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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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SMAASH! Puppy

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I know I've harped on Agumon a lot in the past, but I literally can't grasp this idea that Digimon is somehow important to the gaming landscape aside from virtual pets, which, frankly, no one cares about if they weren't born in the 90s. Do I think KOS-MOS is important to the gaming landscape? No, of course not, but she's essentially the mascot for MonolithSoft and does crossovers for Bamco. She's an actual video game character and not a technicality.
Again. Augumon is not a video game character on a technicality. It is just straight up a video game character. I'm not going to argue about Digimon not being all that influential an IP when it comes to gaming though, as it is an incredibly niche franchise (my guess is due to a lack of consistency that made the quality hit or miss since they couldn't iterate on previous designs).

As for why people like the series so much, my guess is the anime had a lot to do with it similarly to how Pokémon got its jump start (The difference being that the games were much more consistent quality wise). Also, the lore is really cool, and I'd love to see Digimon become a bit more mainstream again. The darker tone makes it interesting in a way that Pokémon never can be (not that that's necessarily a bad thing.

Wait what.
It's a double negative. He's saying you're right.

EDIT: I clearly need to brush up on my reading comprehension.
EDIT EDIT: Also BlazBlue Naoto really does give off Sora vibes. I can't unsee it now.
 
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P.Kat

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What if we get a Tales rep but it turns out to be Alphen to promote the upcoming Tales of Arise?



I personally wouldn't mind too much since I think his design is pretty badass.
I wouldn't mind having him as character either he definitely looks badass, like he's ready to rip a dragon in two or three.
 

blackghost

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Dimitry is by FAR my least favorite 3 houses lord...
i mean we can see your profile pic.... lol

That’s the big problem with predicting fighters before this fighter’s pass, there isn’t a structure to it.

Why important? Joker isn’t even slightly important and he still gets the rep status for his series because Sakurai likes persona 5. Not to mention, Sakurai also has played xenoblade 2 and enjoyed it. He praised Soft for their work on the game, calling it an achievement.
joker is important in the same way ike is significant to FE. he is the character that pushed the game franchise to new heights. persona has sold 10 million copies as a series. Perona 5 is 2.7 million of that total.
 
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Sysreq

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People mostly just want Agumon in the game to have a battle to the death between rival franchises, like Ryu and Terry or Mario and Sonic.
IMO that kind of novelty wears off fast.
Again. Augumon is not a video game character on a technicality. It is just straight up a video game character. I'm not going to argue about Digimon not being all that influential an IP when it comes to gaming though, as it is an incredibly niche franchise (my guess is due to a lack of consistency that made the quality hit or miss since they couldn't iterate on previous designs).

As for why people like the series so much, my guess is the anime had a lot to do with it similarly to how Pokémon got its jump start (The difference being that the games were much more consistent quality wise). Also, the lore is really cool, and I'd love to see Digimon become a bit more mainstream again. The darker tone makes it interesting in a way that Pokémon never can be (not that that's necessarily a bad thing.
You know what, if you think Agumon's a video game character, that's fine, but asking anyone who knew Digimon when they were a kid the question: "Hey, remember Agumon? Was he from a video game?" They're gonna say "What? No he was from the Digimon anime wasn't he?" And in my personal opinion, that's what matters. We can argue all day whether virtual pets count as video games or not, but I think when Sakurai is choosing DLC characters, he's gonna choose characters that aren't in a weird gray zone, especially ones that come from a history of bad to mediocre games (I've played several). But the anime was good though.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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In regards to Heihachi's Mii Fighter costume being absent, one very important thing to point out is that the Mii Fighter costumes coming with Terry were all fighting game-themed. Not only were there costumes based on SNK fighting game characters, but we also saw the return of the Smash 4 costumes based on Akira and Jacky from Virtua Fighter. It would've made perfect sense to include Heihachi's Mii Fighter costume there, yet he's notably the only one absent.

Of course, there's the inevitable argument of "He's a Namco character, so his costume is being held back to be released with another Namco character", which admittedly does make sense... but then following that logic, Akira and Jacky should've been released with Joker since all three are Sega characters, yet they were instead released with Terry, an SNK character... so what gives?
Were Akira and Jacky new costumes?
Nope, they were Smash 4 DLC costumes.
Then them not being ready probably wasn't the reason.
 

GKMLTTSB

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People mostly just want Agumon in the game to have a battle to the death between rival franchises, like Ryu and Terry or Mario and Sonic.
Honestly, I keep seeing people look back on Digimon as though it was a rival to Pokemon and, having lived through the time when both became prominent, I never observed it legitimately being so or even being treated as such. I'm sure Bandai-Namco wished it were, but honestly, the closest thing to a rivalry I ever observed was people mocking the idea that Digimon could even be thought of as such.

There were plenty of properties at the time cashing in on the Monster Collection/Battle craze, sure, but it seems that anything that did well generally did so alongside Pokemon. It was never really a Horde vs. Alliance situation or anything, but more an entree with sides type of thing.

Really, the closest thing to a rivalry Pokemon had was in the Card Game realm with Yu-Gi-Oh! and even then it just kinda... faded.

If people like Agumon, that's fine, and I can definitely see the argument for representing digital pets in Smash, but I do feel that Digimon's historical relevance to Pokemon has been drastically inflated. If Agumon gets in, it will be for the digital pet angle or for sheer novelty, but in terms of relevance/significance otherwise, I honestly wouldn't put him much higher than Klonoa and Splatterhouse Rick.
 
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Idon

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joker is important in the same way ike is significant to FE. he is the character that pushed the game franchise to new heights. persona has sold 10 million copies as a series. Perona 5 is 2.7 million of that total.
The better analogy would be Chrom/Robin.
Ike, while much beloved, had his games sell like absolute garbage, lmao.

Good thing Awakening was there to pick up the slack with the wonderful wonderful magic of an actually decent marketing campaign on the then highest selling Nintendo console of all time (and waifus, but that's another can of worms.)
 

BlackInk

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The better analogy would be Chrom/Robin.
Ike, while much beloved, had his games sell like absolute garbage, lmao.

Good thing Awakening was there to pick up the slack with the wonderful wonderful magic of an actually decent marketing campaign on the then highest selling Nintendo console of all time (and waifus, but that's another can of worms.)
We can even give birth to waifus in Awakening.
 

DMTN

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Heihachi's Smash 4 costume is probably never going to come back, because it uses his design from Tekken Tag 2. I believe Smash 4 is actually the last game to use that design. If they were to make Heihachi a Mii costume again, I think they would at least update the costume to make it resemble the classic Heihachi we all know. That might be an explanation for why they didn't include the costume in Terry's batch.
 

Izanagi97

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Y'know, with those 5-6 characters who are more or less not going to be FP5 it makes me wonder if there are still any old leaks that are still live that have gotten the DLC right so far and don't include any of those characters as part of FP5 in their lists (Scorpion, Crash, Ryu, Geno, Doomslayer, and Rex)
 

Desert Croc

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H
- Hakumen is Jin, Ragna's brother, from an alternate timeline using the suit of Terumi's true form

At least they're creative in explaining their clone characters. lol
(I don't think Hakumen and Susano-oo play anything alike. It's just a joke)

Also, I thought Naoto was a Persona character. Also also, that part you have in the spoiler box is probably the funniest plot I've read. Wasn't expecting it since the series seems to take itself so seriously.

EDIT: Now that I think about it I think he is, but there's also a Naoto in BlazBlue. If I recall correctly they're both in BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle.
Blazblue’s lore such a mess, it’s even worse than Kingdom Hearts honestly.
 
D

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Regarding the Mii costumes theories, I have thought about this lately and just came into the conclusion by simple logic that while there might be a pattern with the costumes, they really don't give us an idea of which character or company is next and that pretty much for speculation are quite useless.

Just recalling, we have gotten four waves of Mii costumes with each newcomer (Bolded are the new costumes):
  • We got P3 Protagonist outfit, P4 Protagonist Outfit, Morgana Hat, Teddie Hat, Tails costume and Knuckles costume. Only pattern with this one? Same company but different franchises and genres
  • We got Slime Hat, Erdrick Armor costume, Martial Artists costumes and Veronica costume. Pattern? Same franchise
  • Sans costume, Goemon costume, Rocket Grunts costumes, Protoman costume, and Zero costume costumes came with Banjo. Not really a pattern with this one
  • Nakoruru costume, Iori costume, Ryo costume, Akira costume and Jacky costume were shown alongside Terry. This ones were the same genre, Fighting games but from different franchises and two companies
What gives us realistically for fighter 5? Really nothing, real only pattern so far is that we are getting more new costumes in comparison with returning costumes each wave. The costumes that came with Banjo tell us that Nintendo can get a character from a company but we won't necessarily see any other content from that company at least with the character (franchises with only one popular character might not be getting costumes from the series, KOS-MOS is an example), with Terry we know that even if not shown with the other costumes of the company we can still get the Mii costumes returning later (so pretty much absence of a costume doesn't mean necessarily a point in favor of the character missing, Geno might come or not later but the lack of a Mii costume is not an indication of it as it can come back later), with DQ we know we might only get costumes relating to the franchise (so we could get a new franchise in the game and have 4-5 costumes related to the franchise, Tekken or Tales could get a full set of costumes without needing any other franchise).

Can we get a repeat of one of the patterns from before? Sure, but at this point they don't really support characters one way or another. Pretty much any character can be fitted on the 4 patterns that we have seen before and given that one is pretty much random, its truly a situation where anyone can be in.

Plus regarding theories like the power of six about the upcoming newcomers being made from leftover assets due to being decided around E3? That pretty much sounds like bs, the timeframe between a possible release for Fighter 6 and being decided (June 2019 to Feb-March 2020, about 8 months) is quite longer between the start of Joker development and his release (December 2018-April 2019, 6 months) and we know that Fighter 6 and 7 are probably being worked on right now. Unless they suddenly decide to release Fighter 6 alongside Fighter 5 and Fighter 6 missing a stage and other elements, I see it highly unlikely.
 

GoodGrief741

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IMO that kind of novelty wears off fast.

You know what, if you think Agumon's a video game character, that's fine, but asking anyone who knew Digimon when they were a kid the question: "Hey, remember Agumon? Was he from a video game?" They're gonna say "What? No he was from the Digimon anime wasn't he?" And in my personal opinion, that's what matters. We can argue all day whether virtual pets count as video games or not, but I think when Sakurai is choosing DLC characters, he's gonna choose characters that aren't in a weird gray zone, especially ones that come from a history of bad to mediocre games (I've played several). But the anime was good though.
If your argument is that Agumon is unlikely because people don't remember Agumon as a videogame likely, then I agree, but... Doesn't that also hurt KOS-MOS?
 
D

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If your argument is that Agumon is unlikely because people don't remember Agumon as a videogame likely, then I agree, but... Doesn't that also hurt KOS-MOS?
KOS-MOS is associated with a vidoe game, mind you. Yeah it got an anime, but nonetheless is still adapted from the game.
 

GoodGrief741

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KOS-MOS is associated with a vidoe game, mind you. Yeah it got an anime, but nonetheless is still adapted from the game.
I meant that, well, KOS-MOS isn't known as a videogame character either because she's just not known. Agumon might be known better from a different medium, but at least people know who he is. If lack of recognition is a problem, that's one that both suffer from.
 
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D

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I meant that, well, KOS-MOS isn't known as a videogame character either because she's just not known. Agumon might be known better from a different medium, but at least people know who he is.
KOS-MOS is still associated as a game character, and even the people who at least saw her identify her as a game character. Digimon is the only franchise I see having an anime/videogame dissonance it's hard to associate it.
 

BlackInk

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As long as it's not Nah, you do you, buddy.
It’s literally a feature so Lucina can exist.
I meant that, well, KOS-MOS isn't known as a videogame character either because she's just not known. Agumon might be known better from a different medium, but at least people know who he is. If lack of recognition is a problem, that's one that both suffer from.
Did you forget that ultimate kinda expects you to know Rex?
 
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GoodGrief741

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KOS-MOS is still associated as a game character, and even the people who at least saw her identify her as a game character. Digimon is the only franchise I see having an anime/videogame dissonance it's hard to associate it.
Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Even if KOS-MOS is really obscure, she is technically in consideration. Jury's out on Agumon, I guess.

Though for all we know Sakurai doesn't give two ****s about the Digimon confusion. I don't buy that, but it is a possibility.
 
D

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Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Even if KOS-MOS is really obscure, she is technically in consideration. Jury's out on Agumon, I guess.

Though for all we know Sakurai doesn't give two ****s about the Digimon confusion. I don't buy that, but it is a possibility.
If Digimon did get in watch as there will be Balagtasan all over the Smash community on the debate of anime characters in Smash.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

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Seeing KOS-MOS just as a Bandai Namco rep is only seeing one side of things.
KOS-MOS is important to Monolith Soft and the company is now with Nintendo. They managed to make Nintendo brand modern JRPG which Iwata always wanted and were involved with Nintendo's recent big titles too like Splatoon, BotW, and of course Smash Ultimate. Monolith is important to Nintendo.
Yes, KOS-MOS's right belongs to Bandai Namco and she is not that important character compared to Heihachi or Agumon. But Bandai Namco is not the one deciding the DLC lineup. It's Nintendo. I can totally understand the timeline they go with KOS-MOS instead of other Bamco titans.
Is choosing KOS-MOS over Heihachi a disgrace to Bamco? I don't think so. Business is a business. They still get money. Bandai Namco still gets a slot.
Banjo over Master Chief didn't make MS mad. I'm sure people here gone crazy if Geno was chosen over Hero despite that's an underdog win objectively speaking. And I don't think that made SE salty.
DLC so far has similarities. Joker, he is not a Nintendo boy by any means but SMT has close tie with Nintendo. Hero, the early days of DQ were always with Nintendo. Banjo, even Nintendo said welcome back to them. Terry, he doesn't really has close relation with Nintendo but SNK games had huge influence to Smash itself.
They are coming from out of nowhere at a glance, but they are all somehow related to Nintendo or Smash beneath the surface. I think KOS-MOS fits into this category as well. I wcouldn't say she's likely, but I wouldn't totally count her out.
 

GoodGrief741

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Balagtasan is Filipino form of debate done in verse. The term is derived from the surname of Francisco Balagtas.[1][2] - Wikipedia.

In other words, debates.
Oh, well I dunno about that. I mean, with the general audience, for sure, everyone's going to be clamoring for anime characters. (Not that they aren't already, but that will definitely set Sakurai back after any progress his constant reminders might have made)

But, over here in the hardcore space? I mean, we all know that technically Digimon started as videogames. Sure, it would probably clarify that yes, LCD games are video games, and stuff like Tamagotchi would grow in support as a result, along with other mainly-anime franchises (seen Medabots mentioned, for example). But it probably won't have people thinking anime characters can get in Smash.

Especially because Sakurai has become very savvy lately, and just like he explained what's an SNK when he needed to, he would probably be very specific in noting that Digimon games predate the anime.

Seeing KOS-MOS just as a Bandai Namco rep is only seeing one side of things.
KOS-MOS is important to Monolith Soft and the company is now with Nintendo. They managed to make Nintendo brand modern JRPG which Iwata always wanted and were involved with Nintendo's recent big titles too like Splatoon, BotW, and of course Smash Ultimate. Monolith is important to Nintendo.
Yes, KOS-MOS's right belongs to Bandai Namco and she is not that important character compared to Heihachi or Agumon. But Bandai Namco is not the one deciding the DLC lineup. It's Nintendo. I can totally understand the timeline they go with KOS-MOS instead of other Bamco titans.
Is choosing KOS-MOS over Heihachi a disgrace to Bamco? I don't think so. Business is a business. They still get money. Bandai Namco still gets a slot.
Banjo over Master Chief didn't make MS mad. I'm sure people here gone crazy if Geno was chosen over Hero despite that's an underdog win objectively speaking. And I don't think that made SE salty.
DLC so far has similarities. Joker, he is not a Nintendo boy by any means but SMT has close tie with Nintendo. Hero, the early days of DQ were always with Nintendo. Banjo, even Nintendo said welcome back to them. Terry, he doesn't really has close relation with Nintendo but SNK games had huge influence to Smash itself.
They are coming from out of nowhere at a glance, but they are all somehow related to Nintendo or Smash beneath the surface. I think KOS-MOS fits into this category as well. I wcouldn't say she's likely, but I wouldn't totally count her out.
Characters aren't chosen as company reps, they're chosen for their own merits. I doubt Sakurai would look at KOS-MOS just because a studio she doesn't belong to considers her their mascot.
 
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KatKit

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Blazblue added protagonists from its ecchi/slice of life manga, light novel, and visual novel spinoffs into its main game's storyline and playable roster. Let's reflect on that for a second. Some of its side characters had complete stories of their own from different universes told through different mediums... all so that they can be put in a fighting game.

Its story is pretty bonkers (which is probably why it was going to be an RPG at first lol), but it created a fairly cohesive multiverse, and each game goes out of its way to familiarize players with its lore. There are people who've bought the games for mostly for the story, and I even know of a few cases where they bought it for the music (and the music is good). Naturally, it's what's used to host a crossover with similar series with their own intricate storylines and zany characters.

Princess Ruto was naked in Ocarina of Time,
She was the only Zora to be clothed and it looked so jarring lol.
Fun fact: there are several unused character models left in the game's code, one of which is Princess Ruto. I think she was going to be a different character (most likely Lulu Sr.), but they dropped it due to time constraints. Lulu's mom was mentioned, but never shown, IIRC.
 
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GKMLTTSB

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Since we've hit on the subject of games that are known in large part due to their associated anime and Monster Rancher is hitting the Switch now, anyone keen on it?

I'm not super-fond of 'generic creature' roster additions, so I'd prefer to see a breeder (Holly) take the slot, though that would make more sense with a Pokemon Trainer type implementation which doesn't really suit the Monster Rancher battle style...

If it were a creature, Suezo and Mocchi are the most recognizable (with the former having seniority), though I'm fond of the pixie-type monsters, personally.... One of the butterflies or Dixie could be fun...

Maybe just throw Holly in the background even if there's no swapping mechanic. >_>
(Or have a swap mechanic only at the start of each stock)
 
D

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Blazblue added protagonists from its ecchi/slice of life manga, light novel, and visual novel spinoffs into its main game's storyline and playable roster. Let's reflect on that for a second. Some of its side characters had complete stories of their own from different universes told through different mediums... all so that they can be put in a fighting game.

Its story is pretty bonkers (which is probably why it was going to be an RPG at first lol), but it created a fairly cohesive multiverse, and each game goes out of its way to familiarize players with its lore. There are people who've bought the games for mostly for the story, and I even know of a few cases where they bought it for the music (and the music is good). Naturally, it's what's used to host a crossover with similar series with their own intricate storylines and zany characters.
No wonder the game has a convoluted lore compared to other fighting games. But in my opinion, despite its convolutedness, I kind of see that as one of the franchise's selling points. Fighting games with actual plotlines are much, much more interesting compared to other games. Games like Guilty Gear and King of Fighters double down on this.

Seeing KOS-MOS just as a Bandai Namco rep is only seeing one side of things.
KOS-MOS is important to Monolith Soft and the company is now with Nintendo. They managed to make Nintendo brand modern JRPG which Iwata always wanted and were involved with Nintendo's recent big titles too like Splatoon, BotW, and of course Smash Ultimate. Monolith is important to Nintendo.
Yes, KOS-MOS's right belongs to Bandai Namco and she is not that important character compared to Heihachi or Agumon. But Bandai Namco is not the one deciding the DLC lineup. It's Nintendo. I can totally understand the timeline they go with KOS-MOS instead of other Bamco titans.
Is choosing KOS-MOS over Heihachi a disgrace to Bamco? I don't think so. Business is a business. They still get money. Bandai Namco still gets a slot.
Banjo over Master Chief didn't make MS mad. I'm sure people here gone crazy if Geno was chosen over Hero despite that's an underdog win objectively speaking. And I don't think that made SE salty.
DLC so far has similarities. Joker, he is not a Nintendo boy by any means but SMT has close tie with Nintendo. Hero, the early days of DQ were always with Nintendo. Banjo, even Nintendo said welcome back to them. Terry, he doesn't really has close relation with Nintendo but SNK games had huge influence to Smash itself.
They are coming from out of nowhere at a glance, but they are all somehow related to Nintendo or Smash beneath the surface. I think KOS-MOS fits into this category as well. I wcouldn't say she's likely, but I wouldn't totally count her out.
I would definitely ssay the same for Capcom. I mean, I wouldn't mind if Dante/Phoenix/Jill would be selected over Morrigan, who has been part of Capcom's crossover library since day one. They have the backing of the fans, so why not?

Totally agree on the last part.
 

Pinguino21v

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If we are talking about games that are also animes or manga, what do people think of .hack as Bamco representation (or is it owned by CyberConnect2) ?
 
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Jassassino

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IMO that kind of novelty wears off fast.

You know what, if you think Agumon's a video game character, that's fine, but asking anyone who knew Digimon when they were a kid the question: "Hey, remember Agumon? Was he from a video game?" They're gonna say "What? No he was from the Digimon anime wasn't he?" And in my personal opinion, that's what matters. We can argue all day whether virtual pets count as video games or not, but I think when Sakurai is choosing DLC characters, he's gonna choose characters that aren't in a weird gray zone, especially ones that come from a history of bad to mediocre games (I've played several). But the anime was good though.
Speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure me and a host of others were introduced to Digimon through the Digimon Worlds franchise on PS1.
 

Guybrush20X6

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To be entirely fair, the vast majority of the public thinks that Pokemon was a Japanese cartoon that was a fad in the late 90's and it suddenly, out of nowhere came back as Pokemon Go.

Or at least that's the impression I got from reading the old people news sites.
 

BlackInk

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Seeing KOS-MOS just as a Bandai Namco rep is only seeing one side of things.
KOS-MOS is important to Monolith Soft and the company is now with Nintendo. They managed to make Nintendo brand modern JRPG which Iwata always wanted and were involved with Nintendo's recent big titles too like Splatoon, BotW, and of course Smash Ultimate. Monolith is important to Nintendo.
Yes, KOS-MOS's right belongs to Bandai Namco and she is not that important character compared to Heihachi or Agumon. But Bandai Namco is not the one deciding the DLC lineup. It's Nintendo. I can totally understand the timeline they go with KOS-MOS instead of other Bamco titans.
Is choosing KOS-MOS over Heihachi a disgrace to Bamco? I don't think so. Business is a business. They still get money. Bandai Namco still gets a slot.
Banjo over Master Chief didn't make MS mad. I'm sure people here gone crazy if Geno was chosen over Hero despite that's an underdog win objectively speaking. And I don't think that made SE salty.
DLC so far has similarities. Joker, he is not a Nintendo boy by any means but SMT has close tie with Nintendo. Hero, the early days of DQ were always with Nintendo. Banjo, even Nintendo said welcome back to them. Terry, he doesn't really has close relation with Nintendo but SNK games had huge influence to Smash itself.
They are coming from out of nowhere at a glance, but they are all somehow related to Nintendo or Smash beneath the surface. I think KOS-MOS fits into this category as well. I wcouldn't say she's likely, but I wouldn't totally count her out.
Joker and Terry are picks that Sakurai obviously made due to his experience with them and their gamess, which he is very open with. Banjo and Hero are picks Sakurai has done for the fans. Getting Kosmos into smash as dlc is basically a Sakurai thing because he appreciates Monoloith Soft’s work, specifically xenoblade 2.
 

SirCamp

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So this isn't exactly about newcomer DLC, but how much do y'all wanna bet we see a Pokeball guy Mii hat dlc added to smash at some point down the line. Seems like the perfect thing for a hat.
 

Guybrush20X6

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Though on Mii costumes, there's 3 categories of missing DLC outfits (ignoring a lot of the base game ones that were dropped from 4. RIP cat ears)

Namco Outfits: Gil, Hehachi, Lloyd
Capcom: Mega Man X, Megaman.EXE, Monster Hunter Steel Armor, Monster Hunter Rathalos Armor
Square Enix: Chocobo Hat, Geno

I do find it a bit odd they only brought back Proto Man and Zero for Capcom outfits but it has me thinking they may be staggering the releases, inserting a couple of Capcom costumes into the slot where the company who didn't have any costumes had a character. Sega didn't release all their Mii costumes at once after all, instead saving the Virtua Fighter ones for when a Fighting Game character was added.
 

Evil Trapezium

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GuyManRunnin
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SW-2246-2414-0334
Namco Outfits: Gil, Hehachi, Lloyd
Capcom: Mega Man X, Megaman.EXE, Monster Hunter Steel Armor, Monster Hunter Rathalos Armor
Square Enix: Chocobo Hat, Geno
Looks like all of these Mii costumes will become fighters because they didn't appear with Hero or Terry.

Sweet we can have a Chocobo as a fighter!
 
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