Newbie Mafia 6 - OVER! Who lived happily ever after in Newbie Land?!

[vanderzant]

@Xiivi: Request Vote Count

Thank you.

 

[Xiivi]

Deadline for Day 2 has been set for April 27th, 2010 11:59AM EST.

It's takes 6/11 to lynch!
​

Day 2 Vote Count 3:

Clownbot: (0)
Gheb_01: (0)
​

Kataefi: Gheb_01 (

)
McFox: (0)
rPSI: vanderzant, Clownbot, Swiss, McFox (

)
Ryker: (0)
Swiss: (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan: SwordsRbroken (

)
SwordsRbroken: (0)
The_Guide: rPSI, Ryker (

)
vanderzant: Kataefi, Super Smash Bros. Fan (

)
Not Voting: The_Guide (

)

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Ryker is definitely voting The_Guide right now.

 

[vanderzant]

Since others have done it, I think scum is some combination of rPSI, The_guide, Kat, SSBF.

Unvote

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Until he posts something constructive. Plus I don't want rPSI getting quick lynched by The_Guide.

 

[Deleted member]

@vanderzant: I do have to agree with your vote on me. Granted, I don't like it, but then again, no one wants to have votes on them. However, I can't argue with that. However, the main reason for this is because I have not completed my analysis of the whole game. The reason why it's taking so long it's because it is very, very, very large and once completed, will take a long time to read, so I'm really hoping it will be worth the effort. I'll ask a few people some questions, make a massive quote-post of the thread, give my general opinion on everyone, and search for people with the most connection regarding xxFrohawkxx, the one confirmed scum.

Here's some good news. I've finally gotten some progress done with my massive post. Now I'm only halfway there, but given the circumstances, I should be able to finish it very late tonight or early tomorrow. There is an reason why I sacrificed all my time on this thread.

This is what I've found as of the end of page 6:

Ryker has been playing extremely scummy in my eyes. Most of his posts has been filled with scumminess and regarding the tunneling situation, I believe he deserved each and every one of them. I've noticed so much that is wrong with him that I was surprised that he actually ended his argument with Swiss and McFox.

HoS (Hands of Suspicion): Ryker

I'm willing to spare him the vote, thought, as he has gotten slightly better since the incident.

He isn't my only suspect, thought. rPSI has also been relatively scummy lately. I'm not liking his high amount of contradictions, his obvious active lurking, and not much contents in his posts overall. He also hasn't been very helpful to town.

FoS: rPSI

I can honestly hope that either improve further later on in the game.

Basically my thought now.

You people might ask me one or both of these things:

1. Why haven't you address you responses yet?

Because I am saving all of them for my analysis. I'm going in chronlogical order here, that's why I'm explaining it later.

2. Why haven't you made a vote yet?

Because I have not finished my analysis and I don't feel like doing so until my massive post is completed. It will take awhile, so be patience.

 

[vanderzant]

@ SSBF fair enough. Looking forward to it.

@ Everyone else, if I may have your attention please:

So, anyone else think that scum bussed Frohawk? 'Cause I certainly do.

Also, its almost definite that some scum were on the Fro wagon; not only did 7 out of 12 people vote, but three others expressed their suspicion of him. The only people not to comment on it at all were McFox and Fro himself (speaking of McFox, where has he gotten off to? Did I miss a V/La?).

All I'm saying is, people can't use "I was on the Fro wagon, so I must be town," as a defense. Since everyone was suspicious of him, its a certainty that one of his voters was scum.

All I'm saying is, people can't use "I was on the Fro wagon, so I must be town," as a defense. Since everyone was suspicious of him, its a certainty that one of his voters was scum.

people can't use "I was on the Fro wagon, so I must be town," as a defense.

OH NO HE DIDN'T!!!!

rPsi, if I were scum, would I seriously have tried to get Frohawk lynched D1? Especially when it looked like no one was going to go after him?

OH YES HE DID!!!!

Also, anyone else not liking The_Guide's blatant 360 flip from suggesting that I'm scum, to labelling the person I have undoubtedly hounded more than anyone this game - rPSI - as scum who we're definitely lynching today?

rPsi is the play today, though. I'm putting him at L-1 at midnight next Sunday.

Look at these:

Vote: Vanderzant

I don't like how he says that he wants to provoke Ryker and rPsi with his response/vote. Sure, putting pressure on someone is absolutely fine, but the wordchoice here doesn't ring with me. It sounds more like he wants them to make an innocent slip, and then jump on them for that.

I'm gonna echo rPsi here, Vander. I'd like to see a clear cut case on him, and whatever questions of yours he didn't answer. I think town would benefit from having his case all in one page, as it eliminates any possible misconceptions. Also, I'd get a chance to see you amazing powers of persuasion at work .

Then later that day...

@ Everyone: Can we agree that Frohawk didn't try to play WIFOM?

...

I'd like to hear people's thoughts before I explain where I'm going with this.

Frohawk post of the day:

Here, Fro clearly tries to defend rPsi, at a point in which he was at L-3. Now, if rPsi were town, Frohawk shouldn't have hesitated to put him at L-2. A good majority of the town was suspicious of rPsi at that point, so it wouldn't have been that hard to get him lynched (Iirc, Fro posted this on Saturday, so the impending deadline would've worked in his favor as well).

Plus, his defense is pretty weaksauce. Seriously, he doesn't even say that rPsi hasn't been acting suspicious; he just tries to explain it away, to justify it.

To me, this post looks like a blatant attempt by scum to try to hide one of their own, and I'm going to act on this.

Vote: rPsi

So, yeah. More rPsi votes, plz.

I still want rPsi lynched today, tho.

To me, its not so much that he defended him, its that he didn't put him within lynch range when he had the opportunity to.

I'm not so sure about Kat being scum, but I can admit that he's kinda flow under the radar bit. It'll be worth talking about him for a bit.

rPsi is the play today, though. I'm putting him at L-1 at midnight next Sunday.

Pretty noticeable jump in stance imo.

One more thing, I don't like the constant Vote, Unvote thing. It could be an honest mistake, but it just looks like he's voting to show everyone he's super serious, but then he unvotes so it's like it didn't matter anyway. 1st example is @ me, 2nd is @ rPSI

Wait a sec, that puts him at L-2...

Unvote

Just know that this can go back on you at the flip of a dime.

Oh, wow, I thought that my vote would put him at L-2. Sorry about that, I don't want the day to end THAT soon.

Unvote

I still want rPsi lynched today, tho.

Unvote

Vote: The_Guide

 

[rPSIvysaur]

lol, I basically have stated everything that Van has said, except without the massive quoting. I think that Van pretty much nails everything I was saying about The_Guide.

 

[Deleted member]

I read Vanderzant's post today and I will be looking harshly at The Guide now. Espeically when my posts comes up.

Another person to add into my FoS list.

Basically, Ryker is my top suspect, with rPSI and The Guide tied as 2nd.

 

[McFox]

to labelling the person I have undoubtedly hounded more than anyone this game - rPSI - as scum who we're definitely lynching today?

Don't count on it. I predict a massive shift in lynchee popularity from rPSI to ANYONE ELSE within 48 hours of the deadline.

Not from myself, of course, but from everyone else, almost definitely. Not that this is a good idea, mind you, just that it's SWF mafia and that's what happens.

 

[vanderzant]

Don't count on it. I predict a massive shift in lynchee popularity from rPSI to ANYONE ELSE within 48 hours of the deadline.

Not from myself, of course, but from everyone else, almost definitely. Not that this is a good idea, mind you, just that it's SWF mafia and that's what happens.

I meant, The_Guide made it quite clear that rPSI is who he wants to lynch today.

 

[Kataefi]

unvote

Is there anything to explain why Guide would last minute incriminate Fro and get him lynched? especially when Rpsi was a perfecty acceptable lynch target to begin with end of Day 1? It's unlikely to be Fro/Guide/Rpsi together because that wouldn't be an efficient bus.

Mcfox - what's your take on guide/vanz/rpsi?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Is there anything to explain why Guide would last minute incriminate Fro and get him lynched? especially when Rpsi was a perfecty acceptable lynch target to begin with end of Day 1? It's unlikely to be Fro/Guide/Rpsi together because that wouldn't be an efficient bus.

^

Why I like Kat / PSI lynch over Guide toDay.

 

[Kataefi]

Gheb you never responded to the post before my last.

 

[Kataefi]

These actually:

This is a null point, Gheb - and this is because I was never the focus of attention to begin with D1. You'll do well to point out, amongst Fro's 9 posts, just where he tried drawing attention away from me.

and me specifically, gheb.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

He mentioned pretty much everybody else. Why'd he leave you alone out of all the people?

 

[Swiss]

Gheb, failing to mention one player when the Fro only posted about nine times isn't a scum tell imo, perhaps he just didn't have anything to say about him. And most of what he said about other people was just re-wording what had already been said, the mention of their name was there, that's all, no points or reasoning which would have drawn attention away.


I'm still favouring the rPSI lynch today, but I don't like this post, at all.

Don't count on it. I predict a massive shift in lynchee popularity from rPSI to ANYONE ELSE within 48 hours of the deadline.

Not from myself, of course, but from everyone else, almost definitely. Not that this is a good idea, mind you, just that it's SWF mafia and that's what happens.

It looks like he's trying to convince people not lynching who we think is scum is normal, but that he won't change vote. Looks like a scum covering his buddies *** AND covering his by saying "Look, I wanted him lynched when you all swapped before", the bolded bit is his get out clause. Perfect scum move for a rPSI/McFox scum team.


FoS McFox

 

[Kataefi]

Why'd he leave you alone out of all the people?

You can apply this logic to everyone he left out, which isn't specific to myself.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I don't like how Kataefi is pseudoscumhunting. Reeks of scumminess. I'm still liking rPSI lynch over anything else, but kataefi can go at this point too. He tries to seem town by seeming to scumhunt, but in reality he is not.

 

[Kataefi]

Swords stop people-pleasing! Everything you've said is fashionable in this thread so you're not exactly one to talk.

Exactly what classifies as pseudoscumhunting?

 

[Deleted member]

I got done with responding to people. Now I need to see what's similarities that xxFrohawkxx had connection with and my general thought on all living players. And after all that, I will make a vote.

 

[McFox]

Mcfox - what's your take on guide/vanz/rpsi?

Definitely think PSI is scum, undecided on the other two so far. I don't like the contradiction that Guide made that "scum would bus Frohawk so they can say 'Yeah look at me I helped lynched Frohawk'" and then "Yeah why would I lynch Frohawk as scum?" That just reeks, but otherwise I think most of what he's had to say is sound, and I don't get a scum vibe from him yet. vand I'd like to reconsider after PSI's flip, assuming we get it.

It looks like he's trying to convince people not lynching who we think is scum is normal,

It IS normal on SWF to pull a lynch out of the town's collective *** 48 hours before deadline. Just check any game ever played on this forum and you'll see what I mean.

but that he won't change vote.

Correct. rPSI is my lynch candidate for toDay, unless someone else MAJORLY screws up.

Looks like a scum covering his buddies *** AND covering his by saying "Look, I wanted him lynched when you all swapped before", the bolded bit is his get out clause. Perfect scum move for a rPSI/McFox scum team.

I am actively encouraging people NOT to switch their votes, by voicing how often it happens for NO REASON within 48 hours of the deadline. In case I haven't been clear, I definitely, absolutely want rPSI lynched toDay. I do not want anyone to switch their votes off of him, and I'd like two more people to add their votes before deadline.

As a new player, I can sort of see where you're coming from with this, but any IC can back me up that the majority of the time, no matter how good a lynch looks beforehand, someone new will get picked within 48 hours of deadline and everyone will jump over.

Hell, need an example? Check this very game. This is exactly what happened D1. The fact that it worked and we lynched scum is irrelevant to what I'm saying.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So when I flip town, why is it only Van that gets looked at and not Swiss and you?

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Swords stop people-pleasing! Everything you've said is fashionable in this thread so you're not exactly one to talk.

Exactly what classifies as pseudoscumhunting?

Pseudo scumhunting? As in you look like you are posting new content and asking good questions, but in reality, they are nothing but a bunch of bull + parroting.

 

[Clownbot]

Gheb, if Frohawk not mentioning Kat makes Kat suspicious then Frohawk never mentioned Hida (who you replaced) in his posts either, so.... >_>

 

[Deleted member]

Here it is, my big, massive post that I promised a few days ago.

Yeah, it's been in the works for a long while, but now it's completed. Please note that this post is extrememly long, but I want everyone here to read every single letter in this thread and NOT skim.

This is my massive post here. Sorry for the delay:
So, these are the remaining eleven people in the game (Not including me or people who've been replaced):
1. Me (Duh!)
2. Ryker
3. McFox
4. Swiss
5. The Guide
6. SwordRbroken
7. Gheb 01
8. Clownbot
9. vanderzant
10. Kataefi
11. rPSI

The twevelth player was xxFrohawkxx, who was revealed as an Mafia Goon when lynched on Day 1. We were lucky to not receive a kill on Night 1, something that is great for townies, which gives us more oppertunities to win the game. VitaminC, Sworddancer, and hidajiremi got replaced. Clownbot replaced VitaminC, I replaced Sworddancer, and Gheb 01 replaced hidajiremi.

This is my experience with Mafia games. Ryker asked us a question on what experience we have with Mafia games, so I'll answer his question:

I started to play Mafia games on March 5, 2010, when I signed up for Smash Bros. Mafia. By then, I just started to visit Smash World Forums regularly and met up with some cool people like Lucas Perfected. At first, I didn't really care much for the Forum Games section, since they equal spam, which meant that posts didn't count. However, I decided to enter the forum and play a few forum games in the site (Wasn't super active, thought). I thought I was way too weak for the Decisive Games section. Shortly after, I decided to enter one with confidence that maybe someday, I'll actually be an decent Mafia player.

Smash Bros. Mafia, ran by SwordRbroken, started on March 8, 2010. I was an Mafia Goon. Looking back on it, I was a pretty terrible player. I was inactive throughout parts of Day 1, made many major contradictions, and got on a LOT of people nerves, especially Meta-Kirby. I barely escaped lynch on Day 1, but I was not so lucky in Day 2. After litterally cracking under pressure and having the assumption that claiming doesn't work (Still believe that they don't to this day), on the middle of Day 2, I made an seriously unexpected and controversial move and lynched myself. I would consider this my very worst Mafia game on Smash World Forums, period.

Luckily, Newbie Mafia 5 went a lot, lot smoother and I played a lot better. I barely received any suspicion until Day 3, and even then, I managed to avoid lynch completely, surviving until endgame (Clownbot won). The game started on March 8, 2010 and ended on April 7, 2010. Oh and before I forget, I was an Town Mason.
I signed up for Mafiascum on Mach 25, 2010 with my first game being Newbie Mafia 934. It is currently Day 2 in there and I'm still in the game. The game started on March 29, 2010, in case anyone is interested in knowing.

On March 31, 2010, my 3rd game on this site, The Muppet Mafia started. The game is currently in Night 2 and is my 2nd non-newbie game. I'm noticing an slight improvement in my gameplay, but nothing seriously good.

I joined Mini 955 on Mafiascum on April 19, 2010 to replace DoomCow. If you're interested in more information about me, please check that thread out.

Mini 958 on Mafiascum started on April 20, 2010, on my birthday. Currently Day 1, nothing much to talk about yet.

I decided to branch out a little with my 4th Mafia game with Tree Stump Mafia, which also started on my birthday.

The next game I'm going to be in is DBZ Mafia, hosted by Ronike. This is the first relatively complicating Mafia game I'm going to be playing, so here's hoping everything goes well.

However, just a fair warning. Right now, I'm in six games, fixing to be seven. I can deal with that for now, since I will not be replacing or lynching myself at all, but I am planning on reducing the amount of Mafia games I play in the near future. With a job most likely coming up, plus the fact that I just got myself a copy of my most anticapted Wii game (Monster Hunter Tri), I don't want to overload myself and cause my activity to decline in all games in general. This is why you shouldn't expect me to be super active in Mafia games for now on. I'm planning on bringing the amount of Mafia games I play from two to four.

I'll ask you guys some questions:

@SwordRbroken: What is your opinion on the Random Question Stage? It is another way to get a game started where you basically ask random questions about who you are. Have you've ever played a game with Random Question Stage instead of the famous Random Voting Stage? What do you think is the best way to get a game started?

@Ryker: You apprently love RVS and see a lot of value in it. Now try answering this question without dismissing my post as a load of ****. What do you think are the disadvantages of RVS and why? Please give at least one reason.

@The Guide: Aside from rPSI, do you have other suspects?

@Vanderzant: Aside from rPSI and The Guide, do you have anyone else you consider suspicious?

@Clownbot: On Day 1, you said that you would find a 3rd suspect. Given that xxFrohawkxx fliped scum, we now have only two. Who is that other suspect and why?

@rPSI: Had it not been for xxFrohawkxx's lynch, do you think you would have been Day 1 lynch?

@McFox: Since the argument between you and Ryker is over, you seem to think he's town now. Why so?

@Kataefi: Who are you suspects and why?

@Swiss: Looking back into Day 1, do you wish you would have hammered xxFrohawkxx then? I wasn't liking your cop out.

@Gheb 01: Aside from Kataefi, do you find anyone else suspicious? If so, then who and why?

The next part will basically be responding to older posts made before me. When I get close to the end, I will keep refreshing the page until there isn't anymore. Thankfully, this post is done on a Friday and it's almost 5:00 PM, so I should have plenty of time to finish this. Before starting on responding, there's a few things you need to know:

- Not all posts will be directly quoted. If you want me to directly quote certain statements I'm responding to that haven't been directly quoted, then please ask me.

- No posts from xxFrohawkxx will be mentioned, as he is dead.

- I will be including posts from everyone else, even the people who got replaced (VitaminC, Sworddancer, and hidajiremi).

- @Clownbot and Gheb 01: The way VitaminC and hidajiremi played will be an secondary influence. Now you might be an good player, but if I don't like the person you replaced, they could bring you down to a null read. It especially hurts if I'm currrently not liking you when I get this post done.

- All of this is done as I read through the thread. As of 6:17 PM, I have not completely finished reading the thread.

Next part, where I respond to other people quote.

@SwordRbroken (Post #20): Pretty helpful post. It'll get us somewhere.
　
@Ryker (Post #22):

Vote: RocketPSIence

And I will say that waaaaaaaaaay too many people underestimate the usefulness of RVS.

Now, I want to ask what experience everyone has had with mafia in general. IRL, AIMafia, Forum Mafia, etc.

You voted for rPSI, said that people underestimate the usefulness of RVS, and then asked us a question on how much experience we had with Mafia games. Contradiction much?

@The Guide (Post #32): I'm trying to gain an relatively aggressive playstyle in the game, but I'm trying to watch what I say at the same time. Failing to do the latter has caused me to become prime suspect at one time in all but Newbie Mafia 5 in Day 1. Not commenting about Tree Stump Mafia, Mini 955, or Mini 958, since those games just got started.

@McFox (Post #34): From what I see, Random Voting Stage is the prefered method of starting an Mafia game and Ryker has good reasons to support RVS over RQS. Sure RVS has it's disadvantages, but it allows more activity to flow in, considered more natural, and brings in interesting reactions.

Also, your welcome newbie post was not very helpful at all. You could have at least give suggestions on how to play Mafia games.

@Ryker (Post #36): I do agree, but I do see people taking advantage of RVS a lot of times. I saw it in Smash Bros. Mafia after I got my computer fixed.

@McFox (Post #40): Why did you bypass xxFrohawkxx question? You have plenty of experience with Mafia games, so that means you must have some experience with RVS. What makes it especially uncalled for is that we've both played Newbie Mafia 5 and you never complained about Random Voting Stage. As a matter of fact, I thought you actually enjoyed it.

@Kataefi (Post #42):

@Frohawk: swords addressed RVS @post #20 RVS: Emphasis onvotes! - there may or may not be reasoning why someone gives a vote. Really you're looking to place pressure on players this way to get them to speak up, slip up or say something that may get the ball rolling.

It's not always this mechanical - some people prefer RQS, which emphasises questions/discussion over votes.

A mixture of the 2 at this stage is always cool, but it's totally your call! A lot of things can often happen at the start of the game, some players even get creative.

It's really nice of you to address what xxFrohawkxx wanted to ask. Also, having Random Voting Stage and Random Question Stage to co-exist with each other is brillant planning. It's combining both things into one that benefits town the most.

@Sworddancer (Post #43): I think both have there advantages and disadvantages.
Random Voting Stage: Gets interesting reaction from other people. helps increase activity in the game, and feels more natural. However, it can lead to an accidental mislynch early on the game if someone is not careful, plus it takes longer to gather information, as they have been known to last for hundreds of posts (One game on Mafiascum had eleven pages of it).

Random Question Stage: Leaves less oppertunity for a mislynch to occur, is actually semi-serious, and gather more information about the game in general. However, due to Random Voting Stage being the prefered method, it runs the risk of having an less active game overall and if you don't do it at the absolute beginning of the game, people can call you out for asking random questions, which can cause RQS to backfire on you.

I slightly prefer Random Question Stage if you asked me. However, both ways are fine. However, if anyone here doesn't like either, I'd like for you to respond on how you like to get a game started.

@vanderzant (Post #46):

Q: Does anyone else have some thoughts on the set up? Have you tried a similar set up to this before? What worked, etc.

I think it looks kind of cool. As a matter of fact, it was the reason why I wanted to join the game as an SE (SwordRbroken claimed the spot). Also because I love learning about the world.

I have not tried an similar set-up to this. The closest that I can imagine is Smash Bros. Mafia, but that's only because it had twelve players. So yeah, I've never played a set-up like this. This is the first time I've done this.

@Ryker (Post #47): There is nothing wrong with starting out with Random Question Stage. Sure, it has it's disadvantages, but it also has some positive that Random Voting Stage has a harder time replicating. Like for example, it allow for less mislynches in the game, gathers more information, and is actually semi-serious.
Random Voting Stage also has it's disadvantages. It runs the risk of having an mislynch on a townie or at least an very uninformed lynch on a scum (Which would result in gathering almost no information), and if we're not careful, can take forever to get out of, causing us to scramble for a lynch.

@Ryker (Post #48): Elaborate on this. Pretty pointless to answer if you're just going to say one word in an post. Go into details about it.

@The Guide (Post #49): This. Not only that, people can choose between Random Voting Stage and Random Question Stage, further supporting your suggestion that they don't really interfear with each other.

@Ryker (Post #52): Not immediately, but eventually, Random Question Stage can provide pressure toward the target individual. If a post seems scummy after we're in the process of exiting Random Question Stage, we can build off from there and that's how serious discussion can be started.

@Swiss (Post #54): I'm sorry, but that's technically impossible. Unless we were to actually take the time to do an year-long experiement with equal amount of RQS and RVS to start the game, there is no way to make an conclusion on it. All we have is our opinion on the situation.

@rPSI (Post #67): Correction: Mayling is not in the game in any shape or form.

@Ryker (Post #65, #70, #73, #77): If this is how you apply pressure to another person, then I consider it inapporite. All this does is send another red flag to you. You gave absolutely no reason for voting him at the time, you voted for him multiple time when all you need is one vote, Swiss had nothing suspicious about him at the time, and this was right in the MIDDLE of your argument with McFox. Why didn't you apply the bandwagon to him when you were clearly in an argument with him? I still wouldn't have like it, but at least it would have given you the oppertunity to get people to believe you, that is, if you actually gave decent reasons. This clearly makes no sense as you are applying a bandwagon to a person who clearly didn't deserve it.

@rPSI (Post #78): I'm not entirely against early bandwagons. They can be very useful for applying presure on a person and start a solid case of them if they choose so. However, Ryker picked an bad target to go after and that has increase my scumbar for him.

@Swiss (Post #79): You do have a very good point there, but while I do disagree with Ryker's bandwagon, I don't think he was using this as an attempt to get you lynched, just to apply pressure on you.

@Ryker (Post #83):

Can we get more votes please.

Your bandwagon at this post looks like to receive the result you want. Try to be patience and your result will most likely come.

@Ryker (Post #90): First off, the first four posts you quoted were during the Random Voting Stage, so saying that it's a problem just because they're a joke doesn't mean that. Second of all, early bandwagons, while good, are not the only way to get a lynch. We can slowly gather information over time and then build off a solid case that a person might be scum. And third, no one can prove that anyone is scum, unless they are scum them self. The closest we'll ever get to it until a Day ends with a lynch or unless someone ruins the game is to have strong evidence that a person is scum that a lot of people believe. And third, how was McFox really attempting to defend you? All he did was said he didn't like the bandwagon on him, that's it.

@Ryker (Post #92): Just because hida jiremi didn't want to vote then does not mean he's not helping. He could be using his time to actually gather evidence that can be used against other people.

@hida jiremi (Post #95): Glad to see someone actually making a case against Ryker aside from McFox. At this rate, I find him very scummy.

@Ryker (Post #96):

Now, McFox, I'm getting at you.

I ask you again, why didn't you do this when you made your bandwagon?

@Ryker (Post #97):

So good of you to defend your scummate then.

You are not helping here.

I said that people don't utilize RVS correctly.

No, you said that they didn't use it to the fullest. Now you're skimming your own post?

It does nothing to change the fact that he did immediately come to your defense.

That is ********. From the moment McFox said that an bandwagon on Swiss was unecessary to this said, Swiss has said litterally nothing. How could you have said that Swiss was coming to McFox's defense?

@Ryker (Post #104): Consider the fact that most of us are new to Mafia or at least the way Smash Boards plays Mafia. Metagaming is really isn't something that isn't used in Newbie Mafia games, so why should we force it?

@Ryker (Post #106):

He came to your defense by providing you an out. I would think that's fairly obvious.

Read the thread. By #87 by McFox, Swiss has still said absolutely nothing to anyone after his post.

@McFox (Post #107): I do agree with you, but two things I want to bring up:

1. You said that he was being unhelpful, yet you didn't say anything that really helped the newbies in your introduction post either. All you said was "Welcome newbies".

2. I also really doubt Ryker's vote on you was OMGUS. While I don't like Ryker's case on you, he made a very huge deal about you for the longest time. I really doubt that was an OMGUS on you, if it was, then he would have voted you after you voted him.

@Ryker (Post #109): I really wouldn't skip a post just because you think a post is too long. Just my suggestion.

@Swiss (Post #113, #114): Very good execution of offense and defense there. This shows confidence in your gameplay and it PROVES that Ryker is making false accustion and is trying to shove up suspicion on other people. Also like the fact that you asked previous non-posts a question.

@Ryker (Post #118):

If my arguments are so bad, what stopped you?

You do realize that he probably wasn't able to do it earlier due to the infamous period where Smash World Forums went down? You need to consider that.
Also, anyone who posts less then twenty-four hours a day in an Mafia game and doesn't really make much contribuation can be considered lurkers.
What also really ticks me off at your post is where you say that you don't tunnel. I call **** on that statement. You voted for Swiss four times and got into an massive argument against McFox, HUGE and OBVIOUS examples of tunneling.
I'd also like to add this:

1.)Agressive =/= Scummy. It's the ONLY way to generate meaningful discussion and I'm getting tired of hearing that it is when I'm the first person to make a move.

Congratulation for being an hypocrite. Earlier in the game, you said that bandwagons are the only way to gain lynches, now you say that you have to be aggressive to make meaniful discussions? And yes, being agressive isn't always scummy, but your case defindently isn't one of those good examples. I have a example of where an agressive player isn't scummy, but I'll tell in here or in a different game once that particular game has ended since I don't want to ruin it.

2.) They aren't narrow. There's just nothing else to focus on. You point out to me another player other than myself who you think is scum and I'll give you my opinion. Every time.[/quote]

You've focused enough on McFox and Swiss, now it's time to look at other suspects. Look at people who have been lurking a lot and barely contributed to the game and may be you might be able to push a decent case on that particular person (Please note that I will be looking more into other people later, but I will).

@SwordRbroken (Post #133):

I disagree. If you had an experienced person who is useless (like handorin) vs an inexperienced newbie that is helpful, i would go with the newbie. It is true in some cases however.

I find this relatively scummy. Why would you want to lynch a newbie that is helpful? Basically, that means you want to lynch an town read. This also can diminish the chance of an relatively promising newbie to expand his skills level in later Mafia games, since they'll think Mafia is too hard for them. The amount of experience a person has with Mafia games should not determind if they should be lynched or not. If you had to choose between a experienced player with a scum read to an newbie player with an townie read, you go with the scum read.

Explain why we should lynch an helpful newbie, but not an useless experienced player.
However, I will admit that your first paragraph was good, but still, I'm not liking the post.

@Ryker (Post #137):

2.) Criticism is what leads to improvement, so I don't see what's wrong with criticism.

Your playstyle, in my opinion, does not suit well with the newbie enviroment and is very, very discouraging. Had it not been for McFox and Swiss to stand up against you, most likely that no one else would have done the same.

@rPSI (Post #157):

In fact, I'm fine with your vote one me

Why would you want a vote on yourself? Nobody, and I mean, nobody, wants a vote on himself. In this game, unless you're scum, we are on our own.

@rPSI (Post #162): Just beacause a person has been prodded doesn't mean that person is an likely scum. He could just be an uninterested player.

@ViatminC/Clownbot (Post #165):

Not much I can say about Ryker, however. There's something in his posts that make me uneasy as to his intentions.

Look at all of his posts during the Ryker Vs. McFox and Swiss. In my opinion, they were oozing with scumminess.

@rPSI (Post #180):

Unvote; Vote: Hidajiremi

Scum actions are scummy.

Elaborate on why Hidajiermi was scummy. Did vanderzant influence that decision? Why is it scummy?

@rPSI (Post #191): [quote-"rPSI"]Oh, I'm definitely not lying back. I'm really trying to get everyone to talk so they can be read easier later in the game, which is much more helpful to town, because day 1 will always be basically a random vote.[/quote]

I beg to differ. You haven't really posted a lot of contents in your posts and you've been relatively scummy lately. Active, yes, but you haven't really posted much. I also really didn't like some of your posts lately. Not to mention you aren't very useful to town. The most scummy part is where you said that Day 1 was basically Random Voting Day. That is wrong, as you can gather a lot of information out of just Day 1 and so far, this has been the case in this game.

@rPSI (Post #195):

That is not at all my stance. Day 1 is not a random vote for the sake of random voting, it is a random vote because there is no true way to determine who is scum and who isn't. We only have "vibe's" to base this off of and a little bit of playstyle with it. Of course on Day 1 the people that do more lurking and really active ones are going to seem suspicious.

But surely, we can gather evidence off of this. Not giving out information like you've been doing for the most part is scummy. I'd also like to add that I dislike the fact that really active players in your opinion are going to be suspicious? If they play good, the chances of that happening is low, so that makes no sense.

@rPSI (Post #204): What The Guide and VitaminC were doing is passive lurking. Passive lurking is where they are relatively inactive in the game. You are doing active lurking. Active lurking is being active in the game, but not posting much substance in your posts.

So in your opinion, who is more detrimental to town? Me or Vitamin C?

You, for the lack of contributation in the game, despite being relatively active. At least with VitaminC, it's was a good idea to replace him with an more active member (Clownbot). You have been active, but right now, you aren't looking very good in my eyes.

@rPSI (Post #216): What an awful reason for voting a person. The only really suspicious thing I see about him is his lurking. You've done a lot more scummy things then him and I find no good reasons for voting him out.

@rPSI (Post #221):

How are we going to find scum after Day 1 you ask? You get legitimate reads. Having an entire Day 1 and the majority of Day 2 can get you more than just vibes, it can get you serious scum reads.

You did not answer vanderzant's question. He said how are we going to get any closer to lynching scums on Day 2 if we lynch a lurker on Day 1. Trying to do all that would be difficult to do and increase the possibility of an scum win, something that town can't afford.

@rPSI (Post #234): No, fluff is defined as a post that lacks in contributation and doesn't help the game at all, which is what your post is mostly contained of.

@rPSI (Post #245): You have been mostly useless throughout the game, made some scummy posts, and trying to make excuses for your mistakes.

@vanderzant (Post #250): Okay, not really liking this post. I'll break down the parts I don't like:

Do you think we really have enough time left to lynch Frohawk?

Right now I think the tally is:

rPSI: 4
Vitamin C: 2
Frohawk: 2
Ryker: 1
McFox: 1
SwordDancer: 1

In the event that nobody is prepared to lynch Frohawk, would both of you (Ryker & The_Guide) be prepared to change your vote to rPSI or VC, depending on who has more support?

You say that we didn't have enough time to vote xxFrohawkxx, yet xxFrohawkxx has the exact same amount of votes at the time as did VitaminC. You also said that if they were going to be prepared to vote rPSI or VC. There is no problem trying to go for an xxFrohawkxx lynch at the time and I'm glad that the lynch was successful, given that xxFrohawkxx fliped scum.

@Swiss (Post #248):

@ Anyone - What would come first, Vitmain being replaced or the deadline for the lynch?l

We all know the answer now, since Clownbot replaced VitaminC. I would have said the same thing since he hasn't posted in days.

@Kataefi (Post #282 and #285): Then why did it take two days instead of one to get your case in? It's good, but it should not have taken that long.

@The Guide (Post #289): I don't think we should look at the voters yet. All those voters could be townies for all we know. I prefer looking for people who suspect him, but never really called him out on it.

@Ryker (Post #294): What's wrong with an scum lynch? Sure he prematurely ended Day 1, but there is no reason to become suspicious of hidajiremi just because of this. The fact that we had an scum lynch indicates nothing suspicious about him.

@McFox (Post #312): Most of your post has been explaining what WIFOM is, yet you voted for Sworddancer. What is the purpose of that if you aren't going to explain it?

@rPSI (Post #318): OMG, you made an townie post! Like about time.
On #327, I introduced myself to the game. I'll continue my massive quote-fest, thought:

@The Guide (Post #330): You were the first person to say that xxFrohawkxx should be lynched, now you're trying to say that we need to agree that he didn't do WIFOM? We shouldn't defend dead scums in the game, especially if they were as useless as xxFrohawkxx himself.

@SwordRbroken (Post #336): That's showing uncommitment to the game, one of the main reason why scum wins. I'd like for you to press an complelling argument against someone who you think is the most scummy.

@vanderzant (Post #339):

Additionally, SSBF I know you've just jumped into the game, but I'd like you to give your thoughts on myself as soon as possible.

More on that when I make an general analysis on everyone below.

@Xiivi (Post #342): Just realized that I had my vote on vanderzant. LOL, I'll Unvote. More on that later.

@Gheb_01 (Post #343, #346, and #348): Those three posts were absolutely useless. You gave absolutely no reason why you voted for Kataefi and it almost sounds like an random vote if you didn't clarify that you thought he was scum. Still, the lack of explination was really patehic.

@The Guide (Post #350): Okay, so this is what I'm getting. You want rPSI lynched today, but you unvoted him. If you think he's the lynch today, you shouldn't be afraid of putting him at L-2 already.

@The Guide (Post #356): I personally didn't find anything that warrant an vote on vanderzant now. I've already unvoted.

@The Guide (Post #369): Not exactly very helpful. Newbies are most likely not going to commit a long time to read the site. If I were you, I would have linked not only the main page, but the rules, roles, commonly used abbreviation, and among other things you consider useful.

@Ryker (Post #396):

Why do you say my bandwagon on Swiss was unnecessary. It accomplished it's purpose admirably and I'm very satisfied with the results. You tell me why it was unnecessary.

Yes it did bring us out of RVS, but at the time, Swiss had said absolutely nothing scummy at the time. Now you did use the same gameplay in Smash Bros. Mafia, but the difference was that you weren't going after anyone and it was basically RVS, but with your annoying votes on Vrael without explaination, you jumpstart us in Smash Bros. Mafia, which I do apperciate. However, in this, you were in an middle of an argument against McFox. You should have used the oppertunity then to vote for McFox. People would have an much better time believing you and McFox might have gotten lynched now. Choosing Swiss was a poor choice on your behalf and as a result, that backfired on you, putting you in danger of a lynch back then.

Why is RQS possibly a good thing. I've explained why it's an abomination. Defend it then, and while your at it, how is my opinion of RQS a scum tell?

RQS allows for less mislynches to happen, as it require players to actually think before voting. It's also semi-serious and a great way to get a discussion started. On top of that, we gather more information on RQS in the long run and eventually, it can provide pressure.

Why it is an scum tell? You outright dismissed the benefits of an RQS. Also, you say that it doesn't provide any pressure, but eventually, it will once someone post something very scummy. We can build off of that and you could still gain the results that you desire.

@Clownbot (Post #398): Don't worry about it. It wasn't directed at you at all.
And with that, this ends this massive responding post.

We need to look at xxFrohawkxx's lynch more. People are going after people who voted for him, but I'd rather not do that (That does not change the fact that I'm still supicious of Ryker, rPSI, and The Guide).

At the end of Day 1, these people did not vote for xxFrohawkxx. They are McFox, Sworddancer (Not looking into him, since I replaced him and it would be pointless to look at the person whom I replaced), Clownbot, and Swiss. I'll see the connection between McFox, Clownbot, and Swiss:

I'll start at xxFrohawkxx outlandish post at #238 and end at where xxFrohawkxx was revealed as a scum in #280. So I'll be looking at each person individually.

McFox: He never posted during the time, so no read from me.

Clownbot:

I'd say so, due to his lack of contribution and infrequent posting.

It looks like Frohawk is definitely the lynch toDay but I think we should look at PSI as one of our main suspects Tomorrow.

Both times, he said that xxFrohawkxx was the lynch today, but he lacked the willingness to vote for him when it was clearly obvious that xxFrohawkxx was about to be lynched.

Swiss: This guy really strikes a connection with xxFrohawkxx. I'll quote all of his posts from #238 to #280:

I agree with that.

Frohawk, what do you have to say about this?

FoS Frohawk.

Keeping my vote on rPSI as he is yet to make a post that isn't wishy washy and fluffy.

Wow, this moved fast.

OK, I am willing to put a vote on frohawk, but will leave it until he's tried to defend himself, no point hammering with a day left to find out more, right?

Latest I can hammer is 6 hours before the deadline when I go to bed, which would be 01:00 GMT or 20:00 EST, that's four hours before the deadline, assuming I stay up that late. (Someone better check that working out).

Thing is, if Frohawk does post, do we still lynch him? Otherwise we'll be stuck with a no lynch (and scum could easily halt the bandwagon on the new lynch target by 'not seeing the thread in time')... unless seven of us quickly re-vote we won't get a lynch today. What do people think?

Fro needs to post ASAP to save himself.

I'm awake for another hour, can anyone confirm they will be able to hammer after this but BEFORE the deadline?

First, he puts an FoS on Frohawk, then said he's willing to hammer mutliple times, and then he said that he wants someone to hammer after he goes to bed but before the deadline. The fact that he does not lynch Frohawk, but stated multiple times he would sends an red flag of scumminess to me. Sure he is an good player, but it's really scummy that he put off the lynch for almost too long.

The one with the most connection to xxFrohawkxx is Swiss and I think we need to look at his posts more.

Now to top this post off, my opinion on everyone who is still alive:

Hidajiermi/Gheb 01: Hidajiermi wasn't too active, but I was really liking his post, thus bring him up to an town read. However, Gheb 01 hasn't been as good. I really didn't like his previous cop out for why he voted Kataefi. I currently have an null read on him, leaning toward townie.

Vanderzant: He is an very strong town player here. Posts usually have a lot of contents, he is very active, and defends himself well against others who opposed him at the beginning of Day 2. So far, only one scummy post has come out of him.

The Guide: He was okay during Day 1, but I really did not like his lack of contribution to the game during the time UNTIL he voted for xxFrohawkxx. However, he's gotten worse since then. He activity is decent, but some of his posts has been very scummy. I have an fairly scummy read on the person.

VitaminC/Clownbot: VitaminC was utterly useless and Clownbot has a small connection with xxFrohawkxx. However, he is currently doing solid on his own, being reasonably active, asking good questions, and not many fluffy posts to go around. I give him an slight town read.

rPSI: Not looking very good either. He managed to become my top lynch canddiate since he was not very useful in the game in Day 1. There is also a fair amount of contradictions from him and he has also been hypocritical. Remember when he said that he hated fluffs? Yeah, he's done a lot of that. Day 2, he's been okay, but I still find him very scummy.

Swiss: Has been a very good player in the game. However, what I don't like from him is his obvious connection with xxFrohawkxx, which makes me suspicious from him. We need to look at this player more. Currently has an null read from me.

SwordsRBroken: Helpful in the game and has done some good scumhunting. I'd also like to add that he's been fairly active. I did find one post scummy, thought. Nevetheless, he has an slight town read from me.

Kataefi: Currently has an null read from me. He hasn't really posted much, but I've found nothing particularly scummy about him. However, he is leaning towards townie since he's been posting a lot lately and that's what I like from players.

McFox: He was starting to give an scummy read from me, but his succesful argument at Ryker, his activeness, and the fact that he's been helpful gives me an town read from him. Keep it up McFox!

Ryker: Still fairly scummy in my eyes. He was horrible in his massive argument against McFox and Swiss. He contradicts himself, he went after Swiss without any good reasons, he was very narrow in suspects, and that he was unhelpful during those periods. However, he has improved during the game, so he's no longer my top suspect. I still have my eyes on him, thought.
If I were to decide how I would rank these players, I would rank them from most townie to most scummy. Here is my ranking:'

1. Vanderzant (Probable Town read)
2. McFox (Probable Town read)
3. SwordRbroken (Possible town read)
4. VitaminC/Clownbot (Possible town read)
5. HidaJiermi/Gheb 01 (Null read)
6. Kataefi (Null read)
7. Swiss (Null read)
8. Ryker (Possible scum read)
9. rPSI (Probable scum read)
10. The Guide (Probable scum read)

Now it's time to place a vote. I had a hard time deciding between rPSI and The Guide. However, I'm willing to spare rPSI for now about the matter since his play has been OK recently. The Guide, however, has earned a lot of suspicon from me and I'm not
really impressed with him. So with that all said:

Vote: The Guide

 

[Xiivi]

Deadline for Day 2 has been set for April 27th, 2010 11:59AM EST.

It's takes 6/11 to lynch!
​

Day 2 Vote Count 4:

Clownbot: (0)
Gheb_01: (0)
​

Kataefi: Gheb_01 (

)
McFox: (0)
rPSI: Clownbot, Swiss, McFox (

)
Ryker: (0)
Swiss: (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan: SwordsRbroken (

)
SwordsRbroken: (0)
The_Guide: rPSI, Ryker, vanderzant, Super Smash Bros. Fan (

)
vanderzant: (0)
Not Voting: Kataefi, The_Guide (

)

Great Activity.

 

[Clownbot]

@Clownbot: On Day 1, you said that you would find a 3rd suspect. Given that xxFrohawkxx fliped scum, we now have only two. Who is that other suspect and why?

Right now I'd say Guide.

 

[Clownbot]

Because of his contradictions and stuff.

(sorry, forgot the why earlier )

 

[Kataefi]

so, swords - gheb is voting me/possibly psi based on the assumption I made a few posts back, how can you classify this as bull + parroting? How can you classify asking questions as such? you should get into specifics if you're persisting with this.

ssbf I'll get to your post next!

 

[Deleted member]

@SwordRbroken: Do you still find me susipicous or not? Either way, explain your reasons.

 

[McFox]

@McFox: Since the argument between you and Ryker is over, you seem to think he's town now. Why so?

I explained this pretty thoroughly, but to reiterate: it's my belief that were Ryker scum, he would not have gotten mad at me for stepping in front of Swiss like I did. He would've just gone with the flow. Yes, he did try to push my lynch briefly, which would be consistant with scum, however, his constant AtE's against me would not be consistant with scum play, in my opinion.

@McFox (Post #40): Why did you bypass xxFrohawkxx question? You have plenty of experience with Mafia games, so that means you must have some experience with RVS. What makes it especially uncalled for is that we've both played Newbie Mafia 5 and you never complained about Random Voting Stage. As a matter of fact, I thought you actually enjoyed it.

Something else that I have gone over, but again to reiterate, I do not like the notion that "This is the RVS part of the game, where you vote people for no reason!" I'd just rather the start of a game be more organic than that. I've been in several games where we almost immediately jumped into serious play, just because of something that happened early in D1 (cannot cite examples). But especially in a game for new players, when you say "This is RVS! Vote anyone for any or no reason!", you are circumventing an organic flow to the game, and telling new players that this is what they are supposed to do, which is not at all correct. As far as I remember, no one posted this specific attitude in NM5, and if they did I simply chose not to speak on it.

1. You said that he was being unhelpful, yet you didn't say anything that really helped the newbies in your introduction post either. All you said was "Welcome newbies".

Leading by example? I could write up a post on how to play mafia the size of this one that you've written, and still not touch on everything. There are links to basic rules and etc. in the first post that new players are supposed to have read, and Ryker and Swords had already given them an in into the game with "This is RVS!"

If they play good, the chances of that happening is low, so that makes no sense.

Not necessarily. The more you post, the more your words can be twisted to look scummy, no matter how well you play. Whereas if you don't post much, the most anyone might have against you is "Well, he didn't post much."

@McFox (Post #312): Most of your post has been explaining what WIFOM is, yet you voted for Sworddancer. What is the purpose of that if you aren't going to explain it?

I wanted to see dancer's reaction to an unexplained vote. Unfortunately, he didn't have much of a reaction at all.

McFox: He never posted during the time, so no read from me.

I was in Louisiana visiting family at the time.

And since Kev's not here to say it, I'll take his spot:

Posting a "Here's what I think of everyone" list just gives mafia a hitlist. We should be okay since you're only one person, but NO ONE ELSE SHOULD DO THIS.

For example, if everyone else posted a person-by-person analysis, and I ended up looking townie on a majority of people's lists, well that just tells mafia that they can kill me. Mafia wins the game through getting us to lynch other townies. Their night powers are secondary. So if they know that the town trusts a player and thus aren't going to be able to get that person mislynched, then that person will be killed at night.

If you want to do an analysis of players, you should ONLY do those that you have actual scum reads on. This should never be more than a few people, as it leaves the mafia guessing about what you think about the rest of the players, and makes them unsure as to who you actually trust.

 

[Swiss]

In response to the long SSBF post:

Apart from openly stating exactly what he thinks every player is (which I see now as pro mafia, if not scummy) is silly, I feel like I should respond to what SSBF said about me.

I deliberately didn't lynch Fro when I had the chance as I wanted him to post, sure I could have lynched him earlier, but that gives town less time to gather information. I honestly don't see how me waiting till we were close to the deadline to lynch is scummy (and as you quoted, I made it clear we pretty much had to lynch him anyway or no lynch, that's not a pro scum move, scum WANT people lynched). I was willing to lynch him, but I was lynching in a way that gave town more time.

Also, I don't feel what Ryker did to me was that scummy, he put me under pressure to see how I reacted, I've never been in RVS before and simply didn't realise all he was doing was forcing us out of the ******** "I vote for you as I don't like your name stage." 'Course, a smart scum would do that, and as Ryker IS an experienced player, he is in no way above suspicion imo.



I really don't like the unnecessary information you include such as answering questions that are A) Outdated and B) already answered. I also feel as if you've interpreted a lot of the game very differently to me. Not necessarily a bad thing, just...bizarre.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I find this relatively scummy. Why would you want to lynch a newbie that is helpful? Basically, that means you want to lynch an town read. This also can diminish the chance of an relatively promising newbie to expand his skills level in later Mafia games, since they'll think Mafia is too hard for them. The amount of experience a person has with Mafia games should not determind if they should be lynched or not. If you had to choose between a experienced player with a scum read to an newbie player with an townie read, you go with the scum read.

No, i meant as in i would lynch the vet player, not the newbie.

What is your opinion on the Random Question Stage? It is another way to get a game started where you basically ask random questions about who you are. Have you've ever played a game with Random Question Stage instead of the famous Random Voting Stage? What do you think is the best way to get a game started?

Honestly, i've never played a game with the RQS, mainly because it is almost never used. And like i said, i think that the RVS can be used to pressure someone into giving a reply, scummy or not. It really helps me get a read on that person.

And i will conclude by saying that you are not still on my scumlist, i just forgot to unvote. Dancer was just useless posting fluff, but you are at least trying to contribute something.

In the meantime, i will Vote: rPSI. THIS IS L-2 SO WATCH YOUR VOTES!

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Woah, massive post is massive.

Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out a better play-style, I seem to usually come across as scum even when I'm town. (ex. the last newb mafia). So I really hope my posts become more townie, with that said.

I sort of disagree with the fact that you think we need analyze Frohawks post. Right now, all it is, is Frohawk mentioning a lot of people and being "iffy" about them. He was basically trying to "keep his hand open" so he wouldn't be blamed for a lynch, so he had to basically say "Yay, no one's scummy IMO!" which is generally buddying with most people. However, there may be some merit in investing time to reread his posts later on, but he didn't really contribute or help anyone much because he didn't really post much.

 

[Deleted member]

Leading by example? I could write up a post on how to play mafia the size of this one that you've written, and still not touch on everything. There are links to basic rules and etc. in the first post that new players are supposed to have read, and Ryker and Swords had already given them an in into the game with "This is RVS!"

But that doesn't mean you could have at least given us some suggestions or asked a question. And you wouldn't have summerize the game up anyway, it's already been done at the very beginning of the thread.

Also, SwordsRbroken was not someone who said that RVS was an important part of the game, just Ryker. All he said that he prefered RVS to RQS and not really that much else. If it was more then that, then he probably would have been another central figure in the argument, but he's not.

I deliberately didn't lynch Fro when I had the chance as I wanted him to post, sure I could have lynched him earlier, but that gives town less time to gather information. I honestly don't see how me waiting till we were close to the deadline to lynch is scummy (and as you quoted, I made it clear we pretty much had to lynch him anyway or no lynch, that's not a pro scum move, scum WANT people lynched). I was willing to lynch him, but I was lynching in a way that gave town more time.

Yes delaying lynch gives more time for us to get information out, but if you're the one doing delaying the lynch, it should cause people to suspect you given that a scum is lynched. Now it would be fine if a townie was lynched, but I'm not going to let this fly since a scum was lynched.

Like I said before, I saw an decent connection between you two. On top of that, there was less then twenty-four hours left, so lynching early would not have made you anymore scummy and may have given you a pro-town image since you were a very good player.

@SwordsRbroken:

No, i meant as in i would lynch the vet player, not the newbie.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Also like to say thank you for answering my questions.

 

[vanderzant]

Is there anything to explain why Guide would last minute incriminate Fro and get him lynched?

Well...

If you play the devils advocate for a minute, you can see how a Fro bus would instantly boost TG's status in the game from "inactive lurker" to "townie who found scum." Frohawk's last post was incriminating enough, and it's highly likely that if TG hadn't called him out on his last post, another player would have.

Apart from the obvious "3 players are better than 2," Frohawk was theoretically as useless to Scum as he was to Town. Even if he wasn't lynched Day 1, there was a strong Town consensus that we should lynch lurkers if we have nothing better to act on. So scum would not of being able to defend him if this situation occurred. Considering this plus the fact that Frohawk wasn't doing a good job of defending himself, it isn't too far fetched to assume that bussing frohawk could be a very pro mafia move (especially with a role like the godfather who can't be found out via inspection).

This, coupled with TG's contradiction I explained above (that being on the Frohawk wagon isn't a defence, but I started the wagon so I'm town).

especially when Rpsi was a perfecty acceptable lynch target to begin with end of Day 1? It's unlikely to be Fro/Guide/Rpsi together because that wouldn't be an efficient bus.

Lol should of read your whole post. Sorry, I read the first sentence and started responding >.<.

I get what you're saying about the inefficient bus. Although at this stage, I think a TG/rPSI/Fro Mafia Team isn't that likely (considering how TG slammed rPSI today), a bus on rPSI would of been less than desirable, especially considering that your last team mate would be Fro (who'd acted scummy enough already).

I've generally liked rPSI a lot more today and most of my suspicions were based off of Day 1 play. I just feel that The_Guide's case has a lot more backing/merit at this stage of the game.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Yes delaying lynch gives more time for us to get information out, but if you're the one doing delaying the lynch, it should cause people to suspect you given that a scum is lynched. Now it would be fine if a townie was lynched, but I'm not going to let this fly since a scum was lynched.

I don't feel quite the same way. I feel that if a townie were lynched that it would be easy for a scum to say "hey, I'll kill @ X:XX" and say after the person flips town "oh well, I gave him a chance, there's no way in the world that I'm scum, it was obv someone else bussing." It's way too easy for a scum to pull that off, which is mainly why I'm really disliking The_Guide. The thing is, is that it will never benefit town, because if the person really thinks they're scum, they will lynch. Otherwise it's showing uncertainty.

 

[Xiivi]

Deadline for Day 2 has been set for April 27th, 2010 11:59AM EST.

It's takes 6/11 to lynch!
​

Day 2 Vote Count 5:

Clownbot: (0)
Gheb_01: (0)
​

Kataefi: Gheb_01 (

)
McFox: (0)
rPSI: Clownbot, Swiss, McFox, SwordsRbroken (

)
Ryker: (0)
Swiss: (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan: (0)
SwordsRbroken: (0)
The_Guide: rPSI, Ryker, vanderzant, Super Smash Bros. Fan (

)
vanderzant: (0)
Not Voting: Kataefi, The_Guide (

)

Great Activity.

 

[vanderzant]

Ok, good to see you contributing SSBF. Your analyses aren't too bad. A lot of stuff I noticed (mainly regarding Ryker) has already been answered/cleared up for the rest of us. So I wouldn't expect all of your points/questions to be answered by everyone, nor do I think that it is necessary or entirely relevant to the current discussion. Your points could prove useful for later on in the game, so good work.

@Vanderzant: Aside from rPSI and The Guide, do you have anyone else you consider suspicious?

I didn't like Dancer (while he was here) and was planning to pursue him very hard based on how he approached Day 2 (specifically, the case on me). Additionally, I didn't like the way SwordDancer was playing throughout the entire game. Even from the beginning of Day 1 his intentions/opinions were never very clear. I don't feel that he was truly convinced in people he votes/FOS's, and that this was an attempt to try and fly under the radar a bit. I started to get suspicious after he posted his case on me at the start of Day 2, but I didn't get a chance to confront him personally (he was then subbed out soon after).

IMO, scum are likely to be those who not only supported a case on me (because me getting lynched is a good result for scum), but who also try to "hide in the crowd" to an extent, so the rest of the town won't pin them when I flip town.

While SwordDancer quite often posted his own insights, it mainly just echoed those already brought up by the rest of the town. Even when he was the first to write an argument against me (which failed to convince me that he truly thought I was scum), he was echoing Ryker who had already labelled me as suspicious BEFORE frohawk was lynched, as well as Katefi (who voted and then gave reasons later on).

For a similar reason, I also find Kat to be quite suspicious. I noticed similar patterns between him and Dancer through Day 1, and there cases on me were kind of similar.

My reads on both Dancer and Kat were more based on an overall playstyle rather than specific contradictions/slips. Hence why I'm not pursuing them for now.

 

[vanderzant]

Yes delaying lynch gives more time for us to get information out, but if you're the one doing delaying the lynch, it should cause people to suspect you given that a scum is lynched. Now it would be fine if a townie was lynched, but I'm not going to let this fly since a scum was lynched.

Giving some one time to respond when they are about to be lynched is very Pro Town imo.