Newbie Mafia 8 | Game Over! Town Wins!

[DanGR]

@ICs

Is there anything I can do to fix my grammar in previous posts? I butchered that last post.

 

[-Vocal-]

I doubt he meant "Mafia members shouldn't lie about their role".
If they didn't, we wouldn't be able to play this game.

He likely meant the townies shouldn't claim their role immediately because the mafia likes to target cops & doctors.

I suppose, but you never know, he COULD be up to something...

A bit defensive are we? A simple "no" would have sufficed.
Your mirrored response is interesting.

And to answer your question, no, I am not mafia.

Who's defensive? In case you haven't noticed, all of my posts have gone above what would have sufficed - I'm having fun with this, hee hee

And YOUR mirrored response is interesting. Oh wait no everyone says that XD

IGMEOY

 

[-Vocal-]

Seems to me like Annet wanted to post something large enough to qualify as a post out, but small enough to largely unnoticed. Time will tell.

Playing the sleeper cell, hmm? Slick mafia have won before, but this town isn't so naive. Watch out mafia - we're gonna poke you with our pitchforks and burn you with our torches ^_^

 

[Noa.]

I forgot that someone else was playing.

And you really want people to roleclaim don't ya Vocal.

Also Xiivi I'm not scum cause my avatar is Brock.

 

[-Vocal-]

I forgot that someone else was playing.

And you really want people to roleclaim don't ya Vocal.

Also Xiivi I'm not scum cause my avatar is Brock.

Watch how Brock acts towards Nurse Joy, THEN look me in the eye and tell me he isn't scum >=)

And no, I was just wondering why it wasn't an option in this game when I'd seen it in another.

And I forgot about him too lol, we can't let this guy really go under the radar.

Somebody please replace the guy in this picture with Olimar; I will love you long time

 

[-Vocal-]

Dangit, wrong URL and I can't edit :/

Here's the photo:

 

[Xiivi]

1. My vote was not RVS. But if it had been, I would still unvote: vote: Draconoa44 at this point fully serious.

2. EBWOP: Edit By Way Of Post. Because actual editing of posts in mafia games is forbidden on MafiaScum, the only way to "edit" a post which contains an error is to make another post containing the correction.

 

[-Vocal-]

Wow Xiivi, sniped.

Confirm

When do we start voting?

I'm guessing that this is what you're talking about, and I have to say that's actually a pretty convincing scum tell. So anxious to vote without even discussing?

Unvote: Xiivi

And there's a revote coming up pretty soon unless Draco can convince me otherwise.

 

[-Vocal-]

New thought: finding that new mafia is gonna be hard if Draco's mafia and we've discovered it this soon. Cop, here's looking at you, because you're going to be pretty essential.

 

[Xiivi]

I think that's more of a newbie tell you pointed out actually. It's easy for a newbie to be exciting to play and get to vote.

I'd also like -Annet211- to take a stab at guessing my reasoning before anyone else does. I don't have a read on him yet and I would like one. I'll elaborate afterwords.

 

[Noa.]

1. My vote was not RVS. But if it had been, I would still unvote: vote: Draconoa44 at this point fully serious.

2. EBWOP: Edit By Way Of Post. Because actual editing of posts in mafia games is forbidden on MafiaScum, the only way to "edit" a post which contains an error is to make another post containing the correction.

Wait have you unvoted me yet or not?

And it wasn't a random vote? I'd like to know why.

 

[-Vocal-]

I think that's more of a newbie tell you pointed out actually. It's easy for a newbie to be exciting to play and get to vote.

I'd also like -Annet211- to take a stab at guessing my reasoning before anyone else does. I don't have a read on him yet and I would like one. I'll elaborate afterwords.

Eye liek da weigh yu theenk

And yea, I'm not sure if you unvoted either

 

[Steel]

Vocal, you're being pretty aggressive. :O

Vote: -Vocal-

Do you think aggressive play styles are scummy, Dan?

Hmm. I actually hadn't paid close attention to those rules since I already read the gist of them in a dif game, but one sticks out: why do you recommend that people do not lie about roles? In the game I read through, a mafiate claimed to be the cop; while this blew up in his face the same day () it still seems like a valid strategy. Not that I WANT our mafia to do it, I'm just wondering why they couldn't. Just tryna play a fair game is all, don't take this as suspicious behavior ^_^

Don't lie about your role. Mafia have to lie to win the game, but if you are town you would be smart not to lie about your role, especially in an open set up (everyone knows the setup) such as this game.

Eye liek da weigh yu theenk

And yea, I'm not sure if you unvoted either

Vocal do you know why Xiivi is suspicious of Draco? You seem to be buddying xiivi very early in the game so far, first with saying he "sniped" draco for reasoning you aren't even aware of and unvoting him and saying you were about to join his vote unless draco could "convince you otherwise."
I think I know why Xiivi is pressuring draco so quickly, but before anyone explains it I'd like to know if you do. Because it seems to me you're latching onto xiivi early on and not really giving his actions any second thought, so I'm questioning your motives.

 

[Xiivi]

My vote is firmly placed on Draconoa44. The unvoting and revoting was an attention grabber. And as I said, I'll explain my case after -Annet211- says his take on my vote much like how -Vocal- did. Consider it homework I've assigned for him and will be grading him on shortly afterwords [consider that a bad metaphor]. DanGR, Steel hasn't really gotten into this game. It's easy for an IC to give general advice, and while it is helpful for new players it doesn't relate directly to the game. You should give Steel homework. CloverLeaf whatever your plan was was bad. This is a basic and open mafia set-up. There is not any game-breaking strategy for this set-up (or most set-ups for that matter). The best thing to do is to always have your vote placed on whoever you believe is mostly likely to be scum with exception of MYLO/LYLO situations. Playing the game means arguing with others, getting reads on others, and then convincing others to agree with you.

 

[Xiivi]

Oh look, Steel appeared. DanGR still give him homework.

Draconoa44 do you agree with how Steel used italics in his post?

 

[Noa.]

Reviewing the thread.

So far I posted my confirmation post, in which I said I was eager to vote. When I said vote I was mostly talking about just playing. I've never played mafia before and I can be pretty impatient sometimes lol.

After that I complain about Clover being late. Again my impatience.

Then I do my random vote on Clover for being late. To tell the truth right now as I was looking back I actually saw that Steel voted. I didn't see that. I only read the tips and then Vocal's post. He voted for Clover too. I guess you could see that as me bandwagoning him? Idk but this is only just random voting.

Then you accused me.

I guess the bandwagon thing is what you're trying to pin on me. And I wasn't really bandwagoning lol.

 

[Noa.]

Oh and how Steel used italics.

Ummm, since he's kinda experienced he would know why you think I'm scum. Since I've made relatively few posts he probably knows what you're trying to get at.

 

[-Vocal-]

Don't lie about your role. Mafia have to lie to win the game, but if you are town you would be smart not to lie about your role, especially in an open set up (everyone knows the setup) such as this game.

That makes much more sense to me; thanks for clearing it up

Vocal do you know why Xiivi is suspicious of Draco? You seem to be buddying xiivi very early in the game so far, first with saying he "sniped" draco for reasoning you aren't even aware of and unvoting him and saying you were about to join his vote unless draco could "convince you otherwise."
I think I know why Xiivi is pressuring draco so quickly, but before anyone explains it I'd like to know if you do. Because it seems to me you're latching onto xiivi early on and not really giving his actions any second thought, so I'm questioning your motives.

To begin, I was saying I liked Xiivi's idea about waiting for Annett to post his (her?) thoughts; I hadn't even been paying attention to him

Next, he's the only one who's insinuated that he had a real reason for voting so far. I try to figure things out (like a puzzle), so when he said he had a reason for voting Draco I decided to look through Draco's posts. That part I highlighted stuck out more than anything else to me, so I figured that was his reasoning; I guess I was wrong with it however ^_^ I suppose that in reality, since my guess was wrong I don't really know why Xiivi is pressuring Draco.

That said, the other reason I decided to temporarily side with Xiivi was simple because he was the only one applying pressure. Pressure causes people to respond, and responses can help to determine whether someone is foe or friend, mafia or town, scum or no-scum. It's all about feeling people out

Not that I'm going to be adding much pressure to Draco now that I've explained my intentions

 

[-Vocal-]

I only read the tips and then Vocal's post. He voted for Clover too.

I didn't vote for Clover; I jokingly said he was scum to elicit a reaction. Surely you didn't think you saw a bolded vote in my post, eh?

 

[Noa.]

When I said he it was referring to Steel.

 

[-Vocal-]

When I said he it was referring to Steel.

Really? And I suppose when you said too you were talking about yourself then? Watch your phrasing, Draco, Mal-foy your own good

Spoiler

<3 terrible puns{/spoiler]

 

[-Vocal-]

Dangit.

Spoiler

<3 terrible puns

 

[DanGR]

DanGR, Steel hasn't really gotten into this game. It's easy for an IC to give general advice, and while it is helpful for new players it doesn't relate directly to the game. You should give Steel homework.

I don't know what you mean by "homework."

Are you saying it's a good idea to question Steel about something right now? I've read a couple mafia games in the past and I haven't seen this terminology used before. ;/

Do you think aggressive play styles are scummy, Dan?

At certain times, yes. In general, no. Why do you ask?

 

[-Vocal-]

Hey Annet, your thoughts on the current situation would be greatly appreciated

The same to you Clover, you haven't said much either

 

[-Annet211-]

I think that's more of a newbie tell you pointed out actually. It's easy for a newbie to be exciting to play and get to vote.

I'd also like -Annet211- to take a stab at guessing my reasoning before anyone else does. I don't have a read on him yet and I would like one. I'll elaborate afterwords.

I don't quite know what to think at this point. You could be mafia, in which case you would probably want to target any random town, and just decided to go after Draconoa44 as a start. I think there is a very high possibility this is the case.
There is the case that you are town and you think Draconoa44 is mafia for some reason I don't know of yet. I don't think this is quite as probable, but I will take it into consideration.
Why you ignored Vocal's vote against you, I don't know. Like Vocal said, you could just be hoping no one notices it and it fades into the background.
Also, I am a girl (>.>) and you can just call me Annet.

Unvote: DanGR
Vote: Xiivi

 

[-Vocal-]

I don't quite know what to think at this point. You could be mafia, in which case you would probably want to target any random town, and just decided to go after Draconoa44 as a start. I think there is a very high possibility this is the case.
There is the case that you are town and you think Draconoa44 is mafia for some reason I don't know of yet. I don't think this is quite as probable, but I will take it into consideration.
Why you ignored Vocal's vote against you, I don't know. Like Vocal said, you could just be hoping no one notices it and it fades into the background.
Also, I am a girl (>.>) and you can just call me Annet.

Unvote: DanGR
Vote: Xiivi

Fascinating. What do you think about the rest of us?

 

[Xiivi]

Let's start.

Draco started off expressing his eagerness to vote pre-game. However once the game started, he didn't begin with a vote. Steel posts a set a "tips" and introduction into the game, which Draco has now claimed to read. After the votes start flying, Draco brings his own vote in. However his "Random Voting Stage" vote, lands on a player for the identical reason as Steel's vote. In addition Vocal had already said "Clover is scum" (implying the reason is that Clover confirmed last) in post #26. Essentially, Draco wouldn't put his neck out until there was a bit of establishment of both people voting and the joke reasoning against Clover. He was excited to use his vote before, but played it on the safe side. This is a simple disconnect and I read it as classic newbie timid scum.

Now let's fast forward to #56. Here I've already established that I will reveal my reasoning after a response from Annet. However, Draco attempts to refute my reasoning before I explain it. Vocal had already taken a guess at something that could be considered scummy from Draco. Draco ignores this, instead more preoccupied with me. He attempts to dismantle my case by guessing what my case is and making excuses. So he's attempting to discredit me before I've presented anything. In addition he's claiming to have read the majority of Steel's post and the post immediately after Steel's (Vocal's) and claims to have have missed a bolded vote in between that (which his directly mimiced in reasoning). I read this as scum feeling he's already been caught and getting preoccupied with making an excuse for a 'mistake' he's thought he's made.

#57 furthers my belief of this. Steel uses "think" in italics in his post, intentionally trying to see both in-the-know and clueless about my reasoning ["I could know, but I might be wrong..." type of deal]. Steel pretty much doesn't attempt to take a stance here on my thought process. However, Draco is quick to give Steel credit for being experienced (and therefore somehow able to read my thoughts). So that's why it gives off the impression of Draco being scum feeling he's been caught.

@DanGR: Giving someone 'homework' is essentially forcing them to do something (such as telling them to take a stance, or making them interact with another player) that brings them further into the game so they can't coast on the sidelines while others argue at each others throats. It also allows you to get a better read on them. Such as making them take a stance on something, and then if they take an awkward stance with shaky reasoning, you can judge them. There is no such thing as 'evidence' in this game bar night actions, which can't be depended on [otherwise the game would essentially be on cruise control and we wouldn't be actually playing]. So you need to interpret other player's intentions and decide if they are scummy intentions or townie intentions. Also mafia is built such that you have room for 'mislynches' so being wrong isn't something to be afraid of until an endgame situation where your vote is game determining. Being decisive early on and forcing scum to commit is highly beneficial for town.

@Annet: You are looking at things entirely backwards. You being your case against me with "You could be mafia." That is a useless statement. Anyone could be mafia: roles are randomly distributed in mafia games. In addition you seem to ignore the fact I said I had reasoning that I would present after you posted. Essentially you weaseled your way out of guessing my reasoning, which was the question at hand. Instead you went with "well he could be mafia" & "well he could be town with reasoning, but that's not that probable".

Highlight where Vocal's accusation that my avatar I've had for months makes me scum in a randomly generated game of mafia is credible and dire that I respond to. Any respond I would put out would be a response to a joke and most likely a jovial response itself. We have a deadline in which as the uninformed town we have to identify each other and agree with one another on who the informed mafia (who already have the answers of who is town and who is mafia) and lynch them. Wasting time joking is fun, but playing the game with a sense of urgency and killing scumbags is fun too. In addition, attempting to use the full deadline time can spell disaster. If everyone has their votes spread out and the deadline becomes close, then town must scramble. At this time scum has the most influence as people realize they have to lynch someone (our only way of killing scum) and scum can direct them towards a mislynch easier by getting them to go with a 'middleground' target. The faster town agrees with solid reasoning the harder it is for scum to take time to chat with each other and make a plan for misdirecting us.

In conclusion: let's kill Draco.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10934371&postcount=56

 

[Xiivi]

In addition: "6) All votes must be written in the format of "Vote: Player" Be sure to bold your vote."

Generally if you don't bold your vote, it won't be counted by the moderator. I would suggest doing so!

Also I'll apologize in advance for any gender pronouns I use wrong or names I misspell, which will happen cause I'm bad at that stuff. Also everyone remember this is a game and to not take anything personally! If I say your reasoning is bad it isn't an attack on you and I do realize you're all new; but there's no better way to improve than getting first hand experience and pressured!

 

[-Vocal-]

Let's start.

Draco started off expressing his eagerness to vote pre-game. However once the game started, he didn't begin with a vote. Steel posts a set a "tips" and introduction into the game, which Draco has now claimed to read. After the votes start flying, Draco brings his own vote in. However his "Random Voting Stage" vote, lands on a player for the identical reason as Steel's vote. In addition Vocal had already said "Clover is scum" (implying the reason is that Clover confirmed last) in post #26. Essentially, Draco wouldn't put his neck out until there was a bit of establishment of both people voting and the joke reasoning against Clover. He was excited to use his vote before, but played it on the safe side. This is a simple disconnect and I read it as classic newbie timid scum.

Now let's fast forward to #56. Here I've already established that I will reveal my reasoning after a response from Annet. However, Draco attempts to refute my reasoning before I explain it. Vocal had already taken a guess at something that could be considered scummy from Draco. Draco ignores this, instead more preoccupied with me. He attempts to dismantle my case by guessing what my case is and making excuses. So he's attempting to discredit me before I've presented anything. In addition he's claiming to have read the majority of Steel's post and the post immediately after Steel's (Vocal's) and claims to have have missed a bolded vote in between that (which his directly mimiced in reasoning). I read this as scum feeling he's already been caught and getting preoccupied with making an excuse for a 'mistake' he's thought he's made.

#57 furthers my belief of this. Steel uses "think" in italics in his post, intentionally trying to see both in-the-know and clueless about my reasoning ["I could know, but I might be wrong..." type of deal]. Steel pretty much doesn't attempt to take a stance here on my thought process. However, Draco is quick to give Steel credit for being experienced (and therefore somehow able to read my thoughts). So that's why it gives off the impression of Draco being scum feeling he's been caught.

@DanGR: Giving someone 'homework' is essentially forcing them to do something (such as telling them to take a stance, or making them interact with another player) that brings them further into the game so they can't coast on the sidelines while others argue at each others throats. It also allows you to get a better read on them. Such as making them take a stance on something, and then if they take an awkward stance with shaky reasoning, you can judge them. There is no such thing as 'evidence' in this game bar night actions, which can't be depended on [otherwise the game would essentially be on cruise control and we wouldn't be actually playing]. So you need to interpret other player's intentions and decide if they are scummy intentions or townie intentions. Also mafia is built such that you have room for 'mislynches' so being wrong isn't something to be afraid of until an endgame situation where your vote is game determining. Being decisive early on and forcing scum to commit is highly beneficial for town.

@Annet: You are looking at things entirely backwards. You being your case against me with "You could be mafia." That is a useless statement. Anyone could be mafia: roles are randomly distributed in mafia games. In addition you seem to ignore the fact I said I had reasoning that I would present after you posted. Essentially you weaseled your way out of guessing my reasoning, which was the question at hand. Instead you went with "well he could be mafia" & "well he could be town with reasoning, but that's not that probable".

Highlight where Vocal's accusation that my avatar I've had for months makes me scum in a randomly generated game of mafia is credible and dire that I respond to. Any respond I would put out would be a response to a joke and most likely a jovial response itself. We have a deadline in which as the uninformed town we have to identify each other and agree with one another on who the informed mafia (who already have the answers of who is town and who is mafia) and lynch them. Wasting time joking is fun, but playing the game with a sense of urgency and killing scumbags is fun too. In addition, attempting to use the full deadline time can spell disaster. If everyone has their votes spread out and the deadline becomes close, then town must scramble. At this time scum has the most influence as people realize they have to lynch someone (our only way of killing scum) and scum can direct them towards a mislynch easier by getting them to go with a 'middleground' target. The faster town agrees with solid reasoning the harder it is for scum to take time to chat with each other and make a plan for misdirecting us.

In conclusion: let's kill Draco.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10934371&postcount=56

Quite an accusation Xiivi's got going here; there are gears turning underneath that fedora. He makes quite a few solid points, several of which are not easily explained away.

I just realized that this is sounding like another side with Xiivi post Oh so what.

Draco, I'm very interested in what you have to say to all of this. I've also got a couple questions for you:

-Xiivi has cast suspicion upon you - what do you think of Xiivi?

-Do you have any suspicions as to who in the town is mafia?
---Also, do you have any thoughts as to who you believe to be town?

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Vote Count

[2] Clover: Steel, Draconoa
[1] Draconoa: Xiivi
[1] Steel: CloverLeaf
[1] Vocal: DanGR

[2] Note Voting: Vocal, Annet

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline has been set for August 20th at 12:59 PM EST.

Annet has requested replacement. I have two possible newbie replacements and will speak to one of them tomorrow.

 

[-Vocal-]

Vote Count

[2] Clover: Steel, Draconoa
[1] Draconoa: Xiivi
[1] Steel: CloverLeaf
[1] Vocal: DanGR

[2] Note Voting: Vocal, Annet

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.
The deadline has been set for August 20th at 12:59 PM EST.

Annet has requested replacement. I have two possible newbie replacements and will speak to one of them tomorrow.

That's too bad

Newho, I'd also like to hear from Steel about all of this. What do you think of Draco?

 

[DanGR]

I'd like to hear some of y'all's thoughts about this: (Steel & Vocal, you guys specifically.)

Timeline:
-Draconoa is eager to vote.
-Day 1 begins and Draconoa doesn't vote.
-Vocal votes for Xiivi.
-Roughly 30 minutes after his first post past day 1, Draconoa votes for Clover.

Obvious scum is obvious.

Vote: Draconoa44 | End Day

-At this point, Xiivi has decided he thinks Draconoa is scum (for reasons explained just recently).
-Next post in the thread Vocal says this:

"Not even bothering to refute the claims against you? Looks to me as if you're hoping for them to fall away silently, BUT YOU'LL GET NO SUCH MERCY FROM ME!
Guys, Xiivi is obviously mafia."

...to which I respond that he's being aggressive [towards Xiivi].



To me, It seemed too soon for anyone to question the same person twice that firmly during the RVS, with no real basis to their argument. (Am I allowed to bold for emphasis?) If Vocal was a townie, cop, or doctor, why would he do this? What reason would he have to rehash his first random vote?

On the other hand, why would he do this if he were mafia?

The possibility exists that both Vocal and Draconoa are scum. Perhaps Vocal was trying to get Xiivi off Drac's back- bringing up an older post with no substance simply to distract him and others.

My suspicious train of thought moves off the railroad a bit into more sketchy territory around post #48 when Vocal guesses at Xiivi's reasoning for voting for Draconoa, and Vocal unvotes Xiivi; however, I think it's within reason for me to suggest that Vocal may have purposely pointed out that newbie mistake for everyone to recognize as just that- a mistake a newbie would make. I feel like there could be another possible reason he would do that if he were mafia, though, so I'm asking you guys what you think about this. Perhaps I'm being too skeptical.

Regardless, I feel that the possibility that Draconoa is scum is pretty high right now.

 

[-Vocal-]

I'd like to hear some of y'all's thoughts about this: (Steel & Vocal, you guys specifically.)

Timeline:
-Draconoa is eager to vote.
-Day 1 begins and Draconoa doesn't vote.
-Vocal votes for Xiivi.
-Roughly 30 minutes after his first post past day 1, Draconoa votes for Clover.

-At this point, Xiivi has decided he thinks Draconoa is scum (for reasons explained just recently).
-Next post in the thread Vocal says this:

"Not even bothering to refute the claims against you? Looks to me as if you're hoping for them to fall away silently, BUT YOU'LL GET NO SUCH MERCY FROM ME!
Guys, Xiivi is obviously mafia."

...to which I respond that he's being aggressive [towards Xiivi].



To me, It seemed too soon for anyone to question the same person twice that firmly during the RVS, with no real basis to their argument. (Am I allowed to bold for emphasis?) If Vocal was a townie, cop, or doctor, why would he do this? What reason would he have to rehash his first random vote?

On the other hand, why would he do this if he were mafia?

The possibility exists that both Vocal and Draconoa are scum. Perhaps Vocal was trying to get Xiivi off Drac's back- bringing up an older post with no substance simply to distract him and others.

My suspicious train of thought moves off the railroad a bit into more sketchy territory around post #48 when Vocal guesses at Xiivi's reasoning for voting for Draconoa, and Vocal unvotes Xiivi; however, I think it's within reason for me to suggest that Vocal may have purposely pointed out that newbie mistake for everyone to recognize as just that- a mistake a newbie would make. I feel like there could be another possible reason he would do that if he were mafia, though, so I'm asking you guys what you think about this. Perhaps I'm being too skeptical.

Regardless, I feel that the possibility that Draconoa is scum is pretty high right now.

Alright, I'll start by addressing your accusations of me, then move forward from there.

The reason I initially disregarded Xiivi's vote was because at the time I believed he was just randomly voting. Since I didn't think he was serious, I decided to make a post to elicit a response out of him. That's the only reason I kept (lightly) pushing things on Xiivi - pressure = response and that's all we need in the beginning Plus he didn't respond the first time so I tried again. Oh, and I didn't randomly choose to vote for Xiivi in the first place, but it wasn't a real reason either - I equate fedoras with mafiates in old movies so it seemed like a fun place to begin joke voting ^_^

Also, you're insinuating that I'm mafia along with Draco? Then why would I have chosen to agree with Xiivi's suspicion of him? For this, the fact that I was wrong about Xiivi's reasoning doesn't matter - actually, no, that's wrong. Xiivi provided no reasoning whatsoever, so if I was mafia along with Draco I would've just ignored it or tried to discredit it.

Now, moving on.

First post for Day 1.

Post

Vote for Clover

Vote for Xiivi

Vote: Clover

He was late.

People have mentioned this before, but it's really evident when looked at in this manner. We all know that Draco was anxious to start voting, yet his first post was nothing more than a "first post (h)". Then I post some instigative nonsense, not very important. Then both Steel and I joke voted, and THEN Draco voted, aligning his vote with Steels.

Possible excuses he could give for this.

-"I didn't think it was a good idea to vote yet!" The only thing that would have changed this is seeing Steel and I vote - if he had seen our votes, he would have noticed Steel's, yet he still aligned his vote with Steel's against Clover.
-"I didn't see that vote!" Then you would have posted a vote from the beginning without prodding from Steel's vote and mine.

Your move, Draco. Like I said before,
IGMEOY

 

[Noa.]

Oh boy...

Let's start.

Draco started off expressing his eagerness to vote pre-game.

In my confirmation post, I did say "When do we start voting?" I did not want to vote at that time. I wanted to play. Since playing is defined by mostly voting and discussing, I simply said "vote" instead of "play." Excuse me for substituting words. At that point I had no one in particular that I wanted to vote for. Also keep in mind that I specified "When do WE start to vote?" I honestly wanted to see the votes of other people and not truly vote myself, lest I would've said "When do I start to vote?"

However once the game started, he didn't begin with a vote.

As stated above I wasn't necessarily too eager to vote. I also wanted someone else to set the tempo. I knew beforehand that games usually start with random voting, but I was scared to start off. A newb is very scared of looking like scum, and I was pretty scared stiff to vote first.

Steel posts a set a "tips" and introduction into the game, which Draco has now claimed to read. After the votes start flying, Draco brings his own vote in.

I merely wanted someone to set the tempo. Once they did I felt comfortable enough to vote.

However his "Random Voting Stage" vote, lands on a player for the identical reason as Steel's vote. In addition Vocal had already said "Clover is scum" (implying the reason is that Clover confirmed last) in post #26. Essentially, Draco wouldn't put his neck out until there was a bit of establishment of both people voting and the joke reasoning against Clover.

Again like I said earlier, I didn't see that Steel voted for Clover. I read the tips but I skipped over his vote. Now I wish I didn't since if I had read that vote I would not have voted for Clover. Even though I'm noob, I KNOW not to vote for someone after someone else has just voted for them for an arbitrary reason. As for Vocal's comment, I read that and it didn't cross my mind when I was typing my vote. It was a comment that I agreed with jokingly, but I took it further than Vocal and voted onto Clover.

He was excited to use his vote before, but played it on the safe side. This is a simple disconnect and I read it as classic newbie timid scum.

I was not excited to vote, only excited to play. And when I did vote it was on the safe side after others had voted. Can you really say I was being a newbie scum or just a newb being safe? You're taking a big step here thinking that I'm scum just because I want to play safely.

Now let's fast forward to #56. Here I've already established that I will reveal my reasoning after a response from Annet. However, Draco attempts to refute my reasoning before I explain it.

You have made a serious accusation towards me, and yet do not explain why. You want someone else to guess beforehand to pin what kind of person they are. I must say that that is pretty townie and would not be what scum would act like. Instead of just jumping to accuse me you want the opinions of others to see what roles they could possible have.

Anyways, I do not only attempt to refute your point, but try to find out what your point actually was. I wanted to see how I had been acting scummy beforehand and I found that my vote actually was pretty scummy after I realized that Steel also voted for Clover. Just in case that was your point, I refuted it early on.

Is it scummy to post my opinions and thoughts onto your accusation? Even if it was towards me? Vocal did the same, and he pointed something else that seemed scummy.

Vocal had already taken a guess at something that could be considered scummy from Draco. Draco ignores this, instead more preoccupied with me.

Why would I address Vocal's point when you already wrote it off as nooby? That would seem a bit overly defensive, which is scummy.

And of course I'm more preoccupied with you. Not only have you seriously accused me but you're also an IC, which makes you pretty intimidating lol.

He attempts to dismantle my case by guessing what my case is and making excuses. So he's attempting to discredit me before I've presented anything.

You are referring to his post here. I spend most of that post describing a review of myself in this thread. I only refer to you near the end of this post.This post is in reaction to your accusation, but it serves not only to guess at what your case is but to showcase my opinions on my actions thus far.

At this point you're trying to make me look guilty for posting some thoughts. Besides at this point you've already decided that I'm scum, so this post shouldn't add much to your case.

In addition he's claiming to have read the majority of Steel's post and the post immediately after Steel's (Vocal's) and claims to have have missed a bolded vote in between that (which his directly mimiced in reasoning). I read this as scum feeling he's already been caught and getting preoccupied with making an excuse for a 'mistake' he's thought he's made.

In all honesty it was just a mistake. A mistake I wish I wouldn't have made. If I did see that Steel had also voted for Clover, I would not have voted for Clover. And look at the mess I'm in now. This was not me being scummy, just me being stupid and skimming.

#57 furthers my belief of this. Steel uses "think" in italics in his post, intentionally trying to see both in-the-know and clueless about my reasoning ["I could know, but I might be wrong..." type of deal]. Steel pretty much doesn't attempt to take a stance here on my thought process. However, Draco is quick to give Steel credit for being experienced (and therefore somehow able to read my thoughts). So that's why it gives off the impression of Draco being scum feeling he's been caught.

You directly asked me to post my thoughts on why Steel posted with italics. I say that Steel could possibly know why you think I'm scummy. And Steel probably did know why you thought I was scummy. He has experience. No, experience does not allow him to read your mind, but it does allow him to know your likely train of thought. After all even I was able to guess it, so how would I not believe that Steel would also be able to get it? He's probably a much better player then me.

In conclusion: let's kill Draco.

In conclusion, Xiivi just took the fact that I voted for Clover after Steel did, and tried to pin every other little thing that I did as scummy and directly related to it. I admit that me voting for Clover after Steel was scummy, but that was based off a mistake of mine and it is the only scummy post of mine. Stop trying to wow the rest of the town with baseless assumptions.

Draco, I'm very interested in what you have to say to all of this. I've also got a couple questions for you:

-Xiivi has cast suspicion upon you - what do you think of Xiivi?

-Do you have any suspicions as to who in the town is mafia?
---Also, do you have any thoughts as to who you believe to be town?

I said earlier in this post that Xiivi did seem a bit townish for questioning Annett before posting his reasons for accusing me but obviously I'm not completely convinced he's town. I'm not gonna accuse him of being mafia even if he's wrongly accused me.

I have no real suspicions as to who is town and who is mafia. Albeit you do seem a bit scummy for suddenly jumping into Xiivi's wagon before he actually posted his reasons. Nothing definite though.

 

[Noa.]

I'll respond to other posts later. My friend has been begging me to play with him.

 

[Steel]

That makes much more sense to me; thanks for clearing it up


To begin, I was saying I liked Xiivi's idea about waiting for Annett to post his (her?) thoughts; I hadn't even been paying attention to him

Next, he's the only one who's insinuated that he had a real reason for voting so far. I try to figure things out (like a puzzle), so when he said he had a reason for voting Draco I decided to look through Draco's posts. That part I highlighted stuck out more than anything else to me, so I figured that was his reasoning; I guess I was wrong with it however ^_^ I suppose that in reality, since my guess was wrong I don't really know why Xiivi is pressuring Draco.

That said, the other reason I decided to temporarily side with Xiivi was simple because he was the only one applying pressure. Pressure causes people to respond, and responses can help to determine whether someone is foe or friend, mafia or town, scum or no-scum. It's all about feeling people out

Not that I'm going to be adding much pressure to Draco now that I've explained my intentions

Pretty good response

At certain times, yes. In general, no. Why do you ask?

I ask because it looked like you had a problem with Vocal being aggressive so early in the game, so I wanted to learn your thoughts.

I'd like to hear some of y'all's thoughts about this: (Steel & Vocal, you guys specifically.)

Timeline:
-Draconoa is eager to vote.
-Day 1 begins and Draconoa doesn't vote.
-Vocal votes for Xiivi.
-Roughly 30 minutes after his first post past day 1, Draconoa votes for Clover.

-At this point, Xiivi has decided he thinks Draconoa is scum (for reasons explained just recently).
-Next post in the thread Vocal says this:

"Not even bothering to refute the claims against you? Looks to me as if you're hoping for them to fall away silently, BUT YOU'LL GET NO SUCH MERCY FROM ME!
Guys, Xiivi is obviously mafia."

...to which I respond that he's being aggressive [towards Xiivi].



To me, It seemed too soon for anyone to question the same person twice that firmly during the RVS, with no real basis to their argument. (Am I allowed to bold for emphasis?) If Vocal was a townie, cop, or doctor, why would he do this? What reason would he have to rehash his first random vote?

On the other hand, why would he do this if he were mafia?

The possibility exists that both Vocal and Draconoa are scum. Perhaps Vocal was trying to get Xiivi off Drac's back- bringing up an older post with no substance simply to distract him and others.

My suspicious train of thought moves off the railroad a bit into more sketchy territory around post #48 when Vocal guesses at Xiivi's reasoning for voting for Draconoa, and Vocal unvotes Xiivi; however, I think it's within reason for me to suggest that Vocal may have purposely pointed out that newbie mistake for everyone to recognize as just that- a mistake a newbie would make. I feel like there could be another possible reason he would do that if he were mafia, though, so I'm asking you guys what you think about this. Perhaps I'm being too skeptical.

Regardless, I feel that the possibility that Draconoa is scum is pretty high right now.

There's lots of WIFOM (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wine_In_Front_Of_Me) in this post. First off, when I read what Vocal did it seemed like he was just trying to pressure Xiivi to get him talking - i saw nothing wrong with it. Granted there was no real "pressure" there as it was RVS, it's certainly a method to get responses out of people and is something I have done in past games.

Second, I think we are putting too much emphasis in Draco's "when do we start voting?" post. This is the first game where I have EVER seen someone use someone's pre-game post as a part of their argument. Not only did I read that post as a joke, but the game did not even start when Draco Malfoy posted that, it's null.

Alright, I'll start by addressing your accusations of me, then move forward from there.

The reason I initially disregarded Xiivi's vote was because at the time I believed he was just randomly voting. Since I didn't think he was serious, I decided to make a post to elicit a response out of him. That's the only reason I kept (lightly) pushing things on Xiivi - pressure = response and that's all we need in the beginning Plus he didn't respond the first time so I tried again. Oh, and I didn't randomly choose to vote for Xiivi in the first place, but it wasn't a real reason either - I equate fedoras with mafiates in old movies so it seemed like a fun place to begin joke voting ^_^

Also, you're insinuating that I'm mafia along with Draco? Then why would I have chosen to agree with Xiivi's suspicion of him? For this, the fact that I was wrong about Xiivi's reasoning doesn't matter - actually, no, that's wrong. Xiivi provided no reasoning whatsoever, so if I was mafia along with Draco I would've just ignored it or tried to discredit it.

WIFOM, vocal. Scum will often, especially on D1 try to make it seem as if they have no connection with their scum partner and try to get them lynched. Once we get a flip (lynch result, town or scum), we can start to judge the motives of those who interacted with him.

Oh boy...

In my confirmation post, I did say "When do we start voting?" I did not want to vote at that time. I wanted to play. Since playing is defined by mostly voting and discussing, I simply said "vote" instead of "play." Excuse me for substituting words. At that point I had no one in particular that I wanted to vote for. Also keep in mind that I specified "When do WE start to vote?" I honestly wanted to see the votes of other people and not truly vote myself, lest I would've said "When do I start to vote?"

As stated above I wasn't necessarily too eager to vote. I also wanted someone else to set the tempo. I knew beforehand that games usually start with random voting, but I was scared to start off. A newb is very scared of looking like scum, and I was pretty scared stiff to vote first.

I merely wanted someone to set the tempo. Once they did I felt comfortable enough to vote.

Again like I said earlier, I didn't see that Steel voted for Clover. I read the tips but I skipped over his vote. Now I wish I didn't since if I had read that vote I would not have voted for Clover. Even though I'm noob, I KNOW not to vote for someone after someone else has just voted for them for an arbitrary reason. As for Vocal's comment, I read that and it didn't cross my mind when I was typing my vote. It was a comment that I agreed with jokingly, but I took it further than Vocal and voted onto Clover

I was not excited to vote, only excited to play. And when I did vote it was on the safe side after others had voted. Can you really say I was being a newbie scum or just a newb being safe? You're taking a big step here thinking that I'm scum just because I want to play safely.

You have made a serious accusation towards me, and yet do not explain why. You want someone else to guess beforehand to pin what kind of person they are. I must say that that is pretty townie and would not be what scum would act like. Instead of just jumping to accuse me you want the opinions of others to see what roles they could possible have.

Anyways, I do not only attempt to refute your point, but try to find out what your point actually was. I wanted to see how I had been acting scummy beforehand and I found that my vote actually was pretty scummy after I realized that Steel also voted for Clover. Just in case that was your point, I refuted it early on.

Is it scummy to post my opinions and thoughts onto your accusation? Even if it was towards me? Vocal did the same, and he pointed something else that seemed scummy.

Why would I address Vocal's point when you already wrote it off as nooby? That would seem a bit overly defensive, which is scummy.

And of course I'm more preoccupied with you. Not only have you seriously accused me but you're also an IC, which makes you pretty intimidating lol.

You are referring to his post here. I spend most of that post describing a review of myself in this thread. I only refer to you near the end of this post.This post is in reaction to your accusation, but it serves not only to guess at what your case is but to showcase my opinions on my actions thus far.

At this point you're trying to make me look guilty for posting some thoughts. Besides at this point you've already decided that I'm scum, so this post shouldn't add much to your case.

In all honesty it was just a mistake. A mistake I wish I wouldn't have made. If I did see that Steel had also voted for Clover, I would not have voted for Clover. And look at the mess I'm in now. This was not me being scummy, just me being stupid and skimming.

You directly asked me to post my thoughts on why Steel posted with italics. I say that Steel could possibly know why you think I'm scummy. And Steel probably did know why you thought I was scummy. He has experience. No, experience does not allow him to read your mind, but it does allow him to know your likely train of thought. After all even I was able to guess it, so how would I not believe that Steel would also be able to get it? He's probably a much better player then me.

In conclusion, Xiivi just took the fact that I voted for Clover after Steel did, and tried to pin every other little thing that I did as scummy and directly related to it. I admit that me voting for Clover after Steel was scummy, but that was based off a mistake of mine and it is the only scummy post of mine. Stop trying to wow the rest of the town with baseless assumptions.

I said earlier in this post that Xiivi did seem a bit townish for questioning Annett before posting his reasons for accusing me but obviously I'm not completely convinced he's town. I'm not gonna accuse him of being mafia even if he's wrongly accused me.

I have no real suspicions as to who is town and who is mafia. Albeit you do seem a bit scummy for suddenly jumping into Xiivi's wagon before he actually posted his reasons. Nothing definite though.

Draco I feel like you're digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole with each post and I'm starting to seriously dislike you (mafia note: not in a personal way, but I'm not comfortable with your play and I'm feeling a lot of scummy vibes).

Your first paragraph is really silly, saying "no i meant I wanted to play not vote" makes me feel like you know you just got caught but are scrambling to try and find reasons to throw out. Not to mention, your post wasn't even in the actual game, so I'm confused why you are getting over defensive about it. But anyway, you say you wanted to play, but in the latter part of the paragraph you say you wanted to see other people vote before you so THEN you could vote? That seems like scum trying to stay out of the spotlight to me. If you are town you have nothing to hide, so why be nervous about throwing out random votes when you apparently KNEW that games start out with random votes?

I also have a problem with the last part of your post. You seem to just be parroting what I said to Vocal about his interactions with Xiivi. Nothing new, but seemingly another safe (man i love italics this game) comment without actually igniting any new discussion or thoughts.

I'm very uncomfortable with you, but I'm going to hold off on a vote for now to see more of you and also leave my vote on Clover because he's been non existent and he needs to get his thoughts in the game.

 

[Frio]

So I'll replace that guy if you want

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Haha, beat me to it.

Frio replaces -Annet211-

 

[-Vocal-]

So many delicious posts to devour and digest

Before I say anything, I'd like to know what our new member, Frio, has to say about all of this. I'm guessing it will take you a little while to read the thread but once you do, I'd like to ask you a couple questions:

-After reading everything, what do you think of Draco?
-Do you have any feelings on anyone else?
-Do you have any pets? Why or why not? (This one isn't exactly Mafia related, but I'd just like to better know who you are )

Also, a question for Dan:

-With Steel's analysis of your post, it almost looks like your just trying to muddy the waters and confuse everyone - as in you're trying to throw them off the track and keep them from making progress. What would you say to this?

 

[Sky Pirate]

I haven't said much because there's so much to read through and I have been lacking time lately between Harvest Moon and this new Brood stuff. ^^;
That said, I suppose my plan does seem a bit bad. Too many people lost too early.

Seems kind of strange that Steel is trying to pressure me along with Draco, even though I've said more than Annet (Frio now).

I strongly believe that Steel and Draco are the Mafia people. Draco has already proven to be a suspicious individual and Steel has more experience in the game and chooses to align his vote with Draco's. It's quite likely that he WOULD make up an excuse like that while relying on the comfort he gives off from his experience (I REALLY don't know how to phrase that XD), but we should probably vote him off first to isolate Draco.