Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Potato_]

I honestly think that the whole "iconic" argument is overblown and ultimately doesn't matter. Smash in recent years has shown that a game's position in gaming history isn't as important as it once was. Many characters get added just because they're popular in the now, we literally just had one with Joker. I'm a huge Persona fan, but I think most would agree Joker isn't iconic.

On top of this, I don't think the Nintendo higher ups/Sakurai/whoever you believe chose the dlc candidates at this point were concerned with the question of "is this character iconic enough?" I'd bet they were more concerned with "will this make us more money than other candidates" and "is it realistically possible to get the rights to them?"

Popularity is king at the end of the day, and as we all know Minecraft is ridiculous in that regard. Even if Steve isn't famous by name, you'd better believe people would recognize him as "the Minecraft guy". Steve would sell like hotcakes.

One thing I wanted to say too: The only reason Minecraft has gained this much traction as a rumor is due to Hitagi outright stating he heard Steve was in and Vergeben saying he heard about a Minecraft boss character. I think both have their merits (and definitely their downsides), but it's important to note that besides those two, there's been nothing else. I only say this because I think people get swept up in the Minecraft craze and ignore a bunch of other characters that have just as much of a shot (Most obvious being Chief).

I really think Erdrick is the only character that should be spoken about with such certainty, because of the multiple people in the know talking about him and the little hints that keep popping up.

 

[BlueMonk]

Understandable.

For me, I think people just gotta understand there's more than the 2 options for Microsoft getting a character. I didn't mention Master Chief yet. Who would fight off the complaints of irrelevancy and lack of popularity Steve people have with Banjo and the complaints of Steve being ugly and lacking a character that the Banjo people have. Then it could go back to simply preferring one over the other.

I sure as hell don't like Steve, but I get why, from a finanical standpoint Nintendo would want him in, and Minecraft's already got content on Nintendo systems. Banjo I have no nostalgia for, since I grew up with that ***** Spyro. But I get the appeal of him and I wouldn't be opposed to it at all.

Fulgore's ****ing sick and is a better choice. Especially in the music department.

And that's IF we get a Microsoft character, chances are we ain't getting **** from them.

I'm also skeptical of a Microsoft character. The thing that makes me doubt Master Chief is how unwilling Microsoft seems to be when it comes to using him in crossovers. I think the closest he's gotten to being in a crossover is one of the DoA games which had an OC Spartan as a guest character.

 

[Knight Dude]

All I'm saying is if it is Master Chief, he'll finally get to throw hands with Samus.

One step closer to Card Saga Wars. (Now if we add MMX on top of OG Mega Man we're officially them Gun Boyz.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

All I'm saying is if it is Master Chief, he'll finally get to throw hands with Samus.

One step closer to Card Saga Wars. (Now if we add MMX on top of OG Mega Man we're officially them Gun Boyz.)

Isn't Card Saga Wars basically a spin-off of the MUGEN engine? I don't know exactly how it was made.

I just know Brian(Quest 64) is an Assist Trophy, and that makes me happy. He's my big obscure 3rd party guy~

 

[Idon]

Isn't Card Saga Wars basically a spin-off of the MUGEN engine? I don't know exactly how it was made.

I just know Brian(Quest 64) is an Assist Trophy, and that makes me happy. He's my big obscure 3rd party guy~

You can do a lotta stuff with MUGEN. For another high quality example, look at hyper dragon ball Z

 

[Deathcarter]

Frankly, the big thing going against Steve is that he's a blockly ************ incapable of bending his limbs and has a very limited repertoire of animations. And despite all the usual "Sakurai is a genius, of course he'd be able to make Steve work" counterpoints, it doesn't change the fact that Sakurai is still a perfectionist who prides himself on how well the characters "dance" who has repeatedly remarked on how he doesn't always immediately figure out how to make certain unorthodox characters work the first time around even if he does end up figuring it out in the future.

Not saying Steve will never get in, but there's a very serious possibility that his time could come a lot later than a lot of his fans would be happy with much like what happened with Ridley and Villager.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You can do a lotta stuff with MUGEN. For another high quality example, look at hyper dragon ball Z

Ah, nice.

...Now if only I could program using it. Might be a decent engine for my fighting game ideas. Or something to use for a more silly Quest 64-based fighting game. At the very least palette swaps is an easy thing to use, I guess? It's a literal thing among the game(with up to 3 versions overall of the same core sprite).

One user I helped a bit with idea is a Lip fan. He gave up on it, probably cause programming a fighting character is far harder than people think. Even Fighter Maker is a really difficult program to use. Even stuff like Zelda Classic didn't feel nearly as difficult to understand, imo.

 

[Knight Dude]

How would you guys feel about Jimmy and Bimmy Billy from Double Dragon being playable?

There's no real rumors of them being added at all or anything, but their an option for an old-school character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How would you guys feel about Jimmy and Bimmy Billy from Double Dragon being playable?

There's no real rumors of them being added at all or anything, but their an option for an old-school character.

But it wouldn't come with the amazing cartoon theme. >.>

Still, they're cool characters. Still gotta have a spirit of Shadow Master, one of the best designs, imo.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

How would you guys feel about Jimmy and Bimmy Billy from Double Dragon being playable?

There's no real rumors of them being added at all or anything, but their an option for an old-school character.

Cool with it, but I still think it'd be best if the Battletoads come alongside them.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Something I wanted to bring up amongst all this Steve discussion is that being in a popular game doesn't necessarily make a character popular. Take, for example, GTA V. GTA V is the third best selling video game, behind Tetris and Minecraft. Yet, most people who haven't played GTA V would not be able to name or recognize the main character. I think it's fair to say that most people can at least identify Steve as the player character in Minecraft even if they have not played it. I think that speaks to the recognizability of Steve's character design on it's own.

Agreed

 

[Captain Shades]

Yo guys... I just found some leaked music from the E3 presentation

 

[Nquoid]

Sorry I forgot to touch on this point...

You are correct in Avatar, but to counter this point, I think time should also be a factor. Avatar came and went in pretty much the span of a year. It was hyped up, but didn’t have any lasting power, so even though it was the highest selling movie of all time, it is justifiable to pick Marvel or Star Wars over it. As for Minecraft, it has been around for 10 years...and it still ranks in an average player base within the millions. Minecraft has proven to be able to keep up the momentum and become a classic in gaming history. For a while Fortnite was projected to be bigger than MC, but it’s bubble bursted. So far in the 10 years of MC, the bubble has yet to burst in any drastic way which is why I believe Avatar to be a bit of a bad comparison.

Apart from the 4 sequels that are in development where it'll be alternating with Star Wars at Christmas, the Cirque du Soleil stage show that's been travelling the world and the entire section of Animal Kingdom in Disney that's been turned over to it. Avatar isn't dead, but is more akin to a great single player experience with a short campaign than the depth and long lasting appeal of Minecraft, so in that case it was a bad comparison.

But I do think Avatar is visually and aesthetically unique and recognisable in a similar way to Minecract. You could ask anyone one the street what a Na'vi was and they'd be able to tell you "oh that's a thing from Avatar", just like a lot of people could with Steve.

And with that I'm done arguing about Steve for now. I love that people have become so attached to him and his prospects, even if I die a little inside when people dismiss Banjo because of Minecraft's ubiquity.

So I'll pose a question; if we assume all the DLC newcomers are all third party, what are the four most likely companies to be chosen for representation. Not characters, just studios.

 

[Izanagi97]

Any feel like we're thinking small with Microsoft Characters? I'm somewhat team Banjo, I'm alright with Master Chief (I think Arbiter would fit better since his main weapon is a melee weapon), and I don't want Steve, but still. I don't think I've seen mention of a Killer Instinct Character

 

[Knight Dude]

Apart from the 4 sequels that are in development where it'll be alternating with Star Wars at Christmas, the Cirque du Soleil stage show that's been travelling the world and the entire section of Animal Kingdom in Disney that's been turned over to it. Avatar isn't dead, but is more akin to a great single player experience with a short campaign than the depth and long lasting appeal of Minecraft, so in that case it was a bad comparison.

But I do think Avatar is visually and aesthetically unique and recognisable in a similar way to Minecract. You could ask anyone one the street what a Na'vi was and they'd be able to tell you "oh that's a thing from Avatar", just like a lot of people could with Steve.

And with that I'm done arguing about Steve for now. I love that people have become so attached to him and his prospects, even if I die a little inside when people dismiss Banjo because of Minecraft's ubiquity.

So I'll pose a question; if we assume all the DLC newcomers are all third party, what are the four most likely companies to be chosen for representation. Not characters, just studios.

Microsoft and Square Enix if the rumors are to be believed. Capcom I still think has a shot because of just how many IPs they have that'd make for good Smash content. The forth is hard to say, Ubisoft's a big studio that's worked with Nintendo. And they have some fairly big series with Assassin's Creed and Rayman.

SNK's got a lot of IPs to use to, so by volume I'd say maybe them too.

Any feel like we're thinking small with Microsoft Characters? I'm somewhat team Banjo, I'm alright with Master Chief (I think Arbiter would fit better since his main weapon is a melee weapon), and I don't want Steve, but still. I don't think I've seen mention of a Killer Instinct Character

I've mentioned Fulgore a fair bit. Every time the Steve vs Banjo thing pops up I remind everyone Fulgore's for the True Man's World.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Everyone is basically saying we will get Steve or Banjo-Kazooie at this point but what if we get no Microsoft character at all?

 

[Wunderwaft]

Everyone is basically saying we will get Steve or Banjo-Kazooie at this point but what if we get no Microsoft character at all?

That's a possibility as well, one that I've had on the back of my head for a while. There's no guarantee that any company will get a DLC character but the best we can do is hope and predict who might get in.

 

[Door Key Pig]

That's a possibility as well, one that I've had on the back of my head for a while. There's no guarantee that any company will get a DLC character but the best we can do is hope and predict who might get in.

Then everyone gets salty as Banjo still misses their chance...

 

[Nquoid]

Microsoft and Square Enix if the rumors are to be believed. Capcom I still think has a shot because of just how many IPs they have that'd make for good Smash content. The forth is hard to say, Ubisoft's a big studio that's worked with Nintendo. And they have some fairly big series with Assassin's Creed and Rayman.

SNK's got a lot of IPs to use to, so by volume I'd say maybe them too.

I'm not so sure on Capcom, just because they already have 3 characters so Sega, Capcom and Konami it's all quite balanced.

If I put money on it, it'd be some combination of Square Enix, Koei Tecmo, Bandai Namco, Ubisoft and Microsoft. Mostly because the first four already have content in the game, which means theres already a fruitful relationship there, so presumably its easy enough to take that to the next level.

 

[thisjustin2001]

Steve is only recognizable because of his game's distinctive art style. You put his design in another style and it's literally a guy in a cyan t-shirt. This isn't a knock on him, but it makes me lean more into generic avatar status. Look at Creepers or Endermen, those are distinctive designs.

That's like saying "Villager is only recognizable because of his art style. Take that away, and he's just a kid with a bowl cut, red shirt and gray shorts!". Sorry, I don't think this is a very good argument on a characters icon status.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I'm not so sure on Capcom, just because they already have 3 characters so Sega, Capcom and Konami it's all quite balanced.

If I put money on it, it'd be some combination of Square Enix, Koei Tecmo, Bandai Namco, Ubisoft and Microsoft. Mostly because the first four already have content in the game, which means theres already a fruitful relationship there, so presumably its easy enough to take that to the next level.

Do you renember when King K. Rool was announced? Does this mean Banjo-Kazooie will be in Smash?
Renember when Microsoft bought Rare and the lastest Donkey Kong games (Returns and Tropical Freeze), don't features King K. Rool?
I may understimated Sakurai and his staff, though asking permission for Microsoft for characters would sound like "IMPOSSIBLE".

The same applies for the Castlevania, since we have Bloodstained (the indie game) to be a Castlevania spiritual successor. In fact, we don't have a Castlevania game in 8 years (the lastest Castlevania game was Harmony of Despair).

Sakurai is a Pandora's box: What surprises awaits for the DLC fighters?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

That's a possibility as well, one that I've had on the back of my head for a while. There's no guarantee that any company will get a DLC character but the best we can do is hope and predict who might get in.

I think if it turns out that Microsoft and Square-Enix both don't have a fighter in the Season Pass, it will turn the whole Smash speculation community upside down and confused.

Do you renember when King K. Rool was announced? Does this mean Banjo-Kazooie will be in Smash?
Renember when Microsoft bought Rare and the lastest Donkey Kong games (Returns and Tropical Freeze), don't features King K. Rool?
I may understimated Sakurai and his staff, though asking permission for Microsoft for characters would sound like "IMPOSSIBLE".

The same applies for the Castlevania, since we have Bloodstained (the indie game) to be a Castlevania spiritual successor. In fact, we don't have a Castlevania game in 8 years (the lastest Castlevania game was Harmony of Despair).

Sakurai is a Pandora's box: What surprises awaits for the DLC fighters?

K. Rool and all the Kremlings are 100% percent owned by Nintendo not Rare/Microsoft. Stop spreading misinformation.

 

[RileyXY1]

K. Rool and all the Kremlings are 100% percent owned by Nintendo not Rare/Microsoft. Stop spreading misinformation.

You're right. When Microsoft bought Rare Nintendo gained full ownership of all DKC characters. If this was not the case then not only would King K. Rool not be playable, but also Diddy Kong as well, because Rare created him too.

 

[Roberto zampari]

K. Rool and all the Kremlings are 100% percent owned by Nintendo not Rare/Microsoft. Stop spreading misinformation.

What about Banjo-Kazooie? Owned by Nintendo?
Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[RileyXY1]

What about Banjo-Kazooie? Owned by Nintendo?
Correct me if i'm wrong.

No. Rare fully owns Banjo & Kazooie because they created the franchise themselves, with no characters originally created by Nintendo.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

What about Banjo-Kazooie? Owned by Nintendo?
Correct me if i'm wrong.

Banjo & Kazooie are owned by Rare/Microsoft, but Nintendo owns all the DKC characters including K. Rool and the Kremlings. Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen K. Rool in all of those DK spin offs after the buyout and as a trophy in every Smash game.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not only that, Rare developed a BK game (Nuts and Bolts) after the Microsoft buyout.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

So I'll pose a question; if we assume all the DLC newcomers are all third party, what are the four most likely companies to be chosen for representation. Not characters, just studios.

SNK, Microsoft, Ubisoft and Square Enix

 

[Roberto zampari]

Not only that, Rare developed a BK game (Nuts and Bolts) after the Microsoft buyout.

If this was true, why the game become horrible?

Banjo & Kazooie are owned by Rare/Microsoft, but Nintendo owns all the DKC characters including K. Rool and the Kremlings. Otherwise, you wouldn't have seen K. Rool in all of those DK spin offs after the buyout and as a trophy in every Smash game.

Then why Nintendo doesn't included King K. Rool in the last DKC games?

 

[RileyXY1]

Then why Nintendo doesn't included King K. Rool in the last DKC games?

Retro Studios actually created the new DKC games, and I believed that they wanted to use their own villains.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

If this was true, why the game become horrible?


Then why Nintendo doesn't included King K. Rool in the last DKC games?

Read this https://smashboards.com/threads/news-how-fans-brought-back-k-rool.457451/ you'll have a deeper understanding after reading this.

 

[Nquoid]

Probably the clearest example of what ended up where after Rare got bought was with Diddy Kong Racing DS. Every original character remained part of the game apart from Conker and Banjo who got replaced with Dixie and Tiny Kong. Rare got to keep any licences for any characters that didn't pre exist at Nintendo before they started working on them. So Star Fox and Donkey Kong Country are 100% by Nintendo. Whereas Banjo, Conker, Perfect Dark and Jet Force Gemini went with Rare

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Probably the clearest example of what ended up where after Rare got bought was with Diddy Kong Racing DS. Every original character remained part of the game apart from Conker and Banjo who got replaced with Dixie and Tiny Kong. Rare got to keep any licences for any characters that didn't pre exist at Nintendo before they started working on them. So Star Fox and Donkey Kong Country are 100% by Nintendo. Whereas Banjo, Conker, Perfect Dark and Jet Force Gemini went with Rare

Exactly!

 

[NintenRob]

Actually, Nintendo did use to own Banjo and Kazooie. But DIDN'T own the new characters introduced in Donkey Kong 64.

When Microsoft bought Rare, they essentially traded Banjo for the DK 64 crew. I guess they wanted to have all the characters from their franchise.

Personally I'd prefer they kept Banjo

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Any feel like we're thinking small with Microsoft Characters? I'm somewhat team Banjo, I'm alright with Master Chief (I think Arbiter would fit better since his main weapon is a melee weapon), and I don't want Steve, but still. I don't think I've seen mention of a Killer Instinct Character

People keep forgetting that the Battletoads exist, despite the fact that they have a game coming this year.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I'm going to finally make a new speculation post on smashboards based on the new info from Sakurai's book. Hopefully, something mindblowing comes up. It should be fun. Will probably be posted by tonight.

 

[BlueMonk]

People keep forgetting that the Battletoads exist, despite the fact that they have a game coming this year.

Battletoads aren't really as popular as the typically suggested Microsoft picks though.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Battletoads aren't really as popular as the typically suggested Microsoft picks though.

Yeah, I know, and it's annoying. If it's not about the Big Two, they aren't considered "likely".

I wish something can happen that'll shake things up, otherwise this feud will last forever.

 

[BlueMonk]

Yeah, I know, and it's annoying. If it's not about the Big Two, they aren't considered "likely".

I wish something can happen that'll shake things up, otherwise this feud will last forever.

I agree. Microsoft speculation is pretty samey at this point. I can't really think of any characters besides chief/banjo/steve that really have a chance though.

 

[Nquoid]

I agree. Microsoft speculation is pretty samey at this point. I can't really think of any characters besides chief/banjo/steve that really have a chance though.

Personally I think we're all sleeping on Blinx the Time Sweeper