Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Exiliify]

Don't trust anything on 4chan or 2chan ever

Both sites are known for toxicity and trolling with misleading information

 

[Deleted member]

Don't trust anything on 4chan or 2chan ever

Don't be so naive, some legit stuff happens there, and it isn't even a leak it's a theory on the whole Steve thing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Don't be so naive, some legit stuff happens there, and it isn't even a leak it's a theory on the whole Steve thing.

Yeah, the ESRB leak was first posted there, and someone dug through the archives finding someone stating Piranha Plant was in and it was based off Bowser Jr.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, the ESRB leak was first posted there, and someone dug through the archives finding someone stating Piranha Plant was in and it was based off Bowser Jr.

What's interesting it's that the Piranha Plant leak was in September and revealed Ken and Incineroar as the last newcomers.

 

[Exiliify]

I am not being naive, its general rule of thumb to not take anything on 4chan or 2chan seriously due to how many people mislead others on purpose with leaks and "theories" like these.

Sure some are legit, but majority are not.

What you posted are still claims and rumor that have yet been confirmed and aren't actual theories, and they must always be taken with a grain of salt

 

[Deleted member]

Fair enough, but I'd just like to share it here.

 

[Nemuresu]

Now that we're bringing 4chan. Well someone did leak the 2018 E3 Direct the night before it happened.
Also, this happened last month. Don't know whether it implies Dante is in Smash or if it was talking about Devil May Cry on Switch (since it mentions DMC fan will be happy in June, which is Summer):
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/460042128/#460085984

 

[Idon]

Now that we're bringing 4chan. Well someone did leak the 2018 E3 Direct the night before it happened.
Also, this happened last month. Don't know whether it implies Dante is in Smash or if it was talking about Devil May Cry on Switch (since it mentions DMC fan will be happy in June, which is Summer):
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/460042128/#460085984

Well I don't think most DMC fans are hungering to go back to DMC1.

 

[Deleted member]

Now that we're bringing 4chan. Well someone did leak the 2018 E3 Direct the night before it happened.
Also, this happened last month. Don't know whether it implies Dante is in Smash or if it was talking about Devil May Cry on Switch (since it mentions DMC fan will be happy in June, which is Summer):
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/460042128/#460085984

I just think it means the port and maybe more like DMC3/4 but I'd like to keep expectations low.

 

[Izanagi97]

You guys should check this out

This is pretty interesting

 

[Deleted member]

You guys should check this out

Pretty much is a comment on the current rumors, so nothing new i think, While this might affect Steve if the side of the info from Polar is true, it doesn't make any other character more or less likely.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Uh, no, we should look at 4chan and 2chan leaks carefully. Dismissing them entirely because of the site they were pointed on is being naive. That's not a reason why they're fake. Yes, those sites have some awful stuff. But every site has its awful moments.

There's actual good reasons, like the fact it's an anonymous poster most of the time, or it could be an impersonator. There's details among it that can and will be fishy. For instance, we don't know if the PP leak from that site was real. Do we have any previous datamine evidence that shows he was based upon Bowser Jr. at all? If not, it's fishy, but not impossible. If so, it was likely real.

As someone who has seen a very high amount of 4chan Yugioh OCG Forbidden/Limited lists over the years(up to 4 per year, to the point Konami stopped putting them in Shonen Jump just to eliminate the leaks, so that's at least 20 bare minimum, if not more, and this isn't counting the ERSB leak either, which was legit and originated from 4chan, it proves they are worth looking at alone. Doesn't mean the actual details inside are worth looking at, but the url is meaningless in itself by default. This is a literal case of judging a book by its cover, and you miss a lot of real things this way.

As for that Minecraft thing, it's an interesting theory. It being leak-bait has awful been on my mind. But so has Erdrick for a while now.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I am not being naive, its general rule of thumb to not take anything on 4chan or 2chan seriously due to how many people mislead others on purpose with leaks and "theories" like these.

Sure some are legit, but majority are not.

What you posted are still claims and rumor that have yet been confirmed and aren't actual theories, and they must always be taken with a grain of salt

How can a compilation of facts we already know be misleading? You can not agree with the conclusion through logic and discussion, but going 'lol 4chan fake' when there's nothing unverifiable being said is unreasonable.

 

[Exiliify]

How can a compilation of facts we already know be misleading? You can not agree with the conclusion through logic and discussion, but going 'lol 4chan fake' when there's nothing unverifiable being said is stupid.

Because they aren't facts. I didn't say it was fake because 4chan, i said that it shouldn't be treated as facts because 4chan is known for misleading people with claims like this presenting them as "facts" when majority of the time they aren't.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Because they aren't facts. I didn't say it was fake because 4chan, i said that it shouldn't be treated as facts because 4chan is known for misleading people with claims like this presenting them as "facts" when majority of the time they aren't.

Alright, then I'm telling you, they're facts. This isn't anything that we didn't know. You can check if you want to.

 

[Guynamednelson]

For instance, we don't know if the PP leak from that site was real. Do we have any previous datamine evidence that shows he was based upon Bowser Jr. at all? If not, it's fishy, but not impossible. If so, it was likely real.

Mizumi discovered that PP had some animations with "jr" and "clown" in their names. Of course, this is before we found out how horrible he was.

 

[Exiliify]

Uh, no, we should look at 4chan and 2chan leaks carefully. Dismissing them entirely because of the site they were pointed on is being naive. That's not a reason why they're fake. Yes, those sites have some awful stuff. But every site has its awful moments.

There's actual good reasons, like the fact it's an anonymous poster most of the time, or it could be an impersonator. There's details among it that can and will be fishy. For instance, we don't know if the PP leak from that site was real. Do we have any previous datamine evidence that shows he was based upon Bowser Jr. at all? If not, it's fishy, but not impossible. If so, it was likely real.

As someone who has seen a very high amount of 4chan Yugioh OCG Forbidden/Limited lists over the years(up to 4 per year, to the point Konami stopped putting them in Shonen Jump just to eliminate the leaks, so that's at least 20 bare minimum, if not more, and this isn't counting the ERSB leak either, which was legit and originated from 4chan, it proves they are worth looking at alone. Doesn't mean the actual details inside are worth looking at, but the url is meaningless in itself by default. This is a literal case of judging a book by its cover, and you miss a lot of real things this way.

As for that Minecraft thing, it's an interesting theory. It being leak-bait has awful been on my mind. But so has Erdrick for a while now.

I am not being naive, i was just stating a general fact about 4chan and sites similar to those, i never said everything posted there is fake. That screenshot is still rumors about whether or not the leaks are correct about Steve or Minecraft getting a rep. Yes leaks need to looked CAREFULLY, i am not against this. What i am saying is We do need to be careful because it is 4chan and they still are known to mislead people with anonymous leaks and rumors to rile people up.

Alright, then I'm telling you, they're facts. This isn't anything that we didn't know. You can check if you want to.

Those leaks may be true in terms leaks that did happen. But guess what, leaks are generally nothing more than rumors. Rumors aren't true unless its proven to be a fact. Rumors are also typically made to mislead people as well. I did look up that information in the screenshot. We don't know if Minecraft WILL EVER BE IN SMASH. That is still unconfirmed and we don't know if a Dragon Quest character will be a DLC character as well.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mizumi discovered that PP had some animations with "jr" and "clown" in their names. Of course, this is before we found out how horrible he was.

Yep, sounds like the 4chan leak was likely real then. Thank you.

I am not being naive, i was just stating a general fact about 4chan and sites similar to those, i never said everything posted there is fake. That screenshot is still rumors about whether or not the leaks are correct about Steve or Minecraft getting a rep. Yes leaks need to looked CAREFULLY, i am not against this. What i am saying is We do need to be careful because it is 4chan and they still are known to mislead people with anonymous leaks and rumors to rile people up.

You really misled us in what you said earlier then. Cause that's honestly not what it looked like you meant.

Also, try to edit your posts instead of double posting, please.

How can a compilation of facts we already know be misleading? You can not agree with the conclusion through logic and discussion, but going 'lol 4chan fake' when there's nothing unverifiable being said is stupid.

Might I suggest you try to work on your wording a little? The last bit is a bit harsh and unnecessary.

 

[Exiliify]

You really misled us in what you said earlier then. Cause that's honestly not what it looked like you meant.

Also, try to edit your posts instead of double posting, please.

I try to edit posts before i post them, sorry about not editing that second post

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I try to edit posts before i post them, sorry about not editing that second post

You can also use the button that says +Quote instead of just Reply. In this case, it saves a ton of quotes for you, so you can multi-reply easier.

 

[Exiliify]

Agreed. From the recent shareholder Q&A, Nintendo wants to prioritize appealing to as diverse of a demographic as possible. And what you say is true - while Touhou is niche compared to Minecraft, Reimu's inclusion would definitely be turning a lot of heads that Steve wouldn't even be able to touch. And considering the current demographic shift with the Switch, I'm quite confident that we're getting an otaku-appealing rep, whether it be Reimu, Saber, Miku or Katalina. I'm personally hoping for Reimu.

I agree, the best newcomers for smash at this point are characters that are otaku appealing for character diversity and demographics. I prefer this than more 3rd company reps where we already have reps for those companies. I am hoping for Reimu and i also hope she stays for as base character for future smash titles.

Plus i don't recall any characters in the current roster to be otaku appealing.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I am not being naive, i was just stating a general fact about 4chan and sites similar to those, i never said everything posted there is fake. That screenshot is still rumors about whether or not the leaks are correct about Steve or Minecraft getting a rep. Yes leaks need to looked CAREFULLY, i am not against this. What i am saying is We do need to be careful because it is 4chan and they still are known to mislead people with anonymous leaks and rumors to rile people up.



Those leaks may be true in terms leaks that did happen. But guess what, leaks are generally nothing more than rumors. Rumors aren't true unless its proven to be a fact. Rumors are also typically made to mislead people as well. I did look up that information in the screenshot. We don't know if Minecraft WILL EVER BE IN SMASH. That is still unconfirmed and we don't know if a Dragon Quest character will be a DLC character as well.

That's fine, but before you were calling stuff untrue when it isn't. You don't have to trust the leakers, but it is a fact that the leakers said that.

Might I suggest you try to work on your wording a little? The last bit is a bit harsh and unnecessary.

I didn't mean to come off that way, so apologies if anyone was offended.

 

[Exiliify]

I am done with this debate, its pointless and not going anywhere.

Otaku appealing character discussion anyone?

 

[GoodGrief741]

I am done with this debate, its pointless and not going anywhere.

Otaku appealing character discussion anyone?

Not sure what that's even supposed to mean, what defines an 'otaku appealing character'?

 

[Exiliify]

Not sure what that's even supposed to mean, what defines an 'otaku appealing character'?

Characters more appealing to people that are more into anime, manga, and doujin material. Not referring to anime characters, more so characters that attract the people that are interested in them. Touhou, Fate, Granblue Fantasy, Kantai Collection, Melty Blood, Vocaloids, Idolmaster, Higurashi, Umineko, Arcana Heart are examples of games or works with characters that fall into that category.

I need to make it clear none of these are animes and none of the females in the works i mention above are anime girls. None of their origins come from Anime works. Characters from Touhou, Fate, GranBlue, Kantai, and Vocaloids are popular enough for consideration to get into smash no matter how "niche" they may be. Characters from those works can definitely bring numerous unique mechanics to smash more so than most characters from western games. Putting them in will bring a new demographic and to smash completely different from something like minecraft or any game from the west.

It would also help generate more fans in west, since Western Countries still tend to shun anything that comes from Asia especially Japan.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Characters more appealing to people that are more into anime, manga, and doujin material. Not referring to anime characters, more so characters that attract the people that are interested in them. Touhou, Fate, Granblue Fantasy, Kantai Collection, Melty Blood, Vocaloids, Idolmaster, Higurashi, Umineko, Arcana Heart are examples of games or works with characters that fall into that category.

I need to make it clear none of these are animes and none of the females in the works i mention above are anime girls. None of their origins come from Anime works. Characters from Touhou, Fate, GranBlue, Kantai, and Vocaloids are popular enough for consideration to get into smash no matter how "niche" they may be. Characters from those works can definitely bring numerous unique mechanics to smash more so than most characters from western games. Putting them in will bring a new demographic and to smash completely different from something like minecraft or any game from the west.

It would also help generate more fans in west, since Western Countries still tend to shun anything that comes from Asia especially Japan.

Tbh that seems like a very big generalization of anime and manga fans to me.

 

[Deleted member]

We're not getting a character specifically just to "pander to otakus" or whatever.

 

[Exiliify]

We're not getting a character specifically just to "pander to otakus" or whatever.

I don't see how that is different from "pampering" to western fans for just because they like something more than Japan does. I never stated the would add them to pander to otaku's also those works aren't otaku material made that very clear

Also this is all speculation, anything is possible.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't see how that is different from "pampering" to western fans for just because they like something more than Japan does.

We're not getting characters to "pander" to ANY market.

The characters we'll get will have to do with what they represent and what interesting styles Sakurai can think of with them, not "because we need someone to appeal to some specific market".


And that's not even getting into the fact that "pandering to the western fans" and "pandering to otakus" aren't remotely comparable and is actually insulting to the Japanese fanbase. It's like saying we need characters to appeal to rednecks to refer to western fans.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Tbh that seems like a very big generalization of anime and manga fans to me.

Otaku is a subculture in Japan that would bluntly translate to the "ultra nerd". The best western comparison you would probably get are Trekkies or Comic-con goers. It's a step further down from your typical gaming/anime fan. While they are usually associated with anime and manga, these people have a lot of dedication towards their hobbies, and I'd say their defining medium is the production of amateur/fan produced content, or, Doujinshi. This can be in the form of fanart, fanfiction, music albums, cosplay, fan games, etc.

What you should know is that the Doujinshi community in Japan is tremendous. Comiket, the largest biannual doujinshi convention, has roughly 500,000 - 550,000 attendees. To put things into perspective, that makes it 3-4 times the size of San-Diego Comic con and 7 times larger than the largest PAX. I understand why people would categorize doujin games as "indie", but considering the culture behind the doujinshi industry, it's an entirely different beast altogether.

We're not getting characters to "pander" to ANY market.

The characters we'll get will have to do with what they represent and what interesting styles Sakurai can think of with them, not "because we need someone to appeal to some specific market".


And that's not even getting into the fact that "pandering to the western fans" and "pandering to otakus" aren't remotely comparable and is actually insulting to the Japanese fanbase. It's like saying we need characters to appeal to rednecks to refer to western fans.

Nintendo's investor statements suggests otherwise:

"With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths."
https://www.gamesradar.com/heres-wh...vestor-qanda-new-online-switch-game-and-more/

Looking at new demographics = pandering to new markets. And I do think this is highly indicative of a Western rep as well, but the otaku market is an extremely dedicated group of people and a goldmine for driving sales. I'd say pandering to them is within Nintendo's best interest.

By the way, Nintendo has already started pandering to otaku audiences, with the inclusion of mature and lewd games like Strip Mahjong and Gal*gun 2 on the Switch.

 

[Exiliify]

We're not getting characters to "pander" to ANY market.

The characters we'll get will have to do with what they represent and what interesting styles Sakurai can think of with them, not "because we need someone to appeal to some specific market".


And that's not even getting into the fact that "pandering to the western fans" and "pandering to otakus" aren't remotely comparable and is actually insulting to the Japanese fanbase. It's like saying we need characters to appeal to rednecks to refer to western fans.

Omg, i just want a discussion whether or not people would like that and what they can bring to smash. Not to start a freaking debate just because one group would find them appealing. Is it that so hard here? Apparently it seems like it.

Everything your trying to counter with are things I am not stating at all. I'm not the one misusing "Otakus" here

Mods i apologize it if appears i am getting worked up over nothing. My intention was not to start any debate insulting to a group of people

Otaku is a subculture in Japan that would bluntly translate to the "ultra nerd". The best western comparison you would probably get are Trekkies or Comic-con goers. It's a step further down from your typical gaming/anime fan. While they are typically associated with anime and manga, these people have a lot of dedication towards their hobbies, and I'd say their defining medium is the production of amateur/fan produced content, or, Doujinshi. This can be in the form of fanart, fanfiction, music albums, cosplay, fan games, etc. I understand why people would categorize doujin games as "indie", but considering the culture behind the doujinshi industry, it's an entirely different beast altogether.


Nintendo's investor statements suggests otherwise:

"With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, we asked 'How could we reach not only fans of the Super Smash Bros. series, but also those who had never played it before?' If you look at the demographics of the consumers who purchased each of these titles, Iʼm not convinced weʼve completely overcome these challenges yet. So our aims are to keep working on them this year, to expand sales of these titles to new consumer demographics, and to keep selling these games for a long time, which is one of our strengths."
https://www.gamesradar.com/heres-wh...vestor-qanda-new-online-switch-game-and-more/

Looking at new demographics = pandering to new markets. And I do think this is highly indicative of a Western rep as well, but the otaku market is an extremely dedicated group of people and a goldmine for driving sales. I'd say pandering to them is within Nintendo's best interest.

By the way, Nintendo has already started pandering to otaku audiences, with the inclusion of mature and lewd games like Strip Mahjong and Gal*gun 2 on the Switch.

Thank You for clearing this up. Apparently my choice of words weren't good enough

 

[GoodGrief741]

Otaku is a subculture in Japan that would bluntly translate to the "ultra nerd". The best western comparison you would probably get are Trekkies or Comic-con goers. It's a step further down from your typical gaming/anime fan. While they are typically associated with anime and manga, these people have a lot of dedication towards their hobbies, and I'd say their defining medium is the production of amateur/fan produced content, or, Doujinshi. This can be in the form of fanart, fanfiction, music albums, cosplay, fan games, etc. I understand why people would categorize doujin games as "indie", but considering the culture behind the doujinshi industry, it's an entirely different beast altogether.

So the otaku community and the doujin community are the same thing?

 

[Exiliify]

So the otaku community and the doujin community are the same thing?

No, some are into both some aren't

Otakus can generate doujin material together or on their own. Like Noble said they often overlap due to similar interests.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

So the otaku community and the doujin community are the same thing?

That is difficult to say, because there is no clear distinction on who would classify as "otaku". It's like asking if the gaming community and nerds are the same thing. But yes, there is a significant overlap between the two groups.

 

[Exiliify]

To my knowledge, the demographics for smash hasn't really changed. There are hardly any characters in smash that appeal to otaku/doujin communities, can't speak for everyone in those communities though. Touhou, GranBlue, Fate, and Vocaloids are popular enough that many people japan that not all fans of are into doujin material generated by some of the more hardcore fans. Which is part of the reason why i think it would help smash by bringing in new fans from different communities than what smash is used to

 

[Gameboi834]

Monokuma in Smash, when?!

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

If there is real "otaku otaku" rep for smash other than Reimu, we don't really have options.
Shiori Fujisaki from Tokimeki Memorial.
Sakura Shinguji / Ichiro Ogami from Sakura Wars.
Haruka Amami / Producer from Idolm@ster.
Arcueid Brunestud / Saber from Tsukihime / Fate.
I think those 4 or 5 games plus Touhou are the most influential franchise to the otaku gaming scenes today. Tsukihime and Fate are debatable though.
I don't think game like Granblue Fantasy isn't really otaku thing since it was welcomed by normies from the start. Just look anime doesn't automatically makes it otaku thing especially in Japan you know. Anime girls are literally everywhere and we are so used to it.
Other than those, maybe Neptune from Hyperdimention Neptunia since the franchise doing quite well overseas for some reason.

 

[Exiliify]

If there is real "otaku otaku" rep for smash other than Reimu, we don't really have options.
Shiori Fujisaki from Tokimeki Memorial.
Sakura Shinguji / Ichiro Ogami from Sakura Wars.
Haruka Amami / Producer from Idolm@ster.
Arcueid Brunestud / Saber from Tsukihime / Fate.
I think those 4 or 5 games plus Touhou are the most influential franchise to the otaku gaming scenes today. Tsukihime and Fate are debatable though.
I don't think game like Granblue Fantasy isn't really otaku thing since it was welcomed by normies from the start. Just look anime doesn't automatically makes it otaku thing especially in Japan you know. Anime girls are literally everywhere and we are so used to it.
Other than those, maybe Neptune from Hyperdimention Neptunia since the franchise doing quite well overseas for some reason.

There is Kantai Collection. Azur Lane has been getting more popular recently in Japan too

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

There is Kantai Collection

I can't really think of Kantai Collection rep. Who that'll be?
It did make dozens of followers and it's huge but I don't think it'll overcome Idolm@ster or Granblue Fantasy in terms of significance in the Japanese gaming culture. Even the essence of personification was came from the vein of Fate.

 

[Exiliify]

I can't really think of Kantai Collection rep. Who that'll be?
It did make dozens of followers and it's huge but I don't think it'll overcome Idolm@ster or Granblue Fantasy in terms of significance in the Japanese gaming culture. Even the essence of personification was came from the vein of Fate.

Even i am having difficulty with that one. Yuudachi, Shimakaze, and Kongou have always been some of the more popular ones, really hard to nail down a rep though. Fubuki was the main focus for the anime though