Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Teeb147]

Still not willing to buy any leaks since I'd much rather be surprised by what reveals we get instead of ones that will be expected if said leaks turn out to be accurate.

I wanted to do that too, but now with everything i dont think i'll totally be able to do that. Will try tho
I want to enjoy all the news, not just watch for smash stuff, heh.

 

[Fenriraga]

My friend had a fun theory that the rest of the pass would ALL be revealed at E3 at different conferences. It's a total pie in the sky but imagine something like Banjo at Microsoft, Ezio at Ubisoft, Doomguy at Bethesda, and Erdrick at Squeenix. Or instead of Ezio, maybe Phoenix Wright at Nintendo.

I mean, it's not happening, it's just fun theorizing, but that'd be a blast.

All of the companies coming together to collaborate on something like that would be magical and would forever immortalize this particular E3.

Definitely won't happen, but wow, what a ride that would be.

 

[theromfather]

I think that Banjo will be the next DLC character and that the Minecraft content vergeben referred to in the past will be Mii Costumes not a boss, stage, or Steve as a playable character.

 

[Gameboi834]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sooo this is interesting...might be a good idea already to get off the site for a while, maybe even disconnect entirely.

 

[Nquoid]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sooo this is interesting...might be a good idea already to get off the site for a while, maybe even disconnect entirely.

He says it's about the leak of another game. But with that leak confirmed and the Pokemon leaks from the other day seemingly being confirmed, it does look like we are going to see legit stuff drop over the next day or two, if we haven't already.

 

[Izanagi97]

He says it's about the leak of another game. But with that leak confirmed and the Pokemon leaks from the other day seemingly being confirmed, it does look like we are going to see legit stuff drop over the next day or two, if we haven't already.

So fun times are ahead

 

[StormC]

I don’t think we will get any western characters besides Banjo in the Fighters Pass. This is happening because of massive fan demand, Banjo’s history with Nintendo, and a special Nintendo/Microsoft collaboration. Capcom and Namco are the companies I would put money on to have the last two characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Sooo this is interesting...might be a good idea already to get off the site for a while, maybe even disconnect entirely.

Eh, I have to look up the direct after it airs so going spoiler free is impossible for me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Eh, I have to look up the direct after it airs so going spoiler free is impossible for me.

Not if you do the same thing I do: before the day of airing, look up the Nintendo website page with the date when the Direct will air, then put it in your list of favorites, problem solved. This method has worked like a charm so far with the Directs I've missed, and then watched spoiler-free.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Not if you do the same thing I do: before the day of airing, look up the Nintendo website page with the date when the Direct will air, then put it in your list of favorites, problem solved. This method has worked like a charm so far with the Directs I've missed, and then watched spoiler-free.

...That's actually really smart. I wish I'd thought of that before.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don’t think we will get any western characters besides Banjo in the Fighters Pass. This is happening because of massive fan demand, Banjo’s history with Nintendo, and a special Nintendo/Microsoft collaboration. Capcom and Namco are the companies I would put money on to have the last two characters.

That's a very bold claim. I wouldn't be surprised if we did get multiple Western reps, especially if they're from either Bethesda or Ubisoft, who have been heavily associated with Nintendo lately.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Probably Vincent Valentine or Phantom R.

 

[Opossum]

That's a very bold claim. I wouldn't be surprised if we did get multiple Western reps, especially if they're from either Bethesda or Ubisoft, who have been heavily associated with Nintendo lately.

Honestly I'm not banking on either of those two companies getting a character. The only one I could really see is, like, Ezio, but he's a longshot to say the least.

 

[StormC]

That's a very bold claim. I wouldn't be surprised if we did get multiple Western reps, especially if they're from either Bethesda or Ubisoft, who have been heavily associated with Nintendo lately.

I don’t think it’s that bold. Logistics indicate that coordinating with western companies is difficult because Sakurai tends to meet the owners of the characters to figure out how best to portray the character in Smash. Comparatively, most Japanese developers work relatively close to each other and speak the same language.

In the 70+ character history of Smash, there’s only been three western characters and all were owned by Nintendo. Sakurai has said he wants to use Smash to boost the profile of Japanese games, expressing disappointment that they have fallen behind the sales of western games globally.

Also, I doubt they would put in western characters unfamiliar or unpopular with Japanese fans, especially as DLC. Banjo is popular among Japanese Smash fans, while characters like say, Rayman and Doom Slayer, might as well be nonexistent to them. Nintendo historically prioritizes Japan as a demographic, and even the “western favorites” we’ve gotten like Ridley and Little Mac were still Japanese created characters.

 

[osby]

I don’t think it’s that bold. Logistics indicate that coordinating with western companies is difficult because Sakurai tends to meet the owners of the characters to figure out how best to portray the character in Smash. Comparatively, most Japanese developers work relatively close to each other and speak the same language.

In the 70+ character history of Smash, there’s only been three western characters and all were owned by Nintendo. Sakurai has said he wants to use Smash to boost the profile of Japanese games, expressing disappointment that they have fallen behind the sales of western games globally.

Also, I doubt they would put in western characters unfamiliar or unpopular with Japanese fans, especially as DLC. Banjo is popular among Japanese Smash fans, while characters like say, Rayman and Doom Slayer, might as well be nonexistent to them. Nintendo historically prioritizes Japan as a demographic, and even the “western favorites” we’ve gotten like Ridley and Little Mac were still Japanese created characters.

Okay, but that doesn't explain why did you singled Banjo out. Even if Nintendo is in good terms with Microsoft, it's not their only western partner and there are numerous other western-owned franchises that are more popular than Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[RileyXY1]

Okay, but that doesn't explain why did you singled Banjo out. Even if Nintendo is in good terms with Microsoft, it's not their only western partner and there are numerous other western-owned franchises that are more popular than Banjo-Kazooie.

You're right. I named two of them off and there's still many more out there. Banjo is definitely not the only Western character with a shot at getting him. I wouldn't be surprised if we get two or even three of them in the Fighter Pass.

 

[Nquoid]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda or Ubisoft got a rep. But if I was making a bet I'd say Koei Tecmo, Capcom and Namco Bandai are more likely than those two. I'll be shocked if the final 2 characters (assuming the leaks are correct) aren't some combination of those 5 companies. But if I put money down it'd be on the Japanese companies.

 

[StormC]

Okay, but that doesn't explain why did you singled Banjo out. Even if Nintendo is in good terms with Microsoft, it's not their only western partner and there are numerous other western-owned franchises that are more popular than Banjo-Kazooie.

Banjo had massive fan demand, the blessing of Phil Spencer and history as an ex-Nintendo character. Sakurai even considered him an “obvious choice” back in the Melee days. It’s also looking like Banjo is about to get a revival of sorts and that might factor into things. There isn’t really any character, western or Japanese, in Banjo’s position.

 

[Curious Villager]

At best, I would only really expect one Western third party in this fighters pass, maybe two if we're lucky. But overall, I think they will be mostly prioritizing Japanese third party companies for the most part. I think Sakurai himself even stated at one point that he mainly wanted to focus on promoting Japanese gaming in Smash.

If I where to think of a second Western third party that would have a good shot at making it in (besides a Microsoft character). It would probably be Crash Bandicoot since he also seems to be a fairly popular request in Japan from what I've seen.

 

[Captain Shades]

Banjo had massive fan demand, the blessing of Phil Spencer and history as an ex-Nintendo character. Sakurai even considered him an “obvious choice” back in the Melee days. It’s also looking like Banjo is about to get a revival of sorts and that might factor into things. There isn’t really any character, western or Japanese, in Banjo’s position.

You just going to sit there and do Conker like that? Joking of course, but I’ve sort of come around to the idea of Banjo and can see him getting in if leaks are to be believed. I guess I was just a little disappointed like I have been with most newcomers as I really only wanted Bandana Dee, but since that ship has sunk I guess I’ll take anyone.

Also, while this may be a bold claim, I’d say at this point that Rayman and the Rabbids have basically become the new Banjo in many respects when it comes to fan demand for Smash and overall history with Nintendo. They two have also had some pretty major revivals that I hope continue with Rabbids hanging out with Mario and the major rumors of a Rayman 4 in the works. I think Ubisoft has sort of earned a “sudo-New Rare” logo if Retro hadn’t already, so I do think another western character could come out of them.

I think many westerns have a shot, especially since Nintendo is picking DLC and their biggest friends are Bethesda, Ubisoft and soon to be Microsoft, who all jumped on day one. I’m sure Nintendo would want to help out their new partners just as much as they’ve helped out the old. All the companies in Smash, barring Namco, already have 2-3 characters which is plenty to please those companies, why not reach out to Ubi and Bethesda as they’ve honestly put more work into Switch than most of the companies that are in.

 

[StormC]

You just going to sit there and do Conker like that? Joking of course, but I’ve sort of come around to the idea of Banjo and can see him getting in if leaks are to be believed. I guess I was just a little disappointed like I have been with most newcomers as I really only wanted Bandana Dee, but since that ship has sunk I guess I’ll take anyone.

Also, while this may be a bold claim, I’d say at this point that Rayman and the Rabbids have basically become the new Banjo in many respects when it comes to fan demand for Smash and overall history with Nintendo. They two have also had some pretty major revivals that I hope continue with Rabbids hanging out with Mario and the major rumors of a Rayman 4 in the works. I think Ubisoft has sort of earned a “sudo-New Rare” logo if Retro hadn’t already, so I do think another western character could come out of them.

I think many westerns have a shot, especially since Nintendo is picking DLC and their biggest friends are Bethesda, Ubisoft and soon to be Microsoft, who all jumped on day one. I’m sure Nintendo would want to help out their new partners just as much as they’ve helped out the old. All the companies in Smash, barring Namco, already have 2-3 characters which is plenty to please those companies, why not reach out to Ubi and Bethesda as they’ve honestly put more work into Switch than most of the companies that are in.

Sakurai is still involved in character choices (he picked Joker). I think people are overthinking the “companies that have been good to Nintendo will get a character” angle. How many Atlus games are on Switch? Between Persona, Banjo, and Dragon Quest, the franchises picked so far are not really indicative of that pattern (assuming the latter two are in anyway). It’s rarely that cut and dry.

As for Rayman, I think the problem still persists that he is a complete unknown in Japan. The few games released there have bombed.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You just going to sit there and do Conker like that? Joking of course, but I’ve sort of come around to the idea of Banjo and can see him getting in if leaks are to be believed. I guess I was just a little disappointed like I have been with most newcomers as I really only wanted Bandana Dee, but since that ship has sunk I guess I’ll take anyone.

Also, while this may be a bold claim, I’d say at this point that Rayman and the Rabbids have basically become the new Banjo in many respects when it comes to fan demand for Smash and overall history with Nintendo. They two have also had some pretty major revivals that I hope continue with Rabbids hanging out with Mario and the major rumors of a Rayman 4 in the works. I think Ubisoft has sort of earned a “sudo-New Rare” logo if Retro hadn’t already, so I do think another western character could come out of them.

I think many westerns have a shot, especially since Nintendo is picking DLC and their biggest friends are Bethesda, Ubisoft and soon to be Microsoft, who all jumped on day one. I’m sure Nintendo would want to help out their new partners just as much as they’ve helped out the old. All the companies in Smash, barring Namco, already have 2-3 characters which is plenty to please those companies, why not reach out to Ubi and Bethesda as they’ve honestly put more work into Switch than most of the companies that are in.

I don't think the Rabbids have what you'd call demand. In fact, maybe the opposite of demand is more accurate.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Sakurai is still involved in character choices (he picked Joker). I think people are overthinking the “companies that have been good to Nintendo will get a character” angle. How many Atlus games are on Switch? Between Persona, Banjo, and Dragon Quest, the franchises picked so far are not really indicative of that pattern (assuming the latter two are in anyway). It’s rarely that cut and dry.

As for Rayman, I think the problem still persists that he is a complete unknown in Japan. The few games released there have bombed.

Yeah, Rayman and Crash seem to have really small followings in Japan. Their best sales usually cap around 50k, from what I've seen. In some cases, literally less than 2% of their global sales come from Japan. And even then, I think it's really good to see Rayman in Smash, even as a Spirit, for that very reason.

Then again, we need to remember that sales are just one factor - even with DLC. Again, didn't come anywhere close to and in raw sales figures, but she's in. Papa Sakurai just wants to surprise us sometimes.

EDIT: Interestingly, the only exception I could find regarding the two characters I mentioned was the original Crash Bandicoot trilogy for the PS1, which sold close to/a little more than 1M in Japan.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So what do you guys say from all this

Could Erdrick be the bait

And the real final 4 is from the google theory

Banjo
Doom guy
Ryu hayabusa
Artorias

 

[Megadoomer]

So what do you guys say from all this

Could Erdrick be the bait

And the real final 4 is from the google theory

Banjo
Doom guy
Ryu hayabusa
Artorias

I can't recall anything that made the Google Theory seem legitimate. The main point in favour of it seems to be "who would go through all of the trouble to do that?", when we've seen multiple times that people can go, will go, and have gone to a lot of trouble to make Smash leaks thorough enough to fool large parts of the fanbase, like ArtsyOmni's Rayman video or the Grinch leak.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I can't recall anything that made the Google Theory seem legitimate. The main point in favour of it seems to be "who would go through all of the trouble to do that?", when we've seen multiple times that people can go, will go, and have gone to a lot of trouble to make Smash leaks thorough enough to fool large parts of the fanbase, like ArtsyOmni's Rayman video or the Grinch leak.

If I’m not mistaken I heard those are gone now

Also I meantion this is because Imran a source almost as reliable as Shinobi said he’s on board with the banjo stuff and think the Erdrick stuff is bait

 

[Megadoomer]

If I’m not mistaken I heard those are gone now

Also I meantion this is because Imran a source almost as reliable as Shinobi said he’s on board with the banjo stuff and think the Erdrick stuff is bait

I don't know; the last time that a character was assumed to be leakbait (at least from what I recall), it was Incineroar when the Grinch leaks were going on.

Dragon Quest might not be popular in the west, but it makes sense to include a character from it (particularly when Erdrick seems to be Dragon Quest's version of what Cloud is to Final Fantasy) when they're already working with Square-Enix for the base game, it's a popular and influential franchise (based on what I've read, it seems to have inspired Pokemon and Earthbound at the very least), and what we know about the second character ("brave") matches up pretty well with a Dragon Quest protagonist.

Sure, there are Square-Enix characters that I'd be more interested in (Geno, Crono, 2B...) due in part to my own unfamiliarity with Dragon Quest, but Erdrick seems to make the most sense based on what we know combined with his series' legacy.

 

[Izanagi97]

I can't recall anything that made the Google Theory seem legitimate. The main point in favour of it seems to be "who would go through all of the trouble to do that?", when we've seen multiple times that people can go, will go, and have gone to a lot of trouble to make Smash leaks thorough enough to fool large parts of the fanbase, like ArtsyOmni's Rayman video or the Grinch leak.

Only thing I know is that it hasn't been disproven yet so results are still inconclusive. I say this because the people who were trying to disprove it by making their own ads linked to Amazon instead of the Smash website. Then again, could just be Google acting weird so I dunno.

 

[Koopaul]

I'm getting nervous. There's so much buzz going on. I just have to sit tight and wait.

 

[StormC]

I'm getting nervous. There's so much buzz going on. I just have to sit tight and wait.

View attachment 226510

Amazing fan art. Who drew it?

 

[Koopaul]

Thank you! That would be me. I drew it because I was feeling anxious.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Having both Erdrick and Banjo revealed would one step closer to the puzzle.
Of course, maybe we could have one of those other two characters (the one that starts with a D) revealed as a Bonus echo/semiclone outside the fighter's pass as well alongside Banjo.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I'm getting nervous. There's so much buzz going on. I just have to sit tight and wait.

View attachment 226510

Some appropriate music for the mood of this pic, if I may.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_UtGbeVpXo

Having both Erdrick and Banjo revealed would one step closer to the puzzle.
Of course, maybe we could have one of those other two characters (the one that starts with a D) revealed as a Bonus echo/semiclone outside the fighter's pass as well alongside Banjo.

Can't say I missed those fake leak puzzles.

 

[Fenriraga]

So apparently someone is going around leaking "all" of E3?

Hoo boy.

 

[Ridrool64]

Banjo, Steve, Sans, Frisk and Crash are the ones (Western third parties popular in Japan) that stand out off the top of my head as having a chance. This fanpoll places four of them in the top 18, and Frisk (the odd one out) is confirmed to make top 20. I don't know how long any of them have had Smash support (if I had to guess, Banjo had it the longest, then Crash, then Steve, then Sans, and Frisk shortly after), and more importantly while I know that fanpolls inherently can't properly represent the fanbase as a whole since they have such a small void, Banjo's the only one I'd question still being popular among the general public.

(As an aside, Arle's the highest ranking new series character for SEGA in the west, and in Japan she just is the highest ranking SEGA character. She BARELY didn't make the poll's front in Japan. If we get a second pass, or if third party newcomers are still a thing next game, I'd dare say she really should be on all our radars until further notice. I'll not bring up this one because everybody will just spam Ren Amamiya's presence, even though a bunch of people really believe that we could get both Banjo and Steve.)

Here's a warning: if we do get Banjo, it's likely he'll be the only major Smash Fandom pick. Smash Fandom is defined as people like us, who are active online and big requestors of the characters. But more likely than not, with him they'll have that base totally covered. I would expect characters who are more niche here but bigger in other parts of the gaming world to get in, mostly because they'll tap into a totally new audience. Don't let this be K. Rool round 2, where everybody and their (grandparents think that we'll get everything and end up being disappointed when it doesn't happen.)

 

[SimonferSmash]

Wonder why most refer to BK as just Banjo.

Not only is Kazooie her own character with a snarky personality to boot but integral to the bear as well.

 

[andree123]

Got any Nintendo E3 bingo cards made by yourself?

 

[Fenriraga]

Wonder why most refer to BK as just Banjo.

Not only is Kazooie her own character with a snarky personality to boot but integral to the bear as well.

Banjo just rolls off the tounge better.

But it is weird that the one who arguably does most of the work is usually left out of abbreviations lol

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm getting nervous. There's so much buzz going on. I just have to sit tight and wait.

View attachment 226510

I know that feeling. Must be slightly worse for Banjo fans because they already got directly Grinch´d once.

So did I, but for other characters I wanted.


Less than a week now. The tension is killing me.

 

[Captain Shades]

I don't think the Rabbids have what you'd call demand. In fact, maybe the opposite of demand is more accurate.

I meant Rayman more so, I just included the Rabbids as they are technically an extension of Rayman.

Sakurai is still involved in character choices (he picked Joker). I think people are overthinking the “companies that have been good to Nintendo will get a character” angle. How many Atlus games are on Switch? Between Persona, Banjo, and Dragon Quest, the franchises picked so far are not really indicative of that pattern (assuming the latter two are in anyway). It’s rarely that cut and dry.

As for Rayman, I think the problem still persists that he is a complete unknown in Japan. The few games released there have bombed.

Atlus is actually pretty close with Nintendo though...

Excluding Persona due to it being a big Sony deal, the series that one is a spinoff of, the Shin Megami Tensei series, has been on Nintendo platforms for years now and just like the Rabbids it made its way up to Nintendo crossover status with Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE. Atlus is also owned by Sega, who is definitely a big Nintendo partner, so I don’t get why Atlus is really questioned for getting a rep.

Also the other characters would still fit the mold as Dragon Quest has been a huge Nintendo series, and the two Microsoft reps have made major history on Nintendo.

I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to believe that Nintendo’s new partners may get some time to shine.