Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[MasterOfKnees]

Also, how dare I express my disappointment. We can be disappointed, but apparently if we talk about it then that's a big no-no. I am so entitled for saying that I hate Assist Trophies and voicing my reason why. Forgive me internet for I have sin by talking about my disappoints. I should know that only positivity is allowed to be talked about multiple times to the point of redundancy.

Honestly, it's not that you express disappointment that causes a stir, it's how you do it. I usually advocate for people being allowed to be disappointed as there are a lot of very defensive members on this site, and I actually agree with some of your points (Sakurai's intentions shouldn't dictate one's opinion), but you don't come across as if you actually want to listen to the opposite side. When you lead with an aggressive tone, you invite the people that disagree with you to also take an aggressive stance, and it just becomes a big old mess.

 

[Schnee117]

Honestly, it's not that you express disappointment that causes a stir, it's how you do it. I usually advocate for people being allowed to be disappointed as there are a lot of very defensive members on this site, and I actually agree with some of your points (Sakurai's intentions shouldn't dictate one's opinion), but you don't come across as if you actually want to listen to the opposite side. When you lead with an aggressive tone, you invite the people that disagree with you to also take an aggressive stance, and it just becomes a big old mess.

Also this happens almost all the time.
It's obnoxious.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Being playable or not in Smash Bros has little to no impact in the status of a series, it can create awareness of the characters but if that's not being followed by any effort of promoting and developing good new entries then its all for naught.

That was my point earlier except you did a better job than me, and on that note, I kinda wish we got a Duck Hunt Uprising in the making after Smash 4 was made, but alas.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Wha-what was that? What kind of logic is that? What, it's people fault for being disappointed that their character is an Assist Trophy because they had hope that they playable this time around? Cool. You know what, you're right. It's everyone's fault. People got to stop hoping for their characters to get. People just got to stop having investment so stop being disappointed when their character gets turn into an Assist Trophy or Mii Costume.

People are allowed to get invested in anyone they want. They just do this neat trick called "having tempered expectations", where they give characters non-100% chances of getting in. Ridley and K. Rool failed to show up even when people expected them the most, while curveballs like WFT and Duck Hunt can always take their space. Betting 100% on a character's inclusion almost never works out.

Everyone here in this thread had hoped for newcomers that they didn't get, but fourteen months is a long, long time to continue complaining about it.

Also you're right. Smash Bros isn't a popularity contest. It's not like Nintendo ever had some kind of online activity that asked for people what favorite character wanted to see. It's not as if they made a BALLOT and asked people to submit their characters and why they think they would be good additions to Smash Bros.

The ballot wasn't originally intended to be a popularity contest, but a disguise to justify adding Bayonetta. And yes, Smash is not judged by sheer popularity, judging by even a cursory comparison between internet polls and the actual roster.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So don't know if anyone heard but there's some insider info regarding a rumor Jill Valentine was meant to be in Base roster until being pushed to DLC but Capcom wasn't happy with that and removed her entirely.

Could explain the RE spirits...

Where did you found that?

 

[Deleted member]

We've gotten plenty of characters from that ballot the **** do you mean? Counting veterans and newcomers who were suggested to be ballot related, we have

There's also how the ballot was 5 years ago, a lot of opinions can change, more games can have come out, the demograph for the ballot may have played games they hadn't prior to the point their requests change drastically

Don’t forget &

 

[Flyboy]

So, to change the subject, here's something fun. Last night, through a combination of Bandai-Namco's Happy 2020 image and some fun goofing around and ****posting the topic of Don-chan in Smash came up and was generally agreed upon as a fun, good idea.

I know KatKit is working on a moveset for him, and I'm pretty excited to see that! I don't have Drum'n'Fun yet but I definitely want to get it now. The music is of course excellent and the aesthetic is so cute and bright! We also know that Taiko no Tatsujin has crossed over with Nintendo plenty of times (with Inkling and Kirby being in the latest Switch game) but the other week I was at the local arcade and they had the newest version of Mario Kart Arcade GP which had Don-Chan as a playable racer and an adorable Taiko-themed course.

Anyway, I can't believe all it took was some goofing around and now I'm invested in the idea of Don-Chan in Smash. This is the song I'd want in his trailer:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...I kinda wish we got a Duck Hunt Uprising in the making after Smash 4 was made, but alas.

What's there to do with the game though? In this day and age a game like Duck Hunt would be treated like a simple minigame. In fact it already has. Look at Wii Play.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So don't know if anyone heard but there's some insider info regarding a rumor Jill Valentine was meant to be in Base roster until being pushed to DLC but Capcom wasn't happy with that and removed her entirely.

Could explain the RE spirits...

Considering Capcom's cheaper than a 5 dollar prostitute and INCREDIBLY lax with their properties the mere suggestion that Capcom was unhappy should be enough to dismiss this ridiculous idea

 

[Metal Shop X]

What's there to do with the game though? In this day and age a game like Duck Hunt would be treated like a simple minigame. In fact it already has. Look at Wii Play.

Idk tbh, I just want someone take the franchise and go crazy with it. Like how Uprising took what was before, which was pretty simple (if bigger than DH, yes), and EXPANDED the world in universe in more way than one. (Aliens? Star Fox shooting? In my Kid Icarus game? Who would have thought that decades ago?)

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

Considering Capcom's cheaper than a 5 dollar prostitute and INCREDIBLY lax with their properties the mere suggestion that Capcom was unhappy should be enough to dismiss this ridiculous idea

...the hell was that analogy??? And if i remember correctly it wasn't Capcom's fault

 

[Ramen Tengoku]

So don't know if anyone heard but there's some insider info regarding a rumor Jill Valentine was meant to be in Base roster until being pushed to DLC but Capcom wasn't happy with that and removed her entirely.

Could explain the RE spirits...

you mind defining "insider" for us?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Don’t forget &

I'm pretty sure a couple of these were guaranteed without the ballot

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Idk tbh, I just want someone take the franchise and go crazy with it. Like how Uprising took what was before, which was pretty simple (if bigger than DH, yes), and EXPANDED the world in universe in more way than one. (Aliens? Star Fox shooting? In my Kid Icarus game? Who would have thought that decades ago?)

I'd go for that. I doubt it would happen though, Kid Icarus uprising had three games and the entirety of Greek mythology to pull from while Duck Hunt just has a minigame in which the player hunts ducks.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

...the hell was that analogy??? And if i remember correctly it wasn't Capcom's fault

To emphasize just how lax Capcom is. The Capcom we all know and have mixed opinions on NEVER go "We don't like that, get rid of it". Hell, they even gave a Mega Man x Street Fighter fangame proper funding

 

[CapitaineCrash]

So, to change the subject, here's something fun. Last night, through a combination of Bandai-Namco's Happy 2020 image and some fun goofing around and ****posting the topic of Don-chan in Smash came up and was generally agreed upon as a fun, good idea.

I know KatKit is working on a moveset for him, and I'm pretty excited to see that! I don't have Drum'n'Fun yet but I definitely want to get it now. The music is of course excellent and the aesthetic is so cute and bright! We also know that Taiko no Tatsujin has crossed over with Nintendo plenty of times (with Inkling and Kirby being in the latest Switch game) but the other week I was at the local arcade and they had the newest version of Mario Kart Arcade GP which had Don-Chan as a playable racer and an adorable Taiko-themed course.

Anyway, I can't believe all it took was some goofing around and now I'm invested in the idea of Don-Chan in Smash. This is the song I'd want in his trailer:

Honestly I like the idea, but in some way I would be sad to see Nintendo using a third party rhythm games before using their own for a playable character.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Step to more in the future? What future? Have seen these Assist Trophy characters? Have you seen that only three of them ever got upgraded, and two of them were basically clones? Have seen how many of these series are just dead? Have you seen that there is no more support for many of these characters?

Guess what, a lot people do what you say and a lot of people don't. Like a lot of people. But I guess those people don't matter.

"A lot of people" AKA every lazy ass high school student's defense to a claim that they wrote in a paper without actually doing research or the work to bring up relevant citations to build their argument. You have nothing to back up your claims and you can't even establish decent support around your nuclear option against "things I don't like." Some anecdotal evidence of a couple of other people complaining about X, Y, and Z isn't anything to base your arguments off of, and neither are fan led polls on extremely specific websites some all holy "indicator of true popularity."

Even when people point out someone like Dark Samus was added because of requests, you immediately attempt to discredit that ideology, so any pretense of operating on good faith in the name of the ballot goes out the window with your own selfish behavior in that regard because Dark Samus clearly doesn't fit your own narrative.

You deal in hyperbole, all or nothing ultimatums, and are actively intransigent any time someone brings up any number of completely valid defenses of assist trophies. Any little hint of criticism to your extreme position results in you essentially calling everyone mindless consumers that are "apologizing for Sakurai" and you go out of your way to criticize people for appreciating the work Sakurai put into Assist Trophies. And worse yet, you bring up this exact same damn conversation weekly.

This is just embarrassing at this point and its unpleasant to be around. I'm generally not one to block people, but Wynn, this is beyond ****ing ridiculous at this point and I think most of us are just done with it.

 

[Flyboy]

Honestly I like the idea, but in some way I would be sad to see Nintendo using a third party rhythm games before using their own for a playable character.

If it helps soften the blow, from what I've seen Nintendo worked with them on the Switch version and the multiplayer mini-games included are very heavily Rhythm Heaven-adjacent even including the art. I understand, though.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If it helps soften the blow, from what I've seen Nintendo worked with them on the Switch version and the multiplayer mini-games included are very heavily Rhythm Heaven-adjacent even including the art. I understand, though.

And the Switch version has Kamen Rider Build's OP on the international version. The gay bunny scientist man is FP5 fellas, featuring music from the dude who gave us the Ghost in the Shell OSTs

 

[Ace C.R.O.S.S.]

To emphasize just how lax Capcom is. The Capcom we all know and have mixed opinions on NEVER go "We don't like that, get rid of it". Hell, they even gave a Mega Man x Street Fighter fangame proper funding

Eh, yeah, but that wasn't the point. I meant that something like CERO could be guilty of that

 

[Flyboy]

And the Switch version has Kamen Rider Build's OP on the international version. The gay bunny scientist man is FP5 fellas, featuring music from the dude who gave us the Ghost in the Shell OSTs

We already got Lupinranger vs. Patoranger in Smash, it's a sign!!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Eh, yeah, but that wasn't the point. I meant that something like CERO could be guilty of that

We know for a fact guns are very much allowed and as seen in the past, you can get RE monsters without gore to lower age ratings. CERO isn't a problem for RE in Smash

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I believe 11:00 AM Eastern Time is typically the latest a Direct ever gets announced on a week day, right?

If so, looks like we don't have anything for today...

 

[SKX31]

So Kid Icarus' problem is Nintendo being dumbasses and choosing not to bring it back after success
So F Zero's problem is Nintendo not willing to use Captain Falcon outside of Smash
So Star Fox's problem is Nintendo refusing to just make a regular Star Fox game like the entire fandom has asked to

I can't link this video enough. It handles both F-Zero and StarFox, and the video starts at the relevant time once clicked:

Miyamoto's an amazing producer and designer, but there lies his weakness too - he doesn't see value in a game unless there are new ways to play. And he's far from alone in thinking along similar lines: Nintendo's organizational culture is like that. Do note that I vastly prefer Nintendo's culture over lets say EA's, Tencent's or Activision's by a mile, warts and all (generally speaking).

I believe 11:00 AM Eastern Time is typically the latest a Direct ever gets announced on a week day, right?

If so, looks like we don't have anything for today...

Ah, so it's time to go back to speculatin' as normal then? All right.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

If I'm correct most of the recent direct where announced Tuesday, so I'm not surprised that there's nothing today.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I can't wait to see us go until February without announcements. It kind of makes sense the more I think about it too. Early December had lots of weird little announcements from Nintendo regarding game updates such as Link in Super Mario Maker 2 and we're seeing some minor stuff come and go right now too like a Splatoon 2 balance update and Tokyo Mirage Sessions will be out shortly.

Plus, at The Game Awards we had trailers for MUA3 X-Men DLC, No More Heroes III, and an announcement of Bravely Default 2. Holding off to February lets them get more stuff together for a big presentation as well.

Basically, Smash is the only thing that ever really pointed towards a January Direct I feel like.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I can't wait to see us go until February without announcements. It kind of makes sense the more I think about it too. Early December had lots of weird little announcements from Nintendo regarding game updates such as Link in Super Mario Maker 2 and we're seeing some minor stuff come and go right now too like a Splatoon 2 balance update and Tokyo Mirage Sessions will be out shortly.

Plus, at The Game Awards we had trailers for MUA3 X-Men DLC, No More Heroes III, and an announcement of Bravely Default 2. Holding off to February lets them get more stuff together for a big presentation as well.

Basically, Smash is the only thing that ever really pointed towards a January Direct I feel like.

Nintendo's marketing strategy for the past few years has generally been to show off new titles early in the year iirc so it adds up

 

[Cosmic77]

I can't wait to see us go until February without announcements. It kind of makes sense the more I think about it too. Early December had lots of weird little announcements from Nintendo regarding game updates such as Link in Super Mario Maker 2 and we're seeing some minor stuff come and go right now too like a Splatoon 2 balance update and Tokyo Mirage Sessions will be out shortly.

Plus, at The Game Awards we had trailers for MUA3 X-Men DLC, No More Heroes III, and an announcement of Bravely Default 2. Holding off to February lets them get more stuff together for a big presentation as well.

Basically, Smash is the only thing that ever really pointed towards a January Direct I feel like.

That's impossible. Anything that requires us waiting longer for the next character would never happen. I mean, we were spot-on with the VGAs and Smash, right?

 

[Flyboy]

Just remembered one more thing in Don-Chan's favor: Taiko's artist is Yoko Yukiko, who is the wife of Yoko Taro, and personally I just think it'd be cute if 2B and Don-Chan both got to be in the same game especially since she's drawn Nier and Drakengard art in her style and it's adorable.

 

[wynn728]

Honestly, it's not that you express disappointment that causes a stir, it's how you do it. I usually advocate for people being allowed to be disappointed as there are a lot of very defensive members on this site, and I actually agree with some of your points (Sakurai's intentions shouldn't dictate one's opinion), but you don't come across as if you actually want to listen to the opposite side. When you lead with an aggressive tone, you invite the people that disagree with you to also take an aggressive stance, and it just becomes a big old mess.

I stated that I don't Assist Trophies, then I got comments like "would you rather have no representation" and "when will fans learn to appreciate what they got." I stated how I felt and instead of just letting me have my opinion people got to tell me how I'm basically "entitled for thinking that" and "Sakurai views it this way so I shouldn't see it as a bad thing." So yeah, when I keep getting replies like this my tone is going to seem aggressive because people are basically saying that I should not have this kind of opinion and I'm wrong for voicing it.

You guys like Assist Trophy, good for you. You're not wrong for thinking that. More to all of you who can find enjoyment out of that.
I don't like them. I don't state my dislike to change anyone's mind, I state it because it's my bloody opinion and bring it up when becomes relevant.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Just remembered one more thing in Don-Chan's favor: Taiko's artist is Yoko Yukiko, who is the wife of Yoko Taro, and personally I just think it'd be cute if 2B and Don-Chan both got to be in the same game especially since she's drawn Nier and Drakengard art in her style and it's adorable.

The sheer contrast between the two is ****ing me up. It's literally "Post 9-11 America is filled with genocidal warmongers and it's dangerously inhumane" and "bang drummy dadon!"

 

[Izanagi97]

Welp, since it's morning where I'm at, I wonder if today will have any interesting news related to Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Is there a chance they can still announce something this evening?

 

[MooMew64]

Still leaning towards February.

Then it's gonna be Gooigi time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Is there a chance they can still announce something this evening?

Nintendo Direct announcements have been very consistent in terms of the times of announcement, so our next best shot is hearing it in about 20 hours or so

 

[SneakyLink]

Is there a chance they can still announce something this evening?

They did announce Terry’s showcase in the evening so it is plausible.

 

[wynn728]

"A lot of people" AKA every lazy ass high school student's defense to a claim that they wrote in a paper without actually doing research or the work to bring up relevant citations to build their argument. You have nothing to back up your claims and you can't even establish decent support around your nuclear option against "things I don't like." Some anecdotal evidence of a couple of other people complaining about X, Y, and Z isn't anything to base your arguments off of, and neither are fan led polls on extremely specific websites some all holy "indicator of true popularity."

You deal in hyperbole, all or nothing ultimatums, and are actively intransigent any time someone brings up any number of completely valid defenses of assist trophies. Any little hint of criticism to your extreme position results in you essentially calling everyone mindless consumers that are "apologizing for Sakurai" and you go out of your way to criticize people for appreciating the work Sakurai put into Assist Trophies. And worse yet, you bring up this exact same damn conversation weekly.

This is just embarrassing at this point and its unpleasant to be around. I'm generally not one to block people, but Wynn, this is beyond ****ing ridiculous at this point and I think most of us are just done with it.

Okay, how about you give me the citation that a lot of people are playing with items and Assist Trophies on. If it's okay for someone to say "a lot of people like to play with items on" without citing anything why is such a sin to say "a lot of people don't like to play with items on"?

Also if people are replying to me saying "Sakurai view Assist Trophies as" or "Sakuai's intentions were" I'm going to call you out because your opinion is based off of Sakurai's mentality instead of your own. You're using the the creators comments to justify why you should like it and why people are wrong for disliking it. That's like saying The Game of Thrones writers tried really hard so people shouldn't criticize the last season.

But I get it now. If it's about preaching positivity don't need to defend crap, you can be blind as much as you want. But if state something you dislike which could be consider negative then boy howdy you need to prepare for a massive defense because people are going keep telling you that opinion is super wrong and should be ashamed about it.

 

[Ura]

IIRC, Direct's are always announced Tuesday's at 10AM ET. So I think we're good.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

IIRC, Direct's are always announced Tuesday's at 10AM ET. So I think we're good.

Can you say that in Europe?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Okay, how about you give me the citation that a lot of people are playing with items and Assist Trophies on. If it's okay for someone to say "a lot of people like to play with items on"

Even with items on, the way these characters are represented can still be considered poor. A lot of Brawl ATs still have relics of being on a system with limited RAM, even the ones that had to be remade because of their absence from 4.