Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[TheCJBrine]

I'm mainly talking about the Smash Bubble. A bubble that is almost universally wrong about most things if leaks aren't there to guide them.

You've got a point, though that doesn't seem like a good reason a character won't get in.

Tales of Symphonia sold pretty well, it even got a sequel, and has had 15 to grow its legacy, not to mention being a highly demanded character who even got a Mii Costume last time around.

Lloyd won't get literally who'd, I can assure you.

That sounds good, then.

 

[Deleted member]

Calling Hero obvious is absolute hindsight. Hero became obvious after leaks and a datamine. As a DQ supporter since the early days of Smash Wii U discussion, there were plenty of people saying it wouldn't happen even during the time Hero was rumored. I'd argue calling Banjo obvious is bull**** too considering Steve was the front runner for Microsoft since last August up until a week before Banjo's reveal.

Isabelle may have been obvious, but she was pegged as an Echo, not unique. A Unique Isabelle was absolutely not an obvious guess.

Incineroar was not obvious prior to leaks, that honor would go to Decidueye.

The only one I'll give you is Ken, but all of the Echoes were obvious and there's a big difference between an Echo and a Unique.

Steve was on the downswing long before Banjo leaked. I recall Banjo being considered by many to be a serious possibility at least as far back as March, when discussion around Minecraft started to grow sketchy and Banjo started popping up more from people affiliated with Microsoft.
And we didn't know anything about Isa either way, just that she was going to be coming, and given that she's been consistently popular since New Leaf she wasn't exactly a hard guess.

 

[Icedragonadam]

And Namco is putting a lot of effort into marketing Tales of Arise to the West. Having a Tales of rep in Smash would help a lot to promote it, especially if it's at the Game Awards where Arise is pretty much guaranteed to be shown at.

 

[Mastermiine]

Hey guys, I know this is off topic but what TV brands are the best? My TV just broke and want to get one for black Friday. My budget is $300.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I've seen several people predict Isabelle getting in. She's a literal breakout star and is constantly featured in Nintendo merchandise.

I agree Isabelle was obvious, but as someone who supported her, people didn't give her a chance until Verg said her name. Even then people were convinced she'd be an echo for sure.

There was constant arguments that she is "too pacifist" to work or generally people just dismissed Animal Crossing.

 

[perfectchaos83]

You've got a point, though that doesn't seem like a good reason a character won't get in.

All I'm really saying is that this fanbase has a bad habit of reading the room wrong. After E3, a lot of people were thinking RE was a foregone conclusion. Since Pete Hines said "We talked to Nintendo about Smash" People thought Doom was a foregone conclusion. I'm trying my best to not jump to conclusions and, thus far, I've been more correct than wrong this DLC cycle which is the most I've ever been correct about Smash during any period in time. As it stands, I'm sticking to my gut and I don't think Lloyd is #5.

 

[N3ON]

Isabelle has been the face of AC since New Leaf, Incin was an open secret among insiders for months and we always get a new Pokemon, Hero was rumored for nearly a year before his official reveal and was datamined when Plant came, and Banjo was the obvious Microsoft pick after Steve/Minecraft talk started to lean more towards meaning nothing.

It doesn't count when the character leaks, and if it does, Simon and Ridley should be there as well. You have to gauge expectations from beforehand. Otherwise, yeah, it's obvious we'd get Duck Hunt when the ESRB broke, but before that, hardly.

Incineroar was not obvious until Verg named him. Most people thought we'd get Decidueye, but the fact that it was split four, even five ways shows things were not obvious.

Hero, again, was only obvious once the signs started pointing towards him, with Verg narrowing things down, and the datamine. Beforehand, when it was just a "Square character" people were arguing about Sora and Geno and Slime. Probably Lara Croft too. Even Neku, back when the port was recent. And before that, people were barely even talking about DQ.

And Banjo was the obvious Microsoft pick after the Steve leak started to look like nothing? First of all, when was that? People were thinking Steve had a shot up until Banjo was revealed. Second, that's still predicated off leaks, even if they turned out to be false. Third, "the obvious Microsoft pick" takes getting a Microsoft character for granted, which itself was not obvious.

I maintain that the only "obvious" characters on that list were Isabelle and Ken. But even Isabelle seems contentious (even though she shouldn't have been, a lot of people were calling her inclusion before Ultimate was even announced), and Ken, who really only became obvious once echoes were a thing. But then again, people also thought Shadow would be obvious.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Current Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC speculation:

Characters I'm feeling: Lloyd, Chosen Undead, Shulk, KOS-MOS, Dragonborn, Phoennnnnn...Suit Man.
Characters I'm not feeling: Sora, Geno, Spyro, Reimu, Ragna, Sol, Chell, Heavy, Amaterasu, Vieutifull Joe, any Nintendo character, anyone a leaker said wouldn't be in.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Current Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC speculation:

Characters I'm feeling: Lloyd, Chosen Undead, Shulk, KOS-MOS, Dragonborn, Phoennnnnn...Suit Man.
Characters I'm not feeling: Sora, Geno, Spyro, Reimu, Ragna, Sol, Chell, Heavy, Amaterasu, Vieutifull Joe, any Nintendo character, anyone a leaker said wouldn't be in.

If you would of said this pre-Brawl, you would of been flayed alive.
My, how the times have changed

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Isabelle has been the face of AC since New Leaf, Incin was an open secret among insiders for months and we always get a new Pokemon, Hero was rumored for nearly a year before his official reveal and was datamined when Plant came, and Banjo was the obvious Microsoft pick after Steve/Minecraft talk started to lean more towards meaning nothing.

Everyone was expecting Decidueye over Incineroar since that guy is objectively better.

I wouldn't exactly call Lloyd obvious, would the majority of the audience know him? It'd probably be a Terry situation (except hopefully with less or no vitriol), even if he's still decently known or well-known in certain areas.

And, really, I don't see what's so obvious about him regardless, it's not like there's not any other Namco characters or others they could go with as well.

Most of Lloyd's fans are old otaku who played the GameCube when it was new, so to younger smash fans he would in fact be a literally who.

 

[Deleted member]

Current Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DLC speculation:

Characters I'm feeling: Lloyd, Chosen Undead, Shulk, KOS-MOS, Dragonborn, Phoennnnnn...Suit Man.
Characters I'm not feeling: Sora, Geno, Spyro, Reimu, Ragna, Sol, Chell, Heavy, Amaterasu, Vieutifull Joe, any Nintendo character, anyone a leaker said wouldn't be in.

I've got a bad feeling about this if Sabi just waltzes over, makes another tweet, and says that none of the above "feeling" characters are ever gonna make it in as FP5. Considering the circumstances, it could be a likely case.

If it were really, then we've got nothing left to speculate about since nearly all of our likely candidates ain't gonna make it.

What an eventful week it was.

 

[Deleted member]

Everyone was expecting Decidueye over Incineroar since that guy is objectively better.

Back before December 7th I might still have agreed with you but now I'm too busy hitting people with 70+% damage Alolan Whips to care

 

[Sysreq]

Most of Lloyd's fans are old otaku who played the GameCube when it was new, so to younger smash fans he would in fact be a literally who.

Sounds similar to a certain puppet.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Back before December 7th I might still have agreed with you but now I'm too busy hitting people with 70+% damage Alolan Whips to care

This gives me an interesting question. In hind sight, would people like Incineroar better, or what would likely be zoner #17?

I've got a bad feeling about this if Sabi just waltzes over, makes another tweet, and says that none of the above "feeling" characters are ever gonna make it in as FP5. Considering the circumstances, it could be a likely case.

If it were really, then we've got nothing left to speculate about since nearly all of our likely candidates ain't gonna make it.

What an eventful week it was.

At this point either no one would believer her ow everyone would be like "So...are we not getting FP5 then?".

 

[Deleted member]

This gives me an interesting question. In hind sight, would people like Incineroar better, or what would likely be zoner #17?

I love Incineroar but I also main Banjo, a character who spends most of his time zoning and fishing for setups so maybe I'm not the best person to ask.

 

[Sysreq]

This gives me an interesting question. In hind sight, would people like Incineroar better, or what would likely be zoner #17?

Incineroar. I like my grass starters, but we have 3 Links and 2 Pits with bows amongst a plethora of other characters whose standard B is a projectile--I'm good on archers.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sounds similar to a certain puppet.

I dunno. I thought people knew our resident puppet fighter well enough. Super Mario Galaxy was a pretty big game after all.

 

[ZelDan]

Lloyd won't get literally who'd, I can assure you.

You have more faith in the Smash fanbase that I do, clearly...

 

[BernkastelWitch]

You have more faith in the Smash fanbase that I do, clearly...

Given how the Smash fanbase is, they'd "Literally Who" characters like Geno or Sora if they managed to get into Smash despite them being popular requests.

I feel like they'd even do that.

 

[N3ON]

If you would of said this pre-Brawl, you would of been flayed alive.
My, how the times have changed

Yep, just this past week has been, "Gordon Freeman? I guess we'll see! Oh, no, but maybe Dante! Could be! Guess not, but at least he still has a better chance than all the Resident Evil characters I wanted. :/ Oh, and now Ezio is out too!"

...

It looks like we're not in 2007 anymore, Toto.

I'm not sure how many people like us are left who can truly appreciate how much things have changed over time. I mean, remember the Nintendo purists? Like, the real ones? They're just... gone. Everyone else ate them. Now being a Nintendo purist is saying "I wish we could get one Nintendo character as DLC!".

It leaves me with a lot of... uh... feelings. :/

 

[MooMew64]

Lloyd won't get literally who'd, I can assure you.

Anyone who "literally who"'s Lloyd clearly never owned a Game Cube.

On the topic of Incineroar, I didn't like the idea at first but then loved it when I saw it in action. He's one of the better newcomers Ultimate had.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

honestly, I've been thinking Contra has been pretty slept on too. It was a huge iconic series on the NES much like Castlevania or Ninja gaiden (not in Smash of course, but Ryu was still someone that people have speculated over to death unlike Bill Rizer), Contra has had various games between multiple Nintendo and non-Nintendo systems, It has been a pretty influencial series, with how mnay games probably took some inspiration from it, and how it gave birth to the Konami code. Also important to note, is that Contra has been relevant to the Switch with stuff like the COntra collection and that new Contra game released on the system.

While Konami already has alot of content in Smash, the characters in the game they did include or bring back were all in base, not DLC, so if we are going with the idea that "a company only gets 1 character for the pass", then Contra isn't out of the running, much like SE still had Hero in the DLC despite them bringing back Cloud in the base roster.

Not saying Contra is likely or anything, but I wouldn't discount it either.

Speaking of SE, another series I'm surprised hasn't gotten a bit more discussion is the Mana series. Secret of Mana is generally put alongside the SNES greats (SMRPG, FFVI, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound...), and like Contra, Mana has made a presence on the Switch with the Mana collection and the Trials of mana remake in the works right now.

Granted, I don't really expect a Mana character to come in, especially if we do go with the "a company only gets 1 character for the pass" idea (personally I don't know if I'm 100% on board with it, but it's remained true thus far, so...). But hey, if people can still bring up 2B, then why not atleast toss the Mana series in the ring too I guess...

The issue with Contra is that past Hard Corps, only Contra 4 has been decent, and every other title released since 1994 (post Hard Corps) has been pretty much terrible and drug Contra's name further and further through the mud, especially with Rogue Corps this year showing just how maligned the series has become (and make no mistake Rogue Corps is legitimately one of the worst games of the year). Of the NES games to a survive a transition beyond the 2D era, Ninja Gaiden is the only one that managed to actually pull it off with any semblance of grace and success. It's the only missing NES series that managed to evolve successfully, and I think that's why it gets labeled as the "last NES franchise" to a lot of people. Bill Rizer is also just not that interesting of a character to make move sets out of given that Contra was straight up a game at its best when the gameplay was simple and you fired one gun in a few different directions. A Contra protagonist just doesn't really seem like the sort of character Sakurai is looking for, especially in light of yesterday's Resident Evil Spirits.

I just think there's a lot running against Contra in Smash.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

I don't think Decidueye was ever really expected over Incineroar, but people just so desperately wanted it to not be Incineroar that they were trying to will it into existence. >_>

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Anyone who "literally who"'s Lloyd clearly never owned a Game Cube.

Considering the GameCube's life ended in 2007 that could be quite a few people.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I don't think Decidueye was ever really expected over Incineroar, but people just so desperately wanted it to not be Incineroar that they were trying to will it into existence. >_>

No, people expected Decidueye.

 

[Ben Holt]

No, people expected Decidueye.

Can confirm. Hell, even a fake leak before the artstyle was shown had a video of Spring Man fighting Decidueye.
We thought they were shoe-ins.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think Decidueye was ever really expected over Incineroar, but people just so desperately wanted it to not be Incineroar that they were trying to will it into existence. >_>

From what I understand the west really liked Decidueye, and hated Incineroar even before the two were associated with Super Smash Bros.

EDIT: I've also heard Japan liked Incineroar best of the starters, but I dunno if that's true.

 

[MooMew64]

Considering the GameCube's life ended in 2007 that could be quite a few people.

And it's a dang shame. Game Cube was peckin' great, and had some of the best hidden gem 3rd parties a Nintendo console could ask for.

 

[Opossum]

Using a bow for one attack ≠ being a full archer.

There's a major difference between characters like Link and Pit, and characters like Decidueye and Claude.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Using a bow for one attack ≠ being a full archer.

There's a major difference between characters like Link and Pit, and characters like Decidueye and Claude.

Link and Pit are in Smash, Decidueye and Claude are not.

 

[Ben Holt]

From what I understand the west really liked Decidueye, and hated Incineroar even before the two were associated with Super Smash Bros.

I hated the idea of Incineroar. Not because I hated him, but because Decidueye was my favorite Grass starter EVER. He's a friggin' archer owl!
But I actually enjoy Incineroar's playstyle. So I have yet to be utterly disappointed by Ultimate.
I've grown up since my Brawl rant.

Using a bow for one attack ≠ being a full archer.

There's a major difference between characters like Link and Pit, and characters like Decidueye and Claude.

And Revali, the best Champion!

 

[Droodle]

The looks I get when I say Yuri has as good a shot at getting in as Lloyd.

HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION?! Yuri is WAY more popular within the Tales community, and he is the most relevant Tales protagonist currently due to ToV:DE coming out on modern consoles this year (unless you count Tales of Arise). Most of the "evidence" that backs Lloyd up also backs up Yuri. In fact, if we assume that the trademarked icons are for Smash; They fit Yuri WAY better as the book didn't get used as a save icon until Vesperia. Yet most people say that Lloyd is much more likely to get in due him getting a Mii Costume in Smash 4; even though that was BEFORE Yuri was even on a Nintendo console (barring Project X Zone).

And if a Project X Zone appearance wasn't good enough to get Dante any representation currently, I don't see how it was good enough to get Yuri representation back in Smash 4 over Lloyd.

SO AGAIN HOW IS IT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION TO SAY THAT THERE IS 50/50 CHANCE OF A TALES REP BEING YURI OR LLOYD?! I swear some people in the Smash speculation scene need to actually do their research.

 

[Ben Holt]

The looks I get when I say Yuri has as good a shot at getting in as Lloyd.

HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION?! Yuri is WAY more popular within the Tales community, and he is the most relevant Tales protagonist currently due to ToV:DE coming out on modern consoles this year (unless you count Tales of Arise). Most of the "evidence" that backs Lloyd up also backs up Yuri. In fact, if we assume that the trademarked icons are for Smash; They fit Yuri WAY better as the book didn't get used as a save icon until Vesperia. Yet most people say that Lloyd is much more likely to get in due him getting a Mii Costume in Smash 4; even though that was BEFORE Yuri was even on a Nintendo console (barring Project X Zone).

And if a Project X Zone appearance wasn't good enough to get Dante any representation currently, I don't see how it was good enough to get Yuri representation back in Smash 4 over Lloyd.

SO AGAIN HOW IS IT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION TO SAY THAT THERE IS 50/50 CHANCE OF A TALES REP BEING YURI OR LLOYD?! I swear some people in the Smash speculation scene need to actually do their research.

Because Sakurai publicly stated that Lloyd is the obvious Tales rep back when he was asked about the Mii Costume.

 

[perfectchaos83]

The looks I get when I say Yuri has as good a shot at getting in as Lloyd.

HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION?! Yuri is WAY more popular within the Tales community, and he is the most relevant Tales protagonist currently due to ToV:DE coming out on modern consoles this year (unless you count Tales of Arise). Most of the "evidence" that backs Lloyd up also backs up Yuri. In fact, if we assume that the trademarked icons are for Smash; They fit Yuri WAY better as the book didn't get used as a save icon until Vesperia. Yet most people say that Lloyd is much more likely to get in due him getting a Mii Costume in Smash 4; even though that was BEFORE Yuri was even on a Nintendo console (barring Project X Zone).

And if a Project X Zone appearance wasn't good enough to get Dante any representation currently, I don't see how it was good enough to get Yuri representation back in Smash 4 over Lloyd.

SO AGAIN HOW IS IT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION TO SAY THAT THERE IS 50/50 CHANCE OF A TALES REP BEING YURI OR LLOYD?! I swear some people in the Smash speculation scene need to actually do their research.

Because Nintendo fans like Lloyd better.

 

[Flyboy]

The looks I get when I say Yuri has as good a shot at getting in as Lloyd.

HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION?! Yuri is WAY more popular within the Tales community, and he is the most relevant Tales protagonist currently due to ToV:DE coming out on modern consoles this year (unless you count Tales of Arise). Most of the "evidence" that backs Lloyd up also backs up Yuri. In fact, if we assume that the trademarked icons are for Smash; They fit Yuri WAY better as the book didn't get used as a save icon until Vesperia. Yet most people say that Lloyd is much more likely to get in due him getting a Mii Costume in Smash 4; even though that was BEFORE Yuri was even on a Nintendo console (barring Project X Zone).

And if a Project X Zone appearance wasn't good enough to get Dante any representation currently, I don't see how it was good enough to get Yuri representation back in Smash 4 over Lloyd.

SO AGAIN HOW IS IT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION TO SAY THAT THERE IS 50/50 CHANCE OF A TALES REP BEING YURI OR LLOYD?! I swear some people in the Smash speculation scene need to actually do their research.

Yuri Lowell is dumb and a goober who thinks murder is fine and he smells bad

 

[ZelDan]

The issue with Contra is that past Hard Corps, only Contra 4 has been decent, and every other title released since 1994 (post Hard Corps) has been pretty much terrible and drug Contra's name further and further through the mud, especially with Rogue Corps this year showing just how maligned the series has become (and make no mistake Rogue Corps is legitimately one of the worst games of the year). Of the NES games to a survive a transition beyond the 2D era, Ninja Gaiden is the only one that managed to actually pull it off with any semblance of grace and success. It's the only missing NES series that managed to evolve successfully, and I think that's why it gets labeled as the "last NES franchise" to a lot of people. Bill Rizer is also just not that interesting of a character to make move sets out of given that Contra was straight up a game at its best when the gameplay was simple and you fired one gun in a few different directions. A Contra protagonist just doesn't really seem like the sort of character Sakurai is looking for, especially in light of yesterday's Resident Evil Spirits.

I just think there's a lot running against Contra in Smash.

I haven't played many Contra games beyond Hard Corps myself. What I have played was Shattered Soldier, which I recall not being a bad game, a really damn hard one, but not bad. I also played Contra Reborth which wasn't bad necessarily, but wasn't a game I really replayed that much.

As for Bill Rizer, I'd be lying if I said I have a hard time imagining what a moveset for him, but eh, if Sakurai could make work, then I'm sure Sakurai could make something work for a Contra character if he put enough thought into it. And honestly, while I brought up Bill Rizer, I have always had the idea that he could maybe have the "Bowser jr. treatment" and have alts of other ontra characters. there'd be Lance obviously, but maybe some Hard Corps characters would be incorporated, maybe the Probotectors for the European fans, maybe characters from later games past Contra's prime. maybe if some of the other characters had some sort of abilitues or weapons not found in earlier games, maybe they'd be added to the general moveset (Albeit nothing comes to mind right since, again, I haven't exactly played much beyond the classics).

As for the RE spirits, AFAIK we don't even know the reasons as to why they got the spirit treatment, so who knows if whatever things holding back RE would hold back Contra.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The looks I get when I say Yuri has as good a shot at getting in as Lloyd.

HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION?! Yuri is WAY more popular within the Tales community, and he is the most relevant Tales protagonist currently due to ToV:DE coming out on modern consoles this year (unless you count Tales of Arise). Most of the "evidence" that backs Lloyd up also backs up Yuri. In fact, if we assume that the trademarked icons are for Smash; They fit Yuri WAY better as the book didn't get used as a save icon until Vesperia. Yet most people say that Lloyd is much more likely to get in due him getting a Mii Costume in Smash 4; even though that was BEFORE Yuri was even on a Nintendo console (barring Project X Zone).

And if a Project X Zone appearance wasn't good enough to get Dante any representation currently, I don't see how it was good enough to get Yuri representation back in Smash 4 over Lloyd.

SO AGAIN HOW IS IT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION TO SAY THAT THERE IS 50/50 CHANCE OF A TALES REP BEING YURI OR LLOYD?! I swear some people in the Smash speculation scene need to actually do their research.

Because I know Lloyd and not Yuri so your opinion is objectively wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

The looks I get when I say Yuri has as good a shot at getting in as Lloyd.

HOW IS THAT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION?! Yuri is WAY more popular within the Tales community, and he is the most relevant Tales protagonist currently due to ToV:DE coming out on modern consoles this year (unless you count Tales of Arise). Most of the "evidence" that backs Lloyd up also backs up Yuri. In fact, if we assume that the trademarked icons are for Smash; They fit Yuri WAY better as the book didn't get used as a save icon until Vesperia. Yet most people say that Lloyd is much more likely to get in due him getting a Mii Costume in Smash 4; even though that was BEFORE Yuri was even on a Nintendo console (barring Project X Zone).

And if a Project X Zone appearance wasn't good enough to get Dante any representation currently, I don't see how it was good enough to get Yuri representation back in Smash 4 over Lloyd.

SO AGAIN HOW IS IT A CONTROVERSIAL OPINION TO SAY THAT THERE IS 50/50 CHANCE OF A TALES REP BEING YURI OR LLOYD?! I swear some people in the Smash speculation scene need to actually do their research.

Yuri has one sword and Lloyd has two which makes him approximately 200% cooler

 

[Kotor]

I don't think Decidueye was ever really expected over Incineroar, but people just so desperately wanted it to not be Incineroar that they were trying to will it into existence. >_>

Wasn't it more because Decidueye fulfilled the non-existent "starter trio" quota? People definitely ignored Incineroar and Primarina at first because "we already have Charizard and Greninja."

 

[Droodle]

Because Sakurai publicly stated that Lloyd is the obvious Tales rep back when he was asked about the Mii Costume.

Again, that was before Yuri had his games on a Nintendo console. I'VE STATED THAT SO MANY TIMES.