Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I disagree that it is easier to add a third earthbound character: once again, they are in the same positron. I posit that it would be equally easy to add Matthew as it would be to add Porky. Both have existing models to use as a starting point (Brawl for Porky, Isaac AT for Matthew).

Isaac AT being used for Matthew is kind of silly when you realize Matthew isn't exactly in the same ballpark for requests. Like, not even close. He's not Isaac and developers know that. Isaac is the popular one. Matthew is just somewhat of a lookalike who shares the same role. He's only really comparable to Ninten at this point. Extremely similar characters in roles and designs. Felix probably has a decent amount of requests. Porky is still an extremely popular and major villain. Though I can see how he might be harder... moreso due to his playstyle being difficult to implement, not because one has some advantage by using an AT(which it's doubtful Matthew would get in over Felix anyway. They'd go for the most popular character after Isaac at that point among the protagonists).

This still comes back to the core of my opinion: Mother has 3 games and 2 playable reps. Golden Sun has 3 games and 0 playable reps. They are both wonderful series with lots of fans, I just think that Isaac, Felix, or Matthew should be playable before Porky or Ninten.

And that's fine. The problem is their positions aren't the same and don't make for a good reason why they should add a Golden Sun character first. Trying to lump their positions as the same(when they aren't really, as Mother had an inherent headstart since the first game) changes everything about it. I'm not sure why you're ignoring this important distinction. You can argue all day if dead and finished are different(well, you did acknowledge they are different, so I won't get into that bit. I believe they're far more distinct than you do, but eh).

The context is however way more important than the definitions. Even if we didn't get Lucas, Mother was always in a better position for Smash. To note, the fact we have two playable characters is more lucky than anything else. Now, this doesn't help my argument much, but I will note he took into account exact timing. Ness also got cut in Melee for Lucas, who was the protagonist of Mother 64. Mother 64 got cancelled. Lucas barely made it into Brawl, as Mother 3 wasn't getting localized. The key decision was to give West and East some love, not unlike Simon and Richter. Then, because the Mother series was finished, Lucas got cut in 4's base roster. Notice how Golden Sun got little as is, yet Mother got a ton of stuff even if you don't count Lucas and his few trophies. Mother being finished didn't hurt how easily it got content. Golden Sun being currently dead did. Let's remove semantics for a moment though; Golden Sun is still being ignored by Sakurai bar a very small amount of content, yet Mother is getting quite a lot in each game(again, ignoring Lucas). What does it mean? It means Mother is already in a better position anyway. The idea of Porky getting in is already more likely because Golden Sun isn't being treated nearly as important each time. There's no reason to believe Golden Sun is in a good position compared to Mother's blatantly better position in the series.

IMO, I don't see much reason to add Matthew when he feels like a poor man's Isaac design-wise. Felix, sure. He's distinct to quite a degree. Felix is kind of like Lucas design-wise. Similar bodyshape, but distinct designs. Whereas Isaac and Matthew are basically Ness and Ninten(in that order). One is vastly more popular and known, while the other came from a more controversial game. I mean, if we're going for comparisons, the exact game order of each doesn't mean much, as context has why Ness was chosen(more worldwide appeal combined with the latest character in the series).[/QUOTE]

 

[Nquoid]

Is the GBA era of Nintendo first party content the most under represented era?

Sure we have Wario modelled after Wario Ware, Roy and Lucas, but all of those were from pre existing franchises. But back in the early 2000s, Advance Wars and Golden Sun were big deals on the Nintendo console selling better than the Gamecube. Even the third generation of Pokemon got completely ignored.

 

[Qeomash]

Isaac AT being used for Matthew is kind of silly when you realize Matthew isn't exactly in the same ballpark for requests. Like, not even close. He's not Isaac and developers know that. Isaac is the popular one. Matthew is just somewhat of a lookalike who shares the same role. He's only really comparable to Ninten at this point. Extremely similar characters in roles and designs. Felix probably has a decent amount of requests. Porky is still an extremely popular and major villain. Though I can see how he might be harder... moreso due to his playstyle being difficult to implement, not because one has some advantage by using an AT(which it's doubtful Matthew would get in over Felix anyway. They'd go for the most popular character after Isaac at that point among the protagonists).

Yes, I agree, Isaac is the only proper choice for a Golden Sun character to add. But he's an AT already, so most consider that as a disqualification. So, I mentioned Matthew as an example counter pick. He could be based on Isaac's model for easier creation, just like Porky could be based on his Brawl model. (They wouldn't actually do this)

The problem is their positions aren't the same and don't make for a good reason why they should add a Golden Sun character first. Trying to lump their positions as the same(when they aren't really, as Mother had an inherent headstart since the first game) changes everything about it. I'm not sure why you're ignoring this important distinction.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm dismissing it as irrelevant for the prospect of dlc. If anything, having two reps already makes a third even harder to justify. And, as you say, Lucas barely made it into Brawl and was cut initially from 4. Seems only those two are squeaking in, mostly on the legacy of Ness being in 64. To me that makes it sound like even Porky's chances are low.

Neither Mother or Golden Sun will be getting a character.

This is the sad truth, really. There will be no new character for either series. We truly live in the darkest timeline.

Is the GBA era of Nintendo first party content the most under represented era?

I believe it is the least represented, yes. I don't think I've ever heard a explanation for that.

 

[Curious Villager]

Is the GBA era of Nintendo first party content the most under represented era?

Sure we have Wario modelled after Wario Ware, Roy and Lucas, but all of those were from pre existing franchises. But back in the early 2000s, Advance Wars and Golden Sun were big deals on the Nintendo console selling better than the Gamecube. Even the third generation of Pokemon got completely ignored.

As far as characters in general go. No.
That would be the DS, which only has Lucario, and even then, some people argue that he "technically" appeared on the GBA because of a Pokemon Mystery Dungeon cameo.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, I agree, Isaac is the only proper choice for a Golden Sun character to add. But he's an AT already, so most consider that as a disqualification. So, I mentioned Matthew as an example counter pick. He could be based on Isaac's model for easier creation, just like Porky could be based on his Brawl model. (They wouldn't actually do this)

Porky is easily more likely anyway. Franchise isn't dead(and no, your semantics don't make it a dead franchise, as the franchise was finished as of Brawl and still got a character, despite Golden Sun being much more active, even during 4, and yet got nothing even then, which is saying a lot about the major differences in the franchise's positions as is), and he has major requests and is one of more important characters to add. With the most feasible(I'll be honest, Matthew nor Felix is all that feasible at this point), he's a pretty reasonable option.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm dismissing it as irrelevant for the prospect of dlc. If anything, having two reps already makes a third even harder to justify. And, as you say, Lucas barely made it into Brawl and was cut initially from 4. Seems only those two are squeaking in, mostly on the legacy of Ness being in 64. To me that makes it sound like even Porky's chances are low.

What it means is Golden Sun is not treated well and Mother is. Mother pretty much is at an advantage here. That already makes it more likely to get another character, since it's treated as more important than a series which is currently dead. There's literally no advantage we see from Golden Sun beyond an arbitrary "must even out series", which isn't a legitimate advantage but a personal preference of fans. Something that clearly is not important to Smash anyway. It's never been how Sakurai does things, so there's no reason to believe it matters at all.

BTW, no, what you said about it being irrelevant isn't true whatsoever. You're just going to have to realize the series have been treated differently right away. The fact we almost had cuts/didn't almost make it in slightly hurts Mother, but then what does it say about Golden Sun who is in far worse shape? It's not really hard to believe a franchise they have continued to give a lot of stuff for will continue to get more and more while franchises that are given little quite consistently will continue to get little. Of course it's not impossible Golden Sun could get a character, but it's pretty unlikely outside of next game. Mother is already at an inherent advantage, so it getting some DLC is still more likely. It's effectively like comparing Pokemon to Donkey Kong here. One just gets more on average, despite the other series having more earned enough to get a decent amount of characters(more than currently). Sakurai prioritizes certain series, while some are left with less. It's hard to believe this will change without some decent evidence here. Clearly the tiny "problems" Mother had with characters didn't actually lead to major cuts bar one time, and they still came back. So the only slight disadvantage Mother at one point had was removed. It's in a better position for a character. The best I can think of for why Golden Sun could get a character is if it's an advertisement for a Golden Sun 4. Mother doesn't even need that to get Porky, but it would be received well anyway, so sure why not. Porky being a previous boss and an extremely popular one to boot, coupled with nothing going against his inclusion right now bar maybe moveset issues at best(mainly cause dead games rarely get stuff, but finished games do. Golden Sun is the most notable dead game series right now lacking in a playable character. Whereas finished series like Ice Climbers still got a character to begin with. It does seem like finished series are at an advantage here, if we look at how many are finished(compared to dead, a different thing, despite some similarities). Might just that tiny difference, really.

This is the sad truth, really. There will be no new character for either series. We truly live in the darkest timeline.

This isn't some truth. This is just an opinion you have. The only truths are that Golden Sun is currently dead, Mother as a series is finished, Golden Sun isn't treated as majorly important in Smash, and Mother is treated as an important franchise to Smash. Also, that non-video game 3rd parties are impossible(with the sole evidence for why being licensing, no other statements otherwise explain why).

I believe it is the least represented, yes. I don't think I've ever heard a explanation for that.

Well, if we look at the state of the franchise during each time, there's possible explanations for it;

• Brawl: The game was still fairly new as a series, and it doesn't look like it had any priority for a playable character, maybe. It got an AT and a few song tracks. I think maybe a few stickers and trophies too? I forget on that since it's not exactly known for being noted in Smash.
• For: It got... two songs. Maybe some Trophies too? Dark Dawn did pretty awful overall, being essentially the series' Sticker Star to some degree. Not nearly as bad, but you get the idea that it wasn't doing well.
• Ultimate: Isaac AT came back(though Polarpanda's leak told us that Isaac was never even considered... which is a pretty big deal for Golden Sun's future. Maybe next game will do better? But for now, it's severely unlikely for GS to get any playable character if this is true. Mother wouldn't be in the same position because there's literally no negatives against it getting a character beyond the fanbase's preference, and that's not some consensus anyway), we got a bit more spirits(or basically the equivalent of trophies), and a bit more music. Not exactly a big step up from Brawl as is.

Overall, I'd say Golden Sun is in the same position as before. Mother definitely isn't as it got more and more each game. It getting even more continuously seems a lot more likely because we have little reason to believe they'd stop adding more.

 

[Ornl]

There is no Fighter whose license is born on GBA and NDS.
The licenses appeared at Nintendo on GBA are Ace Attorney, Crash, Digimon, Drill Drozer, Kingdom Hearts, Kururin, Rhythm, Spyro, Starfy, Tekken...
The licenses appeared at Nintendo on NDS are Art Acadmy, Assassin's Creed, Brain Age, Cave Story, Cooking Mama, The Idolmaster, Inazuma Eleven, Jam with the Band, Nintendogs, Professor Layton, Rune Factory, Scribblenauts, Tomodachi...

 

[random rendum]

Sakurai is the creator of this genre and the one against the idea of Smash being labeled a fighting game saying its much broader as it’s a four player battle royal action game. I believe he has also labeled it under party. Point is, the actual genre Smash is placed in is undetermined so far and its mechanics are so wildly different from a typical fighter that one can not compare them properly.


The point was, yes MK8 lacked content, but it was still seen as one of the best Mario Karts due to the track design being superb. Many of the courses functioned differently from any previous entry due to the anti gravity, and many returning courses were almost unrecognizable for many as the game built them so differently (Cheese Land). Of course people will complain if things from the previous entry are left out, but that doesn’t automatically kill a game.

Also when me and many say a change in formula, that doesn’t mean we completely scrap the mechanics of the series like Paper Mario did. Sometimes, just a new addition that no one thought of could change the game in a favorable way. Maybe they could even go back to some old concepts like Subspace or even unused ones like the armor break system Brawl was going to have. The franchise has many different routes it can take that I believe could make for an interesting new take on the formula.

Also 5 games isn’t too soon. It took 4 for MK to really start trying to add new things to shake up the formula with Double Dash, then followed up with DS having tons of new stuff, Wii adding motion controls and ramps, and MK 7 and 8 changing everything for the future. If anything, 5 seems like too many to not really have some change ups, just look at how New Super Mario Bros. or Kirby are doing.

Again, I believe Ultimate was a good move as it sort of concludes everything, but just building off it for entries to come will only cause stagnation in the series as we are pretty much just adding a few new characters each entry. Everything is perfected and everyone is here, so there won’t be much fun in following the series as you know what you’re getting.

Double Dash wasn't a reboot.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Assuming we were planned to get Plusle and Minum and the Chorus Kids in previous games, we were really close to getting more GBA/DS representation, Rhythm Paradise having debuted in the GBA in Japan, but the CKs showing up with the DS game.

 

[Nquoid]

There is no Fighter whose license is born on GBA and NDS.
The licenses appeared at Nintendo on GBA are Ace Attorney, Crash, Digimon, Drill Drozer, Kingdom Hearts, Kururin, Rhythm, Spyro, Starfy, Tekken...
The licenses appeared at Nintendo on NDS are Art Acadmy, Assassin's Creed, Brain Age, Cave Story, Cooking Mama, The Idolmaster, Inazuma Eleven, Jam with the Band, Nintendogs, Professor Layton, Rune Factory, Scribblenauts, Tomodachi...

Whilst I'm not sure many of these "new" franchises would be able to support a new playable fighter, it does feel lacking that two of the Nintendo's best selling consoles only have 4 fighters combined.

Vaati, Issac, Andy, Chorus Kids, Gen 3/5 Pokemon, Fawful, Jill, Starfy, Mother 3 Porky.

I don't think any of them would set the world on fire, but there are interesting picks there that could be fun.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Double Dash wasn't a reboot.

I think it was different enough though.

When I say reboot, I mean that even the content that we already have gets redesigned instead of being just copy-pasted from the previous game and adapted.
It doens't mean that the gameplay has to be completely new... it may even mean just redesigning the movesets of the veterans.
Anyway what I hope for, is that the core gameplay recives some new gimmicks so that every moveset has to be updated.
Kinda like when Melee added the side special moves and every character recived new moves because of that.
It doesn't necessarily have to be "adding stuff", even just a redesign of aactual mechanics.

Like if the shield and grab mechanics get redesigned so that the gameplay is less about rolling all the time and more about actually fighting (and maybe in a way that it makes counters obsolete, and characters with counters get new moves as a replacement).
Just an example.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I think it was different enough though.

When I say reboot, I mean that even the content that we already have gets redesigned instead of being just copy-pasted from the previous game and adapted.
It doens't mean that the gameplay has to be completely new... it may even mean just redesigning the movesets of the veterans.
Anyway what I hope for, is that the core gameplay recives some new gimmicks so that every moveset has to be updated.
Kinda like when Melee added the side special moves and every character recived new moves because of that.
It doesn't necessarily have to be "adding stuff", even just a redesign of aactual mechanics.

Like if the shield and grab mechanics get redesigned so that the gameplay is less about rolling all the time and more about actually fighting (and maybe in a way that it makes counters obsolete, and characters with counters get new moves as a replacement).
Just an example.

Well, what you described isn't a reboot either. Reboots are taking the original game series and starting anew, while still having the core mechanics to some degree. Mortal Kombat 9 is an example of an actual reboot(game doesn't have have a proper number, just being called Mortal Kombat to help drive it home further). Or Star Fox Zero.

It's just a sequel that changed a lot more than you'd expect. Brawl is practically like that to Melee, with an immense amount of differences beyond the roster(plus the first time we had cuts). Double Dash is still Mario Kart at its core, just with a very unique mechanic... which is pretty common with the console games. I'm trying to remember whether it was the Wii or Wii U version that introduced other vehicles. Some of the handhelds had their own things. Mario Kart 64's main thing was full-out 3D instead of "kind of like 3D" where things like the Z-Axis was vastly more important in how it worked, as well as a more fleshed out battle mode, the removal of coins, and more playable options. I am unsure if the idea of a character's weight being able to make someone lose their balloon in Battle Mode was added here or not. 64 felt like a pretty huge overhaul to Super Mario Kart as well. Overall, Mario Kart has not had a reboot(maybe Mario Kart Tour might be our first case?).

 

[Robdelia]

Yes, I agree, Isaac is the only proper choice for a Golden Sun character to add. But he's an AT already, so most consider that as a disqualification. So, I mentioned Matthew as an example counter pick. He could be based on Isaac's model for easier creation, just like Porky could be based on his Brawl model. (They wouldn't actually do this)

Or they could just... not spawn the Isaac assist on matches where Isaac is a fighter if he ever got added. This goes for any assist. They already have tools in the game to prevent assists from spawning on certain stages. Alucard cannot spawn on Wii Fit Studio because he's a vampire and they have no reflection. The Moon assist cannot spawn on Great Bay because it'd mess with the one in the background.
I seriously believe that assists aren't as big of deconfirmations as we think they are and that if the devs think the fans want a character who's already an assist, they'll find a way to make it work.

 

[Curious Villager]

Aren't reboots usually done to start off with a fresh slate because things may have changed too much in a given series, or if it has started to decline in popularity?

I think the only reboot I can think of that is closely related to what people propose for Smash, was what Gamefreak did with Pokemon Black and White. Though even with that, they quickly went back to the previous formula when people where upset with the changes made and how they where mostly forced to only use the Gen 5 pokemon for the majority of the game.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Well, what you described isn't a reboot either. Reboots are taking the original game series and starting anew, while still having the core mechanics to some degree. Mortal Kombat 9 is an example of an actual reboot(game doesn't have have a proper number, just being called Mortal Kombat to help drive it home further). Or Star Fox Zero.

It's just a sequel that changed a lot more than you'd expect. Brawl is practically like that to Melee, with an immense amount of differences beyond the roster(plus the first time we had cuts). Double Dash is still Mario Kart at its core, just with a very unique mechanic... which is pretty common with the console games. I'm trying to remember whether it was the Wii or Wii U version that introduced other vehicles. Some of the handhelds had their own things. Mario Kart 64's main thing was full-out 3D instead of "kind of like 3D" where things like the Z-Axis was vastly more important in how it worked, as well as a more fleshed out battle mode, the removal of coins, and more playable options. I am unsure if the idea of a character's weight being able to make someone lose their balloon in Battle Mode was added here or not. 64 felt like a pretty huge overhaul to Super Mario Kart as well. Overall, Mario Kart has not had a reboot(maybe Mario Kart Tour might be our first case?).

I see your point...

Now that I think, while the concept of a story reboot is pretty clear, I think the concept of gameplay reboot is way more subjective.
Brawl, aside of tripping, had the same mechanics as Melee (maybe with some minor differences). Final Smashes have always been optional.
The changes of Brawl were more in the physics engine than in the gameplay on a conceptual level.
But many moveset have been slighty redesigned too...
At the same time, each Mario Kart game introduced something new and changed the core gameplay a bit, so that each different game feels indeed different.

If they are reboot or not is in my opinion up to interpretation.

P.S.: yeah, in Mario Kart 64 heavier characters can damage lighter characters by dashing into them, removing a balloon in Battle Mode. I played battle mode a lot with my brother and a couple of friends many years ago, and it happend very often.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I see your point...

Now that I think, while the concept of a story reboot is pretty clear, I think the concept of gameplay reboot is way more subjective.
Brawl, aside of tripping, had the same mechanics as Melee (maybe with some minor differences). Final Smashes have always been optional.
The changes of Brawl were more in the physics engine than in the gameplay on a conceptual level.
But many moveset have been slighty redesigned too...

Brawl also removed L-Cancelling and Wavedashing, two huge parts of gameplay, while having a similar core gameplay. A ton of techs and various glitches/exploits were also removed, many which were used in competitive Smash. It's a very divisive game due to this. It also completely changed how hitstun worked, had gliding... it's a huge difference. The moveset changes that were somewhat major(like Ganondorf and Mario) still kept the core in tact to some degree.

At the same time, each Mario Kart game introduced something new and changed the core gameplay a bit, so that each different game feels indeed different.

If they are reboot or not is in my opinion up to interpretation.

Gameplay reboots rarely happen, and Smash nor Mario Kart has done those from what I can tell so far. One that did happen was Super Paper Mario, with Color Splash being a second gameplay reboot.

P.S.: yeah, in Mario Kart 64 heavier characters can damage lighter characters by dashing into them, removing a balloon in Battle Mode. I played battle mode a lot with my brother and a couple of friends many years ago, and it happend very often.

My question is if was the first Mario Kart game to do it.

 

[Knight Dude]

It might not be 100% right but I think this is how the characters are divided by console era. I'm going by character and not series debuts.

Arcade/NES has (SF1 was on some other systems too.)
GB's got
SNES era has
N64's got (Japan only)
GCN's got (Internationally)
GBA's got
DS era has
3DS has
Wii era has
Wii-U had
Non-Nintendo Console debuts

 

[RileyXY1]

The Porky leak is fake. Ness's pose is ripped from his Brawl trophy and Gigyas is literally ripped from Earthbound.

 

[andree123]

It might not be 100% right but I think this is how the characters are divided by console era. I'm going by character and not series debuts.

Let me correct that.
Wii U -
3DS -
Wii -
DS -
GCN - (if counting Wind Waker as Toon Link's first appearance)
GBA -
N64 -
SNES - (if counting star fox 2 as Wolf's first appearance)
GB -
NES -
Arcade -
G&W -
Both Nintendo consoles -
Non-nintendo consoles -

 

[Nquoid]

Let me correct that.
Wii U -
3DS -
Wii -
DS -
GCN - (if counting Wind Waker as Toon Link's first appearance)
GBA -
N64 -
SNES - (if counting star fox 2 as Wolf's first appearance)
GB -
NES -
Arcade -
G&W -
Both Nintendo consoles -
Non-nintendo consoles -

Surely the Mii Fighters would count as Wii? I'd also be inclined to count Roy as GBA rather than GC. Smash games are ultimately cameos not canonical appearances.

Also Star Fox 2 definitely shouldn't count since it didn't come out until the SNES Classic Mini

What other console did Pichu debut on other than Game Boy?

 

[andree123]

What other console did Pichu debut on other than Game Boy?

Game Boy Color.

 

[Nquoid]

Game Boy Color.

Gold and Silver were just enhanced for the Color weren't they? Pokemon didn't officially debut on Color till Crystal.

 

[RileyXY1]

Gold and Silver were just enhanced for the Color weren't they? Pokemon didn't officially debut on Color till Crystal.

Yes. Pokemon Gold & Silver could be played on both the GB Color and the original GB. Crystal has to be played on the GB Color.

 

[Will]

Can you even consider Minecraft indie? It's one of the biggest games of the decade and one of the best selling of all time. Not to mention it's now owned by Microsoft.

it came out as an indie with notch doing everything

however it got a big ass team (mojang) and a big corporation for it (microsoft) so it's not like that anymore

Or they could just... not spawn the Isaac assist on matches where Isaac is a fighter if he ever got added. This goes for any assist.

dude everyone knows which assist trophy is gonna get in first if they open the gates for them

cry about golden sun and how isaac is different or "waluigi fans are garbage" all you want, waluigi is just too popular. the only ones who compare are the Shadow/Knuckles group.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Whilst I'm not sure many of these "new" franchises would be able to support a new playable fighter, it does feel lacking that two of the Nintendo's best selling consoles only have 4 fighters combined.

Vaati, Issac, Andy, Chorus Kids, Gen 3/5 Pokemon, Fawful, Jill, Starfy, Mother 3 Porky.

I don't think any of them would set the world on fire, but there are interesting picks there that could be fun.

Id be down for any Rhythm Paradise rep, kinda doubling as a GBA and DS rep to us Westerners that started with the DS game, especially if it were the CKs.

 

[Captain Shades]

Brawl also removed L-Cancelling and Wavedashing, two huge parts of gameplay, while having a similar core gameplay. A ton of techs and various glitches/exploits were also removed, many which were used in competitive Smash. It's a very divisive game due to this. It also completely changed how hitstun worked, had gliding... it's a huge difference. The moveset changes that were somewhat major(like Ganondorf and Mario) still kept the core in tact to some degree.

Brawl was more so a clean up of Melee. I think Sakurai viewed all those mechanics as unintentional exploits that weren’t supposed to be there and seemed mad at the idea of a competitive community growing from them. I don’t think this counts as a major gameplay change because it seems more like a fix up like many games do to glitches and exploits if the previous entry. The only reason we view it as a major gameplay change is because the competitive community used them to their advantage instead of seeing wave dashing as a glitch or exploit.

To answer you on the question of why a reboot Verde Coeden Scalesworth I think its less to do with completely overhauling gameplay and more to do with the ability to make changes. It’s easy for Mario Kart to add things to the core gameplay because MK is pretty much a clean slate series, nothing is guaranteed to come back and most stuff doesn’t between entries. The amount of time spent on one Mario Kart will probably be equal to next, if not a bit more due to graphics, whereas Smash always takes an absurd amount of time as they keep bringing back old characters and stages to up the numbers. We have 75 characters that the team has to work with next game, plus probably an additional 10 or so new comers. The work load only gets crazier and crazier, so there’ll be little room for really playing with the series and doing big things again.

I know the title is controversial, but Brawl has been gaining interest ever since Ultimate’s reveal, and I think many want that same level of ambition in the next Smash. Having so many new modes and a story was huge and really shook up the franchise more than any current or modern title. Brawl may be the black sheep of the franchise, but that black sheep is gaining traction to the point where people want to see another. The problem now is the character roster as there’s far too much to really do a big epic again. So much time will be dedicated to Smash and perfecting a formula that has practically been perfected, and just adding new characters that may be fun. The series seems to be honing in on “Smash” which was fine, but I feel it has been done now. Ultimate lacks so much in comparison to other entries because of the major work load of the huge roster. I guess from my perspective, I’d take a smaller roster if we got adventure mode and many of the side content. I also think a reboot could bring in some new or old concepts that weren’t explored, armor break from Brawl, Custom moves, etc.

IDK, I guess I just disagree with the rest of the thread. To me, Smash feels concluded, all the major players are in and there’s no reason to really keep moving into the hundreds just because I would be disappointed by the lack of X character or feel X character wouldn’t have a chance anymore. Ultimate feels like a one time thing, a celebration of 20 years of work, which makes it the perfect time to try and build something new out of the franchise. I love Ultimate, but I don’t think I want to stay on this path as the next entry will probably feel more like a Smash Wii U in which I’ll get bored as it didn’t have the same risks and charm as the previous entry. It’ll just feel...Vanilla?

Messing with formulas is what ruined games like Paper Mario.

Not to go back to this point but what? Super is considered one of the best entries, if not the best in the series even though it’s radically different from the previous two. Color Splash was also pretty well liked and was said to have brought back the charm of the series.

Sticker Star fell flat due to poor and cryptic gameplay and level design, along with a lack of personality.

 

[Will]

Not to go back to this point but what? Super is considered one of the best entries, if not the best in the series even though it’s radically different from the previous two. Color Splash was also pretty well liked and was said to have brought back the charm of the series.

Sticker Star fell flat due to poor and cryptic gameplay and level design, along with a lack of personality.

I think Super has one of the best stories and Color Splash is visually the best Paper Mario has ever looked, but would it kill them to take the gameplay elements of the first two and the benefits that Super and CS have created to make another fantastic RPG?

Mario & Luigi has literally dumped all of its library on the 3DS. I think it's bone dry now, and their developers are probably tired of seeing Mario & Luigi all up in their bibliography.

 

[Ignoritus]

So another video on the supposed Porky/Gigyas leak.

Thoughts?

Another? Was there a first one?

 

[Curious Villager]

It might not be 100% right but I think this is how the characters are divided by console era. I'm going by character and not series debuts.

Arcade/NES has (SF1 was on some other systems too.)
GB's got
SNES era has
N64's got (Japan only)
GCN's got (Internationally)
GBA's got
DS era has
3DS has
Wii era has
Wii-U had
Non-Nintendo Console debuts

> When you realize the sad state the DS era has been in Smash for so long despite being Nintendo's like, second most successful console of all time or so (if I recall correctly)

Where's my Layton at, Sakurai.... ; _ ;

 

[Will]

Arcade/NES has

this is a big yikes from me

SNES era has

dude come on

 

[dezeray112]

So another video on the supposed Porky/Gigyas leak.

Thoughts?

Something about it seems rather off. But I am leaning more on fake.

 

[Will]

Something about it seems rather off. But I am leaning more on fake.

yeah but if it's fake i at least wanna see the whole damn thing in its poopy CGI glory

 

[Koopaul]

Aren't reboots usually done to start off with a fresh slate because things may have changed too much in a given series, or if it has started to decline in popularity?

A reboot happens when the series hits a roadblock of some sort. Where a normal sequel just doesn't seem like a wise choice. There can be numberous reasons why.

 

[Knight Dude]

this is a big yikes from me

View attachment 224521


dude come on

View attachment 224522

Forgot about Snake and Richter, I just know their games had Nintendo versions.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

> When you realize the sad state the DS era has been in Smash for so long despite being Nintendo's like, second most successful console of all time or so (if I recall correctly)

Where's my Layton at, Sakurai.... ; _ ;

It would help if Hino didn't have his series burn out frequently.

A reboot happens when the series hits a roadblock of some sort. Where a normal sequel just doesn't seem like a wise choice. There can be numberous reasons why.

Then there are series that manage to work around that, like in Mortal Kombat's case.

Poor Star Fox, meanwhile, couldn't have that work.

 

[Knight Dude]

Well, regardless of the mistakes I made, it shows that if anything, the DS has the least in terms of characters. And the GBA doesn't have a ton either.

Granted, outside of third parties, there's not a ton of DS characters I can think of. You've got like 2 different Rhythm game series Golden Sun Dark Dawn and Fossil Fighters.

 

[RileyXY1]

Well, regardless of the mistakes I made, it shows that if anything, the DS has the least in terms of characters. And the GBA doesn't have a ton either.

Granted, outside of third parties, there's not a ton of DS characters I can think of. You've got like 2 different Rhythm game series Golden Sun Dark Dawn and Fossil Fighters.

And, technically, there's Ashley as well.

 

[Curious Villager]

It would help if Hino didn't have his series burn out frequently.

Level-5's been fairly quiet in general lately. I'm not really sure what they are up to these days outside of that one Yokai Watch Switch game.
Apparently there is a concert or something coming up for the Layton series next month I think, so who knows if they will be announcing the next mainline game there or not I guess...

 

[Ridrool64]

I'm curious: what are the chances that we'll see Plants vs. Zombies content? Let's say the playable character would be either Crazy Dave or Sunflower, but either of them would primarily reference PvZ 1 and 2. I think there's some really interesting potential with a stage control character like either of them, and I think they're the best reps we could get for Tower Defense.

Mostly asking because it's PvZ's 10th anniversary year, I think the day has passed unfortunately. Unsure of likelihood.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

PvZ anything in Smash is never happening.

 

[Idon]

I'm curious: what are the chances that we'll see Plants vs. Zombies content? Let's say the playable character would be either Crazy Dave or Sunflower, but either of them would primarily reference PvZ 1 and 2. I think there's some really interesting potential with a stage control character like either of them, and I think they're the best reps we could get for Tower Defense.

Mostly asking because it's PvZ's 10th anniversary year, I think the day has passed unfortunately. Unsure of likelihood.

It is very, very VERY doubtful.