Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Opossum]

Let me preface this that Phoenix Wright is 2nd most wanted character and I have no intention of downplaying his legacy, but I don’t see why Phoenix is considered by the wider speculation community a front runner while Professor Layton is not.

Both series have similar qualities and history of being 3rd party champions of Nintendo’s portable consoles, but the Layton series is actually bigger than the Ace Attorney series. To but it into perspective, Professor Layton has sold 17 million while Ace Attorney has sold 7 million, there’s a reason why in their crossover game Professor Layton’s name comes first. Not saying sales are the end all, but it seems odd to me that the Layton series is not considered on the same level as Ace Attorney.

I’ll chalk it up to more people who speculate being unfamiliar with Layton due to his games being more casual.

Part of it likely comes down to ownership. Not that I think Level 5 would be hard to work with, mind you, but the fact that Capcom's already fully on board could help ease negotiations and make a Capcom character like Phoenix seem more likely.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If it's 100% not Tracer, then Monster Hunter is the last predicable newcomer that hasn't been shot down.
And if (s)he gets deconfirmed too, I will throw in the towel and say that Nintendo got me.

I always said Monster Hunter was likely gonna be FP5. I'll be LMAO if he's actually FP5.

 

[Plank08]

If it's 100% not Tracer, then Monster Hunter is the last predicable newcomer that hasn't been shot down.
And if (s)he gets deconfirmed too, I will throw in the towel and say that Nintendo got me.

I’d rather go with Phoinex Wright or Nightmare or Dark souls

 

[P.Kat]

>People complain about their favourite characters not getting in
>Once their in, they start complaining that they didn't get pampered as much as certain other characters did.



At least their... y'know, in...

I sure wish I could even have the chance to complain that Amaterasu wasn't pampered enough. People get their characters picked over hundreds of other and it still isn't enough.

if there are things with the character that bug you fine, constructive criticism is welcomed, but constructive criticism can easily turn to complaining if you not careful.

It's clear that Sakurai puts his all into all his character; into this game, even to the point that his health deteriorates.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

Let me preface this that Phoenix Wright is 2nd most wanted character and I have no intention of downplaying his legacy, but I don’t see why Phoenix is considered by the wider speculation community a front runner while Professor Layton is not.

Both series have similar qualities and history of being 3rd party champions of Nintendo’s portable consoles, but the Layton series is actually bigger than the Ace Attorney series. To but it into perspective, Professor Layton has sold 17 million while Ace Attorney has sold 7 million, there’s a reason why in their crossover game Professor Layton’s name comes first. Not saying sales are the end all, but it seems odd to me that the Layton series is not considered on the same level as Ace Attorney.

I’ll chalk it up to more people who speculate being unfamiliar with Layton due to his games being more casual.

This is why both of them should get in at the same time, and I know Sakurai would want that

 

[Wunderwaft]

From what I’ve been told, the Omster Hunter team isn’t a huge fan of taking the focus on MH and placing it on the Hunter and away from the monsters. That could very reasonably be why we haven’t gotten a playable hunter yet.

That was only the case for Marvel vs Capcom 3 mind you. The years passed and they changed their opinions on this and allowed a playable hunter in Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Let me preface this that Phoenix Wright is 2nd most wanted character and I have no intention of downplaying his legacy, but I don’t see why Phoenix is considered by the wider speculation community a front runner while Professor Layton is not.

Both series have similar qualities and history of being 3rd party champions of Nintendo’s portable consoles, but the Layton series is actually bigger than the Ace Attorney series. To but it into perspective, Professor Layton has sold 17 million while Ace Attorney has sold 7 million, there’s a reason why in their crossover game Professor Layton’s name comes first. Not saying sales are the end all, but it seems odd to me that the Layton series is not considered on the same level as Ace Attorney.

I’ll chalk it up to more people who speculate being unfamiliar with Layton due to his games being more casual.

A number of issues. Chief among them being that Level 5 ran Layton into the ground pretty quickly and it has largely fallen out of the conversation with not much in the way of newer titles, and the move away from Professor Layton himself to Lady Layton further complicates his status in recent years. Level 5 as a company doesn't have the best record of being responsible with its IPs either and are looking increasingly like they're not going to make it much longer without a big hit or some serious intervention (over investing in Yokai Watch will do that).

Phoenix also specifically seems to just resonate with people who play the games more (at least from what I've seen around the Smash communities) and he's been around longer in addition to also having previously appeared in a fighting game that got him a lot of positive attention for future crossover appearance. I think UMvC3 was really the catalyst that pushed Phoenix even further, where Layton has never had such an opportunity to develop in a fighting game thus far. Plus, I do see a lot more people itching for more Ace Attorney games where it seems like Lady Layton came and went without much fanfare.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Part of it likely comes down to ownership. Not that I think Level 5 would be hard to work with, mind you, but the fact that Capcom's already fully on board could help ease negotiations and make a Capcom character like Phoenix seem more likely.

True, I could see why that might make a character seem likely, but it’s not like Smash DLC hasn’t introduced new companies before. We just got two new companies with Microsoft and SNK so I don’t see why being an already established company should be considered that much of a leg up anymore.

 

[Curious Villager]

Let me preface this that Phoenix Wright is 2nd most wanted character and I have no intention of downplaying his legacy, but I don’t see why Phoenix is considered by the wider speculation community a front runner while Professor Layton is not.

Both series have similar qualities and history of being 3rd party champions of Nintendo’s portable consoles, but the Layton series is actually bigger than the Ace Attorney series. To but it into perspective, Professor Layton has sold 17 million while Ace Attorney has sold 7 million, there’s a reason why in their crossover game Professor Layton’s name comes first. Not saying sales are the end all, but it seems odd to me that the Layton series is not considered on the same level as Ace Attorney.

I’ll chalk it up to more people who speculate being unfamiliar with Layton due to his games being more casual.

I think it probably has more to do with ownership more than anything, Capcom already got its foot through the door so people have an easier time seeing Phoenix making it in whereas Level-5 has yet to be acknowledged in any way, they weren't even credited anywhere for Eight's inclusion despite him coming from a game that they developed, though strangely enough, not even Level-5 themselves acknowledged his inclusion or the other Hero they worked with being featured in his Final Smash, whereas they did acknowledge one of the game's tenth anniversary at some point this year.

Probably also because Phoenix already appeared in a fighting game before so people have an easier time envisioning his potential moveset over Layton.
Layton is probably a bit more of an open canvas but that shouldn't really hold him back as a lot of past newcomers with even less to work with have shown.
We even have a moveset for him over at his support thread which may be possible to work with while still remaining faithful to his games.

Level-5 is thankfully very much like Capcom though as they are always very open to the idea of crossovers and collaborations and Hino has already greenlit Layton for Smash on multiple occasions so I don't see Sakurai having too much of a hard time acquiring Layton for Smash if he wanted to include the character.

 

[RileyXY1]

Monster Hunter would require a rework of the games' code because the songs that are in the game from the series are in the misc. section (all franchises without a fighter have this distinction with the exception of Animal Crossing in Brawl). They would have to move all the already existing songs from the misc. section to their own dedicated section.

 

[Deleted member]

Monster Hunter would require a rework of the games' code because the songs that are in the game from the series are in the misc. section (all franchises without a fighter have this distinction with the exception of Animal Crossing in Brawl). They would have to move all the already existing songs from the misc. section to their own dedicated section.

If songs are setup similar to how they were in Smash 4, this isn't nearly as difficult as you're making it out to be. It would certainly be odd, but changing a song category should be as easy as changing a value on a drop down list.

 

[Curious Villager]

A number of issues. Chief among them being that Level 5 ran Layton into the ground pretty quickly and it has largely fallen out of the conversation with not much in the way of newer titles, and the move away from Professor Layton himself to Lady Layton further complicates his status in recent years. Level 5 as a company doesn't have the best record of being responsible with its IPs either and are looking increasingly like they're not going to make it much longer without a big hit or some serious intervention (over investing in Yokai Watch will do that).

Phoenix also specifically seems to just resonate with people who play the games more (at least from what I've seen around the Smash communities) and he's been around longer in addition to also having previously appeared in a fighting game that got him a lot of positive attention for future crossover appearance. I think UMvC3 was really the catalyst that pushed Phoenix even further, where Layton has never had such an opportunity to develop in a fighting game thus far. Plus, I do see a lot more people itching for more Ace Attorney games where it seems like Lady Layton came and went without much fanfare.

Layton's mystery journey is still very much a part of the Layton series, I don't see why the fact that the series having a new main protagonist would somehow invalidate Layton in any way, especially since he's still being promoted front and center right next to his daughter to this day. Their practically costars more than anything.

And the reason why Lady Layton didn't receive much fanfare was because the game itself is a very controversial entry within the Layton fanbase. Its more or less the black sheep of the Layton franchise, that doesn't mean that people don't want to see a new entry for the series. In fact there has been more demand for a new Layton game to the point that fans themselves have taken it upon them to develop a whole fangame themselves. There is definitely still a lot of interest in seeing the franchise return.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Ironically, Joker works pretty well without his Gimmick, hero is just badly designed. From understanding Banjo, he is a character who barley has throw combos, he has flexible air mobility (cause of three jumps), and also has a campy playstyke from the bombs.

Dood, that's not BAD design. That's a different playstyle.
If you prefer your character to be combo heavy without abusable projectiles that's your preference.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dood, that's not BAD design. That's a different playstyle.
If you prefer your character to be combo heavy without abusable projectiles that's your preference.

Bad design is when I can't mash the smash attack or special buttons to win instantly tho

 

[Deleted member]

Bad design is when I can't mash the smash attack or special buttons to win instantly tho

That means Hero is the best designed character in the game.

 

[RouffWestie]

The best designed character in the game is Kirby because he gains access to more moves than any other character as more characters are added to the roster.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That means Hero is the best designed character in the game.

I know you're meming but I love how people **** themselves over Hero when his inherent design forces you to think and be good at the game.


Except crits but in my experience you only get them when the opponent's already at kill percent, not to mention the smash attacks aren't even all too good

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The best designed character in the game is Kirby because he gains access to more moves than any other character as more characters are added to the roster.

If Kirby could chose a hat and stick to it, Monado would be the top of that tier list.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I know you're meming but I love how people **** themselves over Hero when his inherent design forces you to think and be good at the game.


Except crits but in my experience you only get them when the opponent's already at kill percent, not to mention the smash attacks aren't even all too good

Yeah but I don't know how to shield or read attacks so uhhh Hero broken Thwack bad

 

[Slime Master]

Hero's moveset is pretty genius when you think of it from the context of being made for DQ fans. Part of what makes DQ so successful is that it's known for being a simple game to get into that anyone can play, and while I wouldn't call Hero a simple character by any means, the casual environment where he thrives is definitely something anyone can play and the luck element makes him pretty beginner friendly despite the relative complexity.

The other thing is that the character is forced to play slowly and methodically, which is exactly how turn based JRPGs play.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Yeah but I don't know how to shield or read attacks so uhhh Hero broken Thwack bad

I literally can't read so I don't know what he's selecting in the menu

 

[Night Gale]

How the f*** did the discussion get derailed to both praising and criticizing DLC fighter #2's move list?

Let's steer this conversation back on course. Drive us in the right direction, Reiko-sama.

 

[Dukemon102]

I literally can't read so I don't know what he's selecting in the menu

Something something language barrier BAN something something

 

[GoodGrief741]

Layton's mystery journey is still very much a part of the Layton series, I don't see why the fact that the series having a new main protagonist would somehow invalidate Layton in any way, especially since he's still being promoted front and center right next to his daughter to this day. Their practically costars more than anything.

And the reason why Lady Layton didn't receive much fanfare was because the game itself is a very controversial entry within the Layton fanbase. Its more or less the black sheep of the Layton franchise, that doesn't mean that people don't want to see a new entry for the series. In fact there has been more demand for a new Layton game to the point that fans themselves have taken it upon them to develop a whole fangame themselves. There is definitely still a lot of interest in seeing the franchise return.

There's a fangame? How is this the first time I'm hearing of this?

 

[Deleted member]

Something something language barrier BAN something something

One person at my school used to have his setup in German, but thanks to Hero, we had to ban all language options except English and Dutch (the spell list is not translated). At least Dorpsbewoner mains aren't affected.

 

[blackghost]

I just think Hero and Banjo could’ve been executed way better than what we had. Sure the way I thought Hero should’ve been designed sounded boring, but they had the intentions of making Hero fun while reasonable. Banjo’s gimmick was legitimately awful, it felt like Sakurai was done with working on him since the rough draft of the character design.

when people in these threads clamo for nostalgic characters there is way less to pull from to actually make them interesting. for example, it took 4 games for game and watch to be interesting to play. I pull for modern characters because usually Sakurai doesnt have to think of a kit off his head he can just choose what to implement.
Hero represents his series well. randomness is part of all rpg games. just like inputs are part of action and fighting game characters movesets.
I may make some people mad but theres only so much banjo was gonna do. hes a platform character with no new games. If mario had to be designed with only the core platformers being used as reference he'd struggle as well to be fun to play.

 

[Curious Villager]

There's a fangame? How is this the first time I'm hearing of this?

Its still in development, its called Professor Layton and the Unbreakable Nightmare developed by Team Top Hat. Its looking pretty promising so far from what I've seen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I literally can't read so I don't know what he's selecting in the menu

Holy **** you guys it's Jared, 19!

One person at my school used to have his setup in German, but thanks to Hero, we had to ban all language options except English and Dutch (the spell list is not translated). At least Dorpsbewoner mains aren't affected.

We actually put the settings to German for ****s and giggles a while, solely to **** with my Command Menu. It wasn't even all too bad as I figured out most of the spells by experimentation and only lost cause we played 6 players on Jungle Japes

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Layton's mystery journey is still very much a part of the Layton series, I don't see why the fact that the series having a new main protagonist would somehow invalidate Layton in any way, especially since he's still being promoted front and center right next to his daughter to this day. Their practically costars more than anything.

And the reason why Lady Layton didn't receive much fanfare was because the game itself is a very controversial entry within the Layton fanbase. Its more or less the black sheep of the Layton franchise. In fact there has been more demand for a new Layton game to the point that fans themselves have taken it upon them to develop a whole fangame themselves. There is definitely still a lot of interest in seeing the franchise return.

But it undeniably does complicate the situation when a series pivots to a new character, even as the daughter of Professor Layton proper, at least for people who are less aware of the titles or have fallen off after years and just see a new Layton game advertised through Lady Layton as opposed to the Professor Layton they may have once known. That sort of decision does tend to effect perception of your series and its characters.

And that's kind of my point. Lady Layton came and went without fanfare and stands as the most recent game in the series after most people would agree that Layton got a bit saturated quite quickly in the DS era. Much like Yokai Watch, Level 5 tripled down on a successful IP until the luster wore off and people just became less interested (I knew several people who just got behind on the Layton games and just stopped caring because they were coming out so frequently). I don't think Level 5 has really done much to rehabilitate that image, and Lady Layton being controversial like you said further contributes to Layton as a whole just being less of a presence in people's minds. A black sheep as the most recent release combined with how pretty much mishandled the series was in terms of its sudden rise to success means it falls further and further out of favor in the public consciousness. I mean seriously, the first 4 Layton games were released in a 2 year period, and then you had Layton go without a release for 4 years to land on Lady Layton after Arazan Legacy. That sort of situation will hurt any franchise with over-exposure followed by sudden lack of exposure.

Meanwhile, compare that to Ace Attorney, which regularly has crossover appearances in other titles (Thanks in large part due to how Capcom operates), gets his games re-released with a fair amount of fanfare every couple of years, and hasn't really seen the same dropoff that I know Layton experienced at any point. It's just been an overall more consistent IP that Capcom has managed better than Level 5 has managed Layton. And just genuinely, I see more of the Smash fan base rallying around Phoenix Wright than I do around Layton at this point.

I think Layton has a chance and certainly still has fans as you pointed out, but I'm just trying to explain why Layton seems so much less favored in speculation these days (and honestly both of them have suffered from the whole, "Wait, we can get which third party characters now?" thing that makes people less inclined to support the "more traditionally Nintendo third parties").

 

[Wunderwaft]

Alright time to ask a fun question.

Assuming the next fighter is not from Capcom and Bandai Namco, who do you feel is the most likely character?

 

[Night Gale]

A2.

Dorpsbewoner.

I need to mess around with the other languages more because goddamn I wish I knew about this sooner.

 

[PeridotGX]

One person at my school used to have his setup in German, but thanks to Hero, we had to ban all language options except English and Dutch (the spell list is not translated). At least Dorpsbewoner mains aren't affected.

RIP Dunkle Samus

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Apparently in Dutch Mii Gunner is Mii Cyborg.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

A2.



I need to mess around with the other languages more because goddamn I wish I knew about this sooner.

Dorpsbewoner was shown off in the final Smash direct last year though lmao

 

[MooMew64]

Alright time to ask a fun question.

Assuming the next fighter is not from Capcom and Bandai Namco, who do you feel is the most likely character?

I'm currently on the 2B train. If we go real bonkers with FP5, I could see Reimu as well.

 

[Nightguything]

Guys you got it all wrong, FP5 will be the friends we made along the way.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Guys you got it all wrong, FP5 will be the friends we made along the way.

Oh **** Luffy confirmed, one step closer to making Super Smash Flash HD a reality!

 

[Deleted member]

Alright time to ask a fun question.

Assuming the next fighter is not from Capcom and Bandai Namco, who do you feel is the most likely character?

Three Houses.

 

[MooMew64]

Oh **** Luffy confirmed, one step closer to making Super Smash Flash HD a reality!

Can't wait for the Game Awards to start and as the lights dim, we hear "Kaizoku ou ni ore wa naru!" and everyone has visible confusion.

 

[Dukemon102]

Oh **** Luffy confirmed, one step closer to making Super Smash Flash HD a reality!

After all this years. We finally know what the One Piece is... a Smash invitation!!