesn't really say much IMO when you look at the bigger picture.



That's an entire game mode, though, not a playable fighter. I'd say they're quite a bit different.

They still acknowledge SMRPG, had the Mii costume last game, and NoA made that tweet asking if people were Team Mallow or Team Geno in 2018. Sakurai mentioned how Geno gets lots of requests. Yoko Shimomura’s Memoria album has Goodbye Geno and BtFM.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

When you use the word hatred and then the object of that hatred is a video game. Like I know the Smash community can get pretty damn passionate, but this is also some next level stuff.

My distaste for the game is welldocumented and people adore pointing that out as if it eliminates my ability to be unbiased or use it to deflect any potential criticisms I may have of the game

 

[TwiceEXE]

The whole Geno debate is pretty played out, imo. Neither side is going to convince the other. Either he makes it or he doesn't.

I just don't get why people debate so much about a Mii costume returning