Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[thisjustin2001]

Good to know Castlevania, Metroid Prime, Persona 5, Donkey Kong Country and Banjo-Kazooie are "niche "fan service"" picks.

Just because you didn't play a game doesnt make it niche. Those are some of my favourite games of all time, and some of the most critically acclaimed games of all time. We can all want characters we know and love, but throwing around unqualified statements does nothing but annoy people.

Simon and Richter haven't been relevant in many, many years. Metroid Prime hasn't had a mainline game in over a decade, King K Rool before Smash had been irrelevant for two decades. Banjo-Kazooie hasn't had a game in over a decade, and hasn't had a good game in two. Persona 5 is critically acclaimed, but you'd be mistaken to think it's not niche. I was born in the early 2000's and at no point in my life have these characters been important. Idk what about this is an "unqualified statement".

 

[BluePikmin11]

"Smash tend to have characters from older series. But just old characters wouldn’t make Smash worthy. If there is no new series, then the selection of the characters will be from the old series." - Sakurai, DLC talk
If there is no new Microsoft series, then the selection of the characters will be from Banjo or Halo. But there is Minecraft. IMO.

Frankly, I think Nintendo has probably given a large list of third-parties to Sakurai from newer franchises. There is Joker for example.

Though if Erdrick is assumed in, then there is probably a healthy amount of older third-parties being suggested too. I think it is more likely going to be a mixed deal.

 

[StormC]

Simon and Richter haven't been relevant in many, many years. Metroid Prime hasn't had a mainline game in over a decade, King K Rool before Smash had been irrelevant for two decades. Banjo-Kazooie hasn't had a game in over a decade, and hasn't had a good game in two. Persona 5 is critically acclaimed, but you'd be mistaken to think it's not niche. I was born in the early 2000's and at no point in my life have these characters been important. Idk what about this is an "unqualified statement".

P5 sold ~3 million copies. It’s not Minecraft or Fortnite but I have a hard time calling that niche. And what of characters like Inkling, Isabelle and Incineroar?

 

[Wunderwaft]

Persona’s menus aren’t THAT iconic. And Simon’s games aren’t even the one in the Metroidvania style. But if you wanna talk legacy...

-The term “collectathon” originated from the Rare N64 games.
-A spiritual successor by old Rare staff broke records for how fast a project gets funded on Kickstarter.
-The Banjo “mumble speak” is instantly recognizable to anyone who is plugged into gamer culture.
-They’re still releasing new Banjo merch 20 years after his heyday.
-Banjo is probably the most requested character of the last 20 years of Smash that still isn’t in. Check any social media post by Nintendo about Smash and it’s flooded with Banjo.

This reeks of goalpost moving.

I'm dissecting each point separately

-If you want to talk about origins then Super Mario 64 takes the credit for being the originator of the collectathon term, not Rare's games.
-Tons of other Kickstarter projects got bigger funding, it doesn't mean these projects ended up being good or memorable.
-The mumble speak is only recognizable to people who played the Banjo games, you are massively overestimating how well known this is to the general gaming community.
-Banjo is still getting new stuff because his parent company is still alive. Other lesser known video game series like Bubsy are still alive because of this. This isn't an exclusive point to Banjo's legacy.
-Banjo's request craze only started during the Smash 4 DLC era, before that Banjo support has been quiet for the most part. The most requested character of the last 20 years is Ridley, no one else comes close to how earth shattering and big(*wink* *wink*) the character is in terms of support and discussion.

 

[Nquoid]

Simon and Richter haven't been relevant in many, many years. Metroid Prime hasn't had a mainline game in over a decade, King K Rool before Smash had been irrelevant for two decades. Banjo-Kazooie hasn't had a game in over a decade, and hasn't had a good game in two. Persona 5 is critically acclaimed, but you'd be mistaken to think it's not niche. I was born in the early 2000's and at no point in my life have these characters been important. Idk what about this is an "unqualified statement".

Imagine being a fan of literally any other medium and completely discounting the history of a medium? Just because something hasn't had a new game doesn't make it irrelevant.
Metroid Prime 4 is coming to Switch and Metroid Prime Trilogy is heavily rumoured as well.
The Banjo series has been remastered in HD and been an integral part of an Xbox One collection released only 4 years ago.
Castlevania was, until Konami literally stopped making games, a key franchise for them. Castlevania and Super Castlevania IV were part of the NES and SNES Classic and Konami are literally releasing a Castlevania Collection to celebrate their 50th Anniversary. And Richter is also in Symphony of the Night, widely regarded as THE seminal game in an entire genre.
King K. Rool was a vital part of making Donkey Kong into a viable franchise, which still stands to this day, even if he isn't the main villain anymore.

You can dislike characters. You can say that you didn't get a chance to play those games easily during your lifetime. But please don't confuse your personal biases with whether or not a character is relevant to Smash. Every single character there matters more to the history and longevity of Nintendo than many, many other characters

And for reference, here is where those "niche" games end up on a collated list of the best games of all time:
Metroid Prime - #35
Donkey Kong Country - #117
Banjo-Kazooie - #123
Castlevania - #256

 

[StormC]

I'm dissecting each point separately

-If you want to talk about origins then Super Mario 64 takes the credit for being the originator of the collectathon term, not Rare's games.
-Tons of other Kickstarter projects got bigger funding, it doesn't mean these projects ended up being good or memorable.
-The mumble speak is only recognizable to people who played the Banjo games, you are massively overestimating how well know this is to the general gaming community.
-Banjo is still getting new stuff because his parent company is still alive. Other lesser known video game series like Bubsy are still alive because of this. This isn't an exclusive point to Banjo's legacy.
-Banjo's request craze only started during the Smash 4 DLC era, before that Banjo support has been quiet for the most part. The most requested character of the last 20 years is Ridley, no one else comes close to how earth shattering and big(*wink* *wink*) the character is in terms of support and discussion.

Ridley is in, dawg. Hence why I said “still not in.” And the Kickstarter point is simply to show that Banjo has left a massive legacy even after all these years; regardless of the quality, people were hungry for more Banjo, and what appeared to be the next best thing became at the time the fastest funded Kickstarter game in history.

The term collectathon was generated largely as a response to games like Banjo and DK64, even if SM64 technically started the genre, much like Metroid and Castlevania. Basically all game journalists will namedrop Banjo as a turning point for it:

https://the-artifice.com/nintendo-collectathon/

https://www.destructoid.com/reflect...e-of-the-collectathon-platformer-498916.phtml

But hey...don’t take it from me. Let’s see what Sakurai has to say at E3.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Ridley is in, dawg. Hence why I said “still not in.”

Oh, my mistake. I can't believe I missed these three words.

But hey...don’t take it from me. Let’s see what Sakurai has to say at E3.

Things are pointing towards a remaster of the games more than a Smash inclusion. But hey what do I know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[thisjustin2001]

P5 sold ~3 million copies. It’s not Minecraft or Fortnite but I have a hard time calling that niche. And what of characters like Inkling, Isabelle and Incineroar?

Those three are the only characters since Ultimate's base roster that have made any effort to bring in a big crowd of new players, instead of pandering to the hardcore demographic that are already playing Smash. I just wish Sakurai cared more about pleasing the majority, instead of the hardcore demographic who are insisting this irrelevant character get in and this obscure character get in.

EDIT: Joker (while niche) getting added is putting forth some effort to bring some new people into Smash, though myself and many others don't care about him.

 

[RileyXY1]

Those three are the only characters since Ultimate's base roster that have made any effort to bring in a big crowd of new players, instead of pandering to the hardcore demographic that are already playing Smash. I just wish Sakurai cared more about pleasing the majority, instead of the hardcore demographic who are insisting this irrelevant character get in and this obscure character get in.

EDIT: Joker (while niche) getting added is putting forth some effort to bring some new people into Smash, though myself and many others don't care about him.

If that was the case, then Smash's roster would only comprise of popular and relevant characters.

 

[StormC]

Those three are the only characters since Ultimate's base roster that have made any effort to bring in a big crowd of new players, instead of pandering to the hardcore demographic that are already playing Smash. I just wish Sakurai cared more about pleasing the majority, instead of the hardcore demographic who are insisting this irrelevant character get in and this obscure character get in.

EDIT: Joker (while niche) getting added is putting forth some effort to bring some new people into Smash, though myself and many others don't care about him.

Smash Ultimate is going to end up doubling the sales of the previously highest selling Smash (Brawl). Whatever he’s doing it seems to be working.

Honestly, it kinda sounds like you just don’t play many games.

 

[thisjustin2001]

Imagine being a fan of literally any other medium and completely discounting the history of a medium? Just because something hasn't had a new game doesn't make it irrelevant.
Metroid Prime 4 is coming to Switch and Metroid Prime Trilogy is heavily rumoured as well.
The Banjo series has been remastered in HD and been an integral part of an Xbox One collection released only 4 years ago.
Castlevania was, until Konami literally stopped making games, a key franchise for them. Castlevania and Super Castlevania IV were part of the NES and SNES Classic and Konami are literally releasing a Castlevania Collection to celebrate their 50th Anniversary. And Richter is also in Symphony of the Night, widely regarded as THE seminal game in an entire genre.
King K. Rool was a vital part of making Donkey Kong into a viable franchise, which still stands to this day, even if he isn't the main villain anymore.

You can dislike characters. You can say that you didn't get a chance to play those games easily during your lifetime. But please don't confuse your personal biases with whether or not a character is relevant to Smash. Every single character there matters more to the history and longevity of Nintendo than many, many other characters

And for reference, here is where those "niche" games end up on a collated list of the best games of all time:
Metroid Prime - #35
Donkey Kong Country - #117
Banjo-Kazooie - #123
Castlevania - #256

Being critically acclaimed doesn't make a game popular. And yes, a game series no longer seeing releases and lying dormant does make it irrelevant. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. Also, how can you act as if everyone born from the 2000's on is a small demographic? Yes, I can say I didn't get a chance to experience these characters in their games, because they've been irrelevant since before I came into this world, or since I was a baby, and so can every other person who was born in that time period!

If that was the case, then Smash's roster would only comprise of popular and relevant characters.

Is it such a bad thing to want the majority of Smash newcomers to be comprised of popular and relevant characters?

Smash Ultimate is going to end up doubling the sales of the previously highest selling Smash (Brawl). Whatever he’s doing it seems to be working.

Honestly, it kinda sounds like you just don’t play many games.

In fact, I do. I've played games since I was very young, but I play games that have come out in my time period, which is why I don't feel as much nostalgia for these characters that are getting added into Smash lately.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Those three are the only characters since Ultimate's base roster that have made any effort to bring in a big crowd of new players, instead of pandering to the hardcore demographic that are already playing Smash. I just wish Sakurai cared more about pleasing the majority, instead of the hardcore demographic who are insisting this irrelevant character get in and this obscure character get in.

EDIT: Joker (while niche) getting added is putting forth some effort to bring some new people into Smash, though myself and many others don't care about him.

While most of the roster consists of characters from the 80s and 90s, I think that's to be expected of a crossover that celebrates gaming history. And besides, even most of these are characters that remain popular and please "the majority" to this day. It's why Mario, Pokémon and Fire Emblem normally gain characters to represent newer games in every iteration.

Sakurai's philosophy has always been to please casual fans in every iteration of Smash and bring in more new people. Even if some features have been made for the hardcore audience, Smash is still primarily made with general audiences in mind.

So I frankly fail to understand how a few picks to please the smaller fanbases would change that. In fact, a lot of these "irrelevant" characters were picked by Sakurai himself, especially Pre-Smash 4. But most of the roster is still recognisable. The majority already is composed of popular and relevant characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

??? What did Banjo-Kazooie do to influence gaming that Super Mario 64 and the billion other collectathons at the time didn't already do?

Banjo-Kazooie is THE collectathon. Collectathons take much more inspiration from B-K than from Mario 64. It's the perfection of a genre. It's like saying Chrono Trigger isn't influential because there's many other RPGs.

I'm not arguing that the other characters aren't obscure. That's why I said "I hope Nintendo doesn't add MORE obscure characters". I just want a character from a game I actually play. I miss the days of being excited when newcomers were revealed for Smash. I'm getting sick of the niche "fan service" picks like K. Rool, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, Joker, etc. I just don't understand why Nintendo would think it's a good idea to pamper the hardcore fanbase, and rarely throw the rest of the fans a bone...

Sounds to me like you just mean yourself when you say the rest of the fans. Also you don't appear to have played many games.

Being critically acclaimed doesn't make a game popular. And yes, a game series no longer seeing releases and lying dormant does make it irrelevant. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. Also, how can you act as if everyone born from the 2000's on is a small demographic? Yes, I can say I didn't get a chance to experience these characters in their games, because they've been irrelevant since before I came into this world, or since I was a baby, and so can every other person who was born in that time period!

No excuse, bro. I was born in the year 2000 and I've played all of those games.

Plus, way to ignore the message you were replying to. All of those franchises were relevant way past the 2000s.

What games have you played that you consider reasonable additions?

Is it such a bad thing to want the majority of Smash newcomers to be comprised of popular and relevant characters?

If variety is good, then the opposite of variety is the opposite of good.

 

[Nquoid]

Being critically acclaimed doesn't make a game popular.

No but it helps it stand the test of time. Do you really think people would be fighting so hard for Banjo if they didn't think those games were era defining? As people have said, Yooka Laylee was one of the most successful crowd funding efforts of all time, precisely because of how still popular Banjo is.

And yes, a game series no longer seeing releases and lying dormant does make it irrelevant. I don't know why you'd think otherwise.

Spyro and Crash hadn't appeared in games since 2008 and hadn't appeared in great games since the 90s. And they're respective remasters have sold incredibly well. Everything comes and goes. People are still excited to see Mother 3 announced this year maybe. A game that came out 13 years ago in Japan. By your logic, that's a dead franchise. So are you about to tell fans that wanting to see Porky as a DLC character is dumb? Or is that a character you like and therefore isn't the same as the other characters you mentioned?

Also, how can you act as if everyone born from the 2000's on is a small demographic? Yes, I can say I didn't get a chance to experience these characters in their games, because they've been irrelevant since before I came into this world, or since I was a baby, and so can every other person who was born in that time period!

I never argued they were a small demographic? However ALL of those games have been available on multiple consoles that have been around since you were born. So you not playing them is entirely on you.

The Matrix came out before you born, but we aren't about to make the argument that that's an irrelevant movie just because there hasn't been a new one since 2003.

The oldest character in Smash is from 1980, a full decade before I was born. It isn't my place to comment on the relevancy or importance of characters. I can have opinions. I can say I'd rather this character over that one. But I'm not about to mistake my subjective likes and dislikes for the arbiter of who should and shouldn't be in Smash based purely on "was this game released since I was born"

EDIT - I'm tired of this being negative. Who would you like to see in the game? I don't want to have to keep defending character that are important to me. Because so far all I see is a real disappointment to every newcomer in Smash Ultimate.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Also, how can you act as if everyone born from the 2000's on is a small demographic?

This is a big assumption.

Banjo-Tooie was released in November of 2000 and while a lot of Banjo-Kazooie fans didn't like Nuts & Bolts as a mainline B-K game, a lot of people including some B-K fans still liked it regardless (though Banjo's personality change is dumb imo). B-K and B-T were re-released on the 360, ported to the XBone, and Rare Replay was released in 2016. They're even putting the games on the demo-things in Microsoft stores - and not as their own special thing, but as an option among different games, and someone said a kid was playing B-K after he quit.

And yes some B-K fans make big assumptions too tbh or at least seem too (I think they're fair due to the stuff I've mentioned), but B-K was the top 10 best-seller on the N64 and, other than sales, we can't really make any concrete way of knowing this stuff.

 

[StormC]

Super Mario Bros. 3 and Mega Man 2 are some of my all time favorite games but since they came out before I was born I never had the chance to play them. Shame...

 

[RouffWestie]

Those three are the only characters since Ultimate's base roster that have made any effort to bring in a big crowd of new players, instead of pandering to the hardcore demographic that are already playing Smash. I just wish Sakurai cared more about pleasing the majority, instead of the hardcore demographic who are insisting this irrelevant character get in and this obscure character get in.

EDIT: Joker (while niche) getting added is putting forth some effort to bring some new people into Smash, though myself and many others don't care about him.

You can name 10 franchises not represented in Smash yet and I guarantee you the people already playing Smash outnumber half of them.
They are the majority. He's already pandering to the bigger crowd by default.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I'm tired of this being negative. Who would you like to see in the game? I don't want to have to keep defending character that are important to me. Because so far all I see is a real disappointment to every newcomer in Smash Ultimate.

I'd like to speculate about characters from companies that aren't SE and Microsoft for now. I think a possible Bandai Namco character would be anyone's guess, considering Tales, Tekken, Soul Calibur and others. Bamco may be the biggest mystery of all when it comes to possible DLC characters.

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo-Kazooie is THE collectathon. Collectathons take much more inspiration from B-K than from Mario 64. It's the perfection of a genre. It's like saying Chrono Trigger isn't influential because there's many other RPGs.

I particularly dont care much about this conflict regarding Banjo's influence or importance, but this statement is wrong. Popular collecthathons like A Hat in Time took inspiration in the movement and design from games like Sunshine. Underplaying the fact that collecthathons take Mario as a base is silly and uneccessary.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I particularly dont care much about this conflict regarding Banjo's influence or importance, but this statement is wrong. Popular collecthathons like A Hat in Time took inspiration in the movement and design from games like Sunshine. Underplaying the fact that collecthathons take Mario as a base is silly and uneccessary.

Good point, I forgot about A Hat in Time. Didn't mean to downplay the Mario platformers, they're certainly the other pillar of the genre.

 

[FancySmash]

There's more than just Banjo having good games from some time ago that make people want him in Smash. I think a large part of it is just seeing a character finally return home, even if it's just a visit. Banjo used to be a Nintendo character, who was taken away after the Rare buyout. It'd be the completion of an arc to see Banjo one last time on a Nintendo console. Also, just because he hasn't seen a release in some time doesn't mean he's outright disqualified. Maybe for some series that weren't that popular, but like it or not, Banjo's clearly popular. By that logic, Ness and Lucas shouldn't be here.

As for wanting only relevant and popular characters... Smash 4. Doing that runs the risk that you add a fad character. Look at Corrin. That was a relevant pick, and a pick that, to many, hasn't aged all that well. A large factor is letting a character prove themselves to be more than just a recent face that has some popularity now, that might not have said popularity later.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I dug up an old prediction wishlist I made before E3 2018.
I decided to cull anyone based on whether they appeared in the game without being an official playable character, even as a Spirit. I'm waffling on Vaati though since his Spirit doesn't depict his human form.

Spoiler

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I dug up an old prediction wishlist I made before E3 2018.
I decided to cull anyone based on whether they appeared in the game without being an official playable character, even as a Spirit. I'm waffling on Vaati though since his Spirit doesn't depict his human form.

Spoiler

View attachment 226140

I think you can cull Kratos as well if you're trying to go for "realistic chances". Pretty sure he has a lesser chance than even the Assist Trophies, let alone the Spirits you crossed out.

Master Chief is quite debatable as well, I'd say he has a higher chance than Kratos at the very least due to Microsoft's friendliness with Nintendo ATM, but not much higher. Still below everyone you X'd out due to his series never appearing on a Nintendo console.

 

[thisjustin2001]

I dug up an old prediction wishlist I made before E3 2018.
I decided to cull anyone based on whether they appeared in the game without being an official playable character, even as a Spirit. I'm waffling on Vaati though since his Spirit doesn't depict his human form.

Spoiler

View attachment 226140

Sceptile, Scorpion, Master Chief, Sans, Decidueye, Quote, Steve and Sora would be pretty sick.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I think you can cull Kratos as well if you're trying to go for "realistic chances". Pretty sure he has a lesser chance than even the Assist Trophies, let alone the Spirits you crossed out.

Master Chief is quite debatable as well, I'd say he has a higher chance than Kratos at the very least due to Microsoft's friendliness with Nintendo ATM, but not much higher. Still below everyone you X'd out due to his series never appearing on a Nintendo console.

I'm taking an "innocent until proven guilty" stance on third-party characters, so I'm not knocking Kratos (or anyone like Doomguy or Binding of Isaac) off until they've been put in the game as anything but a playable character.

I didn't believe Joker could make it in, yet I didn't cross him off the list.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm taking an "innocent until proven guilty" stance on third-party characters, so I'm not knocking Kratos (or anyone like Doomguy or Binding of Isaac) off until they've been put in the game as anything but a playable character.

I didn't believe Joker could make it in, yet I didn't cross him off the list.

Great. You should take that "innocent until proven guilty" stance on Spirits as well, then. And Joker (and his series) has appeared on Nintendo consoles unlike Kratos or Chief.

 

[Opossum]

Great. You should take that "innocent until proven guilty" stance on Spirits as well, then.

I think spirits are a pretty explicit disconfirmation, really.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Great. You should take that "innocent until proven guilty" stance on Spirits as well, then.

No Spirits or Assist Trophies have been promoted from this iteration of Smash, and last I checked Sakurai came up with Spirits as a means for characters that couldn't be made playable for one reason or another to be given a chance to fight.

I'll un-X them all the moment someone like Geno or Waluigi becomes playable, but until then, Spirits and Assist Trophies are a hard deconfirm in my eyes.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

No Spirits or Assist Trophies have been promoted from this iteration of Smash, and last I checked Sakurai came up with Spirits as a means for characters that couldn't be made playable for one reason or another to be given a chance to fight.

I'll un-X them all the moment someone like Geno or Waluigi becomes playable, but until then, Spirits and Assist Trophies are a hard deconfirm in my eyes.

And no characters that have never appeared on a Nintendo console have been ever confirmed either so using your logic, Kratos and Master Chief should be X'd as well until the moment a character like them becomes playable.

Also Spirits are the replacement of trophies, they were made because trophies took too much development time to model. Mewtwo and Lucas became playable after being trophies in Smash 4, so clearly if they were able to go out of their way to make a playable character after an entire 3D model was already made a JPEG wouldn't stop them either.

I think spirits are a pretty explicit disconfirmation, really.

Barring the fact that no one has ever come out and said that, I think the same for characters from series that have never appeared on Nintendo consoles.

 

[Megadoomer]

No Spirits or Assist Trophies have been promoted from this iteration of Smash, and last I checked Sakurai came up with Spirits as a means for characters that couldn't be made playable for one reason or another to be given a chance to fight.

I'll un-X them all the moment someone like Geno or Waluigi becomes playable, but until then, Spirits and Assist Trophies are a hard deconfirm in my eyes.

I'm not so sure. On one hand, spirits are this game's trophy equivalent, and having trophies in Smash 4 didn't stop Mewtwo and Lucas from being made playable through DLC.

On the other hand, we know that every fighter's pass character is going to come with a set of spirits, and that might be harder to do when so many characters have spirits in the game already. It's certainly still possible, but it seems less likely. (especially when some characters only have a single piece of artwork to work with)

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm not so sure. On one hand, spirits are this game's trophy equivalent, and having trophies in Smash 4 didn't stop Mewtwo and Lucas from being made playable through DLC.

On the other hand, we know that every fighter's pass character is going to come with a set of spirits, and that might be harder to do when so many characters have spirits in the game already. It's certainly still possible, but it seems less likely. (especially when some characters only have a single piece of artwork to work with)

I don't think Spirits are likely to appear in the current Fighter's Pass either, but I think the best hope for them would be either as bonus characters outside the pass or as part of a second fighter's pass with different rules.
Of course, Spirits being unlikely still doesn't make me think they are a tier below some other characters as I mentioned above. Every single one of them is still far above Kratos or Chief.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

We've kind of running in circles with Square-Enix and Microsoft for half a year now, So what do y'all think about the chances of having a Level-5 games character?

I'll acknowledge my bias, since I'm a big professor Layton fan, but I still do believe LEvel-5 are quite the overlooked company in the speculation scene for smash. Perhaps they are not in quite the same prestigious tier as Sega, Capcom, Bandai-Namco, or Square-Enix, but they do have a few noteworthy game series like Professor Layton, Yo-kai Watch, Inazuma Eleven, Ni no Kuni, etc. Additionally most of their series are nearly exclusively featured on Nintendo consoles.

Out of their cast of characters, the only ones I see having the starpower for a DLC spot is either Professor Layton or Jibanyan.

 

[Gameboi834]

We've kind of running in circles with Square-Enix and Microsoft for half a year now, So what do y'all think about the chances of having a Level-5 games character?

Out of their cast of characters, the only ones I see having the starpower for a DLC spot is either Professor Layton or Jibanyan.

I sorta feel like this is why Level-5 isn't brought up all too often =P
These two are the most likely candidates aaand...yeah. That basically sums it up. Luke and some Yokai Mii fighters, St. Mystere or the Yokai world as the stage, badda bing badda boom.

 

[GoodGrief741]

We've kind of running in circles with Square-Enix and Microsoft for half a year now, So what do y'all think about the chances of having a Level-5 games character?

I'll acknowledge my bias, since I'm a big professor Layton fan, but I still do believe LEvel-5 are quite the overlooked company in the speculation scene for smash. Perhaps they are not in quite the same prestigious tier as Sega, Capcom, Bandai-Namco, or Square-Enix, but they do have a few noteworthy game series like Professor Layton, Yo-kai Watch, Inazuma Eleven, Ni no Kuni, etc. Additionally most of their series are nearly exclusively featured on Nintendo consoles.

Out of their cast of characters, the only ones I see having the starpower for a DLC spot is either Professor Layton or Jibanyan.

I think there's a reasonable chance it'll happen. If we get one, it's Layton for sure. Jibanyan isn't Smash caliber yet, and probably will never be at this rate.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I think there's a reasonable chance it'll happen. If we get one, it's Layton for sure. Jibanyan isn't Smash caliber yet, and probably will never be at this rate.

Eh I’d say he’s around Bayonetta caliber, maybe even a little more. Yo-Kai already kind of did it’s major boom and didn’t really have staying power in the west, but it’s not completely dead, it’s still got a game coming on Switch after all.

Still I completely agree that Layton would be the better choice overall in terms of legacy and worldwide appeal.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yo-Kai already kind of did it’s major boom and didn’t really have staying power in the west...

I feel like it's because the west tends to go "It's a rip-off of X" when they see something similar to something else. That and Yo-Kai watch seems to be marketed more heavily towards children.

 

[Captain Shades]

Persona’s menus aren’t THAT iconic. And Simon’s games aren’t even the one in the Metroidvania style. But if you wanna talk legacy...

-The term “collectathon” originated from the Rare N64 games.
-A spiritual successor by old Rare staff broke records for how fast a project gets funded on Kickstarter.
-The Banjo “mumble speak” is instantly recognizable to anyone who is plugged into gamer culture.
-They’re still releasing new Banjo merch 20 years after his heyday.
-Banjo is probably the most requested character of the last 20 years of Smash that still isn’t in. Check any social media post by Nintendo about Smash and it’s flooded with Banjo.

This reeks of goalpost moving.

How much has that stuff really held up though? Judging by Yooka Laylee and DK 64 which ride off Banjo, the cracks in Banjo’s entire gameplay structure became very apparent, with some even claiming that Tooie was the start to downgrading from Banjo.

Even some staples like the mumble speak were heavily criticized in Yooka as people believed mumble speak is annoying and a product of older times that has no place in modern gaming. Just because it’s iconic doesn’t necessarily mean it’s aged well...looking at you screaming Rabbids.

Collectathons as a whole have pretty much become a dead sub genre. Most platformers find their footing in Mario 64’s gameplay when it comes to 3D platformers or do something more akin to the Sony ones. No one except Rare seems to copy Banjo and when they have the previous two times, people either hated or found the titles mediocre.

As for the Kick Starter, I love how you leave out the game’s backing by popular YouTuber JonTron and how the removal of him caused many to leave and request refunds, hinting that he may have been a major cause of the success. Literally that entire Kick Starter went to hell when Jon was announced to be removed from the game and huge fight between Playtonic and their backers erupted as Playtonic wasn’t giving back the money.

As for the merch, they just started, as to why they are releasing merch is still a mystery, though apparently Banjo was cut from Loot Box so apparently someone didn’t find Banjo enough of a demanded figure to create crates for unlike Mega Man and Sonic. Also the figures released just seem to be for competing with Sony as Sony uses the same company and releases figures of their characters which are mostly dead at this point. If we’re using this company as a basis than Banjo is as relevant as Parapa the Rapper and Sack Boy. Also Conker would then be just as likely.

Finally your point about posts isn’t that great, why, well remember who else was posted throughout social media on every Smash thing for the longest time

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I feel like it's because the west tends to go "It's a rip-off of X" when they see something similar to something else. That and Yo-Kai watch seems to be marketed more heavily towards children.

True, I also feel like Yo-Kai Watch is more entrenched in Japanese myth and folklore than Pokémon is, which is often lost on the western audiences.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Edit: Going to move the post to the next page to get a discussion started.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

So now Verg is even 99% on Banjo. To me that's 100% confirmation. Congrats Banjo fans. I have absolutely zero connection to the character and have never even owned an N64 but I'm happy for all of you that have been wanting him in Smash Bros since before I was even born (one month after the NA release of Melee).

Btw don't give up hope Steve fans. I'm sticking to my prediction that both are going to get into the game since both offer completely different and unique elements to Smash Bros.