Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[UserKev]

We already have three IPs from Sega though. Sonic, Bayonetta, and Persona.

Still no need for RE. I mean, especially if Sakurai isn't even a fan of the series.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Still no need for RE. I mean, especially if Sakurai isn't even a fan of the series.

What does Sakurai's taste on video games has to do with it?
Nintendo picked the DLC selection, not him. His job is to think of a possible moveset for a character, which shouldn't be hard since he made Piranha Plant and ROB as playable characters before.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Reggie's comments made it seem like the way a third-party character is added is that Nintendo approaches the third party and requests to use their character in Smash, and not the third parties approaching Nintendo for their character in. (Snake might be the exception to this but he was also the first.) So with this in mind, I think the wars between Steve and Banjo's fanbases are a bit uncalled for. It's just generating unnecessary hatred between two games, which is the last thing Sakurai and his team want to happen.
I'm saying this as someone who grew up with Banjo Kazooie and adores that game to death and has championed Banjo for Smash for a while now. If Steve gets in, it does not mean that Microsoft presented both Banjo and Steve to Sakurai and he chose Steve over him. It means that Sakurai figured Steve would be a cool character to have in Smash, and then Nintendo approached Microsoft to see if they could collaborate on him. Frankly, I'd rather Steve be in the game if it means that Microsoft is actually involved, meaning that we could eventually get Banjo. The same way that Sonic led to Bayo and Joker, and how Snake led to the Belmont Boiz.

As someone in a similar situation, I think this is because so much time has passed already. Because Rare has done nothing worthwhile with the IP since they went to Microsoft, and no one knows the full extent of Microsoft and Nintendo's collaboration nor how long it will last, there is a certain sense of "this is Banjo's best chance. If he doesn't get in now...", which hurts, because a Smash appearance, in the eyes of a lot of people, might be the thing that could convince Microsoft and Rare that the main series is still profitable.

Sonic and Snake led to other characters through long-term cooperation between companies. Not sure how long it would take for this to happen for Banjo, especially in a future installment, where "Everyone is here" might not be a thing. Might be a bit too much doom and gloom, but that's a sentiment I feel in the fanbase after all these years since Melee.

Plus Capcom has Ken as an echo and Konami has Richter as an echo so that's 3 characters for them as well.

No doubt Sakurai's not going to turn this into Nintendo vs. Capcom, but at the same time he doesn't seem to be that attentive to representing companies as compared to representing games and/or genres.

Well, as far as we know, there is no arbitrary limit on the number of third-party characters from specific companies. And Nintendo vs. Capcom is long overdue

 

[Idon]

Well, as far as we know, there is no arbitrary limit on the number of third-party characters from specific companies. And Nintendo vs. Capcom is long overdue

It's long overdue, but it's definitely not gonna happen in Smash Bros.

 

[Exiliify]

Banjo makes more sense than Steve or master chief as Microsoft first rep.

 

[3BitSaurus]

It's long overdue, but it's definitely not gonna happen in Smash Bros.

Er, that part was sarcasm. I've seen people use the Pac-Man emoji in other threads to indicate this, so I thought I might do so. lol

 

[Gameboi834]

If I didnt classify it correctly I apologize.

I think most would classify it as an ARPG, or Action RPG.

EDIT: And I know popularity isn't everything, but I did want to point out that, as of late 2018, Minecraft was reporting about 91,000,000 monthly active users. To put that in perspective, that's about 1.2% of the Earth's human population. Of course, this doesn't account for multiple accounts or anything, but still.

 

[Leotsune]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

 

[Idon]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

A little bit surprised, but...

not that surprised.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

It would be divisive... pretty much like anything else, really.

Though... I think at least one of the DLC characters will come from a new company. Even if we get one from Square, Namco and Capcom, that still leaves one slot (don't think Konami is getting more characters). So which other companies are likely? My money would be on either Tecmo or Level-5.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

I can see people getting angry at characters for "stealing" the spot of their picks but that will happen irregardless of who happens.

 

[UserKev]

They're probably the worst criteria I've ever seen in the Smash community, as well. Who the fan base thinks 'deserves' it or not doesn't matter, for it's Nintendo's and Sakurai's bottom line in the end. We've had characters from game series that are multi-million sellers like Mario and Zelda, as well as characters with smaller sales like Bayonetta and Joker. We even have ROB, for goodness sakes. He's more known for being a peripheral than his appearance in his own packaged games (Gyromite and, frick, I don't remember the name of the other one lol).

Whenever people make fan rules about who 'deserves' to be in and who 'belongs' in Smash, Sakurai stomps them out... yet people still don't learn. At this point, outside of probably 4th parties, it's pretty much anyone's game. Likelihood and unlikelihood that we, as the public, perceive is one thing, but saying who does or doesn't get a pass based on arbitrary rules is another.

My dude, if you really are a Geno supporter, this post will age powerfully well if the circumstances regarding the character remain relevant. I guess you don't mind then.

That's my last stance on this topic.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

It'll probably be in a similar fashion to how people reacted to the Phantom Strikers reveal, which might be the case around E3 time.

and after that, people are going to speculate that they're saving the Microsoft rep for last, and if it turns out that there won't be any Gaijin reps, it'll probably be just a giant mix of salt, bewilderment, and excitement depending on who is it (kinda like Injustice 2 when a good portion of fans wanted Spawn and Rorshache but got Hellboy and the Ninja Turtles instead).

 

[Gameboi834]

Gaijin reps

On this note, how many western characters are even playable in Smash? Just Diddy and K. Rool?

 

[Ovaltine]

My dude, if you really are a Geno supporter, this post will age powerfully well if the circumstances regarding the character remain relevant. I guess you don't mind then.

That's my last stance on this topic.

If you mean the fact that it looks like Erdrick is coming and Geno is going to be a Mii costume, yeah, I'm entirely at peace with that. It's tough and it does make me sad, because I love my boy to bits, but what happens, happens. I've said it once and I'll say it again: DQ is so overdue for being in Smash to begin with.

If you meant something else, then, uh... I'm super dense, haha. Forgive me for being a knucklehead.

(Also, I'm a girl, by-the-by.)

 

[Deleted member]

On this note, how many western characters are even playable in Smash? Just Diddy and K. Rool?

Them and Dark Samus.

I know they were all made by Westerners, but they did come from Japanese IPs so it's not like they're the purest Western characters if that makes any sense

 

[thisjustin2001]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

Idk how the Smash community as a whole would react, but for me personally, I'd be astonished if we don't see any Microsoft rep this DLC cycle.

 

[Deleted member]

On this note, how many western characters are even playable in Smash? Just Diddy and K. Rool?

Just them plus Dark Samus but it alongside K. Rool and Diddy are from Japanese IP. Currently Shovel Knight is currently the most notorious western character as he is an AT and Western IP.

I don't think its a pattern that detriments though, but probably is just that Japanese 3rd parties are a bit more likely atm for the looks of it.

 

[Deleted member]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

Something that was never guaranteed despite everyone's insistence that Microsoft playing nice with Nintendo means we're for sure getting Banjo or Steve?

Community would be stupid and get pissy.
Even though it's their own fault for setting expectations based around trivial things. :V

 

[Curious Villager]

Imagine not getting a Microsoft rep, how you think the community would react?

Either bewilderment or indifference, depending on who you ask.

Then again, wasn't the idea of a microsoft character being likely mostly lead through rumours?
I guess there is also the fact that Nintendo and Microsoft have been acting very buddy buddy the past few years or so but still...

 

[PeridotGX]

No no no no no. Undertale will not get in before Touhou. Touhou was inspiration for undertale, Toby Fox said this himself.

oh, just like how Dante got in before Bayonetta?

 

[RileyXY1]

A character does not need to be popular worldwide in order to be DLC. They might be adding in a character from Dragon Quest, a series where the fanbase is almost exclusively Japanese. Reimu can get in if Sakurai and ZUN want her in.

 

[Ovaltine]

A character does not need to be popular worldwide in order to be DLC. They might be adding in a character from Dragon Quest, a series where the fanbase is almost exclusively Japanese. Reimu can get in if Sakurai and ZUN want her in.

Agreed, but frankly, that isn't even the argument here. The argument is whether Reimu is iconic worldwide and more iconic than Minecraft, which... she isn't. Touhou is not at that level. Minecraft is a worldwide phenomenon. It's absolutely, as Lady Captain N Belmont has already stated verbatim, no contest.

 

[Idon]

Agreed, but frankly, that isn't even the argument here. The argument is whether Reimu is iconic worldwide and more iconic than Minecraft, which... she isn't. Touhou is not at that level. Minecraft is a worldwide phenomenon. It's absolutely, as Lady Captain N Belmont has already stated verbatim, no contest.

Frankly, outside of goddamn Tetris or Mario himself, that's just... an impossibility.

 

[RileyXY1]

Agreed, but frankly, that isn't even the argument here. The argument is whether Reimu is iconic worldwide and more iconic than Minecraft, which... she isn't. Touhou is not at that level. Minecraft is a worldwide phenomenon. It's absolutely, as Lady Captain N Belmont has already stated verbatim, no contest.

A character doesn't need to be a worldwide phenomenon in order to get in Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

No one is arguing they have to be to be fair.

The argument is the idea something is bigger than Minecraft in any region.

 

[Nemuresu]

So, honest question: what's the current general consensus regarding the Google Theory? Don't know what's everyone's conclusion on it.
Personally, fake or real, I'd say its line-up is fine, I just think the way it's presented (Google ads, seriously?) just makes it not possible for me.

 

[Deleted member]

So, honest question: what's the current general consensus regarding the Google Theory? Don't know what's everyone's conclusion on it.
Personally, fake or real, I'd say its line-up is fine, I just think the way it's presented (Google ads, seriously?) just makes it not possible for me.

Fake as hell at this point, but lineup is ok.

What I like about it is that it actually made me consider Artorias as an option.

 

[RileyXY1]

I believe that the Google Leak is most likely a fake.

 

[Ovaltine]

A character doesn't need to be a worldwide phenomenon in order to get in Smash.

I never once said that, and that was never the point. We have characters that are FAR from that in this game like Lucas and Corrin. I'm just saying that Touhou is not as iconic as Minecraft, far from it. That's that.

Frankly, outside of goddamn Tetris or Mario himself, that's just... an impossibility.

This pretty much sums it up. Minecraft just surpassed Tetris in sales. Tetris. Its status is legendary, whether you like it or not. Touhou doesn't hold a candle to it. Only stuff like Tetris and Mario could even possibly contest how 'huge' Minecraft has become nowadays. Does that mean Reimu can't be in Smash? No, she has a pretty fair shot. It's just not a great idea to oversell your most wanted's history and legacy. Goodness knows I see it happen with Banjo and Geno all the time (with people saying Geno is an SNES icon and Banjo is just as big as Minecraft, which... what?), and it's kinda frustrating. They're great characters with great games, but legendary status like that? Come on.

As for the Google leak, that isn't even in my consideration as something that could possibly be real. In my mind, it's absolutely, 100% fake, and bluntly... it's pretty silly to me.

 

[Robdelia]

I wish the Google Theory was real but damn is it not looking so good rn. Then again I think Vergeben is wrong too and that the next newcomer will be someone the community didn't expect at all, like Joker, so who knows.

 

[Deleted member]

I wish the Google Theory was real but damn is it not looking so good rn. Then again I think Vergeben is wrong too and that the next newcomer will be someone the community didn't expect at all, like Joker, so who knows.

Artorias would fit the bill if it weren't for the Google Leak brining attention to him. :V

 

[Izanagi97]

So, honest question: what's the current general consensus regarding the Google Theory? Don't know what's everyone's conclusion on it.
Personally, fake or real, I'd say its line-up is fine, I just think the way it's presented (Google ads, seriously?) just makes it not possible for me.

It's probably crap, but if at least 2 characters on that list are revealed, you know it will piss off people on GameFAQs (mostly because a lot of people on the Smash section hate PG after the Grinch thing)

I wish the Google Theory was real but damn is it not looking so good rn. Then again I think Vergeben is wrong too and that the next newcomer will be someone the community didn't expect at all, like Joker, so who knows.

Yeah, Vergeben doesn't have a perfect track record (just look at the the first DLC character prediction and the February Direct stuff) which is also why I find it baffling that people think Erdrick is a lock just cus he said there will be a DQ rep and Erdrick was one of the 3 on that list (that, and the whole Brave = Yuusha = Hero = DQ protag bit even though, again, none of the code names were written in Japanese, only Packu was and that wasn't really a code name anyways)

 

[Ovaltine]

Yeah, Vergeben doesn't have a perfect track record (just look at the the first DLC character prediction and the February Direct stuff) which is also why I find it baffling that people think Erdrick is a lock just cus he said there will be a DQ rep and Erdrick was one of the 3 on that list (that, and the whole Brave = Yuusha = Hero = DQ protag bit even though, again, none of the code names were written in Japanese, only Packu was and that wasn't really a code name anyways)

I don't even think it's Vergeben when it comes to Erdrick. The one I'm looking at here is Tansut, the guy who leaked Cloud for Smash 4 the day before the direct. Allegedly, he knew about Cloud months before and didn't want to spoil him. That makes his credibility a little bit of an eyebrow raiser, the months before thing that can't be proven, but the dude leaked Cloud. Erdrick isn't a lock, but it's impossible to ignore the guy who leaked Cloud saying that Erdrick is in.

(That said, he does use confirmation bias, assuming that stating Erdrick to his source and not being corrected means it is Erdrick, but he also knows they'll have male and female alts. Only Erdrick falls under that umbrella with the Square Seven anyhow.)

 

[Exiliify]

Agreed, but frankly, that isn't even the argument here. The argument is whether Reimu is iconic worldwide and more iconic than Minecraft, which... she isn't. Touhou is not at that level. Minecraft is a worldwide phenomenon. It's absolutely, as Lady Captain N Belmont has already stated verbatim, no contest.

I never said she was more iconic worldwide. I acknowledged that Minecraft is more iconic on global scale. Just because Minecraft is globally popular than Touhou doesn’t ensure Steve will get in before Reimu. Minecraft is popular is because it’s more easily accessible and Touhou wasn’t easy to get at the time Minecraft was released.

You don’t have to be the best selling game to be a global icon. Touhou’s popularity in Japan in unmatched, fan made games, entire convention dedicated to fan works, fan made anime’s with professional level animation, numerous fan art and musical arrangements. The closest rivals aren’t even western games. Sure the western fanbase maybe vocal about wanting Minecraft, but the western fanbases have a tendency to vocal about a lot of things they like and drown out others that want something different.

Steve maybe worldwide phenomenon but reminder in Japan where Nintendo is located, Touhou is a much bigger icon in Japan than Minecraft. I can’t speak for Sakurai but due to how long Touhou has been a cultural phenomenon in Japan longer than Minecraft has existed, I am certain he has considered putting Reimu into smash in the past. The only thing has prevented this is ZUN saying no. The only thing Nintendo and Sakurai need is a green light from ZUN.

 

[Robdelia]

Yeah, Vergeben doesn't have a perfect track record (just look at the the first DLC character prediction and the February Direct stuff) which is also why I find it baffling that people think Erdrick is a lock just cus he said there will be a DQ rep and Erdrick was one of the 3 on that list (that, and the whole Brave = Yuusha = Hero = DQ protag bit even though, again, none of the code names were written in Japanese, only Packu was and that wasn't really a code name anyways)

Hell, his own logic is falling apart at the seams right now imo. He's claiming that Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC just to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for Western audiences (The Game Awards) only for Nintendo to reveal him at E3? Another massive event for primarily Western audiences? That just doesn't add up.

I don't even think it's Vergeben when it comes to Erdrick. The one I'm looking at here is Tansut, the guy who leaked Cloud for Smash 4 the day before the direct. Allegedly, he knew about Cloud months before and didn't want to spoil him. That makes his credibility a little bit of an eyebrow raiser, the months before thing that can't be proven, but the dude leaked Cloud. Erdrick isn't a lock, but it's impossible to ignore the guy who leaked Cloud saying that Erdrick is in.

(That said, he does use confirmation bias, assuming that stating Erdrick to his source and not being corrected means it is Erdrick, but he also knows they'll have male and female alts. Only Erdrick falls under that umbrella with the Square Seven anyhow.)

Tansut's a whole other can of worms and frankly his vague, horoscope-like claim of "Cloud City" a day before the direct makes me think he just got really lucky and made a statement that he could easily work into a variety of potential newcomers, one of them being Cloud.
If you were to ask me, I think Brave is either Slime or someone else entirely. But I'm also starting to doubt the idea of another Square Enix rep more and more as the days go on.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Hell, his own logic is falling apart at the seams right now imo. He's claiming that Nintendo rearranged an entire year of DLC just to avoid revealing Erdrick at an event for Western audiences (The Game Awards) only for Nintendo to reveal him at E3? Another massive event for primarily Western audiences? That just doesn't add up.

Tansut's a whole other can of worms and frankly his vague, horoscope-like claim of "Cloud City" a day before the direct makes me think he just got really lucky and made a statement that he could easily work into a variety of potential newcomers, one of them being Cloud.
If you were to ask me, I think Brave is either Slime or someone else entirely. But I'm also starting to doubt the idea of another Square Enix rep more and more as the days go on.

While I don't think Tansut should be the end be all of who gets in(since his only track record is vaguely leaking Cloud), I do think it's worth looking into at least. All the leakers suddenly saying it's Erdrick + the "Brave" datamine is what led me to believe that Erdrick is the Square Enix rep. At this point I'm confident that the Square Enix rep is a Dragon Quest character, whether it's Erdrick or Slime.

 

[Ovaltine]

I never said she was more iconic worldwide. I acknowledged that Minecraft is more iconic on global scale. Just because Minecraft is globally popular than Touhou doesn’t ensure Steve will get in before Reimu. Minecraft is popular is because it’s more easily accessible and Touhou wasn’t easy to get at the time Minecraft was released.

You don’t have to be the best selling game to be a global icon. Touhou’s popularity in Japan in unmatched, fan made games, entire convention dedicated to fan works, fan made anime’s with professional level animation, numerous fan art and musical arrangements. The closest rivals aren’t even western games. Sure the western fanbase maybe vocal about wanting Minecraft, but the western fanbases have a tendency to vocal about a lot of things they like and drown out others that want something different.

Steve maybe worldwide phenomenon but reminder in Japan where Nintendo is located, Touhou is a much bigger icon in Japan than Minecraft. I can’t speak for Sakurai but due to how long Touhou has been a cultural phenomenon in Japan longer than Minecraft has existed, I am certain he has considered putting Reimu into smash in the past. The only thing has prevented this is ZUN saying no. The only thing Nintendo and Sakurai need is a green light from ZUN.

Touhou is a big deal in Japan, yes. I am not denying that, but to say that even there, it's bigger than Minecraft, is pretty ridiculous. It doesn't matter the longevity. No, Steve and Reimu aren't locks, and one happening before the other isn't guaranteed. That would be a presumptuous thing to assume. That said, Minecraft is massive. I think you're seriously underselling Minecraft here. It's ridiculously big in Japan, as well, and I'd dare say it is moreso than Touhou by a landslide. Just because something has existed for a longer time doesn't mean that it's more popular and more of an icon.

 

[Robdelia]

While I don't think Tansut should be the end be all of who gets in(since his only track record is vaguely leaking Cloud), I do think it's worth looking into at least. All the leakers suddenly saying it's Erdrick + the "Brave" datamine is what led me to believe that Erdrick is the Square Enix rep. At this point I'm confident that the Square Enix rep is a Dragon Quest character, whether it's Erdrick or Slime.

Remind me who the other leakers claiming Erdrick are? IIRC it's Hitagi and Xenother. Hitagi I won't give the time of day ever since the Katalina thing and I vaguely remember them saying there will be no SMT/Persona rep although I could be wrong there. Xenother claimed that P5S was a Switch port of Persona 5 I think, so their cred's shot for me too.
Honestly the datamine makes me think it could be Slime with the way Brave slides all over the place, and Slime makes more sense as a heavyweight than Erdrick. One's a sentient condensed mass of liquid and the other is a dude in a tunic that looks lighter than Link's.

 

[Ovaltine]

Remind me who the other leakers claiming Erdrick are? IIRC it's Hitagi and Xenother. Hitagi I won't give the time of day ever since the Katalina thing and I vaguely remember them saying there will be no SMT/Persona rep although I could be wrong there. Xenother claimed that P5S was a Switch port of Persona 5 I think, so their cred's shot for me too.
Honestly the datamine makes me think it could be Slime with the way Brave slides all over the place, and Slime makes more sense as a heavyweight than Erdrick. One's a sentient condensed mass of liquid and the other is a dude in a tunic that looks lighter than Link's.

Erdrick also has a full set of armor as one of his signature costumes, though. He could easily just be wearing that. Besides, those stats aren't the final ones, so we can't make too many assumptions off of them.