Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[3BitSaurus]

Still, I'm still standing by my opinion that Nintendo has the upper hand here. The fact that Tencent wants to learn how to develop console games from Nintendo's own engineers only solidifies my stance - it's Nintendo who have most of the cards and stand to possibly gain the most.

What makes me curious is: what do they have to gain? Because at the end of the day, a hypothetical Smash character would arguably still benefit Tencent.

So just what is it that Nintendo has to gain to let Tencent learn console development directly from them? I'm starting to think that gaining entry into the chinese market may only be part of the equation...

 

[Freaky Mutant Man]

Wait, so Doom Slayer is officially dead now?

Not dead, but there's enough doubt cast on Mii hat leak with modders being able to get fairly close to it and leakers confirming it has nothing to do with FP5 that a lot of people seem to be dismissing it. He could be post-Pass DLC, but if he is it seems no one has heard anything yet.

 

[yeet123]

Wait, so Doom Slayer is officially dead now?

Sabi's source said that the "leaked" mii costumes are most likely fake, and on the off chance that they are real then they are not affiliated with Fighter #5.

So Doom Slayer for #5 seems very unlikely

Talking about the General Public with this question, not us on this message board or Reddit: Are there any characters that they could reveal that would make the general gaming population go "Ohhh ****!" Like we had with Sonic, Snake, to a lesser extent, Ridley? I think only a small portion of the gaming fandom would flip out over Doomguy. Maybe Master Chief? I'm just curious, was thinking how crazy it is that we have most of the huge names in the game already (again, big names in the general public).

Banjo was a real big deal.

Regardless, Chief, Sora, Lara Croft, Kratos, Ezio, Dark Souls, Elder Scrolls, etc. We got some juicy picks out there rn

 

[Gamma Ray]

It's a shame, because I absolutely adore X's and Chronicle 2's OST (haven't played either game yet, but I'm interested). Not sure about Ultimate's DLC, but I don't get the impression Xenoblade will be ignored - far from it.

I really hope that's the case. A Xenoblade bundle of Elma, Rex + Mythra/Pyra and a good collection of soundtracks from both games would be the dream, but I imagine that's asking for too much lol.

 

[Momotsuki]

The thing about Reimu being fighter five is that I have nothing to back it up. It's just my gut. Which essentially makes my ramblings worthless, but that's fine.

 

[Deleted member]

Good morning everyone.

I see that everyone'e tossing the hat for FP5. Everyone's gambling on the Bamco rep, and I'm just as willing to bet.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I only think we’ll get 5-10 more characters, but I bet they come from this pool of characters. I’m still personally believing the Mii leak until someone admits they did it.

 

[SKX31]

Talking about the General Public with this question, not us on this message board or Reddit: Are there any characters that they could reveal that would make the general gaming population go "Ohhh ****!" Like we had with Sonic, Snake, to a lesser extent, Ridley? I think only a small portion of the gaming fandom would flip out over Doomguy. Maybe Master Chief? I'm just curious, was thinking how crazy it is that we have most of the huge names in the game already (again, big names in the general public).

Lets see. I'm counting general public, your Average Joes and Janes:

Master Chief
Steve
Jonesy (along with a lot of hate too)
Resident Evil
Heihachi is a borderline, but I think could be it.
MOBA character, especially LoL
Kratos
Lara Croft
EDIT: Forgot about Gordon Freeman. Crud. That would shatter Half Life 3 memes period.

Those are the ones I'd probably see as "WTF, they're in the same game as Mario?" amongst the general public.

What makes me curious is: what do they have to gain? Because at the end of the day, a hypothetical Smash character would arguably still benefit Tencent.

So just what is it that Nintendo has to gain to let Tencent learn console development directly from them? I'm starting to think that gaining entry into the chinese market may only be part of the equation...

Outside of entry into a potentially money-printing (if not absurdly difficult to get into) country there's the connections to companies like Epic and Blizzard. Both have ported their games to the Switch already. Furukawa's also mentioned the mobile side of things, and the WSJ article mentioned this tidbit:

Nonetheless, Nintendo sees some potential to expand its audience. Outside developers said they were asked by Nintendo to make games for young women, such as romance games, a genre with passionate fans including in China.

“Women are becoming a driving force behind the growth of the gaming market,” said Daniel Ahmad, an analyst at Niko Partners, an Asia-focused games analytics company. “Chinese developers are not only shifting to create games aimed at female players, they are also tailoring existing games to better appeal to them.”

Expanding Nintendo's audience has been a core goal of Furukawa's, And if Nintendo manages to get into China, they can also potentially get into other really tough countries.

 

[Deleted member]

I only think we’ll get 5-10 more characters, but I bet they come from this pool of characters. I’m still personally believing the Mii leak until someone admits they did it.

View attachment 246183

That's...arguably the most reasonable pick of action.

 

[yeet123]

Ezio w/ Altair, Brotherhood, and Revelations alts would be fuegoooo (and a Connor alt because hes the best designed assassin in the series)

 

[Calamitas]

That ain't tragic.

Why would say something so controversial, yet to wrong?

Xenoblade in general was handled pretty poorly with the music choices, IMO.

Mhh. Let's not forget that the series still literally has only one single remix. I honestly hoped that they'd make a full remix of Engage the Enemy in the style that it's remixed in for the medley, but that's apparently never gonna happen.

As an Elma supporter, that's one of our talking points though. It's kinda a good thing we don't have music (yet?).

Yeah, true. Tbh it's kinda easy to forget that Elma still has several legitimately good points in her favour as DLC, when speculation as a whole seems to be yelling about a new third-party every five minutes.

 

[Jomosensual]

Accidentally dropped this in Rate Their Chances, but looks like Arle is dead

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/index.html


Translation is poor, but it's basically saying the creator of Puyo Puyo doesn't want her in fighting games

 

[SpectreJordan]

I don’t think they’ll go for “average gamer mind blowing” at TGAs. We had Joker last year, it blew a lot of hardcore gamers’ minds but it’s not that well known among more casual gamers.

I think there’s a high chance it’ll be Lloyd or another Tales character. It seems like Namco wants Tales to become bigger in the West. An Arise trailer followed by a Smash character would get a lot of attention.

 

[Deleted member]

Accidentally dropped this in Rate Their Chances, but looks like Arle is dead

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/index.html


Translation is poor, but it's basically saying the creator of Puyo Puyo doesn't want her in fighting games

OUCH...

 

[SNEKeater]

I'd rather having Doomslayer than Dovakhiin, honestly. Maybe it's because I'm not really a fan of rpgs like Elder Scrolls. While Skyrim was without discussion a major hit, If we follow that argument I don't think Dovakhiin has more chances than Doomslayer, who has more legacy and would bring a almost unexplored genre in Smash.
To clarify I'm not really a Doom supporter, in fact I've barely played the franchise, but I find Doomslayer as a more interesting option in some aspects. Besides, it would be cool to have a FPS character in the roster. Samus obviously doesn't count.

This is my opinion, of course.

 

[yeet123]

Lloyd would be an incredibly dull pick to end the DLC season.

"In my opinion" i guess. lol

 

[3BitSaurus]

Accidentally dropped this in Rate Their Chances, but looks like Arle is dead

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/index.html


Translation is poor, but it's basically saying the creator of Puyo Puyo doesn't want her in fighting games

It's an old interview, looking at the date, but still... I can only hope that these opinions have changed in the two years since then.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

so now the following aren't FP5:
- Geno
- Doom Slayer
- Crash Bandicoot
- Tracer
- Scorpion
- Ryu Hayabusa
- Arle Nadja
- someone from Atlus, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK

damn it's like Namco's chances keep rising by this process of elimination

 

[Nemuresu]

Yeah, true. Tbh it's kinda easy to forget that Elma still has several legitimately good points in her favour as DLC, when speculation as a whole seems to be yelling about a new third-party every five minutes.

Elma has a lot to offer for a DLC pack, but the thing is, she's still a spirit.

I know a lot of folks here love to say that doesn't mean jack, but you gotta remember that the only way to actually know if they're fair game is if one of them actually pops up as DLC later on, which isn't exactly that easy to expect, much less when you consider that statements about Nintendo's approach to this DLC have only been playing in favour of brand-new guest characters each time.

She's not impossible, just not easy to see coming.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Elma has a lot to offer for a DLC pack, but the thing is, she's still a spirit.

I know a lot of folks here love to say that doesn't mean jack, but you gotta remember that the only way to actually know if they're fair game is if one of them actually pops up as DLC later on, which isn't exactly that easy to expect, much less when you consider that statements about Nintendo's approach to this DLC have only been playing in favour of brand-new guest characters each time.

She's not impossible, just not easy to see coming.

there's always post-pass at least, and she doesn't have any other role (Mii Costume, AT)

 

[Lamperouge]

Accidentally dropped this in Rate Their Chances, but looks like Arle is dead

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/index.html


Translation is poor, but it's basically saying the creator of Puyo Puyo doesn't want her in fighting games

They'll warm up to the idea.

It took forever for Capcom to accept the idea of Monster Hunter being a fighter in anything until MvC:I, so maybe the creator of Puyo Pop will have a similar change of heart someday and start allowing their characters to appear in that genre.

 

[yeet123]

so now the following aren't FP5:
- Geno
- Doom Slayer
- Crash Bandicoot
- Tracer
- Scorpion
- Ryu Hayabusa
- Arle Nadja
- someone from Atlus, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK

damn it's like Namco's chances keep rising by this process of elimination

Praise the mootherfuc**n suuuuuuuuun

 

[Plank08]

Frankly, there are no video game characters left capable of dwarfing the hype of fighters such as Cloud in 2015, and Ridley in 2018. That's not a bad thing, though. Honestly, it doesn't matter much to me who a fighter is. Just seeing somebody new in Smash is always a good time.

Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot would like to know your location

Wait, so Doom Slayer is officially dead now?

For FP5, yeah, but he’s still in the running for the future

 

[Momotsuki]

There's absolutely nothing disproving the Mii leak. There's also nothing that cold-hard proves it and, speaking as an active Ultimate modder, definitely is possible to do with mods. It's pretty up in the air. That's why "maybe?" is probably the best response to it as of now.

 

[DarthEnderX]

THEORETICALLY Fighter 5 IS NOT
- Crash
- Hayabusa
- Doom Slayer
- Geno
- Scorpion
- A character affiliated w/ Sega/Atlus, Square, Micro/Rare, and SNK

SCIENTIFICALLY...it's Hayabusa.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Lloyd would be an incredibly dull pick to end the DLC season.

"In my opinion" i guess. lol

Yeah which is why we're getting Cristina Vee with her big ass demonic hand as a Tales rep instead

 

[Seanapotamus]

Alright so THEORETICALLY Fighter 5 IS NOT:

- Crash
- Hayabusa
- Doom Slayer
- Geno
- Scorpion
- A character affiliated w/ Sega/Atlus, Square, Micro/Rare, and SNK

Who are the biggest names that are contenders for FP5 atm?

I'll be sticking with my prediction of Fighters Pass character #5 being at The Game Awards. I personally doubt we'll get another Direct until January or February. Here's who I think are the top candidates currently:

• Resident Evil rep (Leon/Jill): Resident Evil is one of Capcom's biggest franchises without a rep. Besides, it would generate a lot of hype overall. In fact, there hasn't been a playable horror rep before.
• Chosen Undead (Dark Souls): Dark Souls is another popular franchise and it's from Bandai-Namco. A Dark Souls rep has been rumored since the Google Theory and the prospect of them being #5 has picked up steam a bit for the past day or two.
• Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia): Another Bandai-Namco character, he has been rumored for #5 ever since Scott Menville (his original English VA) tweeted about a voice-over project that he had to sign an NDA for, as well as the fact that there are two Tales series logos that have been recently trademarked by Bandai-Namco. Supposedly we're supposed to get news about Tales of Arise iirc. Heihachi's costume not being in the most recent Mii costume wave certainly helps the case of a Bandai-Namco character getting in.
• Dante (Devil May Cry): We recently had the first two DMC games released on e-Shop. Dante is another character to keep an eye on and would most certainly generate a ton of hype in a Western venue like The Game Awards.
• None of the above: A total curveball pick that almost nobody expects.

So my current verdict is that we'll most likely get a Capcom or a Namco character at our next fighter unless we get someone highly unexpected. But for now, it's still speculation and it'll be narrowed down if a major bombshell drops within this next month.

 

[Mango The Magician]

Can I just say that I don't get the logic in thinking Geno will be FP5. Geno isn't a new character, had they wanted to implement him they would have in the base game while in the thought process involved in making him a spirit or online icon. I don't think spirits deconfirm characters but if a spirit is gonna get in it'll be a character that they felt the need to return to and will most likely be after the fighters pass ends. I know this is kinda off topic but this has been bothering me a lot lately with people speculating that he could be FP5.

I mean it's still possible because anything can happen and there's no rules when it comes to smash characters, but I just don't understand the thought process as to why they would wait till the first DLC which started development right after the game finished to implement someone they could have implemented before. Anyone who ends up being FP5 will likely be highly requested characters that are nowhere in the base game or more likely someone no one is expecting.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Accidentally dropped this in Rate Their Chances, but looks like Arle is dead

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/index.html


Translation is poor, but it's basically saying the creator of Puyo Puyo doesn't want her in fighting games

That's rough, I'm not really a Puyo Puyo fan but I would have been fine with seeing Arle in. Here's hoping maybe they changed their minds.

Ridrool64 If not, my condolences mate.

 

[MooMew64]

Nah the Tales rep should be Yuri Lowell. Gotta rep best Tales game.

 

[Lamperouge]

Yeah which is why we're getting Cristina Vee with her big ass demonic hand as a Tales rep instead

CERO would have a field day with her design.

 

[Plank08]

I only think we’ll get 5-10 more characters, but I bet they come from this pool of characters. I’m still personally believing the Mii leak until someone admits they did it.

View attachment 246183

Yeah I definitely feel like the datamine is correct, so we are probably getting 10 characters after fighter pass which is exciting and will bring our roster to 92, and Sakurai said he doesn’t really want echoes, but maybe if he really wants to hit 100 characters he could just fill the empty space with echoes

 

[Deleted member]

CERO would have a field day with her design.

"SmAsH iS fOr GoOd BoYs AnD gIrLs."

so now the following aren't FP5:
- Geno
- Doom Slayer
- Crash Bandicoot
- Tracer
- Scorpion
- Ryu Hayabusa
- Arle Nadja
- someone from Atlus, Square-Enix, Microsoft or SNK

damn it's like Namco's chances keep rising by this process of elimination

Perhaps...but honestly Verge deconfirming all these charactets sounds kinda fishy to me.

 

[Nemuresu]

CERO would have a field day with her design.

Velvet probably never took a bath in all the time she spent in prison, so to the bad girls hut she goes.

 

[Momotsuki]

Geno definitely isn't F5. No way in hell. He's got a good shot at being post-FP DLC, though.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

Accidentally dropped this in Rate Their Chances, but looks like Arle is dead

https://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/index.html


Translation is poor, but it's basically saying the creator of Puyo Puyo doesn't want her in fighting games

I made these posts before explaining Arle's issues.

I guess I didn't word it correctly.
Apparently the spells in Madou Monogatari and Puyopuyo shares their names but latter cannot be used as magic to attack people directly while the former can. Something along this line is often brought up among Arle supporters in Japan.
And I think that was during Puyopuyo Quest livestream, Mizuki Hosoyamada mentioned that he tried to make Puyopuyo fighting game but the higher-ups stopped him. He didn't state why but people in smash community were saying since Brawl era that Arle needs Madou Monogatari rights to actually "attack" opponent in any form.
However I don't think this won't be that much of issue anymore if it's true or not. Smash already changed DQ's rules. Of course Sega wouldn't turn down when Sakurai walks up to them.

They are just rumors but heavily said whenever Arle for smash talks occur.

From what I can gather, it seems D4E has the right for MM's game system itself and Sega has the rights for Puyo's game system. I think the story of Arle can't use her magic to attack people is coming from here.
And on top of that, Puyo characters are not allowed to have any violence actions. "No hitting, no bashing". This was also the infamous rule known by fans but it did get confirmed by Hosoyamada himself saying that Puyopuyo fighting game was cancelled due to its violency and the higher-ups stopped him. This was 2017.
He was also saying that Puyo Quest's users are more than 50% women and widely spreaded from kids to seniors. Maybe this is a one of reason they don't want Puyo characters to fight in actual combat.
I think these stories surrounding Puyo got clearer around that time because Niitani himself was revealing a lot on TV shows. I remember seeing him explaining about Puyo's situation couple of times on TV.
When Compile asked Sega for a billion loan, Sega took only Puyo's rights as a guarantee. So they didn't buy it directly according to Niitani. Apparently Sega didn't fully own Puyo's rights until 2015. MM, on the other hand, since Sega didn't ask for it, the rights eventually passed to Aiki then to D4E.

I can't confirm these are 100% concrete but this kind of story is always popping up in Japanese smash community.

https://www.google.co.jp/amp/s/game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/1075/723/amp.index.html
https://ja.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ぷよぷよ
https://dic.nicovideo.jp/t/a/魔導物語
https://games.yahoo.co.jp/qa/detail?qid=12199147842

Remember, those rumors are old.
The demands for Arle really blew up when Sonic made into Smash in Brawl. The issues were talked since then.
But now, all the situations are certainly have changed.
There is a theory says that only newly designed Arle is the one cannot fight directly in combat but old MM based design Arle can.
Arle is written only "Arle" in Sega made Puyos (after Fever). But in Compile Puyos even they are published by Sega, her name is written "Arle Nadja" (in remakes too). So they are clearly differentiating the two.
If they are recognizing and treating "Arle" and "Arle Nadja" as the different chracters, may be that rule "no hitting" only applies to Sega Arle.
So if Sakurai manage to pull out "Arle Nadja" from old Puyos which are now fully owned by Sega, they might be able to dodge that rule.

 

[andree123]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yellow - Banjo
Blue - Terry
Red - Joker

Since there is another white, I can't see Hero's color or the color of FP5 but this remains a mystery, other than just a "hint" on Travis potentially being in the fighters pass.

 

[Lamperouge]

Wait, that Puyo article was from three years ago...

Not saying it did happen or not, but maybe the creator changed his opinion on it during those few years.

 

[Momotsuki]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Yellow - Banjo
Blue - Terry
Red - Joker

Since there is another white, I can't see Hero's color or the color of FP5 but this remains a mystery, other than just a "hint" on Travis potentially being in the fighters pass.

Yeah, everyone knows Sakurai doesn't talk to people whose characters aren't slated for Smash. Friends? No such thing, just Smash-related negotiators.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I made these posts before explaining Arle's issues.

So basically... Puyo Puyo is for good boys and girls?

Couldn't resist, sorry lol.