Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SNEKeater]

I'm looking at the renders and man FemByleth looks amazing.

 

[Jocario Zero]

That was back when Sakurai had Star Fox bias. And Kirby bias. But then he dropped those to get Kid Icarus bias, and even apparently Xenoblade bias. Neither of those lasted long though before the FE bias we know and love took over.

Because that's totally how biases work and not antithetical to the idea of what a bias is.

Good times.

I think i missed that. When exactly did he show Xenoblade-Bias? Because he said how much he enjoyed Xenoblade 2 and considered Rex as a character?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

...when did he ever have a Starfox bias?

Kid icarus, he gave that cast life instead of just being a generic 80's game, I think he deserves that much content.

Star Fox got Wolf and Falco got new moves so clearly Sakurai had such a strong desire for Star Fox he prioritized it over MY favourites.

Kid Icarus had a new game and content from the new game alongside a popular request and *gasp* a clone! For shame, he's lost his rational mind as that's why we didn't get my favourite

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Dunno about Reddit but Twitter has been pretty ugly on the Smash side of things. Looooooots of bitter people on both sides.

Fire Emblem fans are happy though, lol.

My teacher, reddit has also been toxic. R/smash is in shambles

 

[Rie Sonomura]

...when did he ever have a Starfox bias?

Kid icarus, he gave that cast life instead of just being a generic 80's game, I think he deserves that much content.

... I wish he had a Splatoon bias or even an F-Zero bias...

 

[Curious Villager]

...when did he ever have a Starfox bias?

People where pretty furious about Wolf's inclusion back in the Brawl day's and when Starfox seemed to get a newcomer in every smash game with no cuts.

Which is probably hard to imagine nowadays, especially during the Smash 4 ballot period...

 

[N3ON]

...when did he ever have a Starfox bias?

Kid icarus, he gave that cast life instead of just being a generic 80's game, I think he deserves that much content.

Brawl. When there were three Landmasters Landmastering all over the place and a fair few grumps got their knickers in a twist.

Much like I find myself currently, regarding Fire Emblem.

 

[MooMew64]

Like, people who say that it "Isn't a good end to the pass" confuse me because while yes this is the end of the first pass, we have another full one coming. Why would there be a need to treat it like a big finale if this is only the halfway point?

Even some of the people I follow have used this argument and it really does seem odd to me.

 

[Deleted member]

So now that we all know the characters of our first pass. How would you rate it and the characters?

Sure. I'll join in. Be warned, my overall impressions were incredibly positive.

Joker - 9/10

This mother-****** set the stage. Everybody kind of knows what Persona 5 is, right? It's cult weeb fun built into an easy-to-digest JRPG and made a huge splash worldwide. I kept tabs on this game because I enjoyed Persona 3 and 4. It was always on my radar, just really lowkey. Unfortunately, I never played it to this day, so I didn't latch onto Joker all that much. Thankfully, Joker represents the entire series, which warms my boomer heart. His stage comes with music from the whole series and even changes aesthetic depending on the track. This isn't even mentioning other details like Joker getting the most love put into his victory screens or how he has a schoolboy uniform. The amount of care that went into this pass was commendable. If we got more music and I actually played Persona 5, it'd be a 10/10.

Hero - 9.5/10

Gonna feel real weird saying this, but this is one of the few characters that have made an actual impact on my life. I got onto Smashboards because I wanted to show support for Dragon Quest in Smash, and then I stayed and interacted with assholes in the social thread, which kept me here to present day. I have dedicated nearly half a year speculating this character getting into Ultimate. Interestingly, the only DQ games I've actually finished before the reveal were Dragon Quest 8 and 9, so I had zero personal attachment toward Luminary or Erdrick beyond speculation. I just wanted the series in because I thought it'd be cool.

Now the real appeal to this series being in Smash was that it's contents became more enjoyable as time went on. For starters, we got Dragon Quest 4 and 8's protagonists as alternate costumes, which greatly increases visual diversity. All of their designs tell different stories and it's fun to switch between them all. Then his moveset came out. It is an RNG nightmare filled with crazy supermoves and buffing mechanics. It was an actual blast trying him out the first time with my brother and friends. His bull**** perfectly fit the nonsense I enjoy in Smash Bros. And then finally, Hero's inclusion inspired me to marathon the rest of the series during last semester of college. I played through DQ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 11 in the span of five months, and now I'm planning to tackle all of their post games this semester. Imagine the only games you play for a dedicated period of time to be a JRPG series with a heavy emphasis on grinding. That took effort in spades, but it was worth it. Dragon Quest has literally etched itself into my life for a year, and that's not something I can easily ignore.

Not a 10/10 though, and you know where I'm going with this. 8 MIDI tracks and a fairly bland stage. Kinda tripped over the finish line there.

Banjo & Kazooie - 9.75/10

I grew up with this series, so it's only natural I lose my crap over it. It was one of the few games that literally defined what video games were for me. Just dumb fun I could mess around with. Despite that, BK were always those characters I wanted but never expected because they were dead. Straight up bought and forgotten. A modern design that could retain the classic N64 charm while giving it updated animation was literally impossible for me to see. Banjo-Kazooie and 2019 were completely separate statements in my mind. This made his reveal much more legendary. It drew this cult gathering together where everyone wanted to see what was happening before the actual reveal happened and you see their glorious faces animated for the first time in a decade.

Now as a pass, they're pretty fun. Banjo's moveset is an all-rounder with good hitboxes and fairly good special moves. Spiral Mountain and all its cameos are pretty fun to look at. 7 remixes is way more than they deserve, but they got it and they all sound great and catchy. I think my only issue is I would have liked more Tooie music. It's focused primarily on the first game and I had more memories with Tooie. Very nitpicky; near-perfect.

Terry Bogard - 8.5/10

This is like the first series in this Pass I really had no connection with. I played KoF 94 on the Wii with my brother for a month, but that was a while ago and I only remembered Teams America and Korea. Revisiting the series after the reveal, there were multiple things that stuck out in my mind. 1) The music is hot fire in King of Fighters, especially around 94-00 where they released these amazing arranged albums. 2) Terry isn't the most interesting part about those games, and I'm not too interested in the 1v1 Fatal Fury series beyond novelty.

Despite that, this pass was nice. Terry meshes well with me more than Ryu and Ken because of how much damage he can do when he gets in. He's not super punishing if you misinput and his commands are satisfying to pull off and land. Then there's the 50 songs, which include not only KOF but Metal Slugs, which is an SNK series I am familiar with. All of the cameos on the KOF stage is pretty endearing too. It's fundamentally solid and you can tell Sakurai put the most time into this one.

Byleth - 7.5/10

Oh my god. This was the timeline we thought Sakurai always would do, but wouldn't do. First of all, that trailer kind of sucked. It was terribly paced, no context was given to outsiders, and it looked like a stilted Three Houses cutscene (probably because it was). However, everything about Byleth for Smash gradually became more acceptable the more we knew about Three Houses. Corrin's issue was that Fates was not released in America at the point and that it was so divisive to where it even split Fire Emblem fans. But Three Houses? This game is phenomenal, if a bit too loaded for its own good.

What shocked me upon Three Houses' release was that Byleth was a mute, and that was somehow more disappointing than Corrin's **** writing. He also had a sword, and we all knew Smash Bros can't handle another anime sword fighter. I thought if Byleth had to be in, I would have either wanted him to have multiple weapons like in Three Houses or lead the three House Leaders. Thankfully, Sakurai answered my prayers with the multiple weapon idea. Dude looks cool as Hell and Three Houses looks beautiful in Smash Bros. Music selection is good and I'm sure merging it with other Fire Emblem tracks will be fun.

Anyways, I called it. Catch my discord where you'll get all the relevant info for the future DLC packs.

 

[h2ogre]

Sakurai did say that he liked Nier Automata. So, maybe

 

[SvartWolf]

To be fair, Dark Pit sucks.

I present you with the "The dark pit paradox"

Where the characters suckness is inversely proportonial to how much effort and resources have been used on the character, but at the same time as more resources he drains from teh development he sucks more due to being a "wasted slot".


Personally if he was more fleshed out and different i would maybe like teh character a little more, but at the same time would want for that resources to be spent elsewhere, but on the other hand, the least ammount of resources spent on him make me care less about him, but also don't mind him since he is basically a free slot.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Not surprised about people being idiots about Byleth.

But I'm genuinely appalled not a single one of you has mentioned what a stupid ****ing name "Byleth" is

You people disgust me

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Oh my gosh.

Are people starting to use Pokemon dexxit arguments like "Reused animations" to complain about Byleth?

I...That's it. We've done it: We've achieved peak toxic fandom. Nothing can top this. I'm honestly amazed.

Stop please, You're gonna make me start coughing up blood..

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Dunno about Reddit but Twitter has been pretty ugly on the Smash side of things. Looooooots of bitter people on both sides.

Fire Emblem fans are happy though, lol.

To quote someone on /r/fireemblem
"If god hates us so much, then why do we keep winning?"

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well since 1st party back on the table just realized a sleeper and this character is not a spirit nor mii costume nor assist

And that’s sylux it all really depends if involved with Metroid prime 4 and if it comes out during one of the areas of a package

 

[Nekoo]

Soooo...
We're in for a dance of two more years? Dear god... this is going to be a long ride

 

[Cosmic77]

Today can pretty much be summed up with this.

 

[h2ogre]

So, has sakurai already decided on who all the dlc will be?

 

[I.D.]

So, has sakurai already decided on who all the dlc will be?

Yes. He said so in the presentation.

 

[N3ON]

I think i missed that. When exactly did he show Xenoblade-Bias? Because he said how much he enjoyed Xenoblade 2 and considered Rex as a character?

He never showed it, people just said he had it because he included Shulk when no non-retro series had ever been included with as little to show as Xenoblade did back in like 2012 when the roster was made.

People used it both for and against Xenoblade's favour, which is kinda funny in retrospect. I remember arguing with someone who said we'd get Elma simply because Sakurai liked Xenoblade so much (this was before XC2).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

To be fair, Dark Pit sucks.

That face when you love Dark Pit as a character so his inclusion in smash is incredibly awkward....

 

[SvartWolf]

So, has sakurai already decided on who all the dlc will be?

yes... but he is not telling ._.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So, has sakurai already decided on who all the dlc will be?

As of November last year apparently if we take the recording time into account. Also the characters will be released up to December 2021 so it's a rate of three a year.

 

[Droodle]

The good thing about Byleth is that he blew away all the potential expectations we have had. Color theory, FP being full 3rd party, etc. The only consistent trend is that only characters not in Smash Ultimate have gotten in (which may change in the second pass); and that they tend to save the "controversial" picks for later in the pass (which has been consistent across Smash entries).

So I would temper your expectations for the second pass. The second fighter's pass will likely start the same way, with them starting on a "big" character; and gradually going more niche from there. I would only expect 2-3 heavily discusses/fan favorites to get in.

 

[TriggerX]

Everyone is so critical about Byleth but no one cared about Banjo having variants of Ridley's Bair, Mario's Fair, Duck Hunt's Upair, Ivysaur's Nair, etc...

Most people are aware of that. Even the old Wolf and Sonic shared animations with their neutral air A. Its kind of inevitable when you have so many playable characters in a game.
The problem with Fire Emblem characters is that its way too obvious when they do use tweaked animations from other characters.

I believe people have a right to be critical. Blyleth was just bad timing on Nintendo's part, and at this point, I believe a majority of us would rather see other series represented before seeing another Fire emblem character.

Fire Emblem isn't a bad series, but personally if I wanted more Fire Emblem characters, at this point Id just go play fire emblem.

 

[Nemuresu]

Like, people who say that it "Isn't a good end to the pass" confuse me because while yes this is the end of the first pass, we have another full one coming. Why would there be a need to treat it like a big finale if this is only the halfway point?

Even some of the people I follow have used this argument and it really does seem odd to me.

Two reasons:
1.- Just because you have more content coming doesn't mean you should end the first half in such an anti-climatic fashion.
2.- These two passes weren't offered together.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Soooo...
We're in for a dance of two more years? Dear god... this is going to be a long ride

2 long years...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That was back when Sakurai had Star Fox bias. And Kirby bias. But then he dropped those to get Kid Icarus bias, and even apparently Xenoblade bias. Neither of those lasted long though before the FE bias we know and love took over.

Because that's totally how biases work and not antithetical to the idea of what a bias is.

Good times.

The irony of the matter is that Wolf only got in due to fan demand and being able to reuse animations.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

As of November last year apparently if we take the recording time into account. Also the characters will be released up to December 2021 so it's a rate of three a year.

I mean. With Byleth taken into account it's at least 4 this year.

 

[Goombaic]

I'll make some bold predictions for Season 2 (By order of reveal):
2020

Travis Touchdown
Toxtricity

2021

Dante
Any Tales of Protagonist
Crash Bandicoot
Sylux

This is assuming they'll be basing DLC off games not in Smash yet and if Metroid Prime 4 is released on 2021. Y'all ready for Sylux's comeback to speculation if that happens?

And Mii Costume Predictions:
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Creeper Hat
Eiscue Hat
Ryu Hayabusa
Something SpikeSoft (The dream would be a Monokuma Hat, could be a Shiren costume)
2B

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Most people are aware of that. Even the old Wolf and Sonic shared animations with their neutral air A. Its kind of inevitable when you have so many playable characters in a game.
The problem with Fire Emblem characters is that its way too obvious when they do use tweaked animations from other characters.

I believe people have a right to be critical. Blyleth was just bad timing on Nintendo's part, and at this point, I believe a majority of us would rather see other series represented before seeing another Fire emblem character.

Fire Emblem isn't a bad series, but personally if I wanted more Fire Emblem characters, at this point Id just go play fire emblem.

Please point out every animation Byleth copied, I'm sure you'll find every other DLC character has copied just as much, if not, more

 

[TerminatorLOL]

=
= meh, Not familiar with the series and I hate their gimmick.
=
<
#8 = Maybe like Corrin I'll learn to like them down the line, but this was one of the last characters I wanted to see.

Overall: 5.5/10

 

[cothero]

I didn't liked Byleth reveal, but i'm not hating it either. Let's be honest here, we should have seen it coming. For me, the Joker reveal for MK 11 was the greatest thing that happened today, looks a quite fun character to play.

 

[N3ON]

I present you with the "The dark pit paradox"

Where the characters suckness is inversely proportonial to how much effort and resources have been used on the character, but at the same time as more resources he drains from teh development he sucks more due to being a "wasted slot".


Personally if he was more fleshed out and different i would maybe like teh character a little more, but at the same time would want for that resources to be spent elsewhere, but on the other hand, the least ammount of resources spent on him make me care less about him, but also don't mind him since he is basically a free slot.

That face when you love Dark Pit as a character so his inclusion in smash is incredibly awkward....
View attachment 258168

Sorry, I don't make the rules. I just await my quarterly subscription to "Characters that Suck" e-zine, and more often than not, Dark Pit is on the cover. They should really go easy on him. I mean, it's enough by now.

Guess he just sucks that much. Poor guy.

 

[PeridotGX]

It hasn't even been 12 hours since it's reveal, but here's my (first) fighter's pass 2 prediction.

The template I was using only had five slots, so I had to improvise. If the image isn't working for some reason, my predictions are Ryu Hayabusa, Steve Minecraft, a non-starter SW/SH Pokemon (Urshifu as the most likely), a 1st-Party Promotion (with Waluigi as the most likely), Dante, and Heihachi. Thoughts?

 

[♕Pretty Roger♕]

Why are people surprised that Nintendo got the final slot? They are the ones who make the game, Nintendo totally deserved the last spot and with such a revolutionary game like Three Houses, it was a good way to finish the pass.

Atlus X Square X Microsoft X SNK X Nintendo!

If Byleth had been the first reveal, everyone would have expected only first parties, and there's no reason to randomly put Nintendo in the middle of the lineup.

 

[N3ON]

The irony of the matter is that Wolf only got in due to fan demand and being able to reuse animations.

Mewtwo was one of the more popular requests for Melee, then they put him in and everyone hated him, and some people even sent letters pushing for his removal (at least as Smash lore goes, the validity of that last part remains dubious - but they definitely didn't like him), and then he was gone in Brawl and immediately everyone missed him, and a game later he's the most popular request.

Nowadays people don't even remember there was a time he was one of, if not the, most unpopular character.

 

[Megadoomer]

Star Fox got Wolf and Falco got new moves so clearly Sakurai had such a strong desire for Star Fox he prioritized it over MY favourites.

Kid Icarus had a new game and content from the new game alongside a popular request and *gasp* a clone! For shame, he's lost his rational mind as that's why we didn't get my favourite

I think the bigger problem with Kid Icarus, at least at the time, was the amount of content in general. Seeing as it got more Smash Run enemies than almost any two series combined (the only exception would be if you combined Mario with Zelda, Pokemon, or Kirby - Kid Icarus had more than any other combination), half a dozen items, several new stages, and Snake's Codec gimmick (except it arguably didn't work as well without the contrast between how serious Metal Gear gets and the whimsical nature of Nintendo), Dark Pit was like the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Nowadays people don't even remember there was a time he was one of, if not the, most unpopular character.

I at least know Mewtwo has spent most of its Smash life being competitively mediocre, but not hated outside of that.

 

[h2ogre]

DANTE (Because of the developer video)
TRAVIS (Because the creator is a friend of Sakurai and Kojima and has personally requested his inclusion, Which is how snake got in)
2B (Because Sakurai praised her game after playing it in 2017, which was when the roster and dlc was finalized)
LLOYD (Because he is a popular request in Japan and we are still missing his mii costume)
AKIRA (Because he is from a popular game in japan, plus the whole female/male variant seems like fire emblem character material which Sakurai loves)
BILL RIZER (Because it is popular in Japan, and he will probably get picked to satisfy the doom people. Since sakurai rarely chooses a western character)