Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ramen Tengoku]

A boss that doubles as an Assist Trophy is the only bit of significant content that Monster Hunter has in Smash right now, which easily leaves the door open for a playable character.

actually, there's music too, and it's in Others section.

Which Imo does kinda bring up a slight issue if MH were to upgrade to a pass slot with a character, stage and music, meaning those tracks may have to be moved from Others to Monster Hunter,

which while it does seem like nothing at at first, it does technically mean you're removing content from the game assuming those tracks will no longer be selectable on stages like Find Mii, Living Room, or Pictochat

And this ain't an issue solely regulated to MH either, I'd say this also hurts series like Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, Style Savvy, or any other series with music in the Others section.

idk, maybe it's just me

 

[PhantomShab]

He also has... to say the least very questionable moral beliefs...

Which have nothing to do with his music and how hard it is to get high quality versions of it from him so why even bother bringing it up?

 

[AceAttorney9000]

actually, there's music too, and it's in Others section.

Which Imo does kinda bring up a slight issue if MH were to upgrade to a pass slot with a character and stage and music, meaning those tracks may have to be moved from Others to Monster Hunter,

which while it does seem like nothing at at first, it does technically mean you're removing content from the game assuming those tracks will no longer be selectable on stages like Find Mii, Living Room, or Pictochat

And this ain't an issue solely regulated to MH either, I'd say this also hurts series like Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, or any other series with music in the Others section.

idk, maybe it's just me

Yes, Monster Hunter does indeed have music in Smash... a grand total of two songs.

Said songs being in the Others section (along with music from other series like Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun) honestly seems like a rather minor issue. If the developers want to put characters from these series into Smash, I doubt they're gonna let music being in certain categories stop them.

 

[MooMew64]

actually, there's music too, and it's in Others section.

Which Imo does kinda bring up a slight issue if MH were to upgrade to a pass slot with a character and stage and music, meaning those tracks may have to be moved from Others to Monster Hunter,

which while it does seem like nothing at at first, it does technically mean you're removing content from the game assuming those tracks will no longer be selectable on stages like Find Mii, Living Room, or Pictochat

And this ain't an issue solely regulated to MH either, I'd say this also hurts series like Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, or any other series with music in the Others section.

idk, maybe it's just me

It faces the same problems ATs do, IMO. There's a lot that would need to be reworked to make it happen and fit properly.

Besides, if we're getting some more Capcom content, it's more than likely gonna be DmC. I personally would want Ace Attorney, but that series is getting kind of neglected right now (at least in the west) so my thoughts are Capcom and Nintendo will go with Dante: He's been a big request since Bayonetta and has only gotten more popular since Joker and Capcom is pushing DmC pretty hard right now.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yes, Monster Hunter does indeed have music in Smash... a grand total of two songs.

Said songs being in the Others section (along with music from other series like Rhythm Heaven and Golden Sun) honestly seems like a rather minor issue. If the developers want to put characters from these series into Smash, I doubt they're gonna let music being in certain categories stop them.

To be fair, one MH song is now set as a default song on Find Mii, while no song from a demanded Nintendo series is a default on any misc. song stage.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

Besides, if we're getting some more Capcom content, it's more than likely gonna be DmC. I personally would want Ace Attorney, but that series is getting kind of neglected right now (at least in the west) so my thoughts are Capcom and Nintendo will go with Dante: He's been a big request since Bayonetta and has only gotten more popular since Joker and Capcom is pushing DmC pretty hard right now.

... I mean, the Mega Man series was also being neglected during the early 2010s (not just in the west, but in general), yet he still made it into Smash 4.

 

[PhantomShab]

God a Monster Hunter would be perfect just for the music selection that they could come with.

 

[SKX31]

I think it mostly just depends on what Square wants. Chances are they only wanted one Final Fantasy character in smash, which is why they went with Cloud. (The most well known and wanted one, which surprised them because they thought people would want a more relevant one). I think like our only possible option left from FF at least is Sephiroth Noctis or maybe a Moogle or Black Mage lol. Personal pick from Square would be Crono, sadly that series is dead in the ground T-T

Source Gaming's got ya covered:

Sakurai: Well, I was sure you’d be busy, and I thought you wouldn’t have the time to discuss it with me.

Nomura: It was an opportunity for Cloud to appear in Smash, how could I turn it down?

Sakurai: This isn’t an exact number, but among the requests for a Final Fantasy character to appear in Smash, around ¼ to ⅓ of the requests we got from fans were for Cloud. [TN1] I really wanted to answer the desires of those fans, and even though I thought it would be impossible, I reached out anyway, just to try.

Nomura: When we first talked, I asked “are you sure you’re okay with Cloud?” He’s not a character from a new game, after all.

Sakurai: But on the other hand, if you think about who to add from Final Fantasy, it’s hard to come up with a choice that’s not Cloud. We could have used Terra or Bartz, protagonists in their own right, but I feel like there would be some people who wouldn’t know who those characters are.

Nomura: There are characters like Strago too.

Sakurai: Characters like Fusuya might be good as well.

Nomura: The fact that you focus on characters like that is…(laughs)

So yeah, Sakurai was behind Clod.

One important thing is that he talked to Nomura for Cloud and Horii for Hero. If he continues with the precendence it bodes well for 2B since he seems close to Yoko Taro.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I don't see how anyone can say this with a straight face. Are you seriously so confident that characters deemed not worthy of being one of the final five characters added to Ultimate, are suddenly hard locks for the additional six characters they are adding? The odds are that Sakurai/Nintendo never choose to put those characters in Smash.

I mean, I don't agree with calling either of them hard locks either, but...

Can we not do 2 years of people attempting to use the whole "the Fighter's Pass was going to be the final five in Ultimate" and attempting to draw conclusions from that? The Fighter's Pass was just the five that they picked at the time of the pass and there's no real evidence to indicate that Smash DLC was going to definitively end at Byleth. Byleth was just the end of what was originally planned before additional characters were fully decided upon. Even the most pessimistically minded of us predicted an additional character at least and we have some precedent about Nintendo making more DLC than planned with Corrin being a character that was added a significantly later date than other fighters in the Smash 4 DLC cycle.

You make the best decisions you can with the resources you have available. That's really what the Fighter's Pass leads us to conclude. They finally had the opportunity to include characters such as Hero and Banjo & Kazooie after years, SNK was completely willing to play ball and another one of Sakurai's arguably most wanted personal picks, etc. The absence of additional characters doesn't come close to telling us that "odds are Sakurai/Nintendo never choose to put those characters in Smash." Hell, Crash's big return has just been gaining steady momentum and he became a popular Smash pick in the leadup to Ultimate's release when other DLC was already being negotiated and developed, so if anything he seems to be in a better position than he would have been deciding the original Fighter's Pass to be honest.

It actually has more to do with the fact a lot of Square's stuff isn't exclusively owned by just them. FF7's music and character art is owned by a buuuuuuunch of different people, so rather than SE being stingy, it's moreso that Sakurai and SE both probably reached the unfortunate conclusion that it just wasn't worth all the money and negotiation time to get every party involved just for some music and Spirit artwork.

Dragon Quests' music is...a topic I'm not quite sure on, so I won't comment on it, actually. I dunno what happened with that one.

Sugiyama won't even let Dragon Quest games themselves release with the symphonic soundtrack the vast majority of the time, so the fact that we got MIDIs isn't really surprising considering he's one of the most prolific composers in Japan that is famously stingy with the rights and usage of his music (hence no remixes and no symphonic versions) and he also belongs to a Composer's organization that gives him considerable power in any negotiations where his music is involved. And they still managed to walk away with 8 songs, so I call that an indication of just how much Square Enix is personally willing to play ball personally. That's a huge win considering the circumstances haha.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm still of the opinion Monster Hunter is out of the running as I think if he/she were to be in they would had been announced alongside Rathalos and besides Rathalos is the face and icon of the series.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I just want a mode where I can fight the specific bosses damn it, I'd love to actually practice against them instead of being surprised and destroyed when I see Dracula for like the third time ever in my Classic Mode runs

 

[Guybrush20X6]

A boss that doubles as an Assist Trophy is the only bit of significant content that Monster Hunter has in Smash right now, which easily leaves the door open for a playable character.

Monster Hunter is kind of in the same position that Animal Crossing was in Brawl in that there's almost enough content for it to be it's own proper universe but it lacks the big thing. (Things if you don't count the arena you fight Rathalos in as it's own stage)

 

[Rikarte]

actually, there's music too, and it's in Others section.

Which Imo does kinda bring up a slight issue if MH were to upgrade to a pass slot with a character, stage and music, meaning those tracks may have to be moved from Others to Monster Hunter,

which while it does seem like nothing at at first, it does technically mean you're removing content from the game assuming those tracks will no longer be selectable on stages like Find Mii, Living Room, or Pictochat

And this ain't an issue solely regulated to MH either, I'd say this also hurts series like Rhythm Heaven, Golden Sun, Style Savvy, or any other series with music in the Others section.

idk, maybe it's just me

My friend keeps bringing this up all the time too when we talk about potential Capcom characters but I honestly don't see the problem. Just put the two songs we have in both, the Monster Hunter and Other category and you're done. Same for other already represented franchises that don't have a fighter.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Square-Enix is kinda like Capcom. There are just too many characters to choose from.

After FF and DQ, would be cool if we got Sora (does he count?) and Crono, (to even out Nomura and Toriyama), and finish it off with Lara Croft.

Realistically though, Sora and Lara are more likely. Geno and Crono are a bit more on the pipe dream spectrum... but would be cool to have.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I think it mostly just depends on what Square wants. Chances are they only wanted one Final Fantasy character in smash, which is why they went with Cloud. (The most well known and wanted one, which surprised them because they thought people would want a more relevant one). I think like our only possible option left from FF at least is Sephiroth Noctis or maybe a Moogle or Black Mage lol. Personal pick from Square would be Crono, sadly that series is dead in the ground T-T

The obvious choice is Neku.

 

[MooMew64]

... I mean, the Mega Man series was also being neglected during the early 2010s (not just in the west, but in general), yet he still made it into Smash 4.

That was mainly due to unfortunate circumstances. AA is just...kind of being recycled via the trilogy right now for no other reason I can think of than just Capcom not really caring about it.

Plus, Mega Man is kind of a mascot for them, so I'd say that helped considerably.

 

[Guynamednelson]

My friend keeps bringing this up all the time too when we talk about potential Capcom characters but I honestly don't see the problem. Just put the two songs we have in both, the Monster Hunter and Other category and you're done. Same for other already represented franchises that don't have a fighter.

I say let every misc. song that used to be playable on a stage from a series with a fighter be playable on those stages.

Also I'm surprised they'd consider G&W songs worthy of not being miscellaneous but not Duck Hunt.

 

[?????????????]

I'm pretty sure the original trilogy keeps outselling any AA sequels.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Tfw hardly anyone mentions Neku when bringing up Square reps

 

[AceAttorney9000]

That was mainly due to unfortunate circumstances. AA is just...kind of being recycled via the trilogy right now for no other reason I can think of than just Capcom not really caring about it.

Plus, Mega Man is kind of a mascot for them, so I'd say that helped considerably.

I don't think it's because Capcom doesn't care. At least, it certainly hasn't been long enough between releases to consider that a possibility. The games have been coming out pretty regularly since Apollo Justice back in 2008. They probably just "count" the HD Trilogy among those releases, since both years it was ported to non-mobile systems (3DS in 2014, Switch and other systems in 2019) were years without a new game.

I wouldn't be surprised if that Direct we're expecting soon has an announcement for the next mainline Ace Attorney game.

 

[MooMew64]

I don't think it's because Capcom doesn't care. At least, it certainly hasn't been long enough between releases to consider that a possibility. The games have been coming out pretty regularly since Apollo Justice back in 2008. They probably just "count" the HD Trilogy among those releases, since both years it was ported to non-mobile systems (3DS in 2014, Switch and other systems in 2019) were years without a new game.

I wouldn't be surprised if that Direct we're expecting soon has an announcement for the next mainline Ace Attorney game.

I mean, not getting two of those 3DS releases certainly doesn't help. Not to mention Miles Edgeworth 2 still not coming over in any way.

Capcom is just really inconsistent with the series with the western fans, which is part of what makes me doubt Phoenix in Smash. I'd love to be wrong, but right now, I just feel there's a ton of hurdles to overcome, the biggest being Capcom and Nintendo choosing him over Dante, who has huge hype factor and marketability right now.

 

[Sestetz]

I mean, not getting two of those 3DS releases certainly doesn't help. Not to mention Miles Edgeworth 2 still not coming over in any way.

Capcom is just really inconsistent with the series with the western fans, which is part of what makes me doubt Phoenix in Smash. I'd love to be wrong, but right now, I just feel there's a ton of hurdles to overcome, the biggest being Capcom and Nintendo choosing him over Dante, who has huge hype factor and marketability right now.

I would love Phoenix as much as the next guy, but he has so much other competition with other capcom characters that it's hard to see it. A mii costume though? Yeah, we using that

 

[?????????????]

Man, I’d love Phoenix Wright. One of my favorite video game series of all time. Practically a full-fledged Nintendo character. Great music.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I too prefer Phoenix Wright. Him or Amaterasu but I would not mind Dante one bit as he's still a cool character and would still come with an fun moveset.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Monster Hunter feels like it got two major strikes against having a playable character. Monster Hunter has the most content of any third party added to Smash, but without a playable character for one. A Boss with his own section of World of Light that also doubles as an Assist Trophy with a Spirit and two music tracks with a 2 previous Mii Costumes that have a high chance of coming back eventually? That's a ton of content for a third party franchise that doesn't have a playable fighter.

Then Byleth casually came in and took the most obvious Monster Hunter gimmicks with weapon switching, right down to the fact that Byleth's relics are also made of bone like Monster Hunter weapons could easily be.

I usually don't like to fully rule series out like that, but Monster Hunter feels like one of the more definitive franchises that Sakurai has decided on having a different role than playable fighter. Not that I would mind a Monster Hunter, but I don't expect it.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Which have nothing to do with his music and how hard it is to get high quality versions of it from him so why even bother bringing it up?

When the topic of DQ is brought up, people seem to think they are obligated to push in the composers beliefs even if its not the main topic

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I would love Phoenix as much as the next guy, but he has so much other competition with other capcom characters that it's hard to see it. A mii costume though? Yeah, we using that

The biggest competitors among other Capcom characters to Phoenix Wright would be a Resident Evil character and Dante. The former series ended up getting Spirit Board-ed, with the victims being main characters that people thought would make the cut (Chris, Leon, and Jill). The latter is still likely, though I ultimately still think Wright has more going for him than Dante does (big Nintendo relationship to the point of being an "honorary" Nintendo character, decently popular franchise, and even Sakurai acknowledging the series in a Famitsu column).

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Something I wouldn't mind is more Square spirits in general, even if it did likely deconfirm characters. It would be nice something like Trials of Mana remake got a spirit event around the time of its release for example.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I honestly can’t decide between Phoenix or Dante - both have their own unique appeals and in an ideal world I’d have both

Something I wouldn't mind is more Square spirits in general, even if it did likely deconfirm characters. It would be nice something like Trials of Mana remake got a spirit event around the time of its release for example.

I’d be content with a Star Ocean spirit event myself. Star Ocean is one of my favorite underrated JRPG series and since First Departure R came out not long ago, they can use Spirits of Roddick, Millie, Ronyx and Ilia for example

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't know. Just feels like we're heading toward a scenario where people spent four years saying Geno is almost guaranteed only to look back in confusion when he doesn't get added.

And if he's not coming, I wish they'd just hurry up and rerelease his costume so people can stop having false hope.

Which have nothing to do with his music and how hard it is to get high quality versions of it from him so why even bother bringing it up?

Because, when you're kind of a monster, the fact that you're kind of a monster should always be brought up whenever people talk about you. That's the price of being kind of a monster.

I just want a mode where I can fight the specific bosses damn it, I'd love to actually practice against them instead of being surprised and destroyed when I see Dracula for like the third time ever in my Classic Mode runs

The game should absolutely have a boss rush mode in the style of the ones in the Kirby games.

And also...more bosses to fill it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

As I remember someone telling me. Wright ended up getting more votes on the poll here on this thread than Dante did.

Maybe Wright is more possible they we might realize...

 

[osby]

As I remember someone telling me. Wright ended up getting more votes on the poll here on this thread than Dante did.

Maybe Wright is more possible they we might realize...

What this thread has anything to do with Nintendo's character choices?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What this thread has anything to do with Nintendo's character choices?

Yes but getting more votes could indicate what character is more wanted as a whole from the entire fanbase.

 

[cosmicB]

This feels like an exaggeration as FE fans were literally divided between classic and modern fans when 3H managed to make them unite in their love for the franchise

Fights over Edelgard suck and are annoying, but I'd actually say that Fates was easily the low-point of Fire Emblem fan unity. It seemed like everyone had a different view of what Fire Emblem should be. Should the characters be more grounded than in Fates/Awakening, or are the Awakening and Fates cast just more interesting to watch? Should Fire Emblem's gameplay be linear to emphasize tighter map design and a universal experience, or should it be open-ended and somewhat random to ensure no playthrough is the same? Should the difficulty be high to ensure that strong strategy stays at the centre of the game, or should it be lower so a variety of playstyles can be accounted for?

Honestly, it's kinda a miracle Three Houses was able to bind both sides of the fanbase. I will gladly take debates over a character's morality than more fights about anime in Fire Emblem.

I guess I should say in my own experience. There were a lot of disagreements in the past, but I never saw it escalate to straight up personal attacks over it.

I'm pretty sure Soleil has only appeared in Fates

That's a completely different kind of controversy, one that I only saw gain traction in a few places. But fair enough, she's definitely up there.

I don't think Edelgard is all that controversial. She's clearly a villain, and in her own route, you just see her point of view. Take the word villain as broadly as you'd like, but easily summarised, she's one. She is one with revolutionary ideals yes, but so where the likes of Ashnard for example.

This is what I'm talking about. I 100% agree with you, but I've had no less than 7 people call me an awful person full of white privilege (I don't think I'd even be considered white by the primary hate groups out there these days) for saying Edelgard is a villain. 3 of them genuinely told me to reexamine my life and morals when I compared her to Walhart.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

imagine if they put Sticks the Badger in Smash as a fighter?

 

[osby]

Yes but getting more votes could indicate what character is more wanted as a whole from the entire fanbase.

Okay, but this doesn't really mean much in regards to who actually gets in.

Aside from Banjo, we didn't get any forum darlings as DLC.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Yes but getting more votes could indicate what character is more wanted as a whole from the entire fanbase.

I think it's kind of obvious that the character who's almost exclusive to Nintendo did better on the ballot than the character that didn't have a game on Nintendo until last year.

 

[Schnee117]

As I remember someone telling me. Wright ended up getting more votes on the poll here on this thread than Dante did.

Maybe Wright is more possible they we might realize...

Yes but getting more votes could indicate what character is more wanted as a whole from the entire fanbase.

So let me get this straight.
You're using a poll from this thread only and saying that because Phoenix got more votes he's more likely?
And not only that, but said poll is an indicator for the entire fanbase?

 

[SNEKeater]

Spoiler

This especially just adds even more reason for me to be excited about the prospect. The Chozo lore is by far my favorite part of Metroid’s story, and it’s something I’ve been dying to see be explored in more ways than visiting old deserted ruins. There’s so much potential for them to do all sorts of cool stuff with it, or they could even just go completely crazy and have Samus be stuck in a sort of three way tug of war between these new Chozo, the Federation and the Space Pirates, if nothing else it would at least solve SR’s issue with lacking enemy variety.

Either way I’m already preparing my banners and flags to support that random Chozo general for Smash.

Spoiler: Metroid 5?

Yeah. That secret ending at the end of Samus Returns blew my mind lol
Never thought about the idea of having a Chozo rogue faction and after Samus Returns I'm totally onboard with that. Don't know what they will do if we ever get a sequel to Fusion, which honestly I think it's a matter of time, but if Mercury Steam is again working on a new Metroid game I think it's fair to expect some Chozo presence in the next game.
As for the timeline, maybe it would be better to keep Prime games and the 2D titles separated in that regard, even if that leads to generate some inconsistencies.

As I was saying, a sequel to Fusion where Samus has to deal with the Chozo and the Federation sounds very promising. In that case I think the game would probably have a more similar structure to Fusion than Super if they want to present a strong story, a thing that probably will divide some fans. Luckily not me, I love Super and Fusion lmao
I don't think Samus would be dealing with Space Pirates. While they could be there, of course, I think that having that Chozo faction and the Federation as enemies is enough.

For Metroid 5 I'm expecting a relatively safe Metroid game, nothing super revolutionary, it will have some new features and gimmicks but it won't shake the Metroid formula. Which is fine by me, after so many years without a new 2D Metroid game. I'm more curious about the art and the visuals they will choose for the game, tho.
About Prime 4, I have a feel that the game will bring a lot of new things for the franchise as Breath of the Wild did for Zelda.

 

[Dinoman96]

Monster Hunter feels like it got two major strikes against having a playable character. Monster Hunter has the most content of any third party added to Smash, but without a playable character for one. A Boss with his own section of World of Light that also doubles as an Assist Trophy with a Spirit and two music tracks with a 2 previous Mii Costumes that have a high chance of coming back eventually? That's a ton of content for a third party franchise that doesn't have a playable fighter.

Then Byleth casually came in and took the most obvious Monster Hunter gimmicks with weapon switching, right down to the fact that Byleth's relics are also made of bone like Monster Hunter weapons could easily be.

I usually don't like to fully rule series out like that, but Monster Hunter feels like one of the more definitive franchises that Sakurai has decided on having a different role than playable fighter. Not that I would mind a Monster Hunter, but I don't expect it.

Yes. I believe if Sakurai wanted to bring in a playable MH fighter, he would of done so when he worked with Capcom to bring in all the extra MH stuff into the base game, or for the first Fighters Pass at the very latest.