Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Xelrog]

You know who I just realized I would be totally okay with being included? Linkle. Shame she's Nintendo-noncanon.

Honestly I think I would've liked Decidueye more than Incineroar, but we had neither a dedicated archer nor a pro wrestler in the game, so eh.

Linkle's more of a gunner than an archer anyway but y'know it'd be neat. Right after Tingle ofc.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Honestly I think I would've liked Decidueye more than Incineroar, but we had neither a dedicated archer nor a pro wrestler in the game, so eh.

Linkle's more of a gunner than an archer anyway but y'know it'd be neat. Right after Tingle ofc.

Linkle's technically a Crossbow user, but true.

...She should be a Mii Gunner costume, that said.

And yeah, I'd love Tingle in. He's among my top picks. Along with Ganon and Oracles!Impa. None of the other characters stand out nearly as much to me in comparison. I think Ganondorf's original form could make for a really fun and interesting character. Then you have my favorite version of Zelda's bodyguard, and finally, the weird man himself. The fairy man. So much potential~

 

[Xelrog]

Ganon could definitely happen, I just question if we need another duplicate Zelda character. I mean, yeah, Ganon would play completely differently from Ganondorf, but with him we would have Link, Zelda, and Ganon taking up an accumulative 7 character slots. Also, fat Ganon hasn't made an appearance in quite a while, has he? He's all these gigantic demon-beasts these days.

I'm honestly surprised Tingle's not in. He's starred in two games. I guess he's too obvious to be a joke character, and too joke to be a serious character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ganon could definitely happen, I just question if we need another duplicate Zelda character. I mean, yeah, Ganon would play completely differently from Ganondorf, but with him we would have Link, Zelda, and Ganon taking up an accumulative 7 character slots. Also, fat Ganon hasn't made an appearance in quite a while, has he? He's all these gigantic demon-beasts these days.

I'm honestly surprised Tingle's not in. He's starred in two games. I guess he's too obvious to be a joke character, and too joke to be a serious character.

Tingle has had a lot hate in the West, meaning he's a bit riskier to add as a new character. He's more lukewarm in the UK, where 2 of his 3 games only make it there. He's mainly popular in the East. Though he's not nearly as hated in the West as he used to be, there's still a lot of unnecessary vitriol.

As for Ganon, he's not a "duplicate" character as he wouldn't be a clone. Only Young Link and Toon Link really count as that, as they derived their movesets from regular ole' Link. Besides that, they're very different characters in personality at times as well, heavily separated bar sharing the same soul at best. Ganon is far more destructive and rarely plans things out. We don't even know if Agnahim is an actual real human form of Ganon at this point, or just someone he possessed. Even the various Manga/Comics/etc. is inconsistent about Agnahim's relation to Ganon. Even the interpretations don't know what to think, while the actual canon isn't clear. But yeah, as we've seen in this case, it shouldn't really matter if it's another form of a character. As long as they can bring different gameplay at even the slightest difference... they work well enough. Though I'd like Echoes to be slightly better with at least one or two different moves, not just bare hurtbox differences like Daisy is...

Besides that, they're still different characters despite being the same person. In Smash, it doesn't really matter if it has the same person or not. It's a matter of representing a particular character from a game. Pig Ganon(one of his bestial forms) is the original villain and a very iconic one. That's enough alone to earn him a spot, as he's the most memorable design(especially ALTTP's design).

 

[osby]

I’d love Chief but I feel they’d save him for Smash 6. Revealing that game alongside Master Chief would be huge news.

I think it’s down to Banjo or Steve. As of late, I’m leaning more towards Banjo. Phil Spencer knows how much the fan wants Banjo, so he would know that Banjo would sell very well.

I also think Banjo may be getting a new game soon. He’s been getting a slow push recently much like Battletoads had before their new game was announced.

New merch, references in Sea of Thieves, a big focus in Rare Replay, prominent in Xbone backwards compatibility & GamePass marketing, etc...

Banjo as a fighter (with stage & music of course). Then some Minecraft content through a stage, Mii costumes & Spirits.

They revealed Ryu and Cloud as DLC last time instead of "saving" them for the next game.

 

[lordvaati]

Linkle and Lana both fall in that same grey area that Geno resides in in that they are co-owned by Nintendo and the developer of the game they were in, so really I could argue they could be held to similar regard. only thing they lack is the Decade+ demand that Geno has got.

Also I just remembered it's March now, which means....

Now I'm not expecting too much beyond deets of the next Persona 5 installment/port, but considering the last video before this one was about Sakurai touring ATLUS and gushing over how great P5 was I would not rule out the chance of some gameplay of Joker being shown here.

 

[Idon]

Linkle and Lana both fall in that same grey area that Geno resides in in that they are co-owned by Nintendo and the developer of the game they were in, so really I could argue they could be held to similar regard. only thing they lack is the Decade+ demand that Geno has got.

Also I just remembered it's March now, which means....

Now I'm not expecting too much beyond deets of the next Persona 5 installment/port, but considering the last video before this one was about Sakurai touring ATLUS and gushing over how great P5 was I would not rule out the chance of some gameplay of Joker being shown here.

In regards to P5R, keep an eye out for Sega FES 2019 on March 30-31. Sega in general tends to reveal some of their higher profile projects there.

 

[Curious Villager]

Ganon could definitely happen, I just question if we need another duplicate Zelda character. I mean, yeah, Ganon would play completely differently from Ganondorf, but with him we would have Link, Zelda, and Ganon taking up an accumulative 7 character slots. Also, fat Ganon hasn't made an appearance in quite a while, has he? He's all these gigantic demon-beasts these days.

I'm honestly surprised Tingle's not in. He's starred in two games. I guess he's too obvious to be a joke character, and too joke to be a serious character.

Classic Ganon's last appearance was in A Link Between Worlds, which wasn't that long ago. Plus spoilers for Link's Awakening, I guess. But he sort of makes an appearance there too, so he'll sort of show up in the upcoming Link's Awakening remake too.

 

[Xelrog]

I neither grew up with nor liked Mario RPG as an adult, so I have no interest in Geno and don't quite get why he's so popular, but to each his own.

There aren't any characters from either Paper Mario game iconic enough for consideration, anyway.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Linkle and Lana both fall in that same grey area that Geno resides in in that they are co-owned by Nintendo and the developer of the game they were in, so really I could argue they could be held to similar regard. only thing they lack is the Decade+ demand that Geno has got.

It's not a grey area for Geno. We actually are not sure of the details for Linkle and Lana(especially since Nintendo had a concept for a female Link well beforehand). However, Geno is 100% owned by Square-Enix, as are anything that wasn't originally Nintendo-created in SMRPG. It's pretty clear in that case. Even some of the unique variants of species are Square-Enix owned. Like Megasmilax, a variation of a Piranha Plant. Copyrights and trademarks were kind of weird at that time, so that might be why. Later on in gaming, some rulings probably changed, where parodies of characters weren't 100% owned by the creator of the parody itself. Depending at best if they're a reference or an actual re-species variation(as seen by Megasmilax, it's a re-species variation, so theoretically Nintendo should own some of it... but they don't).

 

[CboyC95]

No love for Jody Summer at all, huh?

 

[Guynamednelson]

No love for Jody Summer at all, huh?

The desire for another F-Zero character has been completely taken over by Black Shadow. Even the Assist Alliance isn't helping F-Zero's fans go back to Samurai Goroh.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The desire for another F-Zero character has been completely taken over by Black Shadow. Even the Assist Alliance isn't helping F-Zero's fans go back to Samurai Goroh.

Funny thing is; Samurai Goroh is still my first choice.

Jody is still a cool option. Black Shadow is neat too, but I admit I'd like him to be a clone of Ganondorf while using his old Smash attacks. Mostly cause it does fit Black Shadow's characterization, but also would give us the Brawl/4 moveset too. Ganondorf feels off with his swords. It doesn't feel as satisfying. He's better, bar his horrid Down Smash(the range is completely gone...). It's more like how Young Link now plays like the regular Link, as BOTW Link is very different.

Mind you, I never liked the idea of adding Black Shadow just for the sake of giving Ganondorf a super moveset overhaul(so basically a completely new character like Toon Link was, as he was not an updated Young Link by any means, though they did play a similar role, and Young Link's assets were used to help create him. Toon Link is more comparable to how Luigi is to Mario, if you will). However, Ganondorf did get minor yet notable changes enough where you can't play as him like in Brawl or even Melee. Black Shadow is a magic user too, and could easily play akin to Captain Falcon as is. We have actually no knowledge of how most of the F-Zero racers play as outside of their racer, so the idea of being highly physical characters makes some sense. They're in a sport, so there's logic to using it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Though I'd like Echoes to be slightly better with at least one or two different moves, not just bare hurtbox differences like Daisy is...

I hope they give Daisy a few changes in the next game. Since her unique trait is the ability to double jump (as seen in Super Mario Run) and she has absolutely nothing to do with toads, I would get rid of her ability to float, give her her a third jump, change her neutral special, and change her grab and throw animations. This would make her feel very differant from Peach even though she has the same physics and most of the same attacks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I hope they give Daisy a few changes in the next game. Since her unique trait is the ability to double jump (as seen in Super Mario Run) and she has absolutely nothing to do with toads, I would get rid of her ability to float, give her her a third jump, change her neutral special, and change her grab and throw animations. This would make her feel very differant from Peach even though she has the same physics and most of the same attacks.

I dunno if getting rid of the floating is needed, but who else could act well as a Shield for her akin to Toad? I honestly can't remember any characters that are associated with her like that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I dunno if getting rid of the floating is needed, but who else could act well as a Shield for her akin to Toad? I honestly can't remember any characters that are associated with her like that.

The floating thing is mostly just personal preference. Toad Shield would have to be completely replaced by something else. Either that or just have Daisy block the attack herself with a baseball bat or something. She's more active than Peach so it wouldn't entirely be out of character.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The floating thing is mostly just personal preference. Toad Shield would have to be completely replaced by something else. Either that or just have Daisy block the attack herself with a baseball bat or something. She's more active than Peach so it wouldn't entirely be out of character.

Maybe use an item from the spin-off games for a shield? But the important part is how the "backlash" like Toad's spores are is remade. You could also make it more like a Counter to some degree, where she would deflect the attack with her arm and then strike with a golf club/tennis racket.

I also think it'd be smart to remove her Frying Pan from the Smash attack. It isn't a good move for her to have. She doesn't use one at all. The other two fit, though. Actually, what other weapons does she use among the spin-offs that could fit? Or she could just use a Fan instead(related, I miss the Fan item...).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Maybe use an item from the spin-off games for a shield? But the important part is how the "backlash" like Toad's spores are is remade. You could also make it more like a Counter to some degree, where she would deflect the attack with her arm and then strike with a golf club/tennis racket.

I also think it'd be smart to remove her Frying Pan from the Smash attack. It isn't a good move for her to have. She doesn't use one at all. The other two fit, though. Actually, what other weapons does she use among the spin-offs that could fit? Or she could just use a Fan instead(related, I miss the Fan item...).

If they changed Daisy's counter (and didn't want to make it a completely new attack) I think they'd use Lucina's counter as a base with an animation change to make the counter stance make more sense with the improvised weapon.

I'm actually okay with Daisy wielding the Frying Pan. Sure it's a made up move but I don't think senseless or uncharacteristic for her. If anything I think it would make more sense to replace it with a parasol attack for Peach as a referance to Super Princess Peach and because it fits her dainty nature better. Regardless though I personally don't see a problem with it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If they changed Daisy's counter (and didn't want to make it a completely new attack) I think they'd use Lucina's counter as a base with an animation change to make the counter stance make more sense with the improvised weapon.

I was more thinking that using a weapon from a game she would actually wield as an alternate seems more logical. Though that'd require animation changes. Maybe just give Peach Toadsworth and keep regular Toad for Daisy? At least Daisy met regular Toad, you know? But eh. I'll have to look at the various characters in the sports games and weapons. Maybe one fits her rather well. There's a lot of different and unique characters, mooks or otherwise.

I'm actually okay with Daisy wielding the Frying Pan. Sure it's a made up move but I don't think senseless or uncharacteristic for her. If anything I think it would make more sense to replace it with a parasol attack for Peach as a referance to Super Princess Peach and because it fits her dainty nature better. Regardless though I personally don't see a problem with it.

Well, the Frying Pan is pretty much Peach's weapons from the RPG's. It has nothing to do with Daisy, so it feels half-assed. I mean, it's not like she can't use one, so...

 

[shinhed-echi]

I would have loved for Daisy to throw those little bad guys from the Mario Bros. Stage, you know, the crab, turtle, and hornet? Because they appear as regular enemies in Super Mario Land. You know, Daisy’a debut game.

Naturally they’d have to be an extremely nerfed version of them. And on contact with the ground, they resume their usual movement pattern.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Funny thing is; Samurai Goroh is still my first choice.

Jody is still a cool option. Black Shadow is neat too, but I admit I'd like him to be a clone of Ganondorf while using his old Smash attacks. Mostly cause it does fit Black Shadow's characterization, but also would give us the Brawl/4 moveset too. Ganondorf feels off with his swords. It doesn't feel as satisfying. He's better, bar his horrid Down Smash(the range is completely gone...). It's more like how Young Link now plays like the regular Link, as BOTW Link is very different.

Mind you, I never liked the idea of adding Black Shadow just for the sake of giving Ganondorf a super moveset overhaul(so basically a completely new character like Toon Link was, as he was not an updated Young Link by any means, though they did play a similar role, and Young Link's assets were used to help create him. Toon Link is more comparable to how Luigi is to Mario, if you will). However, Ganondorf did get minor yet notable changes enough where you can't play as him like in Brawl or even Melee. Black Shadow is a magic user too, and could easily play akin to Captain Falcon as is. We have actually no knowledge of how most of the F-Zero racers play as outside of their racer, so the idea of being highly physical characters makes some sense. They're in a sport, so there's logic to using it.

Yeah it'd be neat to finally come full circle by giving Cap his own series clone that hilariously takes up the moveset of the original version of his original clone, but I imagine F Zero's not an active enough franchise for Nintendo to give another rep to...

 

[Xelrog]

I'm so disappointed that Nintendo has given up on F-Zero games.

 

[Teeb147]

I'm so disappointed that Nintendo has given up on F-Zero games.

cpt Falcon is still big, so you would think there's tons of reason to make more f-zero games. Maybe they dont have enough staff that's good with racing games besides mario kart? dunno, i just dont get why they didn't pick it back up yet. I dont like regular racing games; nintendo has something.

 

[Guynamednelson]

cpt Falcon is still big, so you would think there's tons of reason to make more f-zero games. Maybe they dont have enough staff that's good with racing games besides mario kart? dunno, i just dont get why they didn't pick it back up yet. I dont like regular racing games; nintendo has something.

They were already using Sega to make GX. The problem is that Shigeru doesn't want another F-Zero game to simply be more F-Zero.

 

[Teeb147]

They were already using Sega to make GX. The problem is that Shigeru doesn't want another F-Zero game to simply be more F-Zero.

Then they just need to get their ideas together for what they want it to be, and make it fun
i just think it's a worthwhile franchise to go back to, anyway.

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I recall reading an interview with Miyamoto where he was asked about the future of F-Zero and he seemed genuinely surprised that someone wanted more F-Zero. I think up to that point Nintendo thought the franchise had lost its fan base and was dead. Here’s hoping they find some sort of new play mechanic that fits the F-Zero style. Or maybe a Switch remaster of GX at the very least.

 

[Xelrog]

Paper Mario died because Nintendo didn't want two Mario RPG series. F-Zero died because Nintendo didn't want two racing series. They just consolidated elements from Mario Kart, F-Zero, and Diddy Kong Racing into the more recent versions of Mario Kart and called it good. I guarantee you that's what they're thinking.

"But you can drive the Blue Falcon on upside-down courses in Mario Kart 8! Isn't that the same as F-Zero?"

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Paper Mario died because Nintendo didn't want two Mario RPG series. F-Zero died because Nintendo didn't want two racing series. They just consolidated elements from Mario Kart, F-Zero, and Diddy Kong Racing into the more recent versions of Mario Kart and called it good. I guarantee you that's what they're thinking.

Not exactly true. Sticker Star was going to be like the Thousand Year Door, but the developers were forced to change it so that it wasn't a "carbon copy". I highly doubt anything other than an innovation fixation is holding the series back.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Paper Mario died because Nintendo didn't want two Mario RPG series. F-Zero died because Nintendo didn't want two racing series. They just consolidated elements from Mario Kart, F-Zero, and Diddy Kong Racing into the more recent versions of Mario Kart and called it good. I guarantee you that's what they're thinking.

"But you can drive the Blue Falcon on upside-down courses in Mario Kart 8! Isn't that the same as F-Zero?"

I sure the **** hope not because then maybe DKC will die because Nintendo doesn't want two major Nintendo platformer franchises....

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not exactly true. Sticker Star was going to be like the Thousand Year Door, but the developers were forced to change it so that it wasn't a "carbon copy". I highly doubt anything other than an innovation fixation is holding the series back.

They weren't actually forced to change it. They were suggested to make it more unique. But it's not literally as simple as people try to make it.

The stickers were entirely the developers' ideas as well. The only real thing Miyamoto forced upon them is to not use unique characters anymore. So the fact it's mostly Toads is all he really made happen. Rest was fully realized by the developers. That includes the entire lack of experience, which somewhat got changed up to matter again in Color Splash. Thankfully they got out the significantly better Color Splash, as well as fixed the writing with that game so it has the same oomph that the first three games had.

 

[Ovaltine]

Something that I feel the Smash community needs more often than not is some respect and positivity.

Smashboards is a very respectful place, but elsewhere, man, the environment gets so toxic. I just wanted to make a post about how I feel about the environment and how it shouldn't affect you.

First off, please don't feel like your preferences for the roster are invalid or 'stupid'. We all have our own opinions. No, Banjo's and Geno's fans are not idiots for wanting revivals for their characters. No, Steve's and Erdrick's fans are not idiots for believing in their likelihood. No, a character's fan base is not entirely represented by the bad apples. Every fan base has them, some louder than others, but there are some good ones in there. Not all Waluigi fans will send hate messages against Sakurai and hate Smash Ultimate just because Waluigi didn't make it. Not all Steve fans are trolls who want to see everyone's favorites go down in flames.

All the same, if someone doesn't personally want a character in Smash, guess what? That's fine, too. I personally wouldn't like to see Steve in the game, but I can dislike a character choice without being disrespectful to the fans. I understand Steve's appeal and why they want him. If we get him, I'll be happy for his fans. It's just a personal preference, no more and no less. That's fine.

I'm a fan of Geno, and funnily, I used to hate him for being overrated. I've been on both sides of the spectrum. If someone really hates Geno or really doesn't want him in, that's fine. As long as they respect my stance on him, I respect theirs. It's basic human decency, and it's okay to co-exist with people who have different opinions on different characters. They're just video game characters and they shouldn't be a sign of what kind of person you are.

In the end, whatever we get, too, is what we get. Vocalizing support in a positive manner is perfectly fine and wonderful. It stirs a lot of creative ideas and fun times for character fan bases. With that said, vocalizing support in a negative fashion, nay-saying Sora Ltd., and invalidating Sakurai's hard work isn't cool. Personal preference is one thing, but harassing the team isn't. Let's not do that.

Basically... we don't need to cause a stir over our opinions and our hopes. Let people hope and dream. Likelihood is not equivalent to whether a character 'deserves' support or not. I'll always support Geno and Banjo, even if I acknowledge that the former's chances are low and the latter's is kinda iffy. That doesn't mean that I'm 'delusional'. Being realistic about your wishes isn't an unknown concept. All the same, if someone wants a likely character like Steve or Erdrick, it doesn't mean that they 'don't deserve' the support because they 'aren't fan favorites'.

Just let people love what they love. Respect. Love. Be peaceful.

After all, we are all Smash fans. None of us are as different as we think. I just felt like making a very bright post today, so hopefully this resonates with someone.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I sure the **** hope not because then maybe DKC will die because Nintendo doesn't want two major Nintendo platformer franchises....

Seems like conflicting game series tend to die after a sort of merger.

Mario & Luigi x Paper Mario happened, and it was the end of PM.

Mario Kart 8 included elements from F-Zero. No more F-Zero

The sign will be when Mario and DK cast share a platformer.

 

[Xelrog]

Half of Nintendo's IP's are platformers. If they employed that philosophy with them they'd be dead in the water.

Honestly I'm impressed they gave ARMS a fair shake since they already have Smash Bros. Mind you, it's the difference between a 2D fighter and an arena fighter.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Half of Nintendo's IP's are platformers. If they employed that philosophy with them they'd be dead in the water.

Honestly I'm impressed they gave ARMS a fair shake since they already have Smash Bros. Mind you, it's the difference between a 2D fighter and an arena fighter.

I won't lie... what platforming series do they have beyond Mario and DKC again??

I remember at least two racing series(Mario Kart and F-Zero), two fighting series(Smash and ARMS), some that aren't specific to one genre(Wii series). I honestly don't remember a lot of their owned IP's, that's for sure. At least they have a decent amount of RPG's in comparison to what I said; Golden Sun, Mario & Luigi, Paper Mario. And by that, I mean more than 1 or 2. There's probably more I'm missing easily.

 

[Xelrog]

Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Yoshi, Wario Land (if they're still doing any of those)... Metroid has a lot of other elements going on but is also a lot of platforming.

 

[Deleted member]

I dont think that Nintendo kills competing franchises of their own, but rather some are more lucrative than others so resources are allocated to the ones that earn more money.

If I remember well, Nintendo way of approving game pitches is gameplay dependant. And in the case of franchises like F-Zero, it could also be that there are currently no successful pitches for its return.

 

[N3ON]

F-Zero didn't die so Mario Kart could exist unencumbered or whatever, it died because it wasn't selling well. Despite Miyamoto's statements that they couldn't conceive of new innovation, NSMB games continued unabated; they sold well. Despite his supposed surprise at people wanting more F-Zero, they reached out to Criterion to make another.

If F-Zero sold better they'd make more of an effort to bring it back. Right now it's a low priority, but they're aware. And it'll be back one day. But don't believe the absence is for anything but a dearth of sales. Nine times out of ten a series finds itself on ice simply because it's not moving sufficient units.

 

[Xelrog]

F-Zero didn't die so Mario Kart could exist unencumbered or whatever, it died because it wasn't selling well.

GX sold 1.5 million units. What's the standard here?

 

[Ovaltine]

GX sold 1.5 million units. What's the standard here?

It did? Holy heck. Considering the Gamecube was debated to be a flop, that's really good on a console that was lagging behind.

 

[N3ON]

GX sold 1.5 million units. What's the standard here?

Higher than that, for an EPD IP. That's around Star Fox and Pikmin levels. And those receive the (infrequent) attention they do because, unlike F-Zero, Miyamoto seems to favour them. It's not their sales.