Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[3BitSaurus]

Any news regarding the supposed private video on the Smash Youtube channel? Or are we still in the dark on that front?

 

[Deleted member]

Any news regarding the supposed private video on the Smash Youtube channel? Or are we still in the dark on that front?

We're still most likely in the dark. Nothing much has happened...unless someone tried to hack into it, which is unlikely.

 

[3BitSaurus]

We're still most likely in the dark. Nothing much has happened...unless someone tried to hack into it, which is unlikely.

...Yeah, no, that's completely out of question. I meant whether or not the channel remained at the top of people's lists or if any reedited version of Terry's trailer came out or something.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Any news regarding the supposed private video on the Smash Youtube channel? Or are we still in the dark on that front?

No news, wouldn't surprise me if it was just adding tags to Terry's extended trailer

 

[Deleted member]

...Yeah, no, that's completely out of question. I meant whether or not the channel remained at the top of people's lists or if any reedited version of Terry's trailer came out or something.

It didn't come out for me, so...

 

[PhantomShab]

This is specifically ignoring how half of the thread always fights about whether Sabi has info or faked a C&D for attention so the first example is flatout wrong. I'd ask for you to send a link or quote all the people suggesting Reimu is indeed a huge bombshell for a western event but I'm gonna go on a limb and guess you won't provide that or it's generalized as "I think Reimu would be dope", "That'd be cool" or "God I wish" suddenly all becoming "OMG REIMU IS ABSOLUTELY GONNA BE SHOWN AT TGA



Also when the comparison is a character support thread which, AGAIN, only exists to go "OMG YOU GUYS THIS SUPER SPECIFIC CHARACTER IS THE KITTY'S ******* LET'S ONLY EVER TALK ABOUT THEM" regardless of which character it is, this isn't nearly as much of an echo chamber when compared to any support threads

You're right, I'm not going to go digging for quotes in this behemoth of a thread. There isn't a single thread on this site that isn't an echo chamber to some extent. Just because you think this place is less of an echo chamber doesnt mean it isn't one. The fact that you suggested something as ridiculous as people looking at all the in-game evidence of Square being on the harder side to work with as nothing but paranoia from disgruntled Geno fans without getting called out on it (instead you got agreed with) tells me this place is an echo chamber in it's own right.

 

[Calamitas]

Any news regarding the supposed private video on the Smash Youtube channel? Or are we still in the dark on that front?

Have some pages. It took ten days before we actually got Terry's full trailer, too.

No news, wouldn't surprise me if it was just adding tags to Terry's extended trailer

I doubt that. I just really can't see them not having the video be exactly as they want it when it's uploaded.

 

[KatKit]

Banjo-Kazooie

I'm glad someone mentioned B/K... I think it's fitting that I use this post to talk about them since it's the same number as their spirit (1337!).

They're not my most wanted, but I know their fans have been wanting it forever and that they seemed like a pipedream. They ended up being straightforward yet way more fun to use than I thought. They really feel like they belong with Nintendo, and I can understand how even after all this time you're still hype. I'm that way for Joker/Terry/Hero.

There's a lot of wish fulfillment going on in this game. I know when it's all said and done that the roster is going to be totally bonkers. It already is TBH. I'm grateful.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Have some pages. It took ten days before we actually got Terry's full trailer, too.



I doubt that. I just really can't see them not having the video be exactly as they want it when it's uploaded.

Hey, they ****ed up trailers and box art reveals before so you never know

You're right, I'm not going to go digging for quotes in this behemoth of a thread. There isn't a single thread on this site that isn't an echo chamber to some extent. Just because you think this place is less of an echo chamber doesnt mean it isn't one. The fact that you suggested something as ridiculous as people looking at all the in-game evidence of Square being on the harder side to work with as nothing but paranoia from disgruntled Geno fans without getting called out on it (instead you got agreed with) tells me this place is an echo chamber in it's own right.

I think I figured out your problem. For you, it's either "I agree!" Or "I disagree!". When idk, Lesley says she's boycotting unless we get a female character again, I'd just not do anything cause whatever, how she wants to spend her money is her own business and I don't care enough to even think of an argument. Yet because I'm not saying "I disagree!" You'll assume I agree as you know I don't hate the idea of more women in the game. Do correct me if I'm wrong though

 

[SKX31]

When Smash 4 was new and we started getting a lot of “gimmick” fighters, I started to miss the more simplistic movesets. Now I see the light, I guess.

Though to be fair, Banio feeling kind of samey is probably the result of there being so many characters in the game.

's also sandwiched between two characters who rose to notoriety quickly. In a weird way, B-K got overshadowed by:

* , whos ability to RNG his way to victory both lead to loads of casual silliness and intense discussions whether he should be banned or not. He's the first character with a mana bar, two insta-kill projectiles (which can be reflected) and Kamikaze. Not to mention the Russian Roulette called Hocus Pocus. Hero has about 5 different ways to deal 50 % in one swoop, but is also prime combo food.

* . Sure it's still early, but we're talking two permanent supers at 100 %, back special and dodge attack. One can combo dodge attack into Power Geyser, or a lot of normals into Buster Wolf. Sure, he's extremely weak to gimps, but he can tack on damage like crazy too (Just look at the Jab-> Power Dunk combo) The fact that he came with 50 songs and 20 cameos also blew loads of peoples' minds instantly.

Really, it's extremely difficult to top those two.

 

[KillerCage]

Dunno... I think having all 5 forms is a bit too much imo. I'd just stick with Agumon, Greymon and MetalGreymon and have WarGreymon as the Final Smash - the moveset becomes more cohesive that way. I also think 20% is, in fact, too low lol. I think around 50% would be better? Also, representing it with a meter in the UI would be cool.

Also... what do you have against Heihachi, man? Just curious.

I like what BrawlFan1 did with Agumon's gimmick and incorporating Greymon, Metalgreymon, and Wargreymon, but I do agree with you that Wargreymon should have been Agumon's Final Smash.

Regarding Heihachi, I don't think he would be a fun character to play with.
Heihachi, while being considered however briefly, was rejected by Sakurai for being too difficult to adapt into Smash.
The idea of tilt inputs, as suggested by FelicianFan's video, kills Smash Bros' easy to pick up and play philosophy.
Yes we do have special command input for Ryu, Ken, and Terry, but those only require directional inputs in combination with button inputs.
Not to mention there are (in my opinion) better choices for a Tekken rep such as Jin and Kazuya.
Sakurai himself said that a character does not have to recognizable, just fun to play which I fear Heihachi will not be.

 

[Fenriraga]

Bit of a tanget, but when DLC does eventually wrap up, I hope they edit the opening and Classic Mode mural to include them.

As weird as it is, I don't like being reminded that DLC is DLC, at least for Smash and fighting games. I want em to feel natural and like they were here from the beginning.

Especially with how ambitious and large Ultimate is. I want every character here engrained into every possible aspect of this game, even if they joined late.

 

[Deleted member]

I guess I’m the opposite.

Banjo was one of my never-evers and he had an amazing reveal. I’m really glad he’s finally in the game... but his moveset is so disappointing. He’s kind of sluggish and boring.

I felt they actually could have had a few more moves from Tooie and Grunty's Revenge. Especially since a part of his kit in these games involved actions that were upgraded in the sequels.

 

[3BitSaurus]

's also sandwiched between two characters who rose to notoriety quickly. In a weird way, B-K got overshadowed by:

* , whos ability to RNG his way to victory both lead to loads of casual silliness and intense discussions whether he should be banned or not. He's the first character with a mana bar, two insta-kill projectiles (which can be reflected) and Kamikaze. Not to mention the Russian Roulette called Hocus Pocus. Hero has about 5 different ways to deal 50 % in one swoop, but is also prime combo food.

* . Sure it's still early, but we're talking two permanent supers at 100 %, back special and dodge attack. One can combo dodge attack into Power Geyser, or a lot of normals into Buster Wolf. Sure, he's extremely weak to gimps, but he can tack on damage like crazy too (Just look at the Jab-> Power Dunk combo) The fact that he came with 50 songs and 20 cameos also blew loads of peoples' minds instantly.

Really, it's extremely difficult to top those two.

Honestly, I don't think it's a matter of being "overshadowed" - It's just that the bear and bird are simpler - nothing too broken or RNG nor any insane mechanics. Doesn't mean that there weren't dozens of montage videos, tutorials and discussion, just that the discussion was kept on simpler terms.

Similarly, when Roy, Lucas and Ryu were all released at the same time in 4, a lot of the focus was on Ryu because of the new stuff he brought. I feel like it's a similar situation here.

I like what BrawlFan1 did with Agumon's gimmick and incorporating Greymon, Metalgreymon, and Wargreymon, but I do agree with you that Wargreymon should have been Agumon's Final Smash.

Regarding Heihachi, I don't think he would be a fun character to play with.
Heihachi, while being considered however briefly, was rejected by Sakurai for being too difficult to adapt into Smash.
The idea of tilt inputs, as suggested by FelicianFan's video, kills Smash Bros' easy to pick up and play philosophy.
Yes we do have special command input for Ryu, Ken, and Terry, but those only require directional inputs in combination with button inputs.
Not to mention there are (in my opinion) better choices for a Tekken rep such as Jin and Kazuya.
Sakurai himself said that a character does not have to recognizable, just fun to play which I fear Heihachi will not be.

Ah, I see, I presumed you disliked Heihachi in particular from your reactions - guess you were probably just memeing and it flew over my head.

I mean, Terry is not my style as a competitive player either, but I still have fun with him in casuals. A character being harder to pick up and main normally doesn't prevent players from casually having fun with them imo.

Besides, Heihachi would be just one character out of 70+, so if one can't play him... there's a lot of other options.

 

[Fenriraga]

Banjo was one of my never-evers and he had an amazing reveal. I’m really glad he’s finally in the game... but his moveset is so disappointing. He’s kind of sluggish and boring.

So like almost every one of the original 12, then?

He really IS home!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly, I don't think it's a matter of being "overshadowed" - It's just that the bear and bird are simpler - nothing too broken or RNG nor any insane mechanics. Doesn't mean that there weren't dozens of montage videos, tutorials and discussion, just that the discussion was kept on simpler terms.

Similarly, when Roy, Lucas and Ryu were all released at the same time in 4, a lot of the focus was on Ryu because of the new stuff he brought. I feel like it's a similar situation here.



Ah, I see, I presumed you disliked Heihachi in particular from your reactions - guess you were probably just memeing and it flew over my head.

I mean, Terry is not my style as a competitive player either, but I still have fun with him in casuals. A character being harder to pick up and main normally doesn't prevent players from casually having fun with them imo.

Besides, Heihachi would be just one character out of 70+, so if one can't play him... there's a lot of other options.

I mean, maybe it's because of who I followed but the most I saw of Banjo on twitter when he released was Sonic's dumbass F Smash outranging Banjo's and in one case, a compilation of someone bodying Banjos for using Wonderwing in neutral and thinking they get to win because of it. Joker, Hero and Terry got significantly more twitter videos with some nutty ****. Granted that's a case of Banjo's balance and people say he's either low, mid or high tier but I'd think I'd have seen more videos then

 

[Calamitas]

Hey, they ****ed up trailers and box art reveals before so you never know

Well I don't ever recall the channel getting this kind of update without there being a video in the near future, so colour me light blue doubtful.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I mean, maybe it's because of who I followed but the most I saw of Banjo on twitter when he released was Sonic's dumbass F Smash outranging Banjo's and in one case, a compilation of someone bodying Banjos for using Wonderwing in neutral and thinking they get to win because of it. Joker, Hero and Terry got significantly more twitter videos with some nutty ****. Granted that's a case of Banjo's balance and people say he's either low, mid or high tier but I'd think I'd have seen more videos then

It was the exact opposite for me - I saw way more videos for Banjo than I'm seeing for Terry now. I guess in the end these things shouldn't be taken in a "there was more/less talk" manner, because it's all dictated by who you follow.

 

[SNEKeater]

Honestly, Heihachi isn't one of my most wanteds but just reading comments about him being not fun or interesting to play with, I don't know... I know everyone has his own opinion, but you can find comments like that for any character before they were playable. It happened with Terry, and at least for me there are few characters more enjoyable to play with than Terry.

So even if some people can't figure a moveset for X character or can't imagine themselves having a fun time with X character we all know Sakurai can do anything. We have a playable plant in the roster and Ridley was too big to be a playable character, I'm completely sure that Sakurai will eventually solve his problem in translating Heihachi to Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well I don't ever recall the channel getting this kind of update without there being a video in the near future, so colour me light blue doubtful.

At the same time I'm pessimistic about news soon, highly satisfied with Terry and all the SNK content or too busy with other stuff to care

 

[DarthEnderX]

Bit of a tanget, but when DLC does eventually wrap up, I hope they edit the opening and Classic Mode mural to include them.

As weird as it is, I don't like being reminded that DLC is DLC, at least for Smash and fighting games. I want em to feel natural and like they were here from the beginning.

Especially with how ambitious and large Ultimate is. I want every character here engrained into every possible aspect of this game, even if they joined late.

Same. I also really want there to be a new area of WoL eventually that has all the DLC characters and a bunch of their Spirits in it.

I was actually a little annoyed that DLC spirits have their own sections. Because the game already does a great job of surfacing any spirit you don't have on the spirit board.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Real talk about Spirits tho - having a Boss Board would be perfect. Being able to choose a boss I want to fight at any time with any character is something I greatly miss.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Real talk about Spirits tho - having a Boss Board would be perfect. Being able to choose a boss I want to fight at any time with any character is something I greatly miss.

It'd at least provide a more interesting challenge as I gutted Gruntilda on my first try and after like 3 tries Geese just killed himself. One of the most infamously dickish bosses in fighting game history and he just chucks himself off of the roof. Weak.

 

[PhantomShab]

Hey, they ****ed up trailers and box art reveals before so you never know

I think I figured out your problem. For you, it's either "I agree!" Or "I disagree!". When idk, Lesley says she's boycotting unless we get a female character again, I'd just not do anything cause whatever, how she wants to spend her money is her own business and I don't care enough to even think of an argument. Yet because I'm not saying "I disagree!" You'll assume I agree as you know I don't hate the idea of more women in the game. Do correct me if I'm wrong though

My problem is that you can say something as stupid as "only Geno fanboys think Square is hard to work with" while not only getting showered with likes, but also start telling me all the reasons that they are in fact hard to work with.

 

[Deleted member]

At the same time I'm pessimistic about news soon, highly satisfied with Terry and all the SNK content or too busy with other stuff to care

Same but with Hero, KoF '98, DQXI S, Undertale and Medievil.

 

[DoomJerk]

One of the most infamously dickish bosses in fighting game history and he just chucks himself off of the roof. Weak.

Well at least it's accurate to the trailer

 

[Droodle]

Implying this thread isn't an echo chamber. We have people who follow the words of piggybacking leakers like its gospel and people who actually think the freaking Touhou girl would be a bombshell at the VGAs.

1. This thread is much less of an echo chamber compared to the character specific echo chambers (I mean Geno thread is probably the biggest echo chamber on the site right now). Most people here don't 100% believe leaks/leakers, for example we had a ton of people here on both sides of the Mii leak.

2. No one here thinks that a Touhou rep would be something they reveal at the VGAs. The consensus that the next character reveal will be 100% revealed at the VGAs is in of itself an echo chamber opinion. There are a couple people here (like myself) who think that it is possible to get character 5 revealed before then (for example a anniversary Smash direct) , or even afterwards (January Direct). Yes, VGAs make sense for a reveal; but they aren't the only way to reveal a character, and even then usually Japan doesn't watch VGA's so they missed out on the reveal. Sakurai even admitted it was a last minute decision to show Joker at the Game Awards. There's also the potential for Touhou getting in post pass.

3. As a Geno supporter myself, I hate that people say Geno should've gotten in over Dragon Quest (Hero) and Final Fantasy (Cloud). Cloud and Hero are 100% more important picks then Geno, even if they may be harder to work with; these are two easily recognizable series not previously present in Smash that have had a huge impact on the game industry. Meanwhile Geno was a party member in 1 game in a franchise that already has tons of characters in Smash; the only thing he has going for him is fan demand and Sakurai mentioning the character a couple of times. If he gets in, he'd definitely be the most minor 3rd party character ever added in Smash. That's not to say he shouldn't be added in Smash, in my opinion Smash is best when it throws in fan demands and characters that no one expects. This is one of the reasons why I'm fine with any character making it in, as long as they are interesting.

4. Most people in this thread don't hate Geno; if anything most people love/hate the fanbase surrounding Geno which can both be really passionate and also really obnoxious about Geno getting in Smash.

Alright then. Let's weigh in a few things:

- If we get a Bamco rep, it's not Heihachi. I think a Tales Of rep - namely Lloyd or Yuri - has the most going for them. Being expressly talked about being included in interviews, the new trademarks, the absent Mii costume, and not being part of Pac-Man's taunt are just some things in their favor.
- Regarding Sakurai's comment about characters being fun, it's asinine to assume that being well known, relevant, or popular aren't important as well. Sometimes characters get in on the merit of being interesting or fun to play with, but I would argue that's not the main reason why about 70%+ of the roster is playable.
- I'm not 100% on the Mii costume leak being dead. I do put stock in Vergeben saying that they aren't FP5, but I am banking on Geno being revealed as post-pass DLC. In fact, I'll be bold and say he'll be the first one revealed. If he's not a fighter, he'll fit sure be a costume and will come with a song or two (which is good enough for me, honestly...I just want Beware the Forest Mushrooms) I also think that a Bethesda rep is very possible, whether or not it's Doomguy is debatable.
- If I were to bet on what I think the two most likely companies to have their character rep the 5th slot, I would say Bamco and Activision. I think Capcom could have a ppst-pass fighter, but I don't think it's likely. And if it does happen, it won't be from RE.

I'm thinking it'll probably be a Bamco character or a completely new third party. Crash has been stated to not be the 5th DLC character, and that is the only Activision character that I can see getting in.

I'm leaning towards Tales just because Heihachi would play very similarly to Terry in terms of overall feel. That said, I think everyone expects a Tales character as character 5 which makes me think Sakurai might play with our expectations a bit. So far none of the DLC's have been THAT obviously predictable. It might end up being Agumon, KOS-MOS, Chosen Undead (unlikely) or a 3rd party from another company; I don't think Nightmare is happening before Tekken or other Fighting Game sword wielders like Sol or Ragna.

That said, even if Bamco is character 5; if it isn't Tales or Tekken, I still 100% expect a character from both series in the post-pass.

It is also important for a character to be well known but if a character is fun to play, Sakurai is willing to overlook their lack of popularity. We don't know what the baseline for what Sakurai considers to be TOO unknown; that said don't expect a character from the mid 1980's that has never shown up ever again and has no fanbase.

Mii costume leak isn't dead, it's just proven that it could be faked with enough hard work.

Edit: I've stated this before, but I think the biggest real pattern towards DLC 5 is that they won't play like any of the other DLC characters. So far Joker, Banjo, Hero, and Terry have all played incredibly differently; and I think Sakurai purposefully created a Fighter Pass that accommodates diverse playstyles. This is one reason that I think Chosen Undead is unlikely for FP 5, as he'd share too many similarities with Hero in terms of playstyle. He'd wield a Sword and Shield, and probably have magic.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My problem is that you can say something as stupid as "only Geno fanboys think Square is hard to work with" while not only getting showered with likes, but also start telling me all the reasons that they are in fact hard to work with.

This is the third time you're choosing to suggest legal ****ery and Square actively trying to screw Smash over is the same thing. I'm starting to think you don't actually have any real arguments and just want attention. Go to the Geno echo chamber and go on about how much of an echo chamber this place is because one person made a joke. I'll be waiting till someone makes a Miriam Bloodstained echo chamber in the mean time.

 

[Deleted member]

Dont let any of these arguments distract you from the fact that Banjo-Kazooie is the best character that will ever be added to Smash.

Lol no.

 

[PhantomShab]

This is the third time you're choosing to suggest legal ****ery and Square actively trying to screw Smash over is the same thing. I'm starting to think you don't actually have any real arguments and just want attention. Go to the Geno echo chamber and go on about how much of an echo chamber this place is because one person made a joke. I'll be waiting till someone makes a Miriam Bloodstained echo chamber in the mean time.

I said from the get go that the reason Square is hard to work with means nothing to me. Just the fact that they are hard to work with is my point. A point which you even acknowledged by going "yeah ok but" like it matters what reasons they have to be hard to work with. People have been saying this since the Smash 4 days, this is not some conspiracy started by Geno supporters. If anything you'd think they would say that Square is easy to work with so they could feel like Geno is more likely.

 

[Deleted member]

Square is easy to work with doh.

 

[Night Gale]

I'll be waiting till someone makes a Miriam Bloodstained echo chamber in the mean time.

ARISE MY SHELF AND MY SHADOW.

****, I'll start one though. Bloodstained lived up to my expectations.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I said from the get go that the reason Square is hard to work with means nothing to me. Just the fact that they are hard to work with is my point. A point which you even acknowledged by going "yeah ok but" like it matters what reasons they have to be hard to work with. People have been saying this since the Smash 4 days, this is not some conspiracy started by Geno supporters. If anything you'd think they would say that Square is easy to work with so they could feel like Geno is more likely.

*trying to pretend different scenarios are actually the same because proper wording is for nerds once again*

This discussion's clearly going nowhere so I think it's best to stop this

 

[Deleted member]

ARISE MY SHELF AND MY SHADOW.

****, I'll start one though. Bloodstained lived up to my expectations.

If you make the thread, can you put me in the supporter's list too?

 

[Schnee117]

I'm starting to think you don't actually have any real arguments and just want attention.

That's all it's ever been

 

[Deleted member]

ARISE MY SHELF AND MY SHADOW.

****, I'll start one though. Bloodstained lived up to my expectations.

There is a Miriam support thread btw: https://smashboards.com/threads/the...ding-maiden-miriam-support-thread-wip.491913/

 

[yeet123]

I guess I’m the opposite.

Banjo was one of my never-evers and he had an amazing reveal. I’m really glad he’s finally in the game... but his moveset is so disappointing. He’s kind of sluggish and boring.

He fits right in w/ Mario, DK, Link, Samus, Fox, Yoshi, Ness, Pikachu, C Falcon, Puff, and Luigi.

To each their own. Some ppl think Banjo sucks. Some ppl have him at 5.8 mill in Elite Smash (like me).

 

[Deleted member]

Question for the thread since the topic of gimmicks seems to have semi-appeared again. What do you think of the chances of characters with similar gimmicks appearing within the same pass? Is it much like a dealbreaker?

For example, Tales characters seem to operate similar to Hero in regards to special attacks being tied to an MP bar that gets replenished. And while Terry has commands like Ryu, there are no other characters like that in the pass.

 

[Captain Fun]

He fits right in w/ Mario, DK, Link, Samus, Fox, Yoshi, Ness, Pikachu, C Falcon, Puff, and Luigi.

To each their own. Some ppl think Banjo sucks. Some ppl have him at 5.8 mill in Elite Smash (like me).

You do you. I’m not knocking on people who enjoy him. I just personally thought his moveset was Aa bit too basic for me.

FWIW I still enjoy playing him sometimes and he has some of the best animations in the game.

 

[PhantomShab]

*trying to pretend different scenarios are actually the same because proper wording is for nerds once again*
View attachment 246833
This discussion's clearly going nowhere so I think it's best to stop this

"I was just joking btw"

Ok lol