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Newbie Mafia #2: CAN THE NEWBIES STEP UP AND PLAY A SUCCESSFULE GAME?

The Phazon Assassin

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LOL I push a lynch on TUSM saying I find him the second most scummy play at the moment, mainly for his D1 antics of saying that there were "useless" townies and other posts that don't sit well with me.

And he says I'm getting defensive, says he's suspicious of me out of nowhere and votes me.

Interesting idea TUSM, OMGUS or crumble scum?
This coming from the person who first disagreed with me, then the next Day, votes for Air, stating the EXACT same reasons I mentioned before? And I don't think saying "I'm suspicious of these people. What do you think?" is exactly pushing for a lynch. I'll bring up Kirbyoshi again. He voted for him rather quickly and never left him alone, putting constant pressure on him. I never said he was defensive before. I said he got rather quiet as of lately, just waiting to see what others think, which is NOT the playstyle he was utilizing before. If you don't see that, then you're blind.

I voted for Kevin to see his reaction, which doesn't really offer much. And, as I said, Mentos as the SK was really just a random guess. I mean, hunting for an indie role isn't the same as looking for mafia.

But, if everyone's thinking that Mentos is mafia, then I can ask you all the same question. Why are YOU pushing for a Mentos lynch if we need to take out the SK?
 

Omni

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I have already said Mentos is the play. I think he's SK and you're scum. I don't know if Kevin is your partner simply because I can't make a judgment call on Teran since he's not posting.
 

The Phazon Assassin

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You just did exactly what I thought you would do. Just sit back, hope no one puts any blame on you, and attack the first person everyone thinks is scummy. If you really think Mentos is mafia, why come after me when everyone else seemed to have agreed that Mentos was the guy to go after? Is it because you're trying to protect your partner in crime for another night? Also, Air wasn't the only person you voted for because they were useless:

Vote Kirbyoshi

Your wish washy generalizations don't do any more help then Airgemini being dead quiet.
Again, you vote for someone's "uselessness," but accuse me of doing the same thing. Both the people you pushed a lynch for came up town, and now he's trying to do it on the third Day.

I'm doing what I can to clear my name. If none of these reasons are enough to even look at Kevin as mafia, then town deserves to lose.
 

KevinM

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Actually no it wasn't thought it was.
Vote: Mentos

Just because I have my vote on someone doesn't mean I can't pusha nother person for being scummy.
 

Omni

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I still think Mentos is SK and TUSM is Mafia, however, if Mentos flips Mafia I will have to reconsider things. A Mentos/Kevin team is very possible from what I've gathered during my rereads. I also couldn't find any kind of connection between Mentos and TUSM.

Teran is ****ing things up for us with his inactivity. If we lose because of him I'm going to **** bricks.

Vote: mentosman

Marshy. Tusm. It's your call.
 

mentosman8

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Well, I'm at work so I can't really say much, and I still haven't heard a single strong argument for my lynch, so yeah. Now it's just waiting for the scum to hammer. While I'm posting, I'm going to go ahead and vote: Kevin. So, if by some off chance killer hits maf and the maf hits killer tonight(if even one of them misses the other side it's game over), keep that in mind.

Since this may be my last post before I'm dead, just want to point out to the SK you NEED to hit a mafia tonight to have a shot at winning. You hit town its GG. Town, you either need to change your vote or hope beyond all hope that the two killing factions cross shoot.

Finally as my last appeal, Marshy, can you please explain to me why my lack of voting is such a scumtell? I've put my vote on every time prior to the lynch, because I thought it was a good choice, so it's not like I'm hiding my decisions. I have actively voiced suspicions throughout the days, so why is it so much of a difference if I end my suspicions with a vote earlier or later? Why don't we consider kevin who pushed for a lynch on air for no strong reason D1, and opened d2 with saying there was no question who he'd vote. I've been actively trying to scumhunt all game, kev has pushed the SAME LYNCH since the joke vote stage, which ended up on a townie, and piggybacked on reasons to vot me that are, quite honestly, pretty weak. I appeal to you solely because I think Kevin is scum, and not quite as sure on you but you started the suspicion on me and may be able to change minds.
 

#HBC | marshy

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no one hammer mentos just yet. i think it's him or tusm. need to dwell on this
 

#HBC | marshy

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mentos brings up some good points. my main qualm is his reasoning for not using his vote as much. that is, he claims it's because of the quicklynch he saw in newbie 1 but the way town has acted here i thought it'd be clear that such a situation wouldn't happen. in fact i thought town was too timid to vote d1 and we almost ended up with a no-lynch

kevin how do you go from:
If Mentos is SK, that would be interesting.

But I believe he's scum and then we play on TUSM.
to
Notice my vote is on Mentos, I'm saying your next in line.
this does seem like scum excited to force a mislynch. however you've been pushy for people being lynched which is what i'm used to from a townie kevin

also where's teran? he has yet to even post toDay and we're at -1 on somebody. i'd rather not end up mislynching someone and find out that he coasted his way to victory. teran who are your main suspects?

macman prod teran yo

kevin/mentos
teran
tusm
 

#HBC | marshy

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Since this may be my last post before I'm dead, just want to point out to the SK you NEED to hit a mafia tonight to have a shot at winning. You hit town its GG. Town, you either need to change your vote or hope beyond all hope that the two killing factions cross shoot.
and yeah quoting this to emphasize how important it is for the sk to hit scum. you'll lose otherwise
 

KevinM

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mentos brings up some good points. my main qualm is his reasoning for not using his vote as much. that is, he claims it's because of the quicklynch he saw in newbie 1 but the way town has acted here i thought it'd be clear that such a situation wouldn't happen. in fact i thought town was too timid to vote d1 and we almost ended up with a no-lynch

kevin how do you go from:to
this does seem like scum excited to force a mislynch. however you've been pushy for people being lynched which is what i'm used to from a townie kevin

also where's teran? he has yet to even post toDay and we're at -1 on somebody. i'd rather not end up mislynching someone and find out that he coasted his way to victory. teran who are your main suspects?

macman prod teran yo

kevin/mentos
teran
tusm
I don't understand where you're coming from to be honest. I've been saying the play was mentos so much I didn't realize I hadn't voted him. A mistake yes but an understandable one.

And yes I said if Mentos was SK it would be interesting because I have Mentos/TUSM as partners.

It would mess up my goggles on the game, is that was what was interesting?

Basically an elaboration would be nice.
 

#HBC | marshy

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i didn't think it was suspicious that that you didn't have a vote on mentos (you voted him next post) it was that you seemed to think that he was scum but voted him anyway when we need to go for the sk?

or were you saying "scum" as a blanket for all anti-town roles? because i think it's hard to distinguish sk from scum at this point
 

mentosman8

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Ok, I actually got a lot of my thoughts out in that phone post from work, so I don't have too much to add. However, I do agree with Marshy on the fact that it seems strange that knowing if we don't lynch the SK we're leaving things up to a game of chance, that you would want to vote someone you think is mafia. I've given numbers that make this obvious, so I don't see why you would be targeting someone who, if you were right, would give the town's chance at victory to the hope that maf shoots SK or vice-versa.

Now, I've tried to defend myself as best I can, but I want to put this out there: Why is my lack of voting my suspicions early scummy? I have been actively making accusations on those I find suspicious all game, so it's not that you don't know where I stand. I've made sure to put a vote on lynches I thought were wise by the end, so it's not like I tried to push the lynch and keep off the vote tally to hide the fact that I supported the lynches, so what's the difference if I pressure vote early or if I pressure with questions, suspicions and vote when I'm set on a lynch?
 

#HBC | Mac

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Mid Page Vote Count:

[3]Mentosman: MenoUnderWater, KevinM, Omni
[1]KevinM: Tusm

[3] not voting: Marshy, Mentos, Teran [This non voting thing is completely useless]

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

The deadline is set for the last second of September 4th EST


Teran was prodded and says he will be able to post by tomorrow.
 

The Phazon Assassin

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Yeah, mentos has a vote on Kevin.

I honestly think someone should remove a vote from mentos. Anyone, mafia or SK can just come along and end toDay without a second thought.
 

Omni

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That's the point, TUSM. If anyone left were SK or Scum then the Day would have been over.
 

KevinM

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If Scum were smart they would have killed Mentos if he wasn't mafia and then ended the game in the night phase basically. But they haven't.

And yeah for the most part I tend to refer to mafia/anti-town roles as Scum.

Sorry Marshy I'll clarify from now on.
 

mentosman8

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Or, Kev, there's the other option that the mafia is already voting me. Also, if they just came up and hammered early, it would give the sk a solid choice for their shot tonight and mafia would have less of a chance to win during the night.
 

Teran

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Ok, sorry about not posting recently, been taking care of irl nonsense.

Anyway, Mentos' passivity does give him the air of SK. Still his general reluctance to vote could be seen as thoughtful and careful play, rather than the act of an indie laying low. I'm not going to hammer him at this point, and I'd prefer a bit more discussion before the final decision is made. Obviously though, it's in our best interests to get rid of the SK first.

Also, TUSM does seem to be acting scummy, since his sudden push on KevinM doesn't seem wholly justified. He called Kevin defensive, but I believe that Kevin's method of play has stayed consistent throughout the game. I'd actually call him aggressive. People might say that's a scumtell, but afaik, Kevin is generally an aggressive townie.

Still, I think everyone's said it thus far and I'll agree that our priority is weeding out the SK first. This is a pivotal vote too, so we can't really afford screw up.
 

Teran

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Oh **** forgot to mention, TUSM's push on the aggressive Kevin is somewhat suspicious, since that strikes me as the act of trying to remove the biggest threat.
 

KevinM

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Marshy, Teran, Omni: Can we agree the play is TUSM or Mentos?

If so can we get this going now.

I'm more for lynching Mentos. But we need to get this done to win or at least discuss this.
 

mentosman8

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Now see, I think the play is you Kevin. It's been made plainly obvious that we need to lynch the serial killer today to definitely have a tomorrow, yet you, in every post today, have focused in on who you think is scum, not even referencing the fact that it is by far the worse lynch to work on. It seems almost as if you want to hurry the lynch on me so people don't think about it and look for the SK. When Marshy calls you out on this(and following this next quote)

And yes I said if Mentos was SK it would be interesting because I have Mentos/TUSM as partners.

It would mess up my goggles on the game, is that was what was interesting?
He says it is interesting that you think I'm scum and yet are voting for me when the SK needs hit.

i didn't think it was suspicious that that you didn't have a vote on mentos (you voted him next post) it was that you seemed to think that he was scum but voted him anyway when we need to go for the sk?

or were you saying "scum" as a blanket for all anti-town roles? because i think it's hard to distinguish sk from scum at this point
Obviously, you had already said you thought I was scum, as the quote shows. However, he leaves an out in the situation for you, asking if you meant scum as all anti-town. This is kind of odd, as above you had blatantly stated that you thought I was mafia.

If Scum were smart they would have killed Mentos if he wasn't mafia and then ended the game in the night phase basically. But they haven't.

And yeah for the most part I tend to refer to mafia/anti-town roles as Scum.

Sorry Marshy I'll clarify from now on.
Now, here are two things I would like to point out. The second section is your response to Marshy's question above. So, you say you think I am a scum partner with TUSM, and when Marshy calls you out that we need to hit the SK, and leaves you the out for "meaning all anti-town roles." You say that you did mean all anti-town, which gives the inclination that you think I may be SK, but you clearly referred to me as believing I was mafia, so you answer the question in a good light that doesn't require a change on your opinion of me, as you never reference me.

Also, to the first part, as well as this next one,

That's the point, TUSM. If anyone left were SK or Scum then the Day would have been over.
Those are both fallacies. The mafia needs to kill AND have the SK hit town(a different town than them) to guarantee a win. More importantly, if a mislynch goes through today, the SK's best, and possibly only strong shot to win, is by shooting a mafia tonight, and not getting lynched tomorrow. So we have two options:

1. Mafia can't guarantee themselves a win with just a mislynch, they would need the lucky SK hit to win, and they could know the SK needs to hit them. If that was the case, they wouldn't want to rush the lynch, knowing it would put them in the forefront of the SK's mind tonight, and potentially the towns eyes if the game went to a tomorrow.

2. SK NEEDS to survive another lynch to win, so they wouldn't hammer a quicklynch making them an obvious lynch target if a tomorrow happened, essentially killing their chances at a victory.

A quicklynch today makes ANYONE look bad, so the two anti town factions wouldn't want to press suspicion on themselves knowing that a tomorrow is a possibility for the two maf, and a necessity for the SK, it neither means that maf/sk are voting me already, nor that they aren't, simply that it's in both their best interests to not quicklynch so it means absolutely nothing.
 

The Phazon Assassin

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I already made my points and it doesn't seem to have done anything but put more suspicion on me. I thought about hammering Mentos, but that wouldn't have helped at all.
 

Teran

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A hasty hammer vote is not my idea of smart.
There's still time, so hopefully a bit more will surface.
 

Teran

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FOS: Teran
Whatever.

If wanting a bit more justification for my vote is a suspicious action, then I think there's something wrong.

I could say the same back to you, but Mentos and TUSM seem to be more relevant to our interests.
 

mentosman8

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Yeah, if I end up getting lynched, my major FoS is Kevin. Teran starts to be helpful, and says he wants to see if anything new comes up, and Kevin puts an FoS on him. Coupled with what I said earlier, I think it's a very reasonable thing to conclude that he isn't town. Macman didn't have it as of the last update, so once again

(still)Vote: KevinM
 

#HBC | Mac

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Mid Page Vote Count:

[3]Mentosman: MenoUnderWater, KevinM, Omni
[1]KevinM: Tusm, Mentosman

[3] not voting: Marshy, Teran [This non voting thing is completely useless]

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

The deadline is set for the last second of September 4th EST
Prod: everyone
 

mentosman8

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Mac, I've got my vote on KevinM, you've missed it twice nowXD Third times a charm, Vote KevinM

Teran, Marshy, I think you can both agree Kevin is our best bet for SK. If you think I'm scum, well, I'll defend myself more tomorrow. For now we need to take out the SK, and Kevin is making it clear that he doesn't care town's only sure-fire way to have a tomorrow is by lynching the SK, by voting for someone who he has made it obvious he believes is part of a scum pair.
 

mentosman8

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I don't understand where you're coming from to be honest. I've been saying the play was mentos so much I didn't realize I hadn't voted him. A mistake yes but an understandable one.

And yes I said if Mentos was SK it would be interesting because I have Mentos/TUSM as partners.

It would mess up my goggles on the game, is that was what was interesting?

Basically an elaboration would be nice.
If you had read my post where I initially made my suspicion of you clear, you would know that I specifically pointed out this quote. You say you think I'm partners with TUSM, yet I'm the SK? Since when does the SK have a partner. Following that post, Marshy makes the point I just did:

i didn't think it was suspicious that that you didn't have a vote on mentos (you voted him next post) it was that you seemed to think that he was scum but voted him anyway when we need to go for the sk?

or were you saying "scum" as a blanket for all anti-town roles? because i think it's hard to distinguish sk from scum at this point
At that point, you had said you thought me and TUSM were partners, hence you thought we were the mafia. However, once Marshy points out that we need to go for the SK and leaves you the out of scum being for all anti-town roles, you change your tune abruptly from blatantly thinking I'm scum to

And yeah for the most part I tend to refer to mafia/anti-town roles as Scum.
And now you maintain that you think I'm anti-town in general. At first you are voting me saying you think I am mafia with TUSM, then when Marshy notes how we need to hit the SK while(I'm assuming) missing you calling out me and TUSM as a pairing, suddenly I'm just anti-town in general and you think I'm the SK enough to lynch me knowing even if I was scum you could be sealing the town a no-win situation.

I don't like the flip-flopping. I wasn't sure how to read you earlier in the game, as I didn't see any teams forming with you. Today, I decided to put some pressure on you as it seemed you were trying to lynch someone you made clear you thought was scum(and the only one who completely benefits from a mafia lynch is the SK at the current moment, town just goes to an almost unwinnable situation), and my suspicions of you being the SK have risen a lot. I think I should have paid more attention to you talking about Marshy's "If you're the SK claim" thing back on D1.
 

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Unvote

Re-reading the thread tomorrow for the last time.
 

Omni

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@Teran: I haven't been able to get a good read on you. Most of your comments have been statements that we agreed on earlier in the Day. Suffice to say, I'm not sure if I have ever seen you make a solid claim on anyone since the game began. Cruising, if you will. However, I still think you're town because I believe your reason for being inactive is because you're simply just inactive; not because you're scum.

Who do you think is the play, and why? The deadline is approaching and it is vital that everyone knows where everyone is coming from before we end this possible last Night.

@Marshy & Tusm: The same goes for you two.

I'll have my final verdict and reasonings here hopefully by tomorrow night.
 
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