Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[EricTheGamerman]

Yet Geno, a side character of the one 20 year old Mario spin-off, is apparently fine to outright expect because he's actually another company's character, even over say, a "rhythmic" Nintendo franchise with multiple popular games to its name (that were actually initially released in Europe), but not a character from that franchise tho.

I mean, it comes down to the fan demand angle. Geno wouldn't even be in any conversations if people hadn't been supporting him for a decade at this point with such intensity and sustained interest. Nintendo is going to put in characters that will please different types of fans, so they're either going to go for picks they know will directly satisfy certain groups of fans (Banjo & Kazooie for example) or bigger name characters that can potentially cast wider nets and bring new things to Smash (basically the rest of the Fighter's Pass). Basically the only characters with remotely even similar demand at this point not in from Nintendo are Isaac and Waluigi, and it remains to be seen if they can get past the Assist Trophy status for an upgrade.

It has nothing to do with him specifically being a third party character (and he's also a main character, as are all party members in RPGs).

Like I can tolerate characters who lack a Nintendo connection (Hell Monokuma is one of my most wanted characters and probably a pipedream for me unless DR Collection gets announced for Switch sometime soon), but there needs to be an overlap with both Smash's audience and Smash as a game in general.

Like to me Half-Life and Gordon Freeman would really stick out like a sore thumb because it doesn't really have either overlap and as a result if it were to be Fighter Pack #5 I have honestly no idea how I would feel or more specifically how a lot of other people would feel as well.

How is there not some overlap to Smash's audience with Half-Life? Plenty of people here have played Half-Life, and several probably enjoyed the games quite a bit. Like, the overlap is just playing good video games with critical acclaim on more than one system. That feels like it should be plenty haha.

They weren't picked because of those minor appearances but those minor appearances at least somewhat justified their inclusions. That's the difference between them and a character like Kratos.

Also both of those series have had somewhat a history on Nintendo consoles prior, whether it be the first 6 FF games or the SMT main series.

It's really stretching to try to distill Joker back to Shin Megami Tensei at this point. Atlus has gone out of its way to separate them further and further over the years, particularly in the name of making Persona its own brand... which it has completely become over the past decade or so.

 

[N3ON]

I think you can tell which series have the most overlap with the Smash audience (at least the vocal part of it) by whichever characters you see suggested or requested independent of leaks or rumours which otherwise precipitate them joining the conversation.

Like, if the character became part of the conversation less because of a rumour or people trying to predict Sakurai, and more because they just naturally found themselves in the discourse, there's probably a larger overlap with that series.

Of course there will be some overlap between the Smash audience and any other gaming crowd, because the Smash audience is huge, so some part of it will have played the other game in question, but I do think the audience at large does generally gravitate towards a certain style of game.

 

[PSIGuy]

It's really stretching to try to distill Joker back to Shin Megami Tensei at this point. Atlus has gone out of its way to separate them further and further over the years, particularly in the name of making Persona its own brand... which it has completely become over the past decade or so.

This. Reminder that there isn't a single reference to the phrase "Shin Megami Tensei" in Persona 5's Smash content at all, let alone any reference to actual content from SMT [aside from two spell names, the -karns; Eiha only appeared in Persona 1 before it returned in Persona 5]. It's incredibly disingenuous the way people try to claim SMT's legacy as something Persona should benefit from while also refusing to give SMT any actual recognition.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Realistically speaking, when was the last time this happened? Only cases I can really think of this is Marth and Roy during Melee, Ice Climbers, Ness, Lucas, ROB, Shulk

Duck Hunt was the last time it happened.

Adding to this is from a series predominantly on Playstation consoles and the mainline Solid series only had one single game on Nintendo, if you count remakes.

Yeah, but Metal Gear as a whole first gained popularity on the NES.

Anyway the leak is probably fake but the idea of Gordon is cool and that's all it takes for me to be down with a character.
Like y'all know that a Gravity Gun command grab would be some hilarious ****.

I just want that GlaDOS spirit.

And a battle remix of Still Alive...

Unilaterally rejecting every leak's potential validity is just the opposite extreme to buying into them without question.

Its really not. Because leaks are BS 99% of the time. So rejecting them all means you get to be right 99% of the time, while believing them all makes you wrong 99% of the time.

I like my chances with the former.

 

[Gamma Ray]

Its really not. Because leaks are BS 99% of the time. So rejecting them all means you get to be right 99% of the time, while believing them all makes you wrong 99% of the time.

I like my chances with the former.

I think what people are trying to say is that with someone like Vergeben the odds of him being wrong are substantially lower than 99%. For any other leak, that number sounds about right.

 

[XorahnGaia]

Hi, new user here.
I've seen a lot of discussion about the Monsun Gordon Freeman leak in the last pages of this thread. A lot of users have already written it of as a fake, but some may think that it still hold some kind of credibility because Sabi vouched for it.

Well...Sabi also admitted in the PapaGeno's Discord Server that Monsun made that leak specifically to bait Papa into making a video about it:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sabi later confirmed in the ResetEra Smash thread that they were trying to warn Papa about the bait.
So yeah, it's definitely fake.

 

[BlackInk]

Hi, new user here.
I've seen a lot of discussion about the Monsun Gordon Freeman leak in the last pages of this thread. A lot of users have already written it of as a fake, but some may think that it still hold some kind of credibility because Sabi vouched for it.

Well...Sabi also admitted in the PapaGeno's Discord Server that Monsun made that leak specifically to bait Papa into making a video about it:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sabi later confirmed in the ResetEra that they were trying to warn Papa about the bait.
So yeah, it's definitely fake.

The dedication to make one big troll on Papa is impressive.

 

[Izanagi97]

So I guess we are on character 9 on "characters who are not FP5 according to credible leakers (and coming too late for the Fighters Pass in the case of Rex)"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hi, new user here.
I've seen a lot of discussion about the Monsun Gordon Freeman leak in the last pages of this thread. A lot of users have already written it of as a fake, but some may think that it still hold some kind of credibility because Sabi vouched for it.

Well...Sabi also admitted in the PapaGeno's Discord Server that Monsun made that leak specifically to bait Papa into making a video about it:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sabi later confirmed in the ResetEra that they were trying to warn Papa about the bait.
So yeah, it's definitely fake.

PapaGenos is hella easy to bait, just say Geno's in and voila, he has your unconditional attention

 

[VongolaFair]

Hey everyone! I’m new around here and would like to ask, has there been a Smashboards poll regarding most requested characters? Cuz if it hasn’t it would be cool to see what people are hoping/expecting to see come to Smash!

 

[BlackInk]

So I guess we are on character 9 on "characters who are not FP5 according to credible leakers (and coming too late for the Fighters Pass in the case of Rex)"

I expect Kosmos because of the whole Rex thing. It’s a ridiculously weird situation for a character could’ve been in the game for free to end up as a mii costume that’s only available in a 25$ pass.

 

[XorahnGaia]

PapaGenos is hella easy to bait, just say Geno's in and voila, he has your unconditional attention

Honestly, I think that even that is giving him to much credit. In the past months he has given attention to many outlandish theories and leaks that have no real basis just because a guy on his server point it out to him (see: the "Sakurai saying repeatedly "poor souls" is a hint for the next character" or the misconsception about modders having trouble with SoPo)

I get that people like the guy and I'm not trying to put him on the same level as LaxChris, but he's not a bastion of reliability and sometimes it does feel like he talks about this stuff just to stretch out the lenght of his videos.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, I think that even that is giving him to much credit. In the past months he has given attention to many outlandish theories and leaks that have no real basis just because a guy on his server point it out to him (see: the "Sakurai saying repeatedly "poor souls" is a hint for the next character" or the misconsception about modders having trouble with SoPo)

I get that people like the guy and I'm not trying to put him on the same level as LaxChris, but he's not a bastion of reliability and sometimes it does feel like he talks about this stuff just to stretch out the lenght of his videos.

People just pretend PapaGenos is significantly better and has NEVER clickbaited because he's just so goshdarn nice I guess so yeah

 

[kirbsmash]

Ah.....I love being on the bara kitty's side during that hoax. (I can't, and won't call it an leak because it ****ing isn't)

 

[Calamitas]

People just pretend PapaGenos is significantly better and has NEVER clickbaited because he's just so goshdarn nice I guess so yeah

Also his intro and outro are annoying as hell.

 

[kirbsmash]

Also his intro and outro are annoying as hell.

How annoying? Is it close to TIP OF THE MORNING LADDIES I'M JACK-?

 

[Deleted member]

Hi, new user here.
I've seen a lot of discussion about the Monsun Gordon Freeman leak in the last pages of this thread. A lot of users have already written it of as a fake, but some may think that it still hold some kind of credibility because Sabi vouched for it.

Well...Sabi also admitted in the PapaGeno's Discord Server that Monsun made that leak specifically to bait Papa into making a video about it:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sabi later confirmed in the ResetEra that they were trying to warn Papa about the bait.
So yeah, it's definitely fake.

Eto na naman tayo...kailan ka ba matuto...pag-ibig ay sakit sa ulo...

 

[Guybrush20X6]

How annoying? Is it close to TIP OF THE MORNING LADDIES I'M JACK-?

It's just the opening of Beware the Forest's Mushrooms while his face fades in. Not annoying at all IMO but then again, maybe YouTube desensitised me.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

If you're gonna talk all that about PapaGenos, the least you could do is at least @ him since he uses SB, c'mon now.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

If you're gonna talk all that about PapaGenos, the least you could do is at least @ him since he uses SB, c'mon now.

I'll summon him then.

papagenos , the topic went to talking about you.

 

[3BitSaurus]

If Sabi really said the Gordon leaks were fake in ResetEra, do we have the links to that?

And again, was the March 2020 release for HL: Alyx leaked beforehand?

I'm taking both sides with a grain of salt right now.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

I would laugh if Freeman is the 5th. But if his moveset was cool, I'd buy him still

 

[XorahnGaia]

If Sabi really said the Gordon leaks were fake in ResetEra, do we have the links to that?

And again, was the March 2020 release for HL: Alyx leaked beforehand?

I'm taking both sides with a grain of salt right now.

Here https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ra-are-you-okay.151268/page-221#post-26770016

 

[Deleted member]

I would laugh if Freeman is the 5th. But if his moveset was cool, I'd buy him still

I'd be disappointed and surprised at the same time. Though it's slowly leaning towards being fake and sketchy.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Gordon should be bonus DLC.

That way he'd be free, man.

 

[NintenZ]

Hi, new user here.
I've seen a lot of discussion about the Monsun Gordon Freeman leak in the last pages of this thread. A lot of users have already written it of as a fake, but some may think that it still hold some kind of credibility because Sabi vouched for it.

Well...Sabi also admitted in the PapaGeno's Discord Server that Monsun made that leak specifically to bait Papa into making a video about it:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Sabi later confirmed in the ResetEra that they were trying to warn Papa about the bait.
So yeah, it's definitely fake.

This is why I always stick to my intuition lmao.

Although I must say this makes me feel like at this rate we’re so desperate to find out who FP5 is that we’ll talk about ANYONE.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Here https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ra-are-you-okay.151268/page-221#post-26770016

Well, that settles it then, I suppose.

Shame, it was fun seeing a character that's not normally considered being talked about unironically in the context of Smash. On the other hand, I'm glad the truth came out. Sounded like some really petty stuff if it was really made up just to mess with one person.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I pretty much expected that leak to be fake. Freeman still has a decent shot even without it though. Half-Life is a franchise that represents Valve and Steam, which makes it a representation of PC gaming as a whole. If Nintendo ever wanted to pick a character that appeals to the PC crowd then Gordon is their frontrunner in that regard.

Also I seriously hope none of you are thinking of using the "literal who" argument on Gordon mother****ing Freeman of all characters. Erdrick I can get since his popularity is mostly contained in Japan. But if you're living in the West and you're telling me you've never heard of Half-Life ever in your life then I'm calling bull**** on that.

 

[Megadoomer]

Hey everyone! I’m new around here and would like to ask, has there been a Smashboards poll regarding most requested characters? Cuz if it hasn’t it would be cool to see what people are hoping/expecting to see come to Smash!

You can use the character support threads as a rough guideline of popularity, though they can be prone to spam from time to time, so they aren't exactly accurate.

If a poll was put up to try and get an idea of who the most popular character is, there'd be hundreds of options and even then, there would probably be a bunch of characters who would accidentally be left out. The Source Gaming poll from about half a year ago is probably the most accurate poll of the Smash community since it's a write-in ballot, and even then, it's relatively tiny compared to the amount of people who bought Smash. (plus it's slightly outdated, considering that the number one choice is now playable, among a handful of others)

 

[Deleted member]

Here https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ra-are-you-okay.151268/page-221#post-26770016

Thanks for sharing!

Shame no Freeman though.

 

[NovaIX]

Sucks that leak is fake but i still think freeman has a shot. Kinda petty tho just to **** with someone like that tho imo

 

[Rikarte]

You can use the character support threads as a rough guideline of popularity, though they can be prone to spam from time to time, so they aren't exactly accurate.

If a poll was put up to try and get an idea of who the most popular character is, there'd be hundreds of options and even then, there would probably be a bunch of characters who would accidentally be left out. The Source Gaming poll from about half a year ago is probably the most accurate poll of the Smash community since it's a write-in ballot, and even then, it's relatively tiny compared to the amount of people who bought Smash. (plus it's slightly outdated, considering that the number one choice is now playable, among a handful of others)

That reminds me... what happened to the Sabi poll? Weren't we supposed to get the official results in early November? Did something happen and I missed it somehow?

 

[Calamitas]

How annoying? Is it close to TIP OF THE MORNING LADDIES I'M JACK-?

I don't know whose that is.
Anyway thanks for all the quotes, uhhhhh, really helps the profile grow-

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well that's 7 on the NOPE list currently. How many other video game characters are there to go...?

 

[Megadoomer]

Well that's 7 on the NOPE list currently. How many other video game characters are there to go...?

Fourteen million, five hundred and ninety-seven. Eventually, we'll find the one character that will be the fifth Fighters Pass character. (or it will be revealed to us in less than three weeks, if we get anything at the Game Awards)

 

[Door Key Pig]

Now, most of those characters would have little to no chance if they were not introduced already, because the focus is on third parties.
Not only they didn't add Arms characters (their new franchise), they still didn't add any Rhythm Heaven character, they didn't add any character from the Zelda franchise despite being still full of very requested characters, they didn't add any Kirby characters, they didn't even add Dixie Kong, who's a pretty major character in her franchise. And more, those are just examples; Where is Krystal, where is a Wario Ware character? Where is Chibi Robo? etc.

They added K Rool only because the fans made a big noise, and Piranha plant, that's the only exception. Other than that, only very major characters or promotional/marketing stuff (aside of the echos who are Dark Pit level of low effort); side character/obscure or retro characters "slots" are now taken by third parties instead.

It's not super obscure characters that I'm talking about... it's side characters of popular franchises, or characters from minor franchises but still popular enough.

In terms of the base game at least, there was an inherent low number of newcomers for Ultimate as they were bringing back every old character, maybe prioritising the biggest fan requests (literally) and new Nintendo favourites with exactly one third party that was heavily requested in the ballot (as well as a couple of echos, but at least one of those is a low effort clone), and they specifically said ARMS couldn't be in because of timing (which honestly makes me wonder if DLC was decided not too long after the base roster after all and thus why that nor Rex wasn't just Fighter's Pass DLC, instead having devoted Mii costumes and/or an AT to show for it). Not to mention, maybe there's an aversion to Zelda and Kirby characters outside of the recurring Triforce Trio and Sakurai's part of the series respectively. If Dixie truly couldn't be an echo, IDK if it'd look good that Donkey Kong would get two of the handful of newcomer slots for the base game while no other franchise did. With Piranha Plant, they did happen to continue the trend of surprise characters that weren't necessarily "big", "relevant" or "wanted" of Mr G&W, ROB and Duck Hunt despite the handful amount of newcomers they were working with, often the retro characters of Smash games but it just so happened to be a character from an existing franchise this time around (I mean there's only so many options they have for such retro characters after all).

If anything I'd wonder if that willingness to continue with adding such a character in lieu of more popular, conventional characters in its place, as perhaps tradition in Smash games, could actually mean there'd still be one smaller Nintendo character or something in the Pass alone to break up the big guy choices, not unlike Corrin in Smash 4's DLC. Geno seems possible at least.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Actually even if Gordon leak was still possible

I heard a rumor Vergeben spoke again and he said the 5th fighter is not gordon

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Actually even if Gordon leak was still possible

I heard a rumor Vergeben spoke again and he said the 5th fighter is not gordon

Got a source for that? Did he say it on GameFAQs?

 

[SvartWolf]

I just want that GlaDOS spirit.

And a battle remix of Still Alive...

I want a glados bossfight

Also I seriously hope none of you are thinking of using the "literal who" argument on Gordon mother****ing Freeman of all characters. Erdrick I can get since his popularity is mostly contained in Japan. But if you're living in the West and you're telling me you've never heard of Half-Life ever in your life then I'm calling bull**** on that.

Also wanted to add that even if you are a young person which wasn't even here when half life hit like a storm, still if you had a PC with steam there is a friggin big chance you know of Garry's mod, so while ironically you may not know Gordon Freeman, you may recognize the G-man or the basic half life 2 weapons...

I wonder if there's some kind of meme going regarding leakers than whatever one get genuine info on a game, they fabricate a second part of the leak with info of a smash character...

So far as I know, the devil may cry 5 leak was pretty spot on... nd there was that Pokemon swordshield leak with crash.

Anyways... Yeah... Gordon Freeman. The leak is cake, but dunno if I would completely rule out Gordon Freeman... Why? Because is a videogame icon of which Sakurai is greatly aware of and let's face it. If we get in the game awards a double reveal of half life 3 AND Gordon is smash..... There is literally no topping that ever....

 

[Eldrake]

Got a source for that? Did he say it on GameFAQs?

I checked, including his Reddit account, and his latest posts has said absolutely nothing about Gordon or Half-Life.

I honestly don't understand what drives people to believe others saying "Vergeben said this and that" without actually checking if he said this or that.