Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[I.D.]

How would you guys react if we got extra stages in between major characters updates that represent games that don't have actual characters playable in game?

Like take the same treatment that the DLC fighters have and put background cameos from those games, for example:

A scuttle town stage where the Shantae cast is hanging out in the background with low poly models watching the battle.

What's the point? Casual players are not going to buy them because people care about playable characters first and foremost, competitive players are not going to buy stages that they are just going to ban anyway, and they would be too much work compared to spirit boards for them to be free DLC.

 

[snowgolem]

How would you guys react if we got extra stages in between major characters updates that represent games that don't have actual characters playable in game?

Like take the same treatment that the DLC fighters have and put background cameos from those games, for example:

A scuttle town stage where the Shantae cast is hanging out in the background with low poly models watching the battle.

I would find it strange. It’d be kind of like walking into someone’s house uninvited, and I don’t like that weird feeling. Maybe if we got stages for assist trophies it would be alright, but characters that are only represented by a spirit would be weird

 

[Idon]

How would you guys react if we got extra stages in between major characters updates that represent games that don't have actual characters playable in game?

Like take the same treatment that the DLC fighters have and put background cameos from those games, for example:

A scuttle town stage where the Shantae cast is hanging out in the background with low poly models watching the battle.

Unless it's tourney legal or I'm desperately in love with the game represented, it's unlikely I'll give a damn.

 

[ThatOneAnon]

It isn't at all though. Reception has been mostly positive, there's a lot of fanart for the character going around too as usual. This is just the same as every other instance of people going "WAAAAAAH I DIDN'T GET THE CHARACTER I WANT"

Are you blind? PapaGenos, Vinny, Maximillian Dood, tons of really high profile YTers who usually enjoy everything Sakurai puts out are all collectively ****ting on this reveal. Byleth's trailer has gotten the most dislikes out of any trailer for any character. Like I said earlier, people are realizing Sakurai lied about Rex.

 

[Dark Bagel]

I remember a friend seeing the Papagenos meltdown and saying that people not getting what they want can reflect their true nature. Guess it makes sense as my irl friends barely talked about Byleth until like, an hour after the presentation, which is a ****ing world record when compared to people here and other social media

"You see, when they don't get a smash character they want, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know the fanbase better than Sakurai ever did. Would you like to know which of them were whiners?”

 

[[Maple]]

It isn't at all though. Reception has been mostly positive, there's a lot of fanart for the character going around too as usual. This is just the same as every other instance of people going "WAAAAAAH I DIDN'T GET THE CHARACTER I WANT"

That saying, I can get why some people are a little bit tired of FE. Imagine being a fan of Zelda or Kirby while FE fans pretty much always get something they want. Some first party franchises need more love, not only FE.

I'm neutral in this story, but I can understand why some players are tired of FE characters in Smash.

 

[Idon]

people are realizing Sakurai lied about Rex.

I don't think "PapaGenos, Vinny, Maximillian Dood, tons of really high profile YTers" very much care about Rex as much as they simply being disappointed, lol.

 

[I.D.]

That saying, I can get why some people are a little bit tired of FE. Imagine being a fan of Zelda or Kirby while FE fans pretty much always get something they want. Some first party franchises need more love, not only FE.

I'm neutral in this story, but I can understand why some players are tired of FE characters in Smash.

Yeah but have you considered rotating cast of characters

 

[MBRedboy31]

What's the point? Casual players are not going to buy them because people care about playable characters first and foremost, competitive players are not going to buy stages that they are just going to ban anyway, and they would be too much work compared to spirit boards for them to be free DLC.

To be fair, we don’t actually know how well they’d sell; Nintendo knows, though, from the DLC stage sales in Smash 4 (such as the Mario Maker stage.)
I do think the stage would need some kind of super unique gimmick to appeal to the casual crowd who might want to buy a DLC stage, like the Mario Maker stage did.

For competitive players, Omegas and Battlefield Forms exist. I guess whoever owns the setup would have to be personally interested in the stage, though, since it’s relatively rare for tournaments to actually use those forms.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

"You see, when they don't get a smash character they want, people show you who they really are. So in a way, I know the fanbase better than Sakurai ever did. Would you like to know which of them were whiners?”

View attachment 258554

imagine if he did have this color. He would Join Hazama and Adachi for having joker colors

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I don't think "PapaGenos, Vinny, Maximillian Dood, tons of really high profile YTers" very much care about Rex as much as they simply being disappointed, lol.

PapaGenos will likely leave the speculation scene and the Smash community after this. I can't see him being a fan of this game anymore considering his reaction. Vinny obviously tried very hard to stay optimistic for the next six characters even though he clearly wants nothing to do with Smash anymore, and Max isn't even a Smashtuber.
As for them caring about Rex, of course none of them do. I wasn't talking about them in that post.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Are you blind? PapaGenos, Vinny, Maximillian Dood, tons of really high profile YTers who usually enjoy everything Sakurai puts out are all collectively ****ting on this reveal. Byleth's trailer has gotten the most dislikes out of any trailer for any character. Like I said earlier, people are realizing Sakurai lied about Rex.

Papagenos acted like a ****ing manchild, threw his hat and screamed at Sakurai for SDing with the other 4 DLC characters because of his FE bias. Haven't seen the others but Max was incredibly chill despite his disappointment, Max even said Byleth looked cool but he was so caught up on Dante and stayed up all night for the trailer, yet had an incredibly mild reaction despite what you're claiming. Byleth's trailer also has more like than dislikes, proving that there are more people who are happy than angry.


Actually, I do want to talk about Rex cause people don't understand anything apparantly. Rex was too recent... to hit the base roster. If Sakurai wanted Rex as DLC he'd have held off the XB2 content in the game for the sake of a challenger pack, but he didn't, remember, the fighter pass was only made pretty late in development, and scrapping multiple songs, costumes and spirits may have been deemed as a waste of time. The two can't be compared as they have different circumstances

 

[osby]

You know, I don't expect a "huge" character in terms of sales and hardcore Smash fandom popularity to open the next pass.

Joker was neither, but he appearently did a pretty good job at making people buy the first pass. I think him being a left field pick played a part in this; since it gave people hope that seemingly unlikely characters can get in.

I'm probably wrong, but I expect our next newcomer to be more like him than, say, Banjo or Byleth.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

PapaGenos will likely leave the speculation scene and the Smash community after this. I can't see him being a fan of this game anymore considering his reaction. Vinny obviously tried very hard to stay optimistic for the next six characters even though he clearly wants nothing to do with Smash anymore, and Max isn't even a Smashtuber.
As for them caring about Rex, of course none of them do. I wasn't talking about them in that post.

I think that's a bit of an overreaction for Papa.

 

[Deleted member]

It isn't at all though. Reception has been mostly positive, there's a lot of fanart for the character going around too as usual. This is just the same as every other instance of people going "WAAAAAAH I DIDN'T GET THE CHARACTER I WANT"

What’s really funny is that I went into the reveal expecting one of my most wanteds(although less so expecting, and more so hoping) but considering the fact that all of my most wanteds are obscure card game anime bois, obviously I didn’t get what I wanted.

But hey, I ain’t complaining! Just not that big of a fan of FE, that’s all.

 

[DoctorHero]

Anyone who missed my link about fighter pass 2 it is on page 2033 and comment #81,314

 

[I.D.]

Actually, I do want to talk about Rex cause people don't understand anything apparantly. Rex was too recent... to hit the base roster. If Sakurai wanted Rex as DLC he'd have held off the XB2 content in the game for the sake of a challenger pack, but he didn't, remember, the fighter pass was only made pretty late in development, and scrapping multiple songs, costumes and spirits may have been deemed as a waste of time. The two can't be compared as they have different circumstances

I've gotta say, it's pretty impressive that you, of all people, have not taken a single jab at Rex or Xenoblade 2 since Byleth was revealed. I guess even you must feel some pity deep down for those poor souls.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Are you blind? PapaGenos, Vinny, Maximillian Dood, tons of really high profile YTers who usually enjoy everything Sakurai puts out are all collectively ****ting on this reveal. Byleth's trailer has gotten the most dislikes out of any trailer for any character. Like I said earlier, people are realizing Sakurai lied about Rex.

They may have an audience, but they still are just a few people in the grand scheme of things. Besides, not all of the reactions were negative on the YouTube front; most of the competitive players were happy or indifferent, and Arlo just laughed the entire time.

Also, unless he made a more negative tweet or something, Max was just disappointed that the rug was pulled out from under him. You could tell he was kinda sad and couldn't care less about Fire Emblem, but he wasn't a seething cauldron of fire like PapaGenos was.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Why add spirits from Swoshi this late in the game if they're also planning to include a character from it?

Well the Swish Spirits are all pokemon that were shown off early.
And if patterns are to be followed (uproarious laughter) then the character would be a final form or a starter. So bodes badly for Sword and Shield doggos but not for Gen 8 as a whole.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That saying, I can get why some people are a little bit tired of FE. Imagine being a fan of Zelda or Kirby while FE fans pretty much always get something they want. Some first party franchises need more love, not only FE.

I'm neutral in this story, but I can understand why some players are tired of FE characters in Smash.

I'm a fan of Kirby and I understand the disappointment. I really do, I was a tad disappointed myself about a few things involving Byleth despite adoring 3H and liking how Smash implemented 3H content. But there's a difference between "I didn't like this" and "OH MY GOD THIS IS LITERALLY THE WORST NOBODY WILL LIKE SMASH ANYMORE NINTENDO'S STOCK PLUMMETED COMPLETELY NOBODY WILL TRUST SAKURAI EVER AGAIN". That second one happened when the 4 roster leaked. It happened when we saw Corrin and Bayonetta. It happened when Grinch was proven fake and it's happening again.

PapaGenos will likely leave the speculation scene and the Smash community after this. I can't see him being a fan of this game anymore considering his reaction. Vinny obviously tried very hard to stay optimistic for the next six characters even though he clearly wants nothing to do with Smash anymore, and Max isn't even a Smashtuber.
As for them caring about Rex, of course none of them do. I wasn't talking about them in that post.

Bruh Max has been vocal about liking so many different video games that if we got Dante, Doomguy, Sub Zero, Sol and pretty much anything else he remotely likes that Byleth was "I don't really care about that" for him at most

 

[I.D.]

Arlo just laughed the entire time.

Are you really going to use Arlo as an example of a positive reception?

 

[DoctorHero]

Toxtricity can get in as gen 8 rep and they can add different pokemon as dlc spirits including ones from Pokemon Sword Expansion Pass & Pokemon Shield Expansion Pass

 

[ThatOneAnon]

I'm a fan of Kirby and I understand the disappointment. I really do, I was a tad disappointed myself about a few things involving Byleth despite adoring 3H and liking how Smash implemented 3H content. But there's a difference between "I didn't like this" and "OH MY GOD THIS IS LITERALLY THE WORST NOBODY WILL LIKE SMASH ANYMORE NINTENDO'S STOCK PLUMMETED COMPLETELY NOBODY WILL TRUST SAKURAI EVER AGAIN". That second one happened when the 4 roster leaked. It happened when we saw Corrin and Bayonetta. It happened when Grinch was proven fake and it's happening again.

Bruh Max has been vocal about liking so many different video games that if we got Dante, Doomguy, Sub Zero, Sol and pretty much anything else he remotely likes that Byleth was "I don't really care about that" for him at most

How many dislikes did Corrin and Bayo's trailers get? How many dislikes did the Kencineroar trailer get?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I've gotta say, it's pretty impressive that you, of all people, have not taken a single jab at Rex or Xenoblade 2 since Byleth was revealed. I guess even you must feel some pity deep down for those poor souls.

Oh don't get me wrong, Xenoblade 2 fans still don't deserve basic human rights and you'd have to pay me to buy it even if it was 20 euros

How many dislikes did Corrin and Bayo's trailers get? How many dislikes did the Kencineroar trailer get?

Less dislikes than likes, just like Byleth

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well the Swish Spirits are all pokemon that were shown off early.
And if patterns are to be followed (uproarious laughter) then the character would be a final form or a starter. So bodes badly for Sword and Shield doggos but not for Gen 8 as a whole.

I really hope the pattern does not continue. There is so much more to Pokémon than the starters, and I would love to see them even though it would probably mean the characters would come from older games in the series.

Are you really going to use Arlo as an example of a positive reception?

Did he make any negative social media posts that I don't know about? If not then I'd say his reception was decently positive.

 

[I.D.]

Did he make any negative social media posts that I don't know about? If not then I'd say his reception was decently positive.

Dude, he was clearly laughing out of sheer disbelief. His first words when seeing Byleth were "Oh no". If he actually liked what he was watching he would have watched to the end instead of tuning out halfway through.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Though, what other Indie Characters can be potential mii costumes?

a bit late but

- Kyoko from River City Girls
- Hollow Knight
- Gunvolt (Azure Striker Gunvolt)
- Copen (Gunvolt Chronicles: Luminous Avenger iX)

 

[Deleted member]

Dude, he was clearly laughing out of sheer disbelief. His first words when seeing Byleth were "Oh no". If he actually liked what he was watching he would have watched to the end instead of tuning out halfway through.

That doesn’t necessarily mean he hates or dislikes Byleth thou, just that it was a surprise. Hell he may have said Oh No because he knew the amount of salt this would cause.

 

[Garteam]

While it's pretty clear with hindsight that base game spirits were a deconfirmation for Fighter's Pass 1, I don't think the same applies going into season 2.

For the base game, the spirits list was picked by a separate team, with Sakurai reviewing their options and adding/removing characters for a variety of reasons. As such, I think one of Sakurai's criterion during this process was "Are there any spirits who overlapped with a fighter?". Additionally, given that the first fighter's pass was finalized late into the development of the base game, it was pretty likely this applied to the DLC characters too. Combine this with the fact that Sakurai assumed that the fighter's pass would be the only DLC content, he didn't have to worry about having overlap between the fighters and spirits in the future, as he knew (what he assumed would be) Ultimate's final roster.

However, the Fighter's Pass isn't the only piece of DLC coming, we have six more characters in the oven as we speak. As such, there may be some characters who slip through the cracks and have both a standard spirit and a DLC spot. Sakurai wouldn't have vetted these characters out as he believed that the base roster and fighter's pass would be all there was. Likewise, I don't think Sakurai is going to block out a potentially interesting option solely on the grounds they had been given a spirit when he assumed there was no way for them to get in the game.

The only potential exceptions to this are the spirits that came through downloadable updates. If they were decided after Fighter's Pass 2 was finalized, then I think those spirits are effectively deconfirmed. If they were decided before Fighter's Pass 2 was finalized, then they're probably alright, as there would be no need for Sakurai to vet them out.

 

[Opossum]

PapaGenos will likely leave the speculation scene and the Smash community after this. I can't see him being a fan of this game anymore considering his reaction.

Hey man don't threaten me with a good time.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Dude, he was clearly laughing out of sheer disbelief. His first words when seeing Byleth were "Oh no". If he actually liked what he was watching he would have watched to the end instead of tuning out halfway through.

That doesn’t necessarily mean he hates or dislikes Byleth thou, just that it was a surprise. Hell he may have said Oh No because he knew the amount of salt this would cause.

Yeah. If he truly didn't like it he wouldn't have called it "...the Funniest Nintendo Reveal I Have Ever Witnessed".

Also, the first comment is from him:

"I know it seems like I cut it off early, but I just didn't have any significant reaction to the later stuff. I wanted to keep it short and sweet and stick to the parts that made me laugh."

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hey man don't threaten me with a good time.

But where else will you get such high quality clickbait? Laxchris and Blocked Content won't give you crazy theories on Arle or 12 minute videos discussing a single tweet from Sakurai acknowledging Chrono Trigger winning a poll!

 

[I.D.]

That doesn’t necessarily mean he hates or dislikes Byleth thou, just that it was a surprise. Hell he may have said Oh No because he knew the amount of salt this would cause.

Yeah. If he truly didn't like it he wouldn't have called it "...the Funniest Nintendo Reveal I Have Ever Witnessed".

You people are unbelievable

 

[SKX31]

How many dislikes did Corrin and Bayo's trailers get? How many dislikes did the Kencineroar trailer get?

This situation ain't Infinite Warfare or Battlefront II at release bad. Those are the points where most companies course correct - if only because those are the points where things start actually hurt. This? Nah, not seeing it. TPC did not budge even when Dexit was the most talked about thing about Sw / Sh. In Dexit's (and likely this) case your Average Joe / Jane are not likely seeing it the same way as the hardcore fan (Sw / Sh is bigger than Sun / Moon IIRC, have to confirm that). By contrast, Infinite Warfare's the lowest-selling CoD game - albeit still really big by any measure - because people tired with Activision's direction, and Battlefront II at release... hoo boy that was such a PR disaster for EA that lawmakers practically forced their hand.

Even so, course correcting can be hazardous too. Rise of Skywalker is a perfect example IMHO (even as I like a lot of that movie, it's clear that the awkward course correcting and "having the cake and eating it too" hindered it a lot), So Nintendo's probably going to look at this and conclude "Yeah, lets not push that button again for a while. Don't wanna have another Infinite Wardare and have to course correct carefully".

That said, I strongly doubt we'll see another FE character for a while. Nintendo's very likely to consider 3H an "ever-green" title and continue to support it with DLC for the forseeable future. Also, it's gonna be kinda difficult to come up with a new weapon / moveset for a FE character (Byleth brings in how many weapons? 3? 4?), so I doubt Sakurai goes for it.

 

[I.D.]

That said, I strongly doubt we'll see another FE character for a while. Nintendo's very likely to consider 3H an "ever-green" title and continue to support it with DLC for the forseeable future. Also, it's gonna be kinda difficult to come up with a new weapon / moveset for a FE character (Byleth brings in how many weapons? 3? 4?), so I doubt Sakurai goes for it.

Remake of FE4 aka Horse Emblem is coming up next, there's your moveset: a horseman.

 

[Polan]

Remake of FE4 aka Horse Emblem is coming up next, there's your moveset: a horseman.

SoV got jack****. quit your fearmongering.

 

[osby]

This situation ain't Infinite Warfare or Battlefront II at release bad. Those are the points where most companies course correct - if only because those are the points where things start actually hurt. This? Nah, not seeing it. TPC did not budge even when Dexit was the most talked about thing about Sw / Sh. In Dexit's (and likely this) case your Average Joe / Jane are not likely seeing it the same way as the hardcore fan (Sw / Sh is bigger than Sun / Moon IIRC, have to confirm that). By contrast, Infinite Warfare's the lowest-selling CoD game - albeit still really big by any measure - because people tired with Activision's direction, and Battlefront II at release... hoo boy that was such a PR disaster for EA that lawmakers practically forced their hand.

Even so, course correcting can be hazardous too. Rise of Skywalker is a perfect example IMHO (even as I like a lot of that movie, it's clear that the awkward course correcting and "having the cake and eating it too" hindered it a lot), So Nintendo's probably going to look at this and conclude "Yeah, lets not push that button again for a while. Don't wanna have another Infinite Wardare and have to course correct carefully".

That said, I strongly doubt we'll see another FE character for a while. Nintendo's very likely to consider 3H an "ever-green" title and continue to support it with DLC for the forseeable future. Also, it's gonna be kinda difficult to come up with a new weapon / moveset for a FE character (Byleth brings in how many weapons? 3? 4?), so I doubt Sakurai goes for it.

Well, we need another FE game for another newcomer from it and that won't come for a while.

I think Byleth's timing was as good as they come. If FE isn't your thing, you don't have to worry about it for the next pass.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Remake of FE4 aka Horse Emblem is coming up next, there's your moveset: a horseman.

Oh yes, Robin brought in magic, Corrin brought in Manakete/shapeshifter representation, and Byleth brought the rest of the weapon triangle, but we are not done with FE yet as we still need cavalier and flier representation.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, it's gonna be kinda difficult to come up with a new weapon / moveset for a FE character (Byleth brings in how many weapons? 3? 4?), so I doubt Sakurai goes for it.

Yeah, it'd have to be some type of mage, Manakete, or mounted unit.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh yes, Robin brought in magic, Corrin brought in Manakete/shapeshifter representation, and Byleth brought the rest of the weapon triangle, but are not done with FE yet as we still need cavalier and flier representation.

Tbf there's a reason people call 3H Flier Emblem, bring in Timeskip Hilda as FP6 baybeeeee