Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Ornl]

-Erdrick's first appearance was on the NES. DQ III was an NES title that got an SNES remake.

Oh ! It is true ! The theory that DLCs could represent generations of different consoles no longer holds.

-Nero Claudius (I'm assuming from Fate), appeared on Fate Extella for Switch in 2017
-KOS-MOS first debut on Nintendo was on the NDS with the Japanese release of Xenosaga I & II

You have a better ability to check these games than me ^^

-Joker first appearance on Nintendo consoles is PQ2 for the 3DS, as no version of P5 is confirmed for the Switch ATM.

Thus Joker becomes the 9th Fighter appeared at Nintendo for the first time on 3DS. It stands out from the 3DS ighters from Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

Thank you for all these details. It's well seen !

 

[Icedragonadam]

Leon didn't debuted on the Gamecube actually. Resident Evil 2 first appeared on the PS1 in 1998.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh ! It is true ! The theory that DLCs could represent generations of different consoles no longer holds.

You have a better ability to check these games than me ^^

Thus Joker becomes the 9th Fighter appeared at Nintendo for the first time on 3DS. It stands out from the 3DS ighters from Fire Emblem and Pokemon.

Thank you for all these details. It's well seen !

Dont recommend looking too much into patterns though. They can be broken easily.

 

[N3ON]

Any patterns you try to form now exist on the relics of dozens of past ones people at one point thought held merit. It's interesting to compile all that data just from an informational perspective, but to try and theorycraft with it will end fruitlessly; it's a path trodden many times in the past.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Leon didn't debuted on the Gamecube actually. Resident Evil 2 first appeared on the PS1 in 1998.

I assume he was only talking about Nintendo appearances. However, wasn’t there a RE2 port for the N64?

 

[Idon]

I assume he was only talking about Nintendo appearances. However, wasn’t there a RE2 port for the N64?

Yes, but "debut" implies his first appearane.

 

[Ornl]

I assume he was only talking about Nintendo appearances. However, wasn’t there a RE2 port for the N64?

True ! I was obviously not very good at checking the first appearances at Nintendo :/ Thanks for your eye !

Any patterns you try to form now exist on the relics of dozens of past ones people at one point thought held merit. It's interesting to compile all that data just from an informational perspective, but to try and theorycraft with it will end fruitlessly; it's a path trodden many times in the past.

- 100% of 78 fighters come from japanese licenses already released on Nintendo. According to Kamiya Itsuno (Devil May Cray boss), this tradition can't be broken. Even if it can be, it is in favor of Erdrick.
- Except Byaonetta, the ballot choice, all the third-party and DLC Fighters come from licenses born before the mid-1990s with at least 20 different games. Of course, there are only a few characters that conform to this tradition, which means it will certainly be broken. Still, it is in favor of Erdrick.
- Gamplay is very important, but it can't be represented in this table.

 

[Megadoomer]

True ! I was obviously not very good at checking the first appearances at Nintendo :/ Thanks for your eye !


- 100% of 78 fighters come from japanese licenses already released on Nintendo. According to Kamiya Itsuno (Devil May Cray boss), this tradition can't be broken. Even if it can be, it is in favor of Erdrick.
- Except Byaonetta, the ballot choice, all the third-party and DLC Fighters come from licenses born before the mid-1990s with at least 20 different games. Of course, there are only a few characters that conform to this tradition, which means it will certainly be broken. Still, it is in favor of Erdrick.
- Gamplay is very important, but it can't be represented in this table.

You're mixing up Hideki Kamiya (the creator of Devil May Cry and a founder of Platinum Games) and Hideaki Itsuno (a Capcom employee and the director of Devil May Cry 2-5). Itsuno was the one that made the quote, and he specifically said that he was "pretty sure" that all of the characters in Smash Bros. have had a game on a Nintendo console. He said nothing about the games having to be Japanese.

Also, I'm not sure if statistics mean much. Before Snake's announcement, 100% of the characters in Smash Bros. were from Nintendo owned series. Before Ryu's announcement, each third party company only got one character. Before Richter's announcement, each third party series only had one character representing it. When it comes to video game characters in Smash Bros., at least, nothing seems to be set in stone.

 

[Ornl]

Also, I'm not sure if statistics mean much. Before Snake's announcement, 100% of the characters in Smash Bros. were from Nintendo owned series. Before Ryu's announcement, each third party company only got one character. Before Richter's announcement, each third party series only had one character representing it. When it comes to video game characters in Smash Bros., at least, nothing seems to be set in stone.

There is a beginning to everything, a beginning that is a pleasure concerning Snake, Sonic and Ryu. Unlike integrating Steve for example, which would be a new beginning, but not doing much pleasure. I think the answer is neither in tradition, nor in novelty, but in equilibrium ^^

 

[osby]

There is a beginning to everything, a beginning that is a pleasure concerning Snake, Sonic and Ryu. Unlike integrating Steve for example, which would be a new beginning, but not doing much pleasure. I think the answer is neither in tradition, nor in novelty, but in equilibrium ^^

What does this even supposed to mean?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Man this is like conspiracy theory-stuff, I highly doubt the devs think this far into character selection, especially since we have new and old characters, characters created by Western people even if they're part of a Japanese franchise, and Sakurai even considering Banjo-Kazooie for Melee and maybe even Smash 64 before Microsoft bought Rareware (which made B-K a legal hassle back then, but now things seem to be better).

This is like assuming an omnipresent force is behind Smash, looking at every single statistic when in reality they likely just decide characters based on who they think are icons, would be good choices, are popular, and simple stuff like that. Popularity is certainly why K. Rool and Ridley are in, there's no extremely complicated stuff behind it.

 

[Gabesta99]

Personally I don't know I want Waluigi I get it he's an Assit trophy and won't make it but If we don't get Shrek I don't know who were getting **** IN BOOTS?

 

[N3ON]

- 100% of 78 fighters come from japanese licenses already released on Nintendo. According to Kamiya Itsuno (Devil May Cray boss), this tradition can't be broken. Even if it can be, it is in favor of Erdrick.
- Except Byaonetta, the ballot choice, all the third-party and DLC Fighters come from licenses born before the mid-1990s with at least 20 different games. Of course, there are only a few characters that conform to this tradition, which means it will certainly be broken. Still, it is in favor of Erdrick.
- Gamplay is very important, but it can't be represented in this table.

- Prior to 4, 100% of the playable series represented in Smash had never been cut
- Prior to Ultimate, 100% of the bosses in the game had been Nintendo characters
- Prior to Simon/Richter, 100% of the third-parties had been unique characters
- Prior to Greninja, 100% of the Pokemon reps had not been solo starter Pokemon
- Prior to Diddy Kong, 100% of the playable characters had been created in Japan
- Prior to Ultimate, 100% of the games had characters officially unrevealed upon release
- Prior to Ultimate, 0% of the characters had been clones of clones
- Prior to Cloud, 100% of DLC had been from existing companies in the series
- Prior to Wario, 0% of originally starting characters were later made unlockables
- Prior to Ken/Incineroar, 100% of non-E3 reveal trailers had been series-specific
- Prior to Ryu/Cloud, 100% of third-parties had close ties with Nintendo/Sakurai
- Prior to Shovel Knight, 0% of characters on the battlefield were from a western IP, or indie
Plus what Megadoomer said.

I could keep going, but playing the statistic game won't help your argument.

 

[Idon]

Not to mention Nintendo's higher-ups are the ones that make the selection for DLC, so that's already a large shift in mindset of character choices.

 

[Ornl]

- Prior to 4, 100% of the playable series represented in Smash had never been cut
- Prior to Ultimate, 100% of the bosses in the game had been Nintendo characters
- Prior to Simon/Richter, 100% of the third-parties had been unique characters
- Prior to Greninja, 100% of the Pokemon reps had not been solo starter Pokemon
- Prior to Diddy Kong, 100% of the playable characters had been created in Japan
- Prior to Ultimate, 100% of the games had characters officially unrevealed upon release
- Prior to Ultimate, 0% of the characters had been clones of clones
- Prior to Cloud, 100% of DLC had been from existing companies in the series
- Prior to Wario, 0% of originally starting characters were later made unlockables
- Prior to Ken/Incineroar, 100% of non-E3 reveal trailers had been series-specific
- Prior to Ryu/Cloud, 100% of third-parties had close ties with Nintendo/Sakurai
- Prior to Shovel Knight, 0% of characters on the battlefield were from a western IP, or indie
Plus what Megadoomer said.

I could keep going, but playing the statistic game won't help your argument.

You announce new appeared things. I announce that Erdrick conforms to traditions / generalities, although there may be exceptions.

 

[N3ON]

You announce new appeared things. I announce that Erdrick conforms to traditions / generalities, although there may be exceptions.

I'm not against Erdrick, I'm against using patterns and statistics to prove theories. Smash doesn't work like that.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What does this even supposed to mean?

I think he's saying that the inclusion of Steve would mark the first non-Japanese character from a non-Japanese series getting in smash and he doesn't really want that to happen. Other than that your guess is as good as mine.

 

[TheCJBrine]

You announce new appeared things. I announce that Erdrick conforms to traditions / generalities, although there may be exceptions.

It's not a tradition if it's an unintentional pattern.

The only "tradition," if it can be called as such, is probably keeping the original 12, and even that was going to be broken in Brawl and even Melee.

 

[SmasherMaster]

You announce new appeared things. I announce that Erdrick conforms to traditions / generalities, although there may be exceptions.

Like the tradition of a retro/hardware character being added in every Samsh sequel... Or the tradition that every Smash game adds characters from several new Nintendo IPs in each game (If you believe the idea that we are only getting third party characters.)... Or that peaceful/non-fighter characters can't be playable.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Makes me wonder if it really is just a matter of time in seeing a Western IP fighter join the fight as FP DLC, or if there's still some kind of hesitance in doing so on the Smash team's part. It may help that the DLC is being chosen by Nintendo for Ultimate, who may not have as much interest in keeping it to Japanese IPs for all we know. Even Sakurai only dismissed Banjo for Melee (and I guess Goldeneye's James Bond?) on the grounds of legal issues, not that they were Western (albeit they and Rare were closely associated with Nintendo at the time).

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Pokemon Direct is tomorrow. Watch that the next DLC fighter is a Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Pokemon Direct is tomorrow. Watch that the next DLC fighter is a Gen 8 Pokemon.

Considering that it's only 7 minutes and Gamefreak tends to opperate on a seperate schedule from the rest of Nintendo I highly doubt Smash will even be mentioned in the direct.

 

[Dukemon]

Considering that it's only 7 minutes and Gamefreak tends to opperate on a seperate schedule from the rest of Nintendo I highly doubt Smash will even be mentioned in the direct.

They will announce the new item Smash Ball t o catch them all in Gen 8

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Considering that it's only 7 minutes and Gamefreak tends to opperate on a seperate schedule from the rest of Nintendo I highly doubt Smash will even be mentioned in the direct.

I agree

But anything is possible I mean what if they announce gen 8 and then challenger pack two that belongs to one of the legendaries or starters or a ultra beast if more come in this of generation 8

It’s checkmate if gen 8 comes out in 2019 that almost locks a Pokémon as one of the pack known Nintendo with the promotions and that gen 8 has Ben in development for a while the packs were chosen easily showed the blueprints of the Pokémon just like they did with greninja and incineroar

 

[RileyXY1]

I agree

But anything is possible I mean what if they announce gen 8 and then challenger pack two that belongs to one of the legendaries or starters or a ultra beast if more come in this of generation 8

It’s checkmate if gen 8 comes out in 2019 that almost locks a Pokémon as one of the pack known Nintendo with the promotions

I don't think that a Smash character will be revealed in this Direct.

 

[Namasura]

Makes me wonder if it really is just a matter of time in seeing a Western IP fighter join the fight as FP DLC, or if there's still some kind of hesitance in doing so on the Smash team's part. It may help that the DLC is being chosen by Nintendo for Ultimate, who may not have as much interest in keeping it to Japanese IPs for all we know. Even Sakurai only dismissed Banjo for Melee (and I guess Goldeneye's James Bond?) on the grounds of legal issues, not that they were Western (albeit they and Rare were closely associated with Nintendo at the time).

I am pretty sure we are reaching a point where a western IP is inevitable and I would be impressed if one western IP isn't part of the DLC, though I still think its possible they might go Japan only again.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Wonder who are the biggest potential contenders... Steve? DOOM Guy? Crash would be really cool.

 

[Robdelia]

At this point I've given up on trying to find reasons why Erdrick and Steve will never make it into Smash and I've come to terms with the fact that if Sakurai wants someone in, they'll have a cool moveset and feel like a valuable addition to the game.
Thank you all for coming to my TED talk and next I will explain why Banjo Kazooie is a lock for DLC because I said so.

 

[Deleted member]

- Prior to Greninja, 100% of the Pokemon reps had not been solo starter Pokemon

Technically we had before . Just saying.

Yeah, he was originally part of a set, but he DID make a solo debut afterward.
With that being revealed before Greninja.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Resident Evil just passed 90 million series sales. I really hope we get some RE in Smash soon, it’s the highest selling Japanese series not represented yet.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

well gen 8 coming out this year so

if they saw the plans of the starter/legendary or whatever pokemon just like greninja and incineroar

im sorry you gonna have to grit you teeth and accept this package as the corrin of smash ultimate (piranha plant is the wtf character of ultimate not the hated addition)

as a matter of fact gen 8 would definitively not be in rotation by smash 6 that would be a gen 9 pokemon

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Watch that we get a TH Fire Emblem character and Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[RileyXY1]

If I had to choose between a FE 3 Houses character and a Gen 8 Pokemon to join the roster, I would choose the Gen 8 Pokemon.

 

[Ultomato]

If I had to choose between a FE 3 Houses character and a Gen 8 Pokemon to join the roster, I would choose the Gen 8 Pokemon.

Just passing through don't mind me

 

[Iko MattOrr]

If the rumors about Nintendo and Microsoft planning something together are true, then I can definitely see Master Chief in Smash, but I doubt it will be a DLC for this game, maybe he'll be the big name revealed during the first announcement of the next game (he's a big gaming icon almost on the level of Sonic at the times of Brawl).

As a DLC for ultimate maybe it can happen, all things considered, but I'm sure that they would prefer to save him for a bigger purpose (new Smash game).
And by the way, didn't one of the developers of Halo deconfirm Master Chief as a Smash DLC in a tweet?

Imo, he's the only FPS rep who would be fine in Smash without looking out of place, and I'm not against his addition (Either him or some Overwatch character - they aren't much different than ARMS characters, in fact I think that ARMS was actually influenced by Overwatch... but Overwatch is already getting old, young people now play Fortnite and Apex, so probably Overwatch is going to fade into shadows and become completely irrelevant in the near future, if that didn't happen already).

Though for this to happen, first the rumors about Microsoft and Nintendo have to become true, if not, then there is no chance IMO.

If Microsoft and Nintendo will make a deal by the time of the next Smash game, expect Master Chief at the reveal, Steve revealed later, and maybe Banjo Kazooie as a secret character or DLC if they care about the fans. (In the meanwhile I hope for some Age of Empires content, even just a stage would be awesome, or something funny like the priest as an assist trophy XD wololooo)

 

[TheCJBrine]

If Microsoft and Nintendo will make a deal by the time of the next Smash game, expect Master Chief at the reveal, Steve revealed later, and maybe Banjo Kazooie as a secret character or DLC if they care about the fans. (In the meanwhile I hope for some Age of Empires content, even just a stage would be awesome, or something funny like the priest as an assist trophy XD wololooo)

If the rumors are true, they could've been planning this for a while, given Phil Spencer going to lunch with Nintendo and him almost saying something before stopping himself in an interview last year - that something being related to Nintendo as he was talking about them, "we're a big third-party on their-".

We could very well get a Microsoft-owned character in Ultimate, but I'd expect either Steve for Minecraft seeming to have started bringing them closer, or Banjo-Kazooie since they were originally Nintendo characters/if the rumors surrounding them are true.

edit: there's also the XBox Live on Switch stuff and Gamepass.

 

[dezeray112]

If there were a Microsoft rep, my choices would be between Steve of Minecraft, Banjo & Kazooie or Jago/Fulgore from Killer Instinct.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Personally?

Battletoads or Cuphead.

Then I guess Steve or Banjo.

 

[Pyra]

Personally?

Battletoads or Cuphead.

Then I guess Steve or Banjo.

Honestly I'm fine with any of those.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I’d love Chief but I feel they’d save him for Smash 6. Revealing that game alongside Master Chief would be huge news.

I think it’s down to Banjo or Steve. As of late, I’m leaning more towards Banjo. Phil Spencer knows how much the fan wants Banjo, so he would know that Banjo would sell very well.

I also think Banjo may be getting a new game soon. He’s been getting a slow push recently much like Battletoads had before their new game was announced.

New merch, references in Sea of Thieves, a big focus in Rare Replay, prominent in Xbone backwards compatibility & GamePass marketing, etc...

Banjo as a fighter (with stage & music of course). Then some Minecraft content through a stage, Mii costumes & Spirits.