Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[PSIGuy]

There is nothing a Three Houses character can bring to the table that another character couldn’t also bring while including a new franchise and world into the game.

 

[Opossum]

There is nothing a Three Houses character can bring to the table that another character couldn’t also bring while including a new franchise and world into the game.

Then give examples.

 

[Deleted member]

There is nothing a Three Houses character can bring to the table that another character couldn’t also bring while including a new franchise and world into the game.

No other series can bring us God Shattering Star, so this argument is objectively false.

 

[Droodle]

Listen all I'm saying is that you can't add more Fire Emblem and completely ignore Xenoblade again.

-Rex and Pyra?
-Adam and Mythra?
-Lora and Jin?
-ELMA AND GUNDAM?
-MALOS THE TANK ENGINE?

That said I'm personally on the Boar prince and Claude's side. Byleth's whip sword would be cool, but Edelgard would probably play like a heavier Ike which would be meh.

 

[Deleted member]

People either hate Corrin because waaaah Fire Emblem got another character before my most wanted or because Fates is Very Divisive

That's why the play is to never play Fates so your view of Corrin is never tainted

 

[Ivander]

That would be cool. In fact, I like Corrin, I don't get why people hated him/her a lot when it's the most unique character from the franchise in the roster. Robin is unique too but I don't like his/her moveset too much.
Is it just really because it's an avatar and not an actual character?

No, it's because Fates had alot of bad writing and Corrin was no exception. And in the Smash fanbase case, it's because "My character deserved to be in over another Fire Emblem character".
In Fire Emblem Warriors and Heroes, Corrin is a decent character and like-able due to having better writing. And for those in the Smash fanbase who look past them being from Fire Emblem, they are a chainsaw-sword wielding warrior that can change into a dragon.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Hmm, you know one thing that really baffles me with FE content in Smash? The lack of a boss.

No, seriously: after Dracula and Rathalos were revealed, a FE boss was one of the first things that popped into my head (specifically, Black Knight or Grima). I wonder why they never got a boss while we got Galleom back instead and Marx is the other new Nintendo boss in the game.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I never played a Fire emblem game, I know the franchise only because of Smash, that's why I never had a problem with Corrin and it seemed a cool character to me.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No other series can bring us God Shattering Star, so this argument is objectively false.

RUS SA RES BASA BAUUUUUUUUC. Honest to god one of the only songs to potentially make me lose my **** in a Smash trailer outside of a GG track

 

[Schnee117]

People should stop thinking of characters as functions and actually think of them as characters.

Hmm, you know one thing that really baffles me with FE content in Smash? The lack of a boss.

No, seriously: after Dracula and Rathalos were revealed, a FE boss was one of the first things that popped into my head (specifically, Black Knight or Grima). I wonder why they never got a boss while we got Galleom back instead and Marx is the other new Nintendo boss in the game.

Probably too much crossover with Rathalos if anything IMO.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, you know one thing that really baffles me with FE content in Smash? The lack of a boss.

No, seriously: after Dracula and Rathalos were revealed, a FE boss was one of the first things that popped into my head (specifically, Black Knight or Grima). I wonder why they never got a boss while we got Galleom back instead and Marx is the other new Nintendo boss in the game.

YO GRIMA AS A BOSS WOULD BE SICK

 

[Guynamednelson]

Hmm, you know one thing that really baffles me with FE content in Smash? The lack of a boss.

No, seriously: after Dracula and Rathalos were revealed, a FE boss was one of the first things that popped into my head (specifically, Black Knight or Grima). I wonder why they never got a boss while we got Galleom back instead and Marx is the other new Nintendo boss in the game.

Rathalos serving double duty as an AT and boss is an underutilized feature. Why not do that for the Black Knight and Dr. Wily as well?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Listen all I'm saying is that you can't add more Fire Emblem and completely ignore Xenoblade again.

-Rex and Pyra?
-Adam and Mythra?
-Lora and Jin?
-ELMA AND GUNDAM?
-MALOS THE TANK ENGINE?

That said I'm personally on the Boar prince and Claude's side. Byleth's whip sword would be cool, but Edelgard would probably play like a heavier Ike which would be meh.

Ok but Xenoblade 2 was the most disappointing thing since my son. I mean, how much more could you possibly **** up the integrity of Xenoblade?! And while my son eventually hanged himself in the bathroom of a gas station, the unfortunate reality of Xenoblade 2 is that it'll be around… forever. It will never go away. It can never be undone

 

[PSIGuy]

i feel like people defending corrin haven't seen how actually god-awful the game's writing is.

 

[Night Gale]

There is nothing a Three Houses character can bring to the table that another character couldn’t also bring while including a new franchise and world into the game.

Same franchise but I consider 3 Houses its own world. There's no point in making a statement like that tbqh because people want characters they are fond of. Otherwise Super Smash would be like

 

[Ivander]

i feel like people defending corrin haven't seen how actually god-awful the game's writing is.

No one was or is defending Fates' writing. As I said, in Warriors and Heroes, not Fates, Corrin is a decent character and like-able due to better writing in those games.
Not to mention Fates' writing doesn't just hurt Corrin, but just about all the characters in the story, ESPECIALLY Xander.

 

[NintenZ]

People should stop thinking of characters as functions and actually think of them as characters.

This is actually why Corrin never really sat well with me in Smash.

They tried selling them for their abilities instead of them as an actual character and I never knew how to feel about it, it’s a somewhat similar problem I have with Piranha Plant but that’s a different story altogether.

 

[3BitSaurus]

YO GRIMA AS A BOSS WOULD BE SICK

Spoiler

I think fighting Grima on his back through waves of Grimleal and then a powered-up Robin along with dodging attacks from the main body could be cool. We don't really have a boss that sends waves of enemies after you. Plus, in WoL, it could act like Bowser and Ganondorf's fights, unlocking Robin afterwards.

 

[Jomosensual]

So you guys want more generic anime swordfighters then? Be my guest...

Which 3 Houses character would be a generic anime swordsman?

 

[Flyboy]

I don't know why people have to constantly explain that the reason Corrin sucks despite the cool moveset is because Fates isn't good, people want characters they're attached to, and not only do all four (five if you count Rhea) potential Three Houses reps have unique movesets and fighting styles that could provide a kit no other character has, they're also characters very popular with people who have played the damn game. Even Byleth is popular in the fandom despite being mostly silent because of how weird they are and their role in the story, plus cool powers.

 

[SNEKeater]

Hmm, you know one thing that really baffles me with FE content in Smash? The lack of a boss.

No, seriously: after Dracula and Rathalos were revealed, a FE boss was one of the first things that popped into my head (specifically, Black Knight or Grima). I wonder why they never got a boss while we got Galleom back instead and Marx is the other new Nintendo boss in the game.

Black Knight as a boss would be amazing, but usually they go for big enemies and Black Knight isn't that big.
They would probably pick Grima because Fire Emblem Awakening, which also would be cool.

After Ridley I would like to see Mother Brain as a boss. I mean, his battle from Super Metroid is absolutely PERFECT for Smash.

 

[Schnee117]

No one was or is defending Fates' writing. As I said, in Warriors and Heroes, not Fates, Corrin is a decent character and like-able due to better writing in those games.
Not to mention Fates' writing doesn't just hurt Corrin, but just about all the characters in the story, ESPECIALLY Xander.

It actively hurts the world itself too. The continent still has no name and it's canon that the sun avoids going over Nohr somehow.

 

[PSIGuy]

Same franchise but I consider 3 Houses its own world. There's no point in making a statement like that tbqh because people want characters they are fond of. Otherwise Super Smash would be like

Of course every character is their own character etc blah blah blah.

My point is, a new character who is from something completely different brings in FAR MORE than a character with the same functions from a franchise already in. That's why you have diverse character and series choices and not Blue Swordsmen 1 through 10.

FE is already well-represented in Smash. If a fun fighter is a fun fighter, why not also make them improve the diversity of the game too? You could have the entire game be Pirahna Plant and Corrin-tier picks with just as diverse movesets, but would people be nearly as excited for it as they are for a game full of Banjo-Kazooie and Joker tier picks?

 

[Iko MattOrr]

i feel like people defending corrin haven't seen how actually god-awful the game's writing is.

I don't know, based on this, it feels like an attempt to make a silent protagonist went bad.
(not really silent, but it seems it talks a lot less compared to other characters/ is more passive).
Though if the character is better in Fire Emblem Warriors, and the moveset is cool in Smash, why would it be a problem... I get that he got in over other characters that people preferred, but at least he's unique and plays nice.

Characters like ROB don't even have a personality at all, so is it a problem that they are in Smash?

 

[PhantomShab]

So you guys want more generic anime swordfighters then? Be my guest...

Honestly I feel like people are just convincing themselves that they actually want an 8th Fire Emblem character (who will no doubt have a counter move) because deep down they know and accepted that that's really the only 1st party character that actually has a chance. Well besides whatever 8th gen Pokemon that Gamefreak decided ahead of time would be the designated shillmon. It's a pretty defeatist way of looking at things but I can't really blame anyone for feeling that way.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Black Knight as a boss would be amazing, but usually they go for big enemies and Black Knight isn't that big.
They would probably pick Grima because Fire Emblem Awakening, which also would be cool.

After Ridley I would like to see Mother Brain as a boss. I mean, his battle from Super Metroid is absolutely PERFECT for Smash.

Having Omega Ridley could be cool too. As a bonus, they could pick some attacks from Brawl's Ridley and Meta Ridley.

 

[PSIGuy]

I don't know, bassed on this, it feels like an attempt to make a silent protagonist went bad.

Corrin isn't a silent protagonist, though. He has constant dialogue. Corrin's done a lot to warrant the hate he gets and his overall ineffectuality and milquetoast personality is a big part of it.

 

[Schnee117]

Honestly I feel like people are just convincing themselves that they actually want an 8th Fire Emblem character (who will no doubt have a counter move) because deep down they know and accepted that that's really the only 1st party character that actually has a chance. Well besides whatever 8th gen Pokemon that Gamefreak decided ahead of time would be the designated shillmon. It's a pretty defeatist way of looking at things but I can't really blame anyone for feeling that way.

Or people just genuinely like the characters.
Hard concept to grasp I know.

 

[Flyboy]

Honestly I feel like people are just convincing themselves that they actually want an 8th Fire Emblem character (who will no doubt have a counter move) because deep down they know and accepted that that's really the only 1st party character that actually has a chance. Well besides whatever 8th gen Pokemon that Gamefreak decided ahead of time would be the designated shillmon. It's a pretty defeatist way of looking at things but I can't really blame anyone for feeling that way.

or like

people played three houses

and realized "hey this is a pretty cool game and i'm invested in these characters and want to play as them more"

it's not that hard especially when, like, astral chain is similarly popular as a new IP

 

[NintenZ]

Honestly I feel like people are just convincing themselves that they actually want an 8th Fire Emblem character (who will no doubt have a counter move) because deep down they know and accepted that that's really the only 1st party character that actually has a chance. Well besides whatever 8th gen Pokemon that Gamefreak decided ahead of time would be the designated shillmon. It's a pretty defeatist way of looking at things but I can't really blame anyone for feeling that way.

Maybe I want characters from a game I like to be represented in another game I like and have them face off against several of my other favorite characters in gaming?

Is it really that hard of a concept to grasp?

 

[Droodle]

Honestly I feel like people are just convincing themselves that they actually want an 8th Fire Emblem character (who will no doubt have a counter move) because deep down they know and accepted that that's really the only 1st party character that actually has a chance. Well besides whatever 8th gen Pokemon that Gamefreak decided ahead of time would be the designated shillmon. It's a pretty defeatist way of looking at things but I can't really blame anyone for feeling that way.

Or maybe people just really like the characters? Both Claude and Dmitri are really popular, and while Edelgard's popularity did decrease she is still also popular.

Maybe people just want the characters because they like the characters, rather then what you said.

 

[Calamitas]

I never played a Fire emblem game, I know the franchise only because of Smash, that's why I never had a problem with Corrin and it seemed a cool character to me.

Oh sweet summer child. . .
Never touch Fire Emblem Fates, and retain your positive outlook.

i feel like people defending corrin haven't seen how actually god-awful the game's writing is.

Tbh a Fire Emblem character's writing, or even how god they are overall in their games just doesn't really seem to matter for Smash. Just look at Roy.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Why are you guys arguing with the guy who only comes here to scream about Fire Emblem or whatever

 

[Deleted member]

Why are you guys arguing with the guy who only comes here to scream about Fire Emblem or whatever

Ghost the Phantom, as I always say. Ignore buttons exist for a reason.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

He knows better now yes. Again, compare to how SFV missed the mark and how concerned Guilty Gear fans are with Strive

Smash Ultimate mechanics suck compared to Melee. I think the changes qualify as watering down. You can check out some posts by someone who understands it better than I do if you disagree.

Dull. Looks like tra5h.

I don't care to go through the issues unprompted, but take a look at staling dodges: what is that a solution to? The spamming of dodges. What was that a solution to? The lack of mobility options like dash dancing and wavedashing. Sakurai just solved a problem that arose from a problem he himself created. What is this guy smoking.

View attachment 147962

>ur mean
Yeah, yeah. Read on if you want my fuller thoughts.

I would say that it is anti-competitive because it changes how the game functions as matches go on; it makes it unpredictable, random, or more based on chance.
Take the stale-ing of moves as an example. You can't expect an attack to produce the same damage and knockback as you use it, so that it becomes either a guessing game as to whether the effect you desire will be produced if you succeed in landing the hit, or a game of intensive memorization, situation assessment, and recall to be able to predict what will happen and adjust play accordingly.
The desire, I presume, was to be anti-spam, but in effect, it doesn't actually prevent spam. Hungrybox will continue to use bair in neutral for a stock until it becomes feasible to use something else, and it largely will still work. Zero continually used Mario's bair for the same reason. It doesn't actually stop spam; just provides players with an inconvenience they're forced to deal with.
Instead, the focus should be on making sure everyone has tools that do their jobs well and work well enough with one another to provide their players with toolboxes that neither require the repeated use of just a few tools, nor leave one unable to deal with another player who chooses to rely on a small number of tools.
tr4sh got this wrong by making shields and rolling stronger in relation to other options by nerfing those other options. Rather than buffing those other options, he felt it necessary this time around to nerf shields and rolling too. If part of what it means to be competitive is giving players the options and freedoms enough to win the game in multiple fashions and creatively, then Sakurai's changes, I would say, are anti-competitive (if not just downright lazy or spiteful).

If that was the actual reason, he could have (I hesitate to suggest "would have") made them easier to perform, or provided tutorials that were easy to understand for less experienced players. But he did not do this.

Yes. Not everything is as ambiguous as you all suggest to necessitate waiting to pass a verdict on certain things.

I implicitly invited dialogue with my note "I don't care to go through the issues unprompted...". There's no need to express it any simpler.

Look, I'm not trying to be mean to anyone here. What I want is a fantastic Smash game; and after seeing what fans can make possible through modding, I'm disappointed that Sakurai fails to take note.
My personal opinion is that I would pay for Melee 2.0 or an official Brawl Minus. tra5h is neither one of these things, and so deserves criticism in my eyes. I've been criticizing it along the Melee lines but I could do the same along the Brawl Minus lines, just not right now since that requires us to see how gameplay of characters has changed. If he kept tr4sh Dedede, then his games deserves to be pooped on.
I have nothing against Sakurai as a man. As a game designer I see him as pathetic in many ways.


This kind of reply is nonsense. It implies that we can't criticize flaws we see now because supposedly the developers already view them as flaws and won't leave them in in the final build---which is mistaken. They need to be made aware of what is not going to fly in the fans' eyes. For all we know, Sakurai thought the way knockback is working right now is great.

I'm sorry, did he mention any specifics? No.

We don't know this. This is a man who felt removing DACUS was a good idea.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Corrin isn't a silent protagonist, though. He has constant dialogue. Corrin's done a lot to warrant the hate he gets and his overall ineffectuality and milquetoast personality is a big part of it.

Yeah, I edited the post; what I meant is that from those pictures he seems very passive even if he still talks (Azura seems to speak instead of him and take decisions a lot). But not having played the game I don't know really.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Smash Ultimate mechanics suck compared to Melee. I think the changes qualify as watering down. You can check out some posts by someone who understands it better than I do if you disagree.

This has nothing to do with my point about how new fighting games try to simplify their mechanics for casuals despite casuals not caring these days stop talking about Melee

 

[Ivander]

Tbh a Fire Emblem character's writing, or even how god they are overall in their games just doesn't really seem to matter for Smash. Just look at Roy.

Roy isn't a bad character writing-wise. Most people who played his game have a stigma with him due to not being able to be promoted until he is forced into a new promotion later in the game. That means that he can only go to Level 20 and once he's there, he can't level until he's promoted, which doesn't happen until near the end. So basically, if he gets bad level-up stats overall, he becomes a character that must be protected due to being easily breakable and if he dies, you get a game over due to him being the main lord.

But writing-wise in his own game, he's like-able and has some pretty great lines.

 

[Wigglerman]

@
Al-kīmiyā'

Honestly, any Smash game will seem 'sucky' mechanically compared to Melee unless Sakurai went out of his way to do that again, which I don't think he will. Melee is lightning in a bottle, and it's OK to be that. Ultimate definetly is a step in the right direction considering how Brawl was and generally simple Smash 4 felt. Ultimate is making the right strides but, frankly, I'm not sure I'd personally want Smash to get as complex as Melee was ever again. You can get Smash to a good balance point but I feel Melee is far too demanding a game to play at a competent level and even more so at upper levels.

Ultimate feels complex enough without trying to be a super computer trying to plan actions out months in advance in a single match XD

If it can find that happy medium between remaining simple, fun but having a good sense of depth but not entering obscene, then I'd be content.

 

[Calamitas]

Roy isn't a bad character writing-wise. Most people who played his game have a stigma with him due to not being able to be promoted until he is forced into a new promotion later in the game. That means that he can only go to Level 20 and once he's there, he can't level until he's promoted, which doesn't happen until near the end. So basically, if he gets bad level-up stats overall, he becomes a character that must be protected due to being easily breakable and if he dies, you get a game over due to him being the main lord.

But writing-wise in his own game, he's like-able and has some pretty great lines.

I've played through the entire thing, true ending and everything. Roy's generic as **** and nothing to write home about by any stretch of the imagination. Hell, Lilina or Guinevre would have made a better lord for the game than he did.