Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

Hey everyone what're we talking about tod-

Spending any of Ultimate's DLC slots on a first-party is a waste of that power. And since good movesets can be made out of pretty much anyone these days, then there is no reason for them to squander their power like that.

Oh alright I'm boutta head out.

 

[pixlyJolt]

Where's my Bandana Dee/Waddle Dee

 

[Ben Holt]

Hey Lesley. I know Verge deconfirmed Doomguy for FP5, but IIRC it was after Eternal's delay and the Mii "Leak". Were Doomguy originally slotted for FP5, it would explain the seeming confusion among leakers over FP5 and how ready the Mii hats look. I expect to see word of him before March.

PS I'm also rooting for a woman as a fighter.

Salamat, po.

I will legit be sad if Doom Slayer isn't in.
My theory is that Nintendo hadn't finalized the Fighter's Pass, since it was confirmed that they finished "characters 2 and 3" before starting on 4.
It seems odd to me that the two characters that always seem to get leaked are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.
Google Theory had predicted those two along with Banjo, which would be an insane coincidence. But they may have been pushed aside as later DLC to avoid leaks.
The old 5chan leak also predicted this lineup but with Steve instead of Banjo. Odd since they are both Microsoft characters, plus Vergeben had seemed so sure that Minecraft content was coming to Smash early on.
These facts just seem too convenient to all be coincidence.
This could be Gematsu 2.0, where that Smash 4 leak seemed to be disproven, but when Sakurai came out and said that Chrom was initially chosen over Robin, that old leak seems to have been true but based on outdated information.

 

[Deleted member]

Wrong.

There exists no such thing as a "wasted slot". Wasted resources? Perhaps, but every character is someone's main.
There is no limit to how many characters can be added. If Nintendo so chose, they could have a roster as big as Pokémon, and I don't just mean the half-assed Sword and Shield.

When dealing with DLC right now, it seems that the focus is bringing new faces to Smash. So far from what I've seen the reactions, a lot of people are liking the characters that were not being a main topic during speculation (). I can see this continuing as new worlds and new franchises can add a lot to the game still, even genres or games that Nintendo doesn't normally do.

Hey Lesley. I know Verge deconfirmed Doomguy for FP5, but IIRC it was after Eternal's delay and the Mii "Leak". Were Doomguy originally slotted for FP5, it would explain the seeming confusion among leakers over FP5 and how ready the Mii hats look. I expect to see word of him before March.

PS I'm also rooting for a woman as a fighter.

Salamat, po.

I doubt that a delay would have made a change in regards the plan for FP5, if Doomguy is in then he was meant to be on the post fighter pass DLC. Doubt that the leak being legit or fake has any bearing on Doomguy chances, and from the current reactions among some insiders like Gamexplain, it seems that is fake.

 

[Ben Holt]

When dealing with DLC right now, it seems that the focus is bringing new faces to Smash. So far from what I've seen the reactions, a lot of people are liking the characters that were not being a main topic during speculation (). I can see this continuing as new worlds and new franchises can add a lot to the game still, even genres or games that Nintendo doesn't normally do.

I doubt that a delay would have made a change in regards the plan for FP5, if Doomguy is in then he was meant to be on the post fighter pass DLC. Doubt that the leak being legit or fake has any bearing on Doomguy chances, and from the current reactions among some insiders like Gamexplain, it seems that is fake.

Hero wasn't a main topic of discussion?
Though we recognized him as Erdrick (the Western name for DQ3 Hero), Hero was the worst kept secret in the world.

 

[Deleted member]

Hero wasn't a main topic of discussion?
Though we recognized him as Erdrick (the Western name for DQ3 Hero), Hero was the worst kept secret in the world.

He was never a topic before the datamine and leaks, plus he was pretty much seen with dread and disdain. I remember that we also had a thread about not wanting Hero here.

I will legit be sad if Doom Slayer isn't in.
My theory is that Nintendo hadn't finalized the Fighter's Pass, since it was confirmed that they finished "characters 2 and 3" before starting on 4.
It seems odd to me that the two characters that always seem to get leaked are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.
Google Theory had predicted those two along with Banjo, which would be an insane coincidence. But they may have been pushed aside as later DLC to avoid leaks.
The old 5chan leak also predicted this lineup but with Steve instead of Banjo. Odd since they are both Microsoft characters, plus Vergeben had seemed so sure that Minecraft content was coming to Smash early on.
These facts just seem too convenient to all be coincidence.
This could be Gematsu 2.0, where that Smash 4 leak seemed to be disproven, but when Sakurai came out and said that Chrom was initially chosen over Robin, that old leak seems to have been true but based on outdated information.

Or they could possibly be the remains from a previous leak that people just like a lot to keep making fake leaks because the characters make sense for a lot of people, and remember that those leaks had faulty info on Hero as well as not considering Terry.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hero wasn't a main topic of discussion?
Though we recognized him as Erdrick (the Western name for DQ3 Hero), Hero was the worst kept secret in the world.

If you only talk about a character after they outright got leaked then no, they weren't a main topic of discussion

 

[WarriorWho85]

I

I will legit be sad if Doom Slayer isn't in.
My theory is that Nintendo hadn't finalized the Fighter's Pass, since it was confirmed that they finished "characters 2 and 3" before starting on 4.
It seems odd to me that the two characters that always seem to get leaked are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.
Google Theory had predicted those two along with Banjo, which would be an insane coincidence. But they may have been pushed aside as later DLC to avoid leaks.
The old 5chan leak also predicted this lineup but with Steve instead of Banjo. Odd since they are both Microsoft characters, plus Vergeben had seemed so sure that Minecraft content was coming to Smash early on.
These facts just seem too convenient to all be coincidence.
This could be Gematsu 2.0, where that Smash 4 leak seemed to be disproven, but when Sakurai came out and said that Chrom was initially chosen over Robin, that old leak seems to have been true but based on outdated information.

Well these characters must be planned months and months in advance as we know. Thus it makes sense that Sakurai could have been planning Doomguy or some time before a id delayed Eternal. I doubt they were in constant communication. It's hardly impossible that the Smash team is playing catch-up as badly as we are.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hey Lesley. I know Verge deconfirmed Doomguy for FP5, but IIRC it was after Eternal's delay and the Mii "Leak". Were Doomguy originally slotted for FP5, it would explain the seeming confusion among leakers over FP5 and how ready the Mii hats look. I expect to see word of him before March.

PS I'm also rooting for a woman as a fighter.

Salamat, po.

For a split second I thought you were Megadoomer lol

The reason the confusion lies with Fighter Pack 5 is just because we're not close enough to the release. Once plans are starting to get made and prepped is when we will start getting hints and leaks of who Pack 5 is.

I don't think the delay of Doom Eternal would affect his chances for FP5 or as a future DLC in any way. Wherever he is slated in the DLC is probably where he was always meant to show up.

 

[WarriorWho85]

I do somewhat concur. However, much of the evidence supporting Doomguy hinges on the heavy Switch releases. It would defeat the purpose of promotion if the Fighter came 5 months before the game he'd promote. Could have been contracual.

Again, my speculation hinges on if the Mii "Leak" is real. Something I doubt.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The problem I personally have with Dark Souls is that if it IS the Chosen Undead, how would they even play? Dark Souls is known for the slow methodical gameplay, which really doesn't translate to Smash. Sakurai is a stickler for detail (especially for 3rd party characters) and he would pretty much try to make DS character as close to the actual game as possible.

So most likely you'd have a:
1. Sword character that also has a shield.
2. The character can also use magic. Can also heal himself using Estus Flask.
3. Probably has really simple moves, just due to the nature of DS not being combo heavy.
4. The character emphasizes dodging, and rewards playing it safe. (Probably hit and run, but I can't see the character being fast).

Hero already does 2 of these 4 things, and I can't see dodging being an interesting mechanic. Sakurai could definitely make the character work, but I don't think it could be done without some serious deviation from the actual DS series. Obviously they could add a DS boss as a playable character, but I doubt Sakurai would do that. Even if he does, it would probably still have a ridiculously limited moveset.

In my opinion it's the exact same problem with a Monster Hunter rep, but I'd say MH this pass is unlikely due to the fact that we already have Rathalos in game. And I say this as someone who's probably spent a couple thousand hours in both series.

Lloyd/Yuri would at least bring in a pretty easy mechanic in overlimit. And the faster pace of an ARPG like Tales carries over far better than an ARPG like Dark Souls/Monster Hunter.

KOS-MOS would be pretty cool just due to the amount of weaponry/range she has; but again, I'd say she's more unlikely than Tales.

Just skimmed back a few pages and saw this, Dark Souls combat is more about baiting and punishing but because players are often given a shield at the start of the game, they assume they need it. Compare someone's first time playing Dark Souls to someone who played Bloodborne, which had the shield as a joke weapon, first and you can see it's like day and night. I've yet to buy the trilogy myself so I can't speak much on the other points you make

 

[PsychoJosh]

Just skimmed back a few pages and saw this, Dark Souls combat is more about baiting and punishing but because players are often given a shield at the start of the game, they assume they need it. Compare someone's first time playing Dark Souls to someone who played Bloodborne, which had the shield as a joke weapon, first and you can see it's like day and night. I've yet to buy the trilogy myself so I can't speak much on the other points you make

Doesn't sound like a very fun Smash character.

I'll be honest, I don't think Dark Souls is ever coming to Smash except as a Mii costume or something.

 

[Droodle]

I will legit be sad if Doom Slayer isn't in.
My theory is that Nintendo hadn't finalized the Fighter's Pass, since it was confirmed that they finished "characters 2 and 3" before starting on 4.
It seems odd to me that the two characters that always seem to get leaked are Doom Slayer and Ryu Hayabusa.
Google Theory had predicted those two along with Banjo, which would be an insane coincidence. But they may have been pushed aside as later DLC to avoid leaks.
The old 5chan leak also predicted this lineup but with Steve instead of Banjo. Odd since they are both Microsoft characters, plus Vergeben had seemed so sure that Minecraft content was coming to Smash early on.
These facts just seem too convenient to all be coincidence.
This could be Gematsu 2.0, where that Smash 4 leak seemed to be disproven, but when Sakurai came out and said that Chrom was initially chosen over Robin, that old leak seems to have been true but based on outdated information.

I will say that ever since Castlevania for Smash was revealed, people have been saying that Ryu Hayabusa will get in just to complete the classic NES icons in smash. People were guessing he may be base roster, and then that he will be DLC. That alone made him incredibly common in "leaks".

Banjo was Banjo, he was in dozens of leaks real or fake.

Google theory and the 5chan post were 100% fake, they don't just delay planned DLC to avoid leaks.

Adeleine leak was the one where Doomguy really started to be included in /v/ "leaks". Said leak got really popular, and is probably the reason why Doomguy is in so many leaks now.

So while you may think that Doomguy being in so many leaks indicates the possibilty he is actually coming, it really doesn't. Chances are the Adeleine leak got popular, and so /v/ decided to put Doomguy in a ton of leaks.

The only valid leak that Doomguy has going for him is the Mii costume leak, which may or may not be real. Insiders have pretty much ignored Doomguy, besides stating he is 100% not character 5.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Wrong.
View attachment 246576
There exists no such thing as a "wasted slot". Wasted resources? Perhaps, but every character is someone's main.
There is no limit to how many characters can be added. If Nintendo so chose, they could have a roster as big as Pokémon, and I don't just mean the half-assed Sword and Shield.

A roster as big as Pokemon would take a century to develop, and most franchises don't have that time.

Your picture's entirely full of evergreen candidates, at any rate. No matter how many Smash games into the future we go, they're always going to have a comfortable bedrock of possibility to lean back on for every future speculation period. Compared to them, Byleth and Melmetal only have so much time to stick around the discourse.

Ultimate DLC, on the other hand, is the only chance that 99% of all third-parties have of making it into Smash Bros. There's no veterans to prioritize, the biggest icons are already in, and Nintendo is being extremely generous.

To spend slots on characters who are always going to have a good chance (like your first parties) instead of those who will never have this chance again (because they'll be struggling to get Cloud and Pac-man back next time) is the textbook definition of a wasted opportunity. That's why it's mostly Three Houses, Astral Chain, and Sword/Shield who enter the conversation from the first-party side anymore - they don't have any guarantee that they'll still be likely newcomers in the future, especially if/when a newer game supplants them.

 

[osby]

I'm not going into" who deserves to be in" argument because that's super subjective, but... Let's be honest. People were expecting Smash 4 DLC to fill in the "gaps" in the roster. Isaac, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee... characters that people thought was missing from their perfect roster.

We all know how that turned out.

I'm not saying first-party fan favorites have no chance getting in, but I really wouldn't expect more than one. It's obvious that Nintendo and Sakurai have bigger priorities than realizing Brawl fan rosters and I get why.

There is no limit to how many characters can be added. If Nintendo so chose, they could have a roster as big as Pokémon, and I don't just mean the half-assed Sword and Shield.

You know actual humans work on this game, right?

Nintendo can't just pour money to make them work on DLC for indefinitely. They're going to move on sooner or later.

It's not a sustainable method in the long run, anyway.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Imagine thinking that Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, and SNK fans don't already own a Switch, considering it's the platform that panders to them the most.

Then imagine also thinking that Persona fans will buy a Switch when they won't get any content for that franchise outside the occasional spin-off.

I don't blame you if you can't, that takes a lot of imagination.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

You know actual humans work on this game, right?

Nintendo can't just pour money to make them work on DLC for indefinitely. They're going to move on sooner or later.

It's not a sustainable method in the long run, anyway.

Nintendo isn't just pouring money into it. We are paying for the DLC and I'm pretty sure that Nintendo would still make a profit even with a 5th or 6th fighter pass. They don't even need their main team to work on the DLC and just outsource it.

Prolly wouldn't make the game better. Balance and quality would probably take a hit but it is definitely a feasible strategy business wise. Nintendo could monetize the heck out of this game.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I'm not going into" who deserves to be in" argument because that's super subjective, but... Let's be honest. People were expecting Smash 4 DLC to fill in the "gaps" in the roster. Isaac, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee... characters that people thought was missing from their perfect roster.

If all they were going to add is tertiary C-listers who aren't even main protagonists in their own right then that perfect roster will never be complete.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not going into" who deserves to be in" argument because that's super subjective, but... Let's be honest. People were expecting Smash 4 DLC to fill in the "gaps" in the roster. Isaac, Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee... characters that people thought was missing from their perfect roster.

We all know how that turned out.

I'm not saying first-party fan favorites have no chance getting in, but I really wouldn't expect more than one. It's obvious that Nintendo and Sakurai have bigger priorities than realizing Brawl fan rosters and I get why.



You know actual humans work on this game, right?

Nintendo can't just pour money to make them work on DLC for indefinitely. They're going to move on sooner or later.

It's not a sustainable method in the long run, anyway.

Yeah but game developers are robots according to CEOs so...

 

[Calamitas]

Imagine thinking that Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, and SNK fans don't already own a Switch, considering it's the platform that panders to them the most.

Then imagine also thinking that Persona fans will buy a Switch when they won't get any content for that franchise outside the occasional spin-off.

I don't blame you if you can't, that takes a lot of imagination.

But Smash needs to attract new audiences! It needs to be the one game that makes everyone under the sun purchase a Switch, especially if they don't otherwise enjoy games like Smash! That's why all kinds of mobile game reps are 100% coming, because we gotta have those audiences buy Smash!

 

[osby]

Nintendo isn't just pouring money into it. We are paying for the DLC and I'm pretty sure that Nintendo would still make a profit even with a 5th or 6th fighter pass. They don't even need their main team to work on the DLC and just outsource it.

They are already outsourcing it. Sora and Bandai-Namco makes the game. Doesn't mean they can just keep replacing people at key positions and maintain the quality of the product, especially Sakurai.

Also, I'm not saying DLC doesn't make money now. It does. But 6th pass? You're talking about paying more than twice the base game's price. Not many people are going to be down with such an investment.

I'm sure we'll get new characters for a long time but some people are under the impression that we really can get to a hundred characters and even more. They're going to be disappointed.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Imagine thinking that Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie, and SNK fans don't already own a Switch, considering it's the platform that panders to them the most.

I mean, some BK fans are probably pretty poor. Considering their poor life decisions.

 

[WeirdSandwich]

Doesn't sound like a very fun Smash character.

I'll be honest, I don't think Dark Souls is ever coming to Smash except as a Mii costume or something.

A slow, bait and punish sword user could be done fairly easily and still be fun. It's not that far off from what Ike is already. Just replace his specials with Dark Souls magic equivalents.

Having said that, even though I'm a Dark Souls fan I don't really want it represented as a playable character. Having a boss fight like MH does would be better.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

They are already outsourcing it. Sora and Bandai-Namco makes the game. Doesn't mean they can just keep replacing people at key positions and maintain the quality of the product, especially Sakurai.

Also, I'm not saying DLC doesn't make money now. It does. But 6th pass? You're talking about paying more than twice the base game's price. Not many people are going to be down with such an investment.

I'm sure we'll get new characters for a long time but some people are under the impression that we really can get to a hundred characters and even more. They're going to be disappointed.

With outsourcing I meant that a smaller studio takes over the job of producing DLC, not Sora and Bandai-Namco, who made the game. Worded that poorly so excuse me.

The potential 6th pass will, of course, not come out instantly. Consumers are willing to spend a lot of money on games over a longer period of time and 25 dollars every other year or so isn't that much for many people. A lot of games have already done this successfully. You just have to spread the most wanted choices over multiple passes and voilá, the hype sells the product. It just has to make a profit so it doesn even matter if the sales number diminish over time because, in comparison to the whole game, making 5 DLC characters doesn't cost much, depending on the effort of course. Take into account that the Switch is still selling like hot cakes and Smash is still one of the top sellers and you have a pretty big customer base.

Now don't get me wrong. This is not a move I expect from Nintendo. I was surprised to even see a second fighter pass. I'm just arguing that it would still be financially feasible to further support the game many years down the line.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey Lesley. I know Verge deconfirmed Doomguy for FP5, but IIRC it was after Eternal's delay and the Mii "Leak". Were Doomguy originally slotted for FP5, it would explain the seeming confusion among leakers over FP5 and how ready the Mii hats look. I expect to see word of him before March.

PS I'm also rooting for a woman as a fighter.

Salamat, po.

Most likely, he will be the first post Pass character, if I assume. I mean, he could set the stage for Season 2.

Also, thank you for that line. Tbh the suspense is killing me and I just want a female FP5 so bad...

Salamt din sa iyo. Sana mabiyayaan ka rin.

 

[AEMehr]

My theory is that Nintendo hadn't finalized the Fighter's Pass, since it was confirmed that they finished "characters 2 and 3" before starting on 4.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

We were literally told the day they announced the fighters pass that they made their decision already.

 

[Deleted member]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

We were literally told the day they announced the fighters pass that they made their decision already.

To be fair, his theory stated that they changed the orders of Hayabusa and Doomguy following the leaks. Which is why when everyone and their nanay were leaking about, all eyes were on those two. Probably has viability, though it seems **** can get wild.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

I will say that ever since Castlevania for Smash was revealed, people have been saying that Ryu Hayabusa will get in just to complete the classic NES icons in smash. People were guessing he may be base roster, and then that he will be DLC. That alone made him incredibly common in "leaks".

Banjo was Banjo, he was in dozens of leaks real or fake.

Google theory and the 5chan post were 100% fake, they don't just delay planned DLC to avoid leaks.

Adeleine leak was the one where Doomguy really started to be included in /v/ "leaks". Said leak got really popular, and is probably the reason why Doomguy is in so many leaks now.

So while you may think that Doomguy being in so many leaks indicates the possibilty he is actually coming, it really doesn't. Chances are the Adeleine leak got popular, and so /v/ decided to put Doomguy in a ton of leaks.

The only valid leak that Doomguy has going for him is the Mii costume leak, which may or may not be real. Insiders have pretty much ignored Doomguy, besides stating he is 100% not character 5.

WHAT?!?
Is there really an Adeleine leak and I know nothing?
When did this happen? I never heared of that, last time Adeleine got relevant in speculation and "leaks" was when people found out of the missing spirits and that lasted a few days until the "spirit don't deconfirm characters" theory started to spread, as far as I know...

 

[Momotsuki]

By the logic of a lot of people here, I could just go make a fake "leak" of whoever I don't want to be in the game and in doing that, their chances would then drop to zero.

 

[Shroob]

By the logic of a lot of people here, I could just go make a fake "leak" of whoever I don't want to be in the game and in doing that, their chances would then drop to zero.

Depends on what you mean.

If it's because of what Vergeben said, well, there's a damn good reason to take what he says highly. Sure, not 100%, but 95% is close enough.

 

[PSIGuy]

WHAT?!?
Is there really an Adeleine leak and I know nothing?
When did this happen? I never heared of that, last time Adeleine got relevant in speculation and "leaks" was when people found out of the missing spirits and that lasted a few days until the "spirit don't deconfirm characters" theory started to spread, as far as I know...

The "Adeleine Leak" didn't include Adeleine in it. It's called that because the person who posted the "leak" asked for Adeleine and Sylux in spoilers, and their wishlist consisted of Banjo Kazooie and the exact Hero alts that got in with two others.

 

[PsychoJosh]

A slow, bait and punish sword user could be done fairly easily and still be fun. It's not that far off from what Ike is already. Just replace his specials with Dark Souls magic equivalents.

You're not really doing a good job of selling me on this character. I hate Ike.

 

[Inoj]

I like Ike.

 

[M@R!3]

They really shot themselves in the foot by doing that. People will come to expect that is the Smash norm.

I think the only way people would accept roster cuts is if there's a major gameplay innovation. Something on the level of air dodges and side specials in Melee. Or just make Nintendo vs Capcom instead.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I think the only way people would accept roster cuts is if there's a major gameplay innovation. Something on the level of air dodges and side specials in Melee. Or just make Nintendo vs Capcom instead.

I would like that too. Smash is in desperate need of an overhaul.

Just to name a few things:
-Update the N64 and Melee vets to finally have non-obsolete movesets and brand new techniques
-Add new mechanics like EX specials (enhanced versions of special moves that you can access via a special meter, ala Street Fighter) and underwater combat
-A variety of brand new modes based on the various IP such as Warioware Mode, Platform Race Mode, Control Point/KOTH Mode, Player vs. Enemy, and a Super Smash Volleyball mode

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Player vs. Enemy...

Like a raid boss or like...Super Smash Bros.?

 

[Plank08]

For the sake of Argument, let's say that Sony does lend a character to Smash (if only to make sure Microsoft doesn't get one over on it) who would it be?

Here in the west we tend to think of Kratos as Sony's Mascot but in the Japan the mascot is Toro Inue, a cartoon cat.

Of their other characters, that have appeal to both sides of the pond I'd say he best picks would be either Ratchet and Clank or Kat and Dusty from Gravity Rush.

Just add Sackboy, everyone’s happy.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Like a raid boss or like...Super Smash Bros.?

Player vs. Enemy is a cooperative mode like Left 4 Dead or Mann vs. Machine in Team Fortress 2.

It's you, and maybe some friends, vs. huge hordes of enemies and you have to survive each wave. You get powerups (in this case, moveset upgrades) between waves and have to survive against a relentless onslaught.

 

[Plank08]

Don't fail her like PS Allstars did.



One more from the Playstation 3 generation.

Im sorry for constantly bringing him up but if we talking PS3 generation Sackboys a must(Kat would be neat tho, but after Sackboy please)

Also I really feel that Heihachi and Lloyd aren’t happening, at least not in this pass, hear me out, sakurais always tried to go for something different every time with this pass, people love to point at joker and Hero both being jrpg character but not only are those rpgs very different games, but Joker and Hero could not be more different. Meanwhile Heihachi would only be unique with FG mechanics, or Tekken mechanics, similar to Terry and SNK mechanics, and Lloyd is very similar to hero, and I’m pretty sure his voice actor was doing another project.
Basically what I’m saying is dark souls time

 

[Deleted member]

I like Ike.

I like IKEA.