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My opinion hasn't changed. I think it has a lot to do with Nintendo's (especially recent) insistence on adding a gimmick to every game, and I also think that's why they've experimented so much with Paper Mario: to differentiate it from the other Mario RPG series, starting with Super Paper Mario after, notably, the only critical point against Thousand-Year Door was that it rehashed a lot of themes and structure from the first game.
I've also heard it said (grain of salt) that Nintendo isn't sure they could top F-Zero GX in creating another game in the series. Which, in their defense, is a valid concern if they're talking about a new game, particularly without cooperating with Sega again. Myself, I'd be happy with a GX port featuring online play. That's really all I want. Add a stage editor like F-Zero X had on top and you would immediately please every F-Zero fan.
No. Donkey Kong is a part of Mario's roots and is still present in spin off titles. The real question is why don't the Mario and Donkey Kong Country series have more to do with each other. (Not saying it's a bad thing just that it is.)
Review of the existing
Classificationof different licenses
Foreword :The elements below aren't indicative of authority. It is already common to reject any initiative of thinking by invoking Sakurai's authority. It is already common to reject any initiative of thinking by stigmatizing crafted conspiracy theory. Notes are just shared for inviting comparison and thinking.
Overview
For each license, only the first game released by Nintendo is taken into account. So, Duck Hunt was born before the NES, Shulk comes from a license whose origin is another third party license, which appears for the first time at Nintendo on NDS. Joker comes from a license whose origin is another third party license, which appears for the first time at Nintendo on NES. Erdrick is included in situation as if he was the new DLC.
So, there are 22 Nintendo licenses, 23 with the Mii, and there are 11 licenses with third party origins. Today, the representation ratio between third-party origins and Nintendo origin is 1/2. With the 3 new Fighters, will this ratio be respected (12/24 + Mii), or will it be surpassed (13/23 or 14/22) ?
What does it say ?
- Only Melee doesn't have at least 6 new licenses representations. The chances that the new Fighters come from existing licenses for SmashU are therefore low. Indeed, it's difficult to believe that after 10 new licenses represented in Smash4 (or 11 counting the Mii), SmashU would only have 4 new licenses represented. Here is what would reduce the chances of Dixie, Impa, Sylux, Porky, Bandana, 8th gen. Pokemon rep, Fire Emblem or Xenoblade rep... This point is in line with Reggie's announcement: "Who never saw it coming forward, new to the series, just like Joker from Persona 5 : it's emblematic of the approach that Mr. Sakurai and the team are taking with the DLC. He wants characters that are unique, different, to bring them into the Smash Bros environment. Ultimate would bring just a whole different level of fun and enjoyment for the player. That's been the approach. That's the thinking". Without judging, I realize that a lot of energy on this forum has been spent defending characters whose licenses are already represented (Geno being the first example). I ask myself the question of where would our collective reflection be if this energy had been used differently ? There are 12 new Non-Echo Fighters in SmashU, with already DK, Mario, Metroid and Pokemon representations. I don't think there will be others from these licenses.
What does it say ?
- The NES is newly represented in each opus. Only Melee doesn't have at least 3 new NES license representations.... and SmashU too. Will SmashU have a 4rd NES representation (Ryu Hayabusa, Arle Nadja or an other) ? The real first missing piece on NES is Bomberman.
- Will the SNES have a 4th representation (Marine or an other) ?
- Will the N64/GameCube have a 4th representation (Leon, Rayman, Banjo or an other) ?
- The GBA, the 3DS and the Switch aren't (yet) represented. But the 3DS is over-represented with the other more recent Fighters from their respective licenses. Will the Switch have a 1st representation ?
What does it say ?
- It's since Melee that Smash hasn't proposed new RPG Fighters whose origins of creation don't belong to a third-party developer. The RPG Fighters from third-party are already in the majority, and here is what would reduce the chances of Lloyd Irving, Monster Hunter, 2B, Dovahkiin, KOS-MOS, Sans... but not necessarily Jibanyan (2sd party).
- Will the ratio between representations platform games of third-party/Nintendo licenses be 1/2 ? Will there be a new platform Fighter (Crash, Rayman, Banjo, Shantae or an other) ?
- With Fox, Duck Hunt and Inkling, shooting games are represented by different styles. Will there be a new shooting Fighter (Leon, Doomguy, Master Chief or an other) to represent Horror or FPS games ?
- Ryu is the only real icon of fighting games. Here is what would reduce the chances of Heihachi Mishima or an other.
I don't know if it has been brought already, but another "rumour" popped up, this time seemingly from the German eShop:
I know it's probably fake, but I felt like entertaining something for a bit. It doesn't have a good line-up like some other rumours, but It's interesting.
I don't know if it has been brought already, but another "rumour" popped up, this time seemingly from the German eShop:
I know it's probably fake, but I felt like entertaining something for a bit. It doesn't have a good line-up like some other rumours, but It's interesting.
I don't know if it has been brought already, but another "rumour" popped up, this time seemingly from the German eShop:
I know it's probably fake, but I felt like entertaining something for a bit. It doesn't have a good line-up like some other rumours, but It's interesting.
This is DLC, a whole different ball game(never mind way later on). So no, that's a poor way of looking at it. Anyone who couldn't make it into the roster due to being too new would be prime game for the DLC roster... in many cases. Cuphead has been out definitely out before the DLC would've been decided on.
Though I think it's fake, but there's no credibility and it's a pretty easy image to fake as well.
This is DLC, a whole different ball game(never mind way later on). So no, that's a poor way of looking at it. Anyone who couldn't make it into the roster due to being too new would be prime game for the DLC roster... in many cases. Cuphead has been out definitely out before the DLC would've been decided on.
Though I think it's fake, but there's no credibility and it's a pretty easy image to fake as well.
Probably because of fan demand. That and, well, it's clear some ATs and Mii costumes are intentionally compensating for a character's absence as playable. Looks more likely to ignore first-party characters than third-party ones.
Probably because of fan demand. That and, well, it's clear some ATs and Mii costumes are intentionally compensating for a character's absence as playable. Looks more likely to ignore first-party characters than third-party ones.
...Because he was talking about the base roster only.
He didn't intend to have them as DLC, so made them costumes in return since they weren't possible for playable.
That said, he implied Rex isn't going to be anything but a costume for the current Fighter's Pass... by making him a costume if you get the full Fighter's Pass. it's not a literal confirmation, but it's pretty obvious. I mean, is it impossible Rex could be part of the Fighter's Pass? No. But highly unlikely.
I'd expect those who weren't already costumes in base, but who knows. Rex is literally already part of the Season's Pass, so he's in a different category from the base roster costumes too. Or a different situation, if you will.
Which doesn't mean much. Nobody was given a costume in the same game, and then became a newcomer. Those with hard costumes first never become a fighter. Yet.
It's more that Rex is in a bad spot compared to others. He's already part of the Fighter's Pass... just in a different way. Most of the costumes are also AT's, which is already painful for their chances as is.
Thinking about it, how many characters got costumes but weren't also AT's. Lip is the only one I can think of that's in Ultimate. I imagine others will get their 3rd party costumes returned, as companies want money, hence them being DLC makes sense. We already know why Rex and Spring Man(as well as Ribbon Girl) are costumes, because they couldn't be playable in the base. So other than Lip standing out... was there other 1st party costumes that were neither fighter or AT's?
I was talking more in the line of Mario, Link, Chrom, Isabelle, Fox, Inkling, Samus, Falcon, K. Rool, (Wool) Yoshi...
Who would actually use any of these? Why does Nintendo want so badly for us to play stupid knock-off versions of characters that are fully playable already? Who's going to play Chrom Mii instead of Chrom?
I was talking more in the line of Mario, Link, Chrom, Isabelle, Fox, Inkling, Samus, Falcon, K. Rool, (Wool) Yoshi...
Who would actually use any of these? Why does Nintendo want so badly for us to play stupid knock-off versions of characters that are fully playable already? Who's going to play Chrom Mii instead of Chrom?
...And every single one of those characters who got a costume in 4 did not become playable in 4 after that. Which is my point. Right now, being a costume looks bad for your chances of becoming a newcomer, even as DLC(where for Rex, he's already part of the Fighter's Pass, further making his chances lower). Most of the costumes were just transferred over(except 3rd party) with barely any new ones in Ultimate(Lip, Isaac, Spring Man, Ribbon Girl... was that it? Ignoring Rex, as I mean base).
The point is having a costume, if you suddenly got one in Ultimate, is likely because the character wasn't intended to become playable. This is why Spring Man, Rex, and probably Ribbon Girl(same reason as Spring Man) even got them. They're consolation prizes for fans of the characters. Yes, they're intended to be an option if the character isn't playable. It's why many AT's got one, so you can play as the character in a secondary way. And frankly, a costume is still amazing compared to nothing. At least you can still remotely play as the character without modding. At worst, they're hard to get the costume in the first place or are behind a paywall(Besides those, Geno was outright confirmed to be a costume because he couldn't be a regular playable character).
...I hope you saw my edit, cause I actually made another point. It looks like Lip is the only base costume that isn't already tied to an AT or was not a case of "too late for roster".
The Chibi-Robo costume is better than no Chibi-Robo content at all. He was once one of my most-wanted and I'm over the moon that I get to kinda play as him in a costume clearly designed with love.
The Chibi-Robo costume is better than no Chibi-Robo content at all. He was once one of my most-wanted and I'm over the moon that I get to kinda play as him in a costume clearly designed with love.
I love Mii costumes too. They're a nice secondary option. I'll take that over zero options, really.
Also, I forgot that costume. So that means so far Lip and Chibi-Robo are costumes without an AT counterpart so far. Did I miss anyone else of those who weren't already on the "too late for the base roster" factor?
I love Mii costumes too. They're a nice secondary option. I'll take that over zero options, really.
Also, I forgot that costume. So that means so far Lip and Chibi-Robo are costumes without an AT counterpart so far. Did I miss anyone else of those who weren't already on the "too late for the base roster" factor?
Ah, I couldn't remember a lot of them. ...Actually, Nia I didn't even know/notice. Hmm. Well, there's still a decent list of potential ones. Nia, Ray, (though I wouldn't put money on a Yiga clan member), Chibi-Robo, Lip, Saki. Not bad~
I love Mii costumes too. They're a nice secondary option. I'll take that over zero options, really.
Also, I forgot that costume. So that means so far Lip and Chibi-Robo are costumes without an AT counterpart so far. Did I miss anyone else of those who weren't already on the "too late for the base roster" factor?
The 3rd party ones are all gone. They're probably just being re-licensed as DLC so the companies can make extra money on their IP. It... makes a lot of sense.
DLC 1 Joker ! Atlus Rep Mementos Stage MM Last Suprise
DLC 2 Chrono Squaresoft Rep IDK Stage MM IDK
DLC 3 Steve or Cuphead Microsoft Rep Like living room and Mario Maker but blocky stage or Devil's Casino MM MC Menu Music or Cuphead Menu Song Remix
DLC 4 Jibanyan or Oliver Level 5 Rep Yokai World-World's Edge or Ding Dong Dell MM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYkVElaux80 Remix or Ni No Kuni Menu Music Remix
DLC 5 Master Chief FPS and Bungie Rep IDK Stage MM IDK
I assume you're asking for one song you want guaranteed to come with the character in question. In that case, my dream DLC pack including hard deconfirmed characters would be:
DLC 1 - Joker - Casino of Fate - Life Will Change
DLC 2 - Travis Touchdown - Santa Destroy Stadium - Pleather for Breakfast
DLC 3 - Phoenix Wright - Courtroom No. 4 - Cornered (AA1)
DLC 4 - Stylist (Style Savvy) - Beaumonde City - Girls Be Ambitious
DLC 5 - 2B - Abandoned Amusement Park - A Beautiful Song
I don't really believe in the concept of reps, so I just picked my characters I want to see most. Joker was confirmed and was my most-wanted pipe dream anyway. 2B is my other impossible dream but she'd be amazing. Travis has been my slightly more realistic most-wanted since Brawl and his new moveset potential thanks to Travis Strikes Again is through the roof. Phoenix Wright is my current realistic most-wanted. Style Savvy rep is my most-wanted first party as she'd be bright and fun.
It's tough to narrow it down but this would give me a good variety of characters that I think could really add to the game aesthetically or mechanically. If we are removing deconfirmed characters (RIP Travis...) I'd probably say Elma or Arle Nadja would be my replacement.
Now if we're getting really wacky my top five would be Marina Liteyears, Scrooge McDuck, Phoenix Wright, Style Savvy, and 2B, but let's not get greedy over here.
Anyone else is really just a bonus for me. I never liked Banjo but I'd be happy for Banjo fans if he was in. Never played Halo but MC would be neat. The first Rayman game was the only one I liked, and they'd draw from more than that, so I could take or leave him. Bomberman Hero was the only Bomberman game I liked - same logic. Same for Paper Mario - they would draw crap from the games everyone wants to forget about, so he's better off out now.
I would actually turn down Goku if presented the final decision of whether he would be in. Adapting him for Smash would weaken him too dramatically. It would feel like a crappy, cheap knockoff of the character.
Karate Joe - Rhythm Heaven - Wish! Couldn't Wait for You
Amaterasu - Shinshu Field - The Sun Rises
Bandana Waddle Dee - Another Dimension - Boss (Kirby Returns to Dreamland)
Elma - Miran Holodeck - Theme X
King Boo - Bowser's Castle - Koopa's Road
Other notable characters are Chibi-Robo, Rayman, and that's it. I didn't add Joker because this is a wishlist and I can't care about him until I see gameplay. Very few of the listed characters will get in anyway.
Challenger Pack 2: Chorus Kids (slash any kind of RH rep) - Rhythm Heaven (perhaps works similar to the WarioWare stage) Challenger Pack 3: Crash Bandicoot - The Time Twister Machine (travels through different time period levels) Challenger Pack 4: Marco (Metal Slug) - some MS level idk Challenger Pack 5: Tails "Miles" Prower or something idk - Chemical Plant Zone
2 & 3 are my two big wants, while 4 & 5 would also be pretty neat.
It'd be really cool to see some Rhythm Heaven character love in Smash; one that references a bunch of its minigames in its moves. Though not the most profitable, it's one big remaining first party franchise to strangely only have a few songs and no significant visual representation (ATs, Mii costumes) in Ultimate other than the most amount of spirits for such an unrepped series, and after getting so close to having a character in last time too.
I've always been a huge fan of Crash and wanted him to be in Smash since the Brawl days or so, to the point where I'd start to make him as one of my expansion characters for Super Smash Flash 2 back when that was a thing. And with him once again being popular with the N Sane. Trilogy, his chances are the best they've ever been. He's already gotten close to being in the same place as his Italian rival with Skylanders that allowed for him and Bowser or DK to be on screen together.
As for the others, Metal Slug is great and maybe the most iconic of SNK's lineup (?, at least to me...). And though unlikely with Joker being a thing, Tails would be the proper second Sonic rep, forming a great group of its characters with the Knuckles and Shadow ATs. If Castlevania and Street Fighter of all series could get second characters that played similar to the first, then surely we could have had just one other character of the franchise with historic Nintendo rivalry, and that which frequently got to cross its characters with Mario in a whole series of games (though then again, I kinda didn't want Shadow in as the second Sonic character anyway, so swings and roundabouts I guess).
