Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Gotta say, while I don't particularly care too much about BK being in or not, the whole cereal mascot seems like a lame way to insult a character just like anime swordman. Just my thoughts

 

[Nquoid]

So Banjo’s got leaks huh...

Well good for him, while I personally prefer Steve as I actually play Minecraft, I’m really not against Banjo. I actually just recently bought the stuffed animal of him from GameStop as I assumed some of his titles will become available to play on Switch.

I guess the race is on though, will it be Steve or Banjo. I’m rooting for Steve and have fun debating between the two, but since Banjo does seem to have more of a chance now, I guess I’ll send my respects to Nquoid , maybe we’ll both get our characters.

I'm not about to let you give up hope that easy! We can still debate this for another week! It's not even over for Steve or Banjo if one or neither is announced at E3! I am genuinely rooting for some kind of Minecraft content in Smash like the Vergeben leaks said, even if I'm not sold on Steve as a character.

For far too long, fans of "rosterwank" characters like Banjo, Geno, and Isaac have controlled newcomer speculation. Well now I'm fighting back. People got way too greedy after getting fanservice characters like Ridley and K. Rool, so now they think their literal whos deserve to be playable as well instead of icons that defined generations.

Who would you want the conversation to focus on instead of Banjo, Geno and Isaac then? I can tell by your username that you like Sceptile, which is something we can 100% agree on. But unless you want to offer characters who you feel should be the focus of the discourse, this is just insulting a big, big proportion of the Smash speculation base.

Also can you name any company who isn't owned by Nintendo and still "defined a generation" as much as Rare did the N64. Because I sure as hell can't.

 

[N3ON]

I’d play a cereal mascot brawler in a hot minute.

 

[GoodGrief741]

This is yet another meaningless leak. I mean. Come on. "Some literal who just made a random prediction that Nintendo would announce Smash in that one Direct! What's that? He got it right? Wow! He must be the real deal!" You'd think Banjo fans would have learned from the Grinch leak not to prematurely get their hopes up yet again, but I guess some things never change... Steve is still more likely because he isn't a cereal mascot from a dead franchise whose fanbase already overlaps with Smash's. Honestly. Banjo sucks and is criminally overrated. He had two mediocre games on an old console nearly two decades ago... So what? They didn't do anything to revolutionize the genre, there are far better 3D games out there and I don't really care for Kirkhope's music either.

icons that defined generations.

You mean like Banjo?

 

[StormC]

Reminder that the original Banjo-Kazooie sold more than any single Mega Man, Castlevania, or Persona game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please do not respond to or talk about the user SuperSceptile15. They are currently banned at this time. They can neither reply or respond to any posts related to them. Thank you for your time.

 

[Door Key Pig]

What if everyone expects Banjo from this leak buthen it turns out of be someone so like Crash or Steve? The Wayne Knight leaker (can we call it the Wayne Knight leak plz???) would be a NOTORIOUS troll, right?
(Just saying this in the event I call something...)

 

[RileyXY1]

There's the possibility that we can be "Grinched" and Banjo, Steve, and/or Erdrick are not playable at all. I would prefer this because the three characters I listed are just too predictable.

 

[Door Key Pig]

There's the possibility that we can be "Grinched" and Banjo, Steve, and/or Erdrick are not playable at all. I would prefer this because the three characters I listed are just too predictable.

Can that still be possible with Erdrick? Would "all those leakers have to be wrong" or something?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's the possibility that we can be "Grinched" and Banjo, Steve, and/or Erdrick are not playable at all. I would prefer this because the three characters I listed are just too predictable.

I thought that about King. K. Rool and Ridley during the DLC speculation since they seemed inevitable to me (and I didn't care much for them).

Considering we don't have solid evidence for most of these characters I think we're safe from predicting them all.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

There's the possibility that we can be "Grinched" and Banjo, Steve, and/or Erdrick are not playable at all. I would prefer this because the three characters I listed are just too predictable.

I can take the former. The rest is coincidences upon rumors upon assumptions. *insert JonTron's Fool Me Three Times quote here*

Can that still be possible with Erdrick? Would "all those leakers have to be wrong" or something?

King Zell and PolarPanda have been correct in regards to leaking, so if anything it'd be more of a "Sturgeon's Law of leakers" case.

 

[RileyXY1]

Can that still be possible with Erdrick? Would "all those leakers have to be wrong" or something?

Most of them shot their credibility in the foot one way or another. Remember when the vast majority of leakers thought that Erdrick would be the first DLC character revealed? Joker got revealed, and Vergeben had to do damage control with the fanbase, claiming that it was a last minute switch, which is doubtful considering the amount of effort that had to be put into Joker's reveal trailer. Vergeben also got all of his claims wrong for the Nintendo Direct last February, especially considering that he claimed that the new Zelda title will have nothing to do with Link's Awakening, a game that was announced to be receiving a remake. Hitagi's constant backpedaling on Katalina from Granblue Fantasy shows that he is not credible and never has been.

 

[dezeray112]

In regards to Banjo, I personally wouldn't mind him. Although, I'm really hoping we don't get a repeat of that Grinch leak again.

 

[Curious Villager]

At this point, I just want them to announce both the Square and Microsoft characters soon (assuming they really are in) so we can finally move on to speculating about the last two fighters.

We've been going around in circles with these two companies for months now. Maybe even a whole year when it comes to Microsoft...

 

[Captain Shades]

I'm not about to let you give up hope that easy! We can still debate this for another week! It's not even over for Steve or Banjo if one or neither is announced at E3! I am genuinely rooting for some kind of Minecraft content in Smash like the Vergeben leaks said, even if I'm not sold on Steve as a character.

Not really giving up, more like acknowledging that I might be wrong and getting the “apology” thing over with as K Rool fans set up and certainly Banjo fans will likely follow suit.

Honestly, since the last character is still shrouded in mystery, do you think there’s a chance Microsoft can get two. Maybe Banjo ends the DLC as the big finisher instead of Ninja Gaiden.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that if the DLC is all 3rd Party like most think, then I highly doubt that we will see a company get two reps.

 

[Captain Shades]

I think that if the DLC is all 3rd Party like most think, then I highly doubt that we will see a company get two reps.

I don’t know, Microsoft sort of has a strong hold on some huge characters, maybe an exception can be made. Plus they wouldn’t be the first to have two reps as Capcom, Konami, and Square (most likely) all have two and SEGA has 3.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don’t know, Microsoft sort of has a strong hold on some huge characters, maybe an exception can be made. Plus they wouldn’t be the first to have two reps as Capcom, Konami, and Square (most likely) all have two and SEGA has 3.

I was talking about having two characters from the same company in the same Fighter Pass, which I highly doubt is going to happen.

 

[Captain Shades]

I was talking about having two characters from the same company in the same Fighter Pass, which I highly doubt is going to happen.

Maybe, but to be fair, Microsoft does have the heavy hitters unlike most companies plus we now have 5 instead of 4 new characters like in Smash Wii U. I think the fact that no one can really pin point the last two DLC, mainly the last one, makes me think that there is a chance.

Steve and Banjo probably both had a high amount of requests. Steve was big with the younger generation, so just like Castlevania the series probably slipped under the radar for most list makers as ages 8-12 most likely didn’t participate in fan polls and we know Banjo was big. Both also have new games this year that could be advertised which is a trend with fighter DLC as they sell games within the same year or a year or two earlier. Steve has Dungeons and Banjo is rumored to have 3, and if Microsoft is putting both franchises on Switch than Nintendo may want to aid in boosting their sales.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not all characters have to be promotions for upcoming games on the Switch. Joker got in, yet there's no indication of the Switch either getting a port of Persona 5 or a new entry in the series.

 

[Captain Shades]

Not all characters have to be promotions for upcoming games on the Switch. Joker got in, yet there's no indication of the Switch either getting a port of Persona 5 or a new entry in the series.

Sorry, I didn’t mean just Switch. Persona 5 was only a year or two old when Joker was announced, so the Smash Team seems to like recent titles. Even in Smash 4 Bayonetta was only a year or two off from her 2nd title and Ryu released around the same time as Street Fighter V. The only odd one was Cloud, though FF7’s remake was announced about the same time as Cloud in Smash. Corrin also promoted Fates.

Going in to this DLC I feel we can expect the same, Joker is already a newer release character, and the other speculated ones would follow as Steve has Dungeons, Ryu has rumors of a new Ninja Gaiden, Doom Slayer has Eternal, and Banjo has rumors of Banjo 3. Dragon Quest also has a ton of titles releasing to explain Erdrick.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sorry, I didn’t mean just Switch. Persona 5 was only a year or two old when Joker was announced, so the Smash Team seems to like recent titles. Even in Smash 4 Bayonetta was only a year or two off from her 2nd title and Ryu released around the same time as Street Fighter V. The only odd one was Cloud, though FF7’s remake was announced about the same time as Cloud in Smash. Corrin also promoted Fates.

Going in to this DLC I feel we can expect the same, Joker is already a newer release character, and the other speculated ones would follow as Steve has Dungeons, Ryu has rumors of a new Ninja Gaiden, Doom Slayer has Eternal, and Banjo has rumors of Banjo 3. Dragon Quest also has a ton of titles releasing to explain Erdrick.

You're still going by that 5chan Leak, which got a ton of things wrong relating to the Persona franchise.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Regardless of whether or not Banjo is in, there is one thing that I will stand by until the end.

THAT WITCH IN STAGE BUILDER WAS NOT A HINT!!!!!

 

[Captain Shades]

You're still going by that 5chan Leak, which got a ton of things wrong relating to the Persona franchise.

To be fair, those were like the only characters talked about, and even then it is not entirely out of the realm of possibility for any of them as they are all pretty reasonable in their own right.

 

[StormC]

There's the possibility that we can be "Grinched" and Banjo, Steve, and/or Erdrick are not playable at all. I would prefer this because the three characters I listed are just too predictable.

Why is something being predictable bad?

Also, nobody credible has claimed Steve.

 

[RileyXY1]

Why is something being predictable bad?

Also, nobody credible has claimed Steve.

To me, I tend to not be as excited if a character was leaked beforehand.

 

[thisjustin2001]

Oh, God. I really hope that Nintendo doesn't add more extremely obscure "fan service" picks that few people outside the Smash/Nintendo bubble would care about.

Even if they end up going with Banjo, I still believe Chief, Steve, hell, maybe even Cuphead would've been better choices. Chief is THE face of Xbox and the face of the franchise that shaped the modern FPS genre into what it is today. Definitely one of the biggest gaming icons currently not in Smash. Steve is the face of the biggest game of all time, and a game that everyone young and old has played at one point or another. Steve is the most iconic gaming character currently not in Smash. He's kinda like Pac-Man in the way that I don't know if his inclusion would be more of an honor to Minecraft, or an honor to Smash Bros.

Banjo hasn't had a game in over a decade, and hasn't had a good game in almost two! Banjo has a very specific audience, which is the people who grew up with/played on an N64 in the nineties. Anyone born this century are literally not gonna care about Banjo in Smash. It seems like a bad decision on Nintendo's part to work with Microsoft just to add a obscure character just to please the 1% (or less) in the vocal minority, instead of adding one of the two biggest characters in all of gaming that everyone could get excited about.

 

[StormC]

To me, I tend to not be as excited if a character was leaked beforehand.

That’s fair. I thought you just meant in general.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Anyone born from the late nineties on are literally not gonna care about Banjo in Smash.

I was born in '99 and my parents got me B-K when I was 3-4, this definitely isn't true.

And B-K is an N64 icon, a lot of people know about them. They're not obscure at all.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I don't know what train of logic is more mistaken.

The 'it doesn't matter who the character is, the shock of a surprising reveal is more important than the character itself' train of thought, or the 'Banjo-Kazooie wasn't one of the most iconic, influential, and overall seminal games of its time' one.

 

[thisjustin2001]

I don't know what train of logic is more mistaken.

The 'it doesn't matter who the character is, the shock of a surprising reveal is more important than the character itself' train of thought, or the 'Banjo-Kazooie wasn't one of the most iconic, influential, and overall seminal games of its time' one.

??? What did Banjo-Kazooie do to influence gaming that Super Mario 64 and the billion other collectathons at the time didn't already do?

 

[StormC]

Oh, God. I really hope that Nintendo doesn't add more extremely obscure "fan service" picks that few people outside the Smash/Nintendo bubble would care about.

Even if they end up going with Banjo, I still believe Chief, Steve, hell, maybe even Cuphead would've been better choices. Chief is THE face of Xbox and the face of the franchise that shaped the modern FPS genre into what it is today. Definitely one of the biggest gaming icons currently not in Smash. Steve is the face of the biggest game of all time, and a game that everyone young and old has played at one point or another. Steve is the most iconic gaming character currently not in Smash. He's kinda like Pac-Man in the way that I don't know if his inclusion would be more of an honor to Minecraft, or an honor to Smash Bros.

Banjo hasn't had a game in over a decade, and hasn't had a good game in almost two! Banjo has a very specific audience, which is the people who grew up with/played on an N64 in the nineties. Anyone born this century are literally not gonna care about Banjo in Smash. It seems like a bad decision on Nintendo's part to work with Microsoft just to add a obscure character just to please the 1% (or less) in the vocal minority, instead of adding one of the two biggest characters in all of gaming that everyone could get excited about.

If Banjo is “extremely obscure” you would have to argue the same with Simon Belmont, who hasn’t had a starring role in an even longer time period and has never been in a game as successful as the original Banjo-Kazooie.

Or a character like Joker, who is from a M-rated PlayStation game that sold well but not super awesomely. Do you think all the kids and grandmas know who he is?

They’re obviously thinking more than just “hitting maximum audience recognizability.” It’s actually good business to please your hardcore fans, since they’re the ones more likely to spread good word about your products and get fence sitters interested. Putting Banjo in Smash is a good way for both Nintendo and Microsoft to soak up tons of positive PR.

 

[Guynamednelson]

The millions of BK sales don't count because people who want characters from games that sold less also want them

 

[thisjustin2001]

If Banjo is “extremely obscure” you would have to argue the same with Simon Belmont, who hasn’t had a starring role in an even longer time period and has never been in a game as successful as the original Banjo-Kazooie.

Or a character like Joker, who is from a M-rated PlayStation game that sold well but not super awesomely. Do you think all the kids and grandmas know who he is?

They’re obviously thinking more than just “hitting maximum audience recognizability.” It’s actually good business to please your hardcore fans, since they’re the ones more likely to spread good word about your products and get fence sitters interested. Putting Banjo in Smash is a good way for both Nintendo and Microsoft to soak up tons of positive PR.

I'm not arguing that the other characters aren't obscure. That's why I said "I hope Nintendo doesn't add MORE obscure characters". I just want a character from a game I actually play. I miss the days of being excited when newcomers were revealed for Smash. I'm getting sick of the niche "fan service" picks like K. Rool, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, Joker, etc. I just don't understand why Nintendo would think it's a good idea to pamper the hardcore fanbase, and rarely throw the rest of the fans a bone...

 

[RouffWestie]

I'm not arguing that the other characters aren't obscure. That's why I said "I hope Nintendo doesn't add MORE obscure characters". I just want a character from a game I actually play. I miss the days of being excited when newcomers were revealed for Smash. I'm getting sick of the niche "fan service" picks like K. Rool, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, Joker, etc. I just don't understand why Nintendo would think it's a good idea to pamper the hardcore fanbase, and rarely throw the rest of the fans a bone...

I think it's more likely that those "niche" characters are just more popular than you think they are.

 

[Ornl]

"Smash tend to have characters from older series. But just old characters wouldn’t make Smash worthy. If there is no new series, then the selection of the characters will be from the old series." - Sakurai, DLC talk
If there is no new Microsoft series, then the selection of the characters will be from Banjo or Halo. But there is Minecraft. IMO.

 

[Captain Shades]

If Banjo is “extremely obscure” you would have to argue the same with Simon Belmont, who hasn’t had a starring role in an even longer time period and has never been in a game as successful as the original Banjo-Kazooie.

Or a character like Joker, who is from a M-rated PlayStation game that sold well but not super awesomely. Do you think all the kids and grandmas know who he is?

They’re obviously thinking more than just “hitting maximum audience recognizability.” It’s actually good business to please your hardcore fans, since they’re the ones more likely to spread good word about your products and get fence sitters interested. Putting Banjo in Smash is a good way for both Nintendo and Microsoft to soak up tons of positive PR.

I don’t think sales are an end all be all though. 3rd parties are more about legacy to gaming as a whole which is something Banjo sort of lacks due to Mario 64 stealing its thunder.

Mega Man, Castlevania and Joker may sell less, but they have set new presidencies for gaming or at least their genres. Mega Man is the definition of the tough as nails platformer for NES. He’s the mascot to Capcom, one of the biggest companies in the gaming industry. Castlevania and Metroid created an entire sub genre, and the style of the Persona series and UI is so well known that Smash copied it and people cosplay it. They are icons that will live on in gaming and become more and more popular over time as many copy them.

 

[Gameboi834]

??? What did Banjo-Kazooie do to influence gaming that Super Mario 64 and the billion other collectathons at the time didn't already do?

Its style of humor, animal transformations, bigger open worlds, remaining in the world after collectibg the main objective, buddy characters...

Also, when Banjo came out the only other collectathon WAS Super Mario 64.

 

[Nquoid]

I'm not arguing that the other characters aren't obscure. That's why I said "I hope Nintendo doesn't add MORE obscure characters". I just want a character from a game I actually play. I miss the days of being excited when newcomers were revealed for Smash. I'm getting sick of the niche "fan service" picks like K. Rool, Dark Samus, the Belmonts, Joker, etc. I just don't understand why Nintendo would think it's a good idea to pamper the hardcore fanbase, and rarely throw the rest of the fans a bone...

Good to know Castlevania, Metroid Prime, Persona 5, Donkey Kong Country and Banjo-Kazooie are "niche "fan service"" picks.

Just because you didn't play a game doesnt make it niche. Those are some of my favourite games of all time, and some of the most critically acclaimed games of all time. We can all want characters we know and love, but throwing around unqualified statements does nothing but annoy people.

 

[StormC]

I don’t think sales are an end all be all though. 3rd parties are more about legacy to gaming as a whole which is something Banjo sort of lacks due to Mario 64 stealing its thunder.

Mega Man, Castlevania and Joker may sell less, but they have set new presidencies for gaming or at least their genres. Mega Man is the definition of the tough as nails platformer for NES. He’s the mascot to Capcom, one of the biggest companies in the gaming industry. Castlevania and Metroid created an entire sub genre, and the style of the Persona series and UI is so well known that Smash copied it and people cosplay it. They are icons that will live on in gaming and become more and more popular over time as many copy them.

Persona’s menus aren’t THAT iconic. And Simon’s games aren’t even the one in the Metroidvania style. But if you wanna talk legacy...

-The term “collectathon” originated from the Rare N64 games.
-A spiritual successor by old Rare staff broke records for how fast a project gets funded on Kickstarter.
-The Banjo “mumble speak” is instantly recognizable to anyone who is plugged into gamer culture.
-They’re still releasing new Banjo merch 20 years after his heyday.
-Banjo is probably the most requested character of the last 20 years of Smash that still isn’t in. Check any social media post by Nintendo about Smash and it’s flooded with Banjo.

This reeks of goalpost moving.