Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[snowgolem]

So there are obviously Disney characters in Kingdom Hearts, connecting Disney to Nintendo.
And in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, the characters cross with Looney Toons characters. This connects Looney Toons with Nintendo.
Looney Toons have crossed with DC comics, connecting them with Nintendo.
And DC Comics have crossed with Hanna Barbera, connecting every character from there to Nintendo.
Shaggy for smash bros

 

[Deleted member]

They weren't picked because of those minor appearances but those minor appearances at least somewhat justified their inclusions. That's the difference between them and a character like Kratos.

Justified? Persona Q and Q2 weren't even what made Persona a successful series. Hell, Q2, the one with Joker, only came out like a week or two before Joker officially was revealed last year. Come on, mate.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Tfw you've played all of the series from the Fighter Pass.

haha yes, i too have played checks notes Dragon Quest 11 S: Echoes of an Elusive Age: Definitive Edition

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Justified? Persona Q and Q2 weren't even what made Persona a successful series. Hell, Q2 only came out like a week or two before Joker officially was revealed last year. Come on, mate.

They weren't what made Persona a successful series but they were a miniscule connection to Nintendo that at least somewhat linked the series to Nintendo. It showed that Atlus was at least somewhat willing to put in some effort to maintaining a relationship with Nintendo for this series, something Valve has done NADA with Half Life so far in comparison.

That's literally the point I just made. Come on, mate.

 

[RileyXY1]

Persona was also a spinoff of Shin Megami Tensei, a series with a large presence with Nintendo. Final Fantasy at first was a Nintendo franchise before it switched over to Sony.

 

[PSIGuy]

Honestly the "no appearances on Nintendo consoles" thing seems like small fries compared to how difficult it apparently is to work with a non-Japanese company on Smash Bros. Rare and Microsoft both seemed to really want Banjo in; if there wasn't that interest from all sides he wouldn't have gotten in. If Valve wanted Gordon Freeman in I can't see Nintendo declining him because he didn't have a cameo in a game several console generations back. It's more likely one side isn't as interested as the other and the plan falls apart, like that Half Life Tactics game they were planned for Switch. I mean, Valve loses interest in projects and picks up new ones like kid getting new toys. If there aren't people in the company pushing for it and willing to go through translators on every little thing they wouldn't bother with it.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I really dont think the Sabi squad knows anything and they are a bunch of attention seekers, no offense. It's one thing to be a leaker but it's another to be a leaker that doesn't leak. How secretive is number 5's name at this point? I get the feeling they keep stalling cause they dont even know. Sabi said it will leak closer to reveal right? Reveal is most likely going to be the game awards unless Nintendo has a surprise direct.

The closer to release excuse literally tells us she knows nothing.

My thoughts. Whoever the character is is likely not obvious nor is there any "mainstream" leaks that point to the character. If there were, I'd imagine the person who does know would feel safe in releasing that information, akin to the Hero or Incineroar rumors. It's partly why I doubt Lloyd/Heihachi. The other thing is that it's likely that the amount of people actually involved with the character is so incredibly small that it would be hella easy to pinpoint where the information came from. This is also why I think the company/team involved is either small or have always been rather tight lipped on things.

 

[Lamperouge]

I'm glad you grasped that the joke was indeed about people wanting Nintendo characters.

I'm just saying that it wouldn't be too much of a surprise for Gordon to come off as a "literal who" to a big chunk of the audience that was most likely raised primarily on Nintendo games. Hell, the only thing that I knew about Half Life for the longest time was that Valve doesn't count after 2.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

I don't think that there is a lot of overlap between Half-Life fans and Smash fans, and I don't think that Sakurai would want to try to appeal to those "PC Master Race" types of gamers.

You could make the same argument for KOF and Smash not having a ton of overlap and Terry appealing to the hardcore "Smash isn't a real fighting game" FGC crowd, but I sincerely doubt Sakurai had that in mind when he put him in. Hell, Persona and Smash didn't have a ton of overlap either and the hype for Joker was still massive. I know quite a few Persona fans who decided to pick up Smash after Joker was announced, so if Gordon Freeman could do the same for Valve/Half-Life fans, then I don't see why that'd be such an issue. Smash's biggest selling point is crossing over video game worlds that have almost nothing to do with each other, so I don't see how Gordon would be any more out of place than Snake or whoever.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So there are obviously Disney characters in Kingdom Hearts, connecting Disney to Nintendo.
And in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, the characters cross with Looney Toons characters. This connects Looney Toons with Nintendo.
Looney Toons have crossed with DC comics, connecting them with Nintendo.
And DC Comics have crossed with Hanna Barbera, connecting every character from there to Nintendo.
Shaggy for smash bros

Not sure if you're trying to make fun of my argument in a strawman, but all those are from non Video Game series. That's the line of where any matter of console appearances stop mattering.

If you were just making a joke then carry on.

 

[Deleted member]

Not sure if you're trying to make fun of my argument in a strawman, but all those are from non Video Game series. That's the line of where any matter of console appearances stop mattering.

If you were just making a joke then carry on.

And I don't want to repeat Sakurai's statement on that.

 

[Deleted member]

Justified? Persona Q and Q2 weren't even what made Persona a successful series. Hell, Q2 only came out like a week or two before Joker officially was revealed last year. Come on, mate.

tbh I don't even think I would've known that those games existed without somebody bringing them up once Joker was announced

I myself am thinking that this is an obvious fake designed to artificially increase hype for Half-Life: Alyx.

Does anyone really need to make artificial hype for a game people have been waiting more than a decade for? Game seems to be generating hype well enough on it's own

 

[Gentlepanda]

Hell, the only thing that I knew about Half Life for the longest time was that Valve doesn't count after 2.

valve out here like

 

[Deleted member]

Does anyone really need to make artificial hype for a game people have been waiting more than a decade for? Game seems to be generating hype well enough on it's own

It just took advantage of the Smash community's love for speculating.

 

[RileyXY1]

tbh I don't even think I would've known that those games existed without somebody bringing them up once Joker was announced

Does anyone really need to make artificial hype for a game people have been waiting more than a decade for? Game seems to be generating hype well enough on it's own

But, someone might clearly might want to generate even more hype by getting the biggest crossover game involved. People have done crazier things when making fake leaks.

 

[Deleted member]

They weren't what made Persona a successful series but they were a miniscule connection to Nintendo that at least somewhat linked the series to Nintendo.

That's literally the point I just made.

Now can you confirm for me this miniscule connection is what made Nintendo and Sakurai approach ATLUS and say, "hey, we want Persona in Smash?" Because this reasoning doesn't seem particularly strong when it can be easily broken.

Hell, look at Microsoft. They literally had zero connection with Nintendo and vice versa for decades and they could still be approached by Nintendo for BK.

 

[snowgolem]

HL3 would be terrible- everybody would be confused and I don’t see any good reason to do it. Honestly, some character from Portal would probably be better received from fans than Freeman. It just doesn’t make sense. I get people want some characters you wouldn’t expect, but I feel like people are getting unrealistic with their speculation.

Not sure if you're trying to make fun of my argument in a strawman, but all those are from non Video Game series. That's the line of where any matter of console appearances stop mattering.

If you were just making a joke then carry on.

sorry, I wasn’t trying to make fun of anything. Just thought it was cool how Shaggy was connected to Nintendo.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Does anyone really need to make artificial hype for a game people have been waiting more than a decade for? Game seems to be generating hype well enough on it's own

It's VR. That's reason enough. There's plenty of anti-VR sentiment out there and even the Half life friends I have are more keen on brushing Alyx off because of it.

 

[P.Kat]

So, what's the consensus of this leak? Final answers.

Real or fake?

I don't have an interest in Gordon Freeman as a character for Smash, I'd mostly be happy for those who want him if he got in. That being said I think this leak is fake.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They literally had zero connection with Nintendo and vice versa for decades

Does making games for Nintendo handhelds even after the Xbox not count?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

They weren't picked because of those minor appearances but those minor appearances at least somewhat justified their inclusions. That's the difference between them and a character like Kratos.

Also both of those series have had somewhat a history on Nintendo consoles prior, whether it be the first 6 FF games or the SMT main series.

If it were just about the history on Nintendo consoles as opposed to their relevancy to the industry as a whole, in addition to their gameplay potential, then I think Sakurai would have picked Terra Branford and a SMT protagonist rather than two characters more recognized for their PlayStation appearances.

If you ask me, at least in Cloud’s case, Sakurai picked the dude because he’s Cloud: the most popular, iconic Final Fantasy character who happens to come from one of the most highly rated games in the industry. In a gaming franchise with the best of the best, people want to play as Cloud, and Sakurai even referenced the fan input surrounding Cloud in his reasoning for the pick.

Joker is a different case from Cloud, but I don’t really think Sakurai would have decided against Joker if Shin Megami Tensei wasn’t on Nintendo.

Sakurai adds cool stuff to make the game better; he doesn’t hold back just because things “aren’t Nintendo enough”.

However, I respect the fact that you value the relationship series have with Nintendo. I agree to disagree.

 

[Lamperouge]

It's VR. That's reason enough. There's plenty of anti-VR sentiment out there and even the Half life friends I have are more keen on brushing Alyx off because of it.

It's a shame that the reputation of VR has been tarnished by shovelware and lame ports.

Maybe Alyx will be the one to change things.

 

[Deleted member]

Does making games for Nintendo handhelds even after the Xbox not count?

What games?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Now can you confirm for me this miniscule connection is what made Nintendo and Sakurai approach ATLUS and say, "hey, we want Persona in Smash?" Because this reasoning doesn't seem particularly strong when it can be easily broken.

Hell, look at Microsoft. They literally had zero connection with Nintendo and vice versa for decades and they could still be approached by Nintendo for BK.

No, it's not, but it was a courtesy that justified their decision. Also Shin Megami Tensei had literally just made a crossover with Fire Emblem on the Wii U.

For Microsoft, they had just put Cuphead on the Switch and were engaging in Switch-Xbox One crossplay, so plenty of connection there. And they didn't choose Banjo because he was Microsoft, Banjo had an enormous connection with Nintendo in the past and had appeared on the N64 so you're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[perfectchaos83]

What games?

Viva Pinata is the one that springs to mind.

 

[snowgolem]

I feel like people forget that Nintendo has made an app which isn’t based off a game already made for console. A Dragalia Lost character could be a possibility for Smash Bros.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

If it were just about the history on Nintendo consoles as opposed to their relevancy to the industry as a whole, in addition to their gameplay potential, then I think Sakurai would have picked Terra Branford and a SMT protagonist rather than two characters more recognized for their PlayStation appearances.

If you ask me, at least in Cloud’s case, Sakurai picked the dude because he’s Cloud: the most popular, iconic Final Fantasy character who happens to come from one of the most highly rated games in the industry. In a gaming franchise with the best of the best, people want to play as Cloud, and Sakurai even referenced the fan input surrounding Cloud in his reasoning for the pick.

Joker is a different case from Cloud, but I don’t really think Sakurai would have decided against Joker if Shin Megami Tensei wasn’t on Nintendo.

Sakurai adds cool stuff to make the game better; he doesn’t hold back just because things “aren’t Nintendo enough”.

However, I respect the fact that you value the relationship series have with Nintendo. I agree to disagree.

It's not about the Nintendo relationship for the character, but for the company and series itself. Half Life is in a completely different league from Joker and Cloud because the entire series and company have literally nothing to do with Nintendo. That's why I don't like characters like Heavy anymore than Gordon. Chell is only barely above the other two due to Bridge Constructor Portal actually appearing on Switch, as well as her appearance in Lego Dimensions, which I presume in the Wii U version.


I really hope you guys don't think I'm some kind of 1st Party purist, some of my most wanted characters are Sora and Lara Croft who are primarily associated with Playstation. But both of those characters at least at some connections to Nintendo consoles. In the case of Valve:
In a list of their games, they couldn't even be bothered to make one single significant release on a Nintendo console. (The bridge constructor spinoff mentioned above was made by another developer).

 

[Deleted member]

No, it's not, but it was a courtesy that justified their decision.

For Microsoft, they had just put Cuphead on the Switch and were engaging in Switch-Xbox One crossplay, so plenty of connection their. And they didn't choose Banjo because he was Microsoft, Banjo had an enormous connection with Nintendo in the past and had appeared on the N64 so you're comparing apples to oranges.

So who's to say Valve literally cannot do the same thing with their games?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

So who's to say Valve literally cannot do the same thing with their games?

Sure, if a Half Life game gets ported to Switch, I'll be completely fine with Gordan!

Until then, maybe Valve could actually start putting in some effort on their end to make some connections before expecting one of their characters to get into Smash. Something all the other 3rd Parties in Smash have at least done minimally.

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway the leak is probably fake but the idea of Gordon is cool and that's all it takes for me to be down with a character.
Like y'all know that a Gravity Gun command grab would be some hilarious ****.

 

[Guynamednelson]

What games?

Three Microsoft Entertainment Packs on the Game Boy Color, two Banjo-Kazooie games for the GBA, two Age of Empires games for the DS, Zoo Tycoon DS, Diddy Kong Racing DS.

Granted, some of these were merely licensed by Microsoft and not actually developed by them, but still, they've supported Nintendo's handhelds since the GBC.

 

[Lamperouge]

What games?

How could you forget about the influential masterpiece, It's Mr. Pants?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Mr._Pants

 

[Idon]

then I think Sakurai would have picked Terra Branford and a SMT protagonist rather than two characters more recognized for their PlayStation appearances.

God, I ****ing wish.

 

[Deleted member]

Three Microsoft Entertainment Packs on the Game Boy Color, two Banjo-Kazooie games for the GBA, two Age of Empires games for the DS, Zoo Tycoon DS, Diddy Kong Racing DS.

Granted, some of these were merely licensed by Microsoft and not actually developed by them, but still, they've supported Nintendo's handhelds since the GBC.

Cool! Did not know that.

Still makes me doubt people recognized those games and thought Nintendo would play buddy with Microsoft.

 

[NintenZ]

Joker and Cloud may not be close as characters to Nintendo, but their franchise roots and developer's connections with Nintendo moreorless justifies them being in a huge Nintendo crossover, at least for me.

Valve and Nintendo just don't have that same connection so it feels less organic and a little bit forced to me.

 

[Gentlepanda]

God, I ****ing wish.
View attachment 247839

what if u wanted acknowledgement of SMT

but atlus said

Joker from Persona 5

 

[OrpheusTelos]

How could you forget about the influential masterpiece, It's Mr. Pants?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_Mr._Pants

God I'm still mad that Banjo stole a spot from Mr. Pants, smh Nintendo I can't believe you'd neglect Rare's magnum opus for an obscure Duck Hunt rip-off nobody cares about.

 

[Zinith]

"Who's Gordon Freeman?" asks chunks of the Smash fanbase as they push for their one-time supporting spin-off characters from twenty-three years ago.

Nothing against Geno or other similarly niche choices, but it's funny because you know this would happen.

I was planning on bringing Gordon Freeman up out of the blue before this. I was even gonna play off my notoriety on this site to pull a Colbert Report style bait-and-switch. "Today I wanna bring up a beloved video game character many of us take for granted. I'm of course talking about Yoshi Gordon Freeman!"

And then these leaks came up, not to mention the newly announced Half-Life game and I was "are you ****ing me?!!!" That series has been out of the news for 70 million years, but it just had to blow up TODAY?!!!

 

[GKMLTTSB]

Portal is connected to Half-Life.
Portal Bridge Constructor is on Switch.
There is a Portal Table in Pinball FX3.

If you need a Valve connection to Switch to feel good about it, there you go.

 

[Deleted member]

Joker and Cloud may not be close as characters to Nintendo, but their franchise roots and developer's connections with Nintendo moreorless justifies them being in a huge Nintendo crossover, at least for me.

Valve and Nintendo just don't have that same connection so it feels less organic and a little bit forced to me.

We all sort of justify it by going indepth with their roots on Nintendo systems, but no one seriously thinks about that. Can I ask you all how did any of you all react to Joker from Persona 5?

Was it, "Yeah. Persona makes sense. It was a spinoff from a notable NES series and Q2 released on 3ds a couple weeks ago. Not a bad pick."

Or was it,
"

"

It was total shock right? Not a single person would think Joker made sense if you leaked him ahead of time. Let's not pretend a series or character has to "justify" its inclusion. We got a potted plant.