Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Wunderwaft]

Remind me who the other leakers claiming Erdrick are? IIRC it's Hitagi and Xenother. Hitagi I won't give the time of day ever since the Katalina thing and I vaguely remember them saying there will be no SMT/Persona rep although I could be wrong there. Xenother claimed that P5S was a Switch port of Persona 5 I think, so their cred's shot for me too.
Honestly the datamine makes me think it could be Slime with the way Brave slides all over the place, and Slime makes more sense as a heavyweight than Erdrick. One's a sentient condensed mass of liquid and the other is a dude in a tunic that looks lighter than Link's.

I kind of agree that it's possible that the Dragon Quest character is Slime, but I wouldn't be so sure about the character datamines since the stats of "Brave" could change later, that was the case for Piranha Plant I believe.

 

[Robdelia]

Erdrick also has a full set of armor as one of his signature costumes, though. He could easily just be wearing that. Besides, those stats aren't the final ones, so we can't make too many assumptions off of them.

So like, are we talking about the DQ1 protag? The DQ3 protag? People made it seem like the DQ3 protag was the one Vergeben was leaking but then I checked the wiki and they're both named Erdrick lmao.

 

[Ovaltine]

So like, are we talking about the DQ1 protag? The DQ3 protag? People made it seem like the DQ3 protag was the one Vergeben was leaking but then I checked the wiki and they're both named Erdrick lmao.

Honestly, I'm not too savvy about DQ, so who knows? It could be, for all we know. I believe DQ3 Erdrick is the 'original', though.

Spoiler: DQXI spoilers.

That is, until Luminary came along as the real 'first Erdrick', I think?

 

[Robdelia]

I kind of agree that it's possible that the Dragon Quest character is Slime, but I wouldn't be so sure about the character datamines since the stats of "Brave" could change later, that was the case for Piranha Plant I believe.

Both Plant and Joker's stats weren't that radically changed from the early versions that were datamined iirc. Plant's still a deceptively small heavyweight, it's just that he went from the heaviest in the game to one of the heaviest iirc. Joker went from top 15 speed to top 17 too, I think. We can at least get a rough outline of what the final stats are imo.

 

[SmasherMaster]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

Really depends of if another Western character got in. If not, then people will believe that the only rule for Smash characters is being owned by a Japanese company.

 

[Gameboi834]

What were Brave's stats again? And didn't the game crash when trying to use Duck Hunt a while back?

Iunno, I really feel like, if I'm remembering this correctly, that Brave is Banjo & Kazooie.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Both Plant and Joker's stats weren't that radically changed from the early versions that were datamined iirc. Plant's still a deceptively small heavyweight, it's just that he went from the heaviest in the game to one of the heaviest iirc. Joker went from top 15 speed to top 17 too, I think. We can at least get a rough outline of what the final stats are imo.

Someone made a speculative outline of Brave's possible playstyle a while ago. I think it was Fatmanonice. Pretty interesting stuff.

EDIT: If memory serves, the stats would fit those of mid-ranged zoners. Nothing too conclusive, but I'd reccomend people to check his theory out.

 

[shinhed-echi]

So like, are we talking about the DQ1 protag? The DQ3 protag? People made it seem like the DQ3 protag was the one Vergeben was leaking but then I checked the wiki and they're both named Erdrick lmao.

Erdrick is the one from DQ3. The one from DQ1 is either referred to as the Hero, or the Descendant (of Erdrick).

Also, who said Slimes are slippery? From the way they move, which is hopping all over the place, they seem to have a lot of traction, meaning they lean more towards being sticky.
If they were slippery, they’d slide when they move in to attack.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Really depends of if another Western character got in. If not, then people will believe that the only rule for Smash characters is being owned by a Japanese company.

I honestly hope it doesn't come to this. It would be obnoxious if this fan rule persisted to the speculation of the next Smash game.

 

[Ovaltine]

What were Brave's stats again? And didn't the game crash when trying to use Duck Hunt a while back?

Iunno, I really feel like, if I'm remembering this correctly, that Brave is Banjo & Kazooie.

Duck Hunt is causing crashes on faulty SD cards, as is Mii Swordfighter. It means nothing.

 

[PeridotGX]

What were Brave's stats again? And didn't the game crash when trying to use Duck Hunt a while back?

Iunno, I really feel like, if I'm remembering this correctly, that Brave is Banjo & Kazooie.

I think it was revealed that was just due to bad SD cards.

But besides that, using Duck Hunt as a base for Banjo would be weird. I feel that Ness would work better for that role. If Duck Hunt were to be a base for anything, I would expect it to be something like Ameterasu or Lycanroc. Quadrupeds.

 

[Exiliify]

Touhou is a big deal in Japan, yes. I am not denying that, but to say that even there, it's bigger than Minecraft, is pretty ridiculous. It doesn't matter the longevity. No, Steve and Reimu aren't locks, and one happening before the other isn't guaranteed. That would be a presumptuous thing to assume. That said, Minecraft is massive. I think you're seriously underselling Minecraft here. It's ridiculously big in Japan, as well, and I'd dare say it is moreso than Touhou by a landslide. Just because something has existed for a longer time doesn't mean that it's more popular and more of an icon.

I have already stated facts why Touhou is extremely popular in Japan in this thread multiple times. I know Touhou is more popular due to their taste in games and Touhou is everywhere there. If you want to believe that Minecraft is more popular than Touhou in Japan is then fine. But just because one game is popular globally doesn’t mean its the most popular game in every country.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, if Brave isn't Erdrick, I am hard-pressed to believe it's any other DQ character, let alone Slime.

So it's either Erdrick or it's from a completely different series.

 

[Robdelia]

Erdrick is the one from DQ3. The one from DQ1 is either referred to as the Hero, or the Descendant (of Erdrick).

Also, who said Slimes are slippery? From the way they move, which is hopping all over the place, they seem to have a lot of traction, meaning they lean more towards being sticky.
If they were slippery, they’d slide when they move in to attack.

There's a minigame in DQ6 where you slide a Slime across a flat surface like curling. https://www.woodus.com/den/games/dq6ds/slippin_slime.php

 

[IsmaR]

Both Plant and Joker's stats weren't that radically changed from the early versions that were datamined iirc. Plant's still a deceptively small heavyweight, it's just that he went from the heaviest in the game to one of the heaviest iirc. Joker went from top 15 speed to top 17 too, I think. We can at least get a rough outline of what the final stats are imo.

The stats were changed multiple times, including in the day 1.0 patch (Pirahna Plant originally had 3 jumps, was slower than Robin & Incineroar, etc.).

Joker was also stated to have a rapid jab, which he obviously doesn't now.

Things can change drastically or just a bit. There's no real way to expect one way or the other when it comes to future fighters.

 

[Robdelia]

The stats were changed multiple times, including in the day 1.0 patch (Pirahna Plant originally had 3 jumps, was slower than Robin & Incineroar, etc.).

Joker was also stated to have a rapid jab, which he obviously doesn't now.

Things can change drastically or just a bit. There's no real way to expect one way or the other when it comes to future fighters.

That is a very good point.

 

[shinhed-echi]

There's a minigame in DQ6 where you slide a Slime across a flat surface like curling. https://www.woodus.com/den/games/dq6ds/slippin_slime.php

Oh how could I forget! I loved that mini game!

... wait a minute.
Isn’t that surface ice?

 

[Robdelia]

Oh how could I forget! I loved that mini game!

... wait a minute.
Isn’t that surface ice?

Now, you see, uh... There's a very logical explanation for this.
Every stage becomes ice-themed when you pick Slime. It's the only logical way to explain the slide. And hey Battlefield with snow would look cool, right?

 

[1.21 Jiggawatts]

Who here believes the Google theory

 

[PeridotGX]

Who here believes the Google theory

I've heard it's been disproven.

 

[1.21 Jiggawatts]

I've heard it's been disproven.

Where did you hear that? I don't want to go and talk about a disproven theory

 

[Deleted member]

Artorias would slide while turning. :V

 

[shinhed-echi]

Now, you see, uh... There's a very logical explanation for this.
Every stage becomes ice-themed when you pick Slime. It's the only logical way to explain the slide. And hey Battlefield with snow would look cool, right?

Well... yup, that sounds right.

Can’t say Rayman will agree tho.

 

[1.21 Jiggawatts]

I do have a slight problem with the Erdrick theory. It is all based off the Brave codename in the files, but you need to remember that Nintendo choose a list of potential DLC character. I believe Sukari (I cant spell his name to save my life) scapped Erdrick for the base roster, and that is why the code name is in the files. It doesn't make sense that his code name would be in the files so early since Sukari choose the DLC after the game came out. The only way he could be in the game as DLC is if Nintendo happened to have him on the list.

 

[Robdelia]

Artorias would slide while turning. :V

I had the dumbest idea that Artorias was Brave and would get revealed as Challenger Pack #2 at E3, and then Banjo gets revealed as #3 after him in the same conference.
Honestly, if that ends up actually happening I think I might cry from laughing.

 

[Ovaltine]

I do have a slight problem with the Erdrick theory. It is all based off the Brave codename in the files, but you need to remember that Nintendo choose a list of potential DLC character. I believe Sukari (I cant spell his name to save my life) scapped Erdrick for the base roster, and that is why the code name is in the files. It doesn't make sense that his code name would be in the files so early since Sukari choose the DLC after the game came out. The only way he could be in the game as DLC is if Nintendo happened to have him on the list.

False. The Brave codename was added in 1.1.0 of the game, I believe. The only initial characters in 1.0 were Plant and 'jack' (Joker).

 

[Deleted member]

I do have a slight problem with the Erdrick theory. It is all based off the Brave codename in the files, but you need to remember that Nintendo choose a list of potential DLC character. I believe Sukari (I cant spell his name to save my life) scapped Erdrick for the base roster, and that is why the code name is in the files. It doesn't make sense that his code name would be in the files so early since Sukari choose the DLC after the game came out. The only way he could be in the game as DLC is if Nintendo happened to have him on the list.

You know that Pushdustin mentioned that Japanese users received an email indicating that Fighters 2 and 3 of the DLC are being worked on right?

This was sent on Smash release date to 🇯🇵 users:

Right now the team and I are working on the DLC. This includes the already announced Joker from Persona 5, fighter #2, fighter #3 and one more thing (translation note: literally なにか, something). Please look forward to the DLC! pic.twitter.com/U8L4tX73NO

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) May 1, 2019

It makes more sense that a few fighters are developed concurrently of each other.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Eh, of Google Theory is legit, I’m getting Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa, 2 childhood favorites.

If it’s not true, then I’m getting Erdrick. One adulthood favorite.

I do feel there’s at least one dlc fighter I’ll lose my mind over.

 

[CureParfait]

So, honest question: what's the current general consensus regarding the Google Theory? Don't know what's everyone's conclusion on it.
Personally, fake or real, I'd say its line-up is fine, I just think the way it's presented (Google ads, seriously?) just makes it not possible for me.

I think it is fake. I highly doubt all 4 of the remaining DLCs would leak in that manner. If it is real I'll be disappointed with the line up since Joker would be the only one I like on it.

 

[Exiliify]

For all we know it could be the princess from the movie Brave.

 

[Deleted member]

I had the dumbest idea that Artorias was Brave and would get revealed as Challenger Pack #2 at E3, and then Banjo gets revealed as #3 after him in the same conference.
Honestly, if that ends up actually happening I think I might cry from laughing.

Even funnier.

Artorias is Brave and revealed at E3....

....and then we get Erdrick right after him just to throw everyone off.

 

[Robdelia]

Even funnier.

Artorias is Brave and revealed at E3....

....and then we get Erdrick right after him just to throw everyone off.

Speaking of Erdrick, I'd laugh really hard if his trailer started out with a Slime picking up a Smash Invitation, only for Erdrick to kill the Slime and pick up the invitation. Although I'm not sure if that's just me being aware that it's easier to laugh than it is to cry.

 

[Exiliify]

Some think its Sora from kingdom hearts. Could it be related to Monster Hunter?

I understand that Erdrick is most likely at the moment based on the leak from data miners. Just throwing out other possibilities

 

[Robdelia]

Some think its Sora from kingdom hearts. Could it be related to Monster Hunter?

I actually do think it's possible that Brave could end up being Monster Hunter. I'd absolutely love if it was Sora, too.
And include Roxas with him as an echo please please pleeeeaaaaase

 

[Exiliify]

Inb4 its another pokemon that is a bird due to the move Brave Bird

SO BRAVE

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I have already stated facts why Touhou is extremely popular in Japan in this thread multiple times. I know Touhou is more popular due to their taste in games and Touhou is everywhere there. If you want to believe that Minecraft is more popular than Touhou in Japan is then fine. But just because one game is popular globally doesn’t mean its the most popular game in every country.

Touhou is super popular in Japan but it's still just an otaku thing you know. It's nothing when you compare with the popularity of Minecraft has established even in Japan tbh. Love from normies is strong.
With that said, I still see Reimu's inclusion in smash. I don't think she'll overcome Steve, but I can totally see Steve and Reimu coming together as the first the king of western indie games and the latter the queen of eastern doujin games. If you need to choose the eastern indie game rep, then that goes to Quote from Cave Story.
I don't think people in Japan consider Touhou as an indie game. Yes, it is technically an indie game but virtually Touhou is all about doujin communities and it's quite different from western indie scenes as far as I can tell. So I never really see Reimu competing with characters like Shovel Knight or Shantae. Touhou's inclusion doesn't represent indie games. What she can truely represent is doujin scenes as a whole. And that comes before the representation of danmaku/bullet hell genre. Because what Touhou is is what doujin is.

 

[Izanagi97]

Hell, his own logic is falling apart at the seams right now imo. He's claiming that Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC just to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for Western audiences (The Game Awards) only for Nintendo to reveal him at E3? Another massive event for primarily Western audiences? That just doesn't add up.

I'm also willing to bet that his excuses of "my sources were wrong" are complete bull****

Both Plant and Joker's stats weren't that radically changed from the early versions that were datamined iirc. Plant's still a deceptively small heavyweight, it's just that he went from the heaviest in the game to one of the heaviest iirc. Joker went from top 15 speed to top 17 too, I think. We can at least get a rough outline of what the final stats are imo.

Plant went from a midweight to a pseudo Super Heavy and Joker went from being between Ridley and Mewtwo in run speed to between Yoshi and Palutena in run speed from what I've read.

 

[Deleted member]

Inb4 its another pokemon that is a bird due to the move Brave Bird

SO BRAVE

Specifically Braviary.

 

[Exiliify]

Touhou is super popular in Japan but it's still just an otaku thing you know. It's nothing when you compare with the popularity of Minecraft has established even in Japan tbh. Love from normies is strong.
With that said, I still see Reimu's inclusion in smash. I don't think she'll overcome Steve, but I can totally see Steve and Reimu coming together as the first the king of western indie games and the latter the queen of eastern doujin games. If you need choose the eastern indie game rep, then that goes to Quote from Cave Story.
I don't think people in Japan consider Touhou as an indie game. Yes, it is technically an indie game but virtually Touhou is all about doujin communities and it's quite different from western indie scenes as far as I can tell. So I never really see Reimu competing with characters like Shovel Knight or Shantae. Touhou's inclusion doesn't represent indie games. What she can truely represent is doujin scenes as a whole. And that comes before the representation of danmaku/bullet hell genre. Because what Touhou is is what doujin is.

You made good points there, well done.

In Japan its definitely more popular to point where it doesn't feel like an indie game anymore. The popularity is mainly due to the amount freedom the fans have when comes to fan made material. Still the amount of popularity is strong enough to get Reimu considered for smash, no matter how big the western fan base is. Hopefully ZUN will allow it since an official game is on the way to the switch. No doubt the front runner for bullet hell rep is Touhou.

One thing i forgot to mention is that since Touhou already has official fighting games with Reimu and Marisa being playable in all 6. So Reimu already has quite of few options available for Sakurai to use for movesets and mechanically be more unique than Steve. Not sure what Steve can bring into smash that would be unique mechanically and as a character. I mean hell, Marisa is popular enough that she could be in smash instead of Reimu, 99% likely it will be Reimu though.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Touhou is super popular in Japan but it's still just an otaku thing you know. It's nothing when you compare with the popularity of Minecraft has established even in Japan tbh. Love from normies is strong.
With that said, I still see Reimu's inclusion in smash. I don't think she'll overcome Steve, but I can totally see Steve and Reimu coming together as the first the king of western indie games and the latter the queen of eastern doujin games. If you need to choose the eastern indie game rep, then that goes to Quote from Cave Story.
I don't think people in Japan consider Touhou as an indie game. Yes, it is technically an indie game but virtually Touhou is all about doujin communities and it's quite different from western indie scenes as far as I can tell. So I never really see Reimu competing with characters like Shovel Knight or Shantae. Touhou's inclusion doesn't represent indie games. What she can truely represent is doujin scenes as a whole. And that comes before the representation of danmaku/bullet hell genre. Because what Touhou is is what doujin is.

Agreed. From the recent shareholder Q&A, Nintendo wants to prioritize appealing to as diverse of a demographic as possible. And what you say is true - while Touhou is niche compared to Minecraft, Reimu's inclusion would definitely be turning a lot of heads that Steve wouldn't even be able to touch. And considering the current demographic shift with the Switch, I'm quite confident that we're getting an otaku-appealing rep, whether it be Reimu, Saber, Miku or Katalina. I'm personally hoping for Reimu.