Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Flyboy]

Who the crap voted for Dark Samus for the Fighter Ballot? Was Dark Samus this extremely high requested character that nobody ever mentioned?

I mean, yeah, it's been stated in interviews that she made enough of a dent in the ballot to be considered, and she was then made an echo to add representation to a popular series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Who the crap voted for Dark Samus for the Fighter Ballot? Was Dark Samus this extremely high requested character that nobody ever mentioned? Also don't kid yourself saying Cloud was put in because of the Ballot. We have good documentation that they for the final character they looked at the ballot after two weeks to select the character. It takes a long time to negotiate rights for characters so Cloud was most likely planned before they even announce the ballot.

But that comment of the ballot I said wasn't in a reference to what characters got in. More in a response how they were saying that Smash Bros isn't suppose to be viewed as a popularity contest and how when Nintendo themselves literally hold a popularity contest by having a ballot.

Dark Samus and Chrom were both showcased at the same time not just cause they're both echoes, but because they were both stated to be popular requests.

Also Sakurai still said Final Fantasy was an overall high requested addition, and considering the size of Final Fantasy, it's hard to imagine it was a lie that the franchise scored high with the poster boy scoring highest

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We've gotten plenty of characters from that ballot the **** do you mean? Counting veterans and newcomers who were suggested to be ballot related, we have

There's also how the ballot was 5 years ago, a lot of opinions can change, more games can have come out, the demograph for the ballot may have played games they hadn't prior to the point their requests change drastically

You're forgetting one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

You're forgetting one.

I didn't forget, the mobile version of this site is trash about emoticons which is how Belmont somehow didn't get added to my list there

 

[wynn728]

I mean, yeah, it's been stated in interviews that she made enough of a dent in the ballot to be considered, and she was then made an echo to add representation to a popular series.

It's unimaginable for anyone to fluff up PR talk. Just like how everyone should take Sakurai's words serious when he said that there would be no more story cutscenes because people uploaded them onto YouTube and it definitely wasn't because they were working on two different systems which double their work load with so much limitations.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I didn't forget, the mobile version of this site is trash about emoticons which is how Belmont somehow didn't get added to my list there

I didn't know you were on the phone. Sorry.

 

[Calamitas]

No, it did rather well. The other Rainfall titles didn't do well though.

Everybody please press F to pay respects to The Last Story. Poor game didn't even get a rerelease on the Wii U eShop because of its online mode. Which is a shame, because I'd honestly love it if that game got the HD remake treatment as well.

Oh and Pandora's Tower was also kinda neat, I guess

 

[wynn728]

Sakurai literally said Dark Samus was highly requested in the west.

The support was definitely there online, too. Metroid fans who assumed Ridley could never happen mostly went to Dark Samus as their second option if Ridley was their first.

I some facts here. Out of so many many fan polls, youtube videos, online campaign, I can't find jack crap support for Dark Samus. I feel like Sakurai can come up and say that Iori Yagami was really highly requested and people will believe that. Every other character I believe had great support, but not Dark Samus.

 

[Metal Shop X]

That's not how game development works.



Then get literally anyone else, they don't need Sakurai to make Kid Icarus.



No, it did rather well. The other Rainfall titles didn't do well though.

1) Fair enough

2) Maybe they don't need Sakurai, but it's thanks to his direction that Uprising was the way it is . Another director isn't a bad idea necessarely, but I imagine you can't just throw anyone into the director chair for a new KI game and hope it came out well. Fan expectation, especially for small franchise, are a pretty important things to consider, and I haven't heard someone at Nintendo who would be PERFECT for the role.

3) If that's true, what's the problem with GameStop that I heard around XB1?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Anyway allow me to cry about Nintendo letting W101 die even when I bought 3 copies

 

[MooMew64]

No, that's literally what you have been saying. You've been using Sakurai's words and his view to defend these Assist Trophies and saying that I should appreciate them because Sakurai viewed them this way.

You said "An acknowledgedment that Sakurai views these franchises as important enough and interesting enough to him to get anything at all"
and "I like how people disregard how Sakurai views ATs as just as valuable as any other part of the game and only includes them as a way of trying to make people happy"
You're using Sakurai's viewpoints and intention to say that it's wrong to not be happy with Assist Trophies because of what he originally thought of it. That we should appreciate their inclusion because Sakurai put in the work to make people happy. Is Sakurai's word law? Are we wrong to disagree to say that his intentions didn't go exactly as he originally hope? Should we change how we view Assist Trophies because of how Sakurai views them?

Being disappointed is one thing. Ranting and complaining is where the entitlement creeps in.

Saying "I wish I got NOTHING instead!" is kind of childish. There is no guarantee that any of the ATs would make it through DLC, especially when you consider outside of the hardcore Nintendo fan bubble, hardly anyone even knows what some of these franchises even are, unfortunately.

Also, as others said, pretending that we didn't get anyone from the ballot when we got K. Rool is silly.

 

[Schnee117]

3) If that's true, what's the problem with GameStop that I heard around XB1?

It was exclusive to Gamestop and Gamestop were being super scummy with selling new restocked copies as "used copies" for $90

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It was exclusive to Gamestop and Gamestop were being super scummy with selling new restocked copies as "used copies" for $90

Then the Shulk amiibo became a Gamestop exclusive too, and amiibo as a whole got hella expensive and hard to find due to Nintendo embracing artificial scarcity. Like poetry

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

Welp seems like we ain't getting any announcement today
At what time is the Switch update today btw?

 

[Flyboy]

It's unimaginable for anyone to fluff up PR talk. Just like how everyone should take Sakurai's words serious when he said that there would be no more story cutscenes because people uploaded them onto YouTube and it definitely wasn't because they were working on two different systems which double their work load with so much limitations.

If we don't trust the words of the actual guy making the game that several characters were popular (and when you actively look and trends during the time, his words check out) we have zero leg to stand on in any kind of discussion or debate. It just boils down to "nuh-uh!! nuh-uh!!!" at that point. There's literally no point in continuing this discussion if you're going to dismiss actual dev words as "PR talk" because they didn't cite ****ing statistics or whatever.

 

[Deleted member]

I some facts here. Out of so many many fan polls, youtube videos, online campaign, I can't find jack crap support for Dark Samus. I feel like Sakurai can come up and say that Iori Yagami was really highly requested and people will believe that. Every other character I believe had great support, but not Dark Samus.

Burden of proof is on you kid. If you wanna actually prove Dark Samus was not highly requested, why don't you pull up the facts and prove it.

 

[Metal Shop X]

It was exclusive to Gamestop and Gamestop were being super scummy with selling new restocked copies as "used copies" for $90

Thanks for clarifying that.

Tho, did Shulk inclusion in Smash 4 really didn't help Xenoblade in the slightest? I swear I remember lots of peoples saying "I got into Xenoblade thanks to getting in". I know my limited point of views isn't the absolute truth because, well, my memories ain't the best at time, but still, that's weird...

*insert funny apprioate gif here that I can't put because of WoodBoards*

 

[wynn728]

Only no.....and I think you are taking this too personally. No one is saying "agree with everything that Sakurai does". I don't think anyone has ever said that and plenty of people disagree with plenty of Sakurai's choices throughout the Smash series. However, it is subjective, not objective (except maybe tripping). The only one who seems to think this is you and it's making you look quite frankly, ridiculous. Not everything in the world can make it into a game because of lack of resources and budget. You make do with what you have.

If being Assist Trophy is a death sentence for representation, then damn I can only imagine them not being in the game at all would do. Some franchises in the industry would love simply to be Spirits in a game like Smash and they'd give an arm and a leg to be simply a Spirit because then they can say "I'm in Smash!". Being in Smash for any franchise at this point is like a badge of honor even in the most minuscule way. You just come off as someone who wants everything his way and honestly a bit manipulative by saying "I guess these people don't matter, right". The dead franchises ain't Sakurai's fault, if anything those franchises being in Smash in any way gives them some kind of relevancy.

Yeah, people would love to get their character just as a PNG because it's free money. You don't have to do any work, just give a picture and you get money. That's basically it. You're overplaying how developers would give an arm and a leg just to be a png file for Smash Bros. Indie devs, maybe. Everyone else, it's not worth their time to negotiate for that. Their not going to go out of their way just to be a picture or a NPC, if Nintendo is offering them money and work out the deal then of course they're going to agree. Seriously, badge of honor? That's like saying you were at the Olympics but actually be just an audience member. No, the badge of honor is actually being in Smash Bros as a playable fighter. Spirits are more like those little participation ribbons.

Sure the dead freanchises aren't Sakurai's fault, never said they were. I'm point out the Assist Trophy status doesn't help those series at all when compare to the actual playable characters. If anything I'm telling Sakurai that he should do less work by not making the Assist Trophies since they do jack crap of anything. That little boost of relevancy they get as Assist Trophies doesn't seem to warrant Nintendo investing in those series or gathering anymore support for another title, so what's even the point? Let have the Smash Bros team do less work and focus on the part that actually gives a pay out.

"No one is saying agree with what Sakurai does, we're just pointing out that he had good intentions and that we should appreciate the Assist Trophies because of that"

 

[Yacobo]

I can sort of see Wynn's viewpoint even If hes taking it to an extreme.

So far its shown that a character being an assist trophy is the kiss of death for them being playable in the same game. (Its not impossible that this will ever change, but so far theres no signs of this happening soon) And they really arent much of a substitute. You only have a really small chance of seeing them when an assist trophy shows up(assuming you even play with items) and even then all they really do is hop around and use like 2 or 3 moves at the most. It's completely understandable if someone isn't enthusiastic about that.

Imo assist trophies work best for characters that dont make any sense at all to be included as playable characters( pong. Flyswatter) or are so obscure or unimportant for their seriesnot even people who talk about smash newcomers online request them.

 

[Cosmic77]

Plenty of people had absolutely no idea who Shulk was before Smash. Even if there's no hard evidence for it, Smash should've helped Xenoblade to some extent. Clearly it's helped EarthBound F-Zero, and FE, so I don't know why XC would be any different.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Yeah because look at how great the Assist Trophy status has done for many series.
Golden Sun Dark Dawn sold like crap and is dead.
Starfy for DS sold like crap and is dead.
Sin & Punishment for the Wii sold terribly and is dead.
Advance War is dead.
Drill Dozer is dead.
Custom Robo is dead.

Not everything in Smash Bros need to be appreciated, and it's okay to call it out for being bad. Because if just being represented is soooooooo great why should Sakurai even bother making more fighters when he could just save so much time just giving out PNGs of other series?

Drill dozer isn't dead because of smash, Drill dozer is dead because it isn't Pokemon.

 

[Guynamednelson]

You only have a really small chance of seeing them when an assist trophy shows up(assuming you even play with items) and even then all they really do is hop around and use like 2 or 3 moves at the most. It's completely understandable if someone isn't enthusiastic about that.

Plus, certain ATs can be disabled depending on the stage. Love Alucard, but also love Wii Fit Studio? Tough ****.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I some facts here. Out of so many many fan polls, youtube videos, online campaign, I can't find jack crap support for Dark Samus. I feel like Sakurai can come up and say that Iori Yagami was really highly requested and people will believe that. Every other character I believe had great support, but not Dark Samus.

I only speak from experience, but Dark Samus had alright support, she was never a frontrunner as Ridley usually took priority among Metroid fans, but she was at least present in speculation for both Brawl and Smash 4. I can believe that she might have had an alright showing on the ballot because of Sakurai's damning words about Ridley at that time, for people who wanted another Metroid character she was their best bet.

Of course you also have to compare her popularity not to other potential unique newcomers, but to other potential echoes. Daisy and Chrom were more requested than her, but after those I'd probably say she was the most discussed character that could have made for a viable echo.

 

[wynn728]

Being disappointed is one thing. Ranting and complaining is where the entitlement creeps in.

Saying "I wish I got NOTHING instead!" is kind of childish. There is no guarantee that any of the ATs would make it through DLC, especially when you consider outside of the hardcore Nintendo fan bubble, hardly anyone even knows what some of these franchises even are, unfortunately.

Also, as others said, pretending that we didn't get anyone from the ballot when we got K. Rool is silly.

WHERE CRAP DID I SAYING WE GOT NOTHING FROM THE BALLOT?!!? Please tell me? Where did I say that? I would love to know.

Also, how dare I express my disappointment. We can be disappointed, but apparently if we talk about it then that's a big no-no. I am so entitled for saying that I hate Assist Trophies and voicing my reason why. Forgive me internet for I have sin by talking about my disappoints. I should know that only positivity is allowed to be talked about multiple times to the point of redundancy.

Also mention that I rather have nothing instead of Assist Trophies not because I think they would automatically mean they get to be DLC, but because I'm good with nothing. Any kind of representation I don't care about. I was good with Isaac not being an Assist Trophy in Smash 4, and I would've been good had he never returned. Assist Trophy reveal just disappoints me, so I rather cut the reveal of "who's not getting in" since it just takes enjoyment away.

 

[yeet123]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

give us the Direct

 

[Deleted member]

So far its shown that a character being an assist trophy is the kiss of death for them being playable in the same game. (Its not impossible that this will ever change, but so far theres no signs of this happening soon)

I never really liked this strand of logic. Chances are if Sakurai made your character into an assist trophy, he was never planning to use them to begin with--with or without assist trophies. He didn't make assist trophies first and then choose the fighters.

This applies to DLC but for a different reason. I highly doubt Isaac would have made it if he wasn't an assist trophy given the 3rd party trend this DLC cycle is performing.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

give us the Direct

Kinda late dude.

 

[Cosmic77]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

give us the Direct

An obvious hint at Zacian getting in Smash if I ever saw one.

 

[Deleted member]

WHERE CRAP DID I SAYING WE GOT NOTHING FROM THE BALLOT?!!? Please tell me? Where did I say that? I would love to know.

Also, how dare I express my disappointment. We can be disappointed, but apparently if we talk about it then that's a big no-no. I am so entitled for saying that I hate Assist Trophies and voicing my reason why. Forgive me internet for I have sin by talking about my disappoints. I should know that only positivity is allowed to be talked about multiple times to the point of redundancy.

Also mention that I rather have nothing instead of Assist Trophies not because I think they would automatically mean they get to be DLC, but because I'm good with nothing. Any kind of representation I don't care about. I was good with Isaac not being an Assist Trophy in Smash 4, and I would've been good had he never returned. Assist Trophy reveal just disappoints me, so I rather cut the reveal of "who's not getting in" since it just takes enjoyment away.

This is a speculation thread, not a vent channel. All of this is off topic and has dragged out to multiple pages.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So don't know if anyone heard but there's some insider info regarding a rumor Jill Valentine was meant to be in Base roster until being pushed to DLC but Capcom wasn't happy with that and removed her entirely.

Could explain the RE spirits...

 

[wynn728]

Burden of proof is on you kid. If you wanna actually prove Dark Samus was not highly requested, why don't you pull up the facts and prove it.

Like I said, I try to be active with what character support is out there and out of the five years of speculations I can't remember anyone bringing up Dark Samus during the ballot. If she was somehow actually made as big as a dent as Sakurai claims with how little she was actually talked about then I guess that's a Dark Horse victory right there.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Plenty of people had absolutely no idea who Shulk was before Smash. Even if there's no hard evidence for it, Smash should've helped Xenoblade to some extent. Clearly it's helped EarthBound F-Zero, and FE, so I don't know why XC would be any different.

Imagine the kid who played Smash 64 and was like "Who the **** is Ness?"

Then he become a Ness main who spam PK fire every seconds and lost all of his friends as a result.

Poor kid...

Also, if you ask, he later became a weeb after he played Melee & unlocked Marth & Roy.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe we should move on from the topic, its clear when there's someone who refuses to actively listen.

Being playable or not in Smash Bros has little to no impact in the status of a series, it can create awareness of the characters but if that's not being followed by any effort of promoting and developing good new entries then its all for naught.

You might not like if your favorite character is an AT, but it can be hardly be classified as an insult. As there seems that there are more factors in play as to the selection of characters for being playable or not.

 

[SneakyLink]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

give us the Direct

Terry’s lookin cool for his first 7-11 rodeo.

 

[Yacobo]

I never really liked this strand of logic. Chances are if Sakurai made your character into an assist trophy, he was never planning to use them to begin with--with or without assist trophies. He didn't make assist trophies first and then choose the fighters.

This applies to DLC but for a different reason. I highly doubt Isaac would have made it if he wasn't an assist trophy given the 3rd party trend this DLC cycle is performing.

Its true that they probably never would've made it anyway but it's the ultimate tell that they wont which is why a lot of people are disappointed when their character gets shown as an AT.

For example imagine if Bomberman was never revealed as an assist trophy. Right now we'd see some people try to push for him because hes a pretty reasonable pick for smash DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

Being playable or not in Smash Bros has little to no impact in the status of a series, it can create awareness of the characters but if that's not being followed by any effort of promoting and developing good new entries then its all for naught.

True. Increasing the fanbase for a series doesn't really help it if it's dead. eg: F Zero, MOTHER, Banjo-Kazooie. It's all about what the big heads at Nintendo decide.

 

[Ura]

I can sort of see Wynn's viewpoint even If hes taking it to an extreme.

So far its shown that a character being an assist trophy is the kiss of death for them being playable in the same game. (Its not impossible that this will ever change, but so far theres no signs of this happening soon) And they really arent much of a substitute. You only have a really small chance of seeing them when an assist trophy shows up(assuming you even play with items) and even then all they really do is hop around and use like 2 or 3 moves at the most. It's completely understandable if someone isn't enthusiastic about that.

Imo assist trophies work best for characters that dont make any sense at all to be included as playable characters( pong. Flyswatter) or are so obscure or unimportant for their seriesnot even people who talk about smash newcomers online request them.

This might be an unpopular opinion here but yeah, i'll have to agree with most of this.

It's a hard fact that people are more interested in the characters they play as and get invested with VS the ones who make brief appearences for like 10 seconds. At most, AT's get a small amount of intrigue from hardcore fans but your average player honestly couldn't care less about whatever assist character they see and it's even worse for trophy/spirit characters.

And sometimes it's even worse when the AT isn't even well implemented like the old Infantry & Tanks AT. As a big fan of the Advance Wars series, it's pretty deflating to see the franchise's only significant representation being pixel-sized, Infantry & Tank units appearing for like a couple of seconds before falling to their death. It's honestly a poor representation of what this franchise has to offer and in this case, the only way to convey that is with a playable character given how complex an AW moveset would be.

Of course, the Infantry & Tanks AT is gone now so even that is a moot point lol. Andy DLC maybe I hope.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't have any proof on me but I do remember Dark Samus being mentioned here and there during the ballot days. Not as much as Ridley and Simon but certainly more than Layton and Shantae

 

[Deleted member]

Its true that they probably never would've made it anyway but it's the ultimate tell that they wont which is why a lot of people are disappointed when their character gets shown as an AT.

For example imagine if Bomberman was never revealed as an assist trophy. Right now we'd see some people try to push for him because hes a pretty reasonable pick for smash DLC.

He would be discussed, but he isn't and I've long accepted that. Besides, better I talk to people who like him over someone like BlackInk who just comes out of nowhere to speculate and makes the fanbase look bad.

Plus it's not like Bomberman was the only series I supported or had interest in--if you take a gander at my signature.

 

[MooMew64]

Its true that they probably never would've made it anyway but it's the ultimate tell that they wont which is why a lot of people are disappointed when their character gets shown as an AT.

For example imagine if Bomberman was never revealed as an assist trophy. Right now we'd see some people try to push for him because hes a pretty reasonable pick for smash DLC.

I mean, you can still talk about him. No one is gonna stop you.