Newbie Mafia 12 FMP Fumoffu!: Game over!

[Gatlin]

@All Newbies: Please talk about what experience with mafia you have Note there are also games called werewolves or witch hunt which are different names for mafia. This could include IRL mafia or chat mafia etc

Never played any sort of Mafia before, online or off.
Currently playing this game, and no other

Vote: Sworddancer.

 

[X1-12]

@X1 ...disagree, tentatively

I would guess, if someone were an inexperienced but reasonably smart scum, they would try to avoid direct discussion until someone slips up and they can capitalize on it

this is assuming
A) he's inexperienced, which i guess by the fact that he's not IC/SE and in a newbie game
B) he's at least reasonably smart, which i can guess from his profile (researcher and all)

minorFoS: Soren

I fully believe this post to be a town-tell. Firstly we should look at how I asked the question. It was a simple trap, but often proves effective for newbies. I said "Do you agree with me that:____?". In asking the question in this way, not only did I get the question answered, but I also gained information about how agreeable Fynal is.

One of the most important things to look at in mafia is intent. Looking at intent is often hard, but rewarding. A good place to start when looking for scummy intent is to think what each faction's goal is. Town have to actively catch scum, whereas scum only have to give the impression that they are town. Think about this whenever you analyse a post, when you see an action, think: "what could that player gain by doing that action as town/scum?" and use this to help influence your decision

Now if we take this and apply it to the game, firstly on how Fynal chooses not to agree with me despite being set up to. I believe this part to be a town-tell as scum, the intent is to look town and to survive, now think how easy it would be for scumFynal to agree with me, look as though he is contributing, and look good in my eyes because he agrees with me. Instead of doing this, Fynal disagrees, and posts his sound (if somewhat underdeveloped (no offence)) reasoning as to why he disagrees with me. The way he responded shows us that he has genuinely logically thought though his answer which in turn indicates that he's town because he is actively moving town towards their goal.

Now some of you could dispute what I just said, but the main point of that was to teach you a little bit about mafia, you now know about intent, and how to apply it. You should now be all a bit better at analysing posts - I'm not suggesting you write out your thoughts like that as I did for everything you see, but you can analyse like that in your head, and post the main thoughts/stances in thread, with clear and concise reasoning.

"So is Fynal town or not?" Well I'd answer yes to this question, obviously in mafia, reads (opinions on someone's alignment) can and should be fluid and movable as with each new post, more information is available to inform our decisions. At the moment I have a strong town read on Fynal. While its possible that he faked that townie intent, I find it unlikely. I don't believe him to be capable of such a thing. He could have been coached or told to say it, but I find it unlikely due both to how fast he responded to my question, and how the reasoning he posts looks exactly as how I'd expect newbie town to think.



OK I feel I'm waffling a little bit because I'm tired. But before I go to sleep:

@All: I'd like to hear your thoughts on Fynal. Do you agree with me, do you disagree? Explain your thoughts. After you have done that I'd like you to do your best to pick the player who is your top scumpick - the most scummy player in your eyes - and give a brief explanation as to why they are scum, quote or link specific posts if necessary

 

[X1-12]

also inb4 gova calls deja vu

 

[Seikend]

I agree with a Fynal town read but I disagree with it being a strong town indicator.

It's a promising start, but it is only a minor FoS. Scum can also point out scummy actions without actively pushing for a lynch.

It's a minor town read for me.

@X1 Should I re-explain my suspicion of Swords or give my next most scummy player?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Still v/la until Monday. Just have some time right now.

@X1: Eh, neither. I've been wrong about both of you too many times to be able to say that I can really "read" any of you two accurately.

@Bluespot: If I'm your number 1 pick, then why haven't you voted me?

I'll talk about the suspicion against me once Gova/Kuz does the analysis that X1 requested.

 

[asianaussie]

@X1: What I've said is probably the reasoning of a million mafia newbies who've come before.

I'm not convinced with your decision on Fynal, based on two points.

While it's true that what he says masks intent and move town towards their goal, scum could just as easily do so in order to lower suspicion on them. In this particular instance, assuming that Fynal is scum, what he said has convinced you otherwise. I've seen instances of Fynal posting very intelligently outside of these forums, so it is quite possible he is one of these 'reasonably smart scum' he alludes to.

The other point concerns how early a stage of the game we are in. If you are both going off Blacknight99923's post, a markedly random one, I'm honestly unsure as to how valid any reasoning from such a post is. While his credentials make me consider the possibility of that post having a directed purpose (Researcher status, his avatar), I honestly can't make a real decision at the moment.

That said, Fynal or Gatlin are my picks as scum. You've presented a legitimate case for Fynal not being scum, so I'm going to say that Gatlin is scum. His post was short and almost obligatory. While it was a response to a legitimate question, choosing that post and not engaging the the (at that time) current discussion suggests an unwillingness to type more than he had to, minimising whatever chances one could read scum from his diction, etc. It also caused the post to go under the radar. His low post count suggests that other activity was not the reason for his brief response. Certainly, no further discussion has come concerning him at the moment.

Vote: Gatlin

 

[ranmaru]

@Sworddancer. -> I don't know about your accusations. I mean don't you think that Adumb is smart enough not to choose one of the IC players as scum seeing as that is the most obvious choice. Now while we are newbies we are not a group of idiots. And that line of reasoning that you are laying down seems pretty darn scummy to me.
And such it is with great displeasure that I have to say that you are my top pick for the scum of the day.
Now seeing as we still have 12 RWdays left till the end of this day, I shall refrain from casting my vote, in the hopes that you may lay down the smack and convince me otherwise.

I agree that one of the IC's can hold the alignment as scum, as I have played a previous newbie, and we lost to an IC. In fact it was X1, but this does not mean it would be %100. So we do have to be wary of everyone. I do think it would be normal for some people to be paranoid about the IC's possibly being scum, but as scum people will try to use their powers against them. (In my newbie, I was scum and always tried to get people against the IC's for pressuring a newbie to the point of cracking, and in a second newb, the IC took control of the town as scum and dominated, so it is situational) I would assume that the Mod has randomly assigned roles, but I do not see it in the first post.

How is Sword's line of reasoning scummy? Why would you wait for him to get back to you so you can THEN vote?

Vote: TBS

Ranmaru/kuz scum team Swords? Yeah, I can see that

@Fynal

OMGUS = OMG u suck, which refers to player A voting player B solely because player B voted player A

FoS = Finger of Suspicion, it's not something recorded like a vote, but just shows that you are suspicious of someone

It isn't good to scumhunt on pairs without a flip, because if you are half correct and lynch scum, the other who may be town is doomed to be lynched the next DaY because of their connections together. So for now try to find scum individually, and then after the flip, try to look for connections from that. If a lurker or someone who has not put their head in the game, would have low connections, and if lynched, wouldn't be a good suspect for a scum pair.

I fully believe this post to be a town-tell. Firstly we should look at how I asked the question. It was a simple trap, but often proves effective for newbies. I said "Do you agree with me that:____?". In asking the question in this way, not only did I get the question answered, but I also gained information about how agreeable Fynal is.

One of the most important things to look at in mafia is intent. Looking at intent is often hard, but rewarding. A good place to start when looking for scummy intent is to think what each faction's goal is. Town have to actively catch scum, whereas scum only have to give the impression that they are town. Think about this whenever you analyse a post, when you see an action, think: "what could that player gain by doing that action as town/scum?" and use this to help influence your decision

Now if we take this and apply it to the game, firstly on how Fynal chooses not to agree with me despite being set up to. I believe this part to be a town-tell as scum, the intent is to look town and to survive, now think how easy it would be for scumFynal to agree with me, look as though he is contributing, and look good in my eyes because he agrees with me. Instead of doing this, Fynal disagrees, and posts his sound (if somewhat underdeveloped (no offence)) reasoning as to why he disagrees with me. The way he responded shows us that he has genuinely logically thought though his answer which in turn indicates that he's town because he is actively moving town towards their goal.

Now some of you could dispute what I just said, but the main point of that was to teach you a little bit about mafia, you now know about intent, and how to apply it. You should now be all a bit better at analysing posts - I'm not suggesting you write out your thoughts like that as I did for everything you see, but you can analyse like that in your head, and post the main thoughts/stances in thread, with clear and concise reasoning.

"So is Fynal town or not?" Well I'd answer yes to this question, obviously in mafia, reads (opinions on someone's alignment) can and should be fluid and movable as with each new post, more information is available to inform our decisions. At the moment I have a strong town read on Fynal. While its possible that he faked that townie intent, I find it unlikely. I don't believe him to be capable of such a thing. He could have been coached or told to say it, but I find it unlikely due both to how fast he responded to my question, and how the reasoning he posts looks exactly as how I'd expect newbie town to think.



OK I feel I'm waffling a little bit because I'm tired. But before I go to sleep:

@All: I'd like to hear your thoughts on Fynal. Do you agree with me, do you disagree? Explain your thoughts. After you have done that I'd like you to do your best to pick the player who is your top scumpick - the most scummy player in your eyes - and give a brief explanation as to why they are scum, quote or link specific posts if necessary

He hasn't done anything scummy yet, and he hasn't scumhunted there, he has only given his thoughts on inexperienced scum and what they would do. It's null to me.

 

[JTB]

Ran, I'm not seriously considering you to be scummates with Swords (or you to be scum), it was just a RVS joke.

I would've figured you would give me a bit more credit since we played all that aimafia together.

 

[JTB]

EBWOP

scummates with kuz, not swords

 

[ranmaru]

Ran, I'm not seriously considering you to be scummates with Swords (or you to be scum), it was just a RVS joke.

I would've figured you would give me a bit more credit since we played all that aimafia together.

No I know it was RVS.

Although I wanted to touch on pairing.

 

[JTB]

To comment on X1's read on Fynal, I have to disagree. Fynal also comes off as null to me due to his lack of scumhunting. His post was simply answering some questions presented by X1, so it wasn't something that he was doing of his own initiative.

Soren comes off as a bit scummy in my eyes, I thought it was pretty clear that when X1 asked for his thoughts, X1 wanted to know what his thoughts towards the game, not just whatever was actually on his mind. And as goes with X1's definition of town, he isn't helping town towards their wincon.

So for now

unvote
vote Blacknight99923

 

[ranmaru]

I would hope he meant that as a v/la statement, but it's null because he probably didn't understand how serious X1's question was, or could have simply said that to lay low. We can't know of the latter unless he can explain. He said that Yesterday, so hopefully he can explain soon.

If he doesn't come in soon and coasts, we can simply replace him.

 

[Gatlin]

@asianaussie: Valid point, that's true that I did not give any reasoning behind my voting. The reason I voted Sworddancer. is because I viewed him as trying to steer the attention in another direction. Obviously if he were scum, he wouldn't want people's attention to be on him. By pointing the finger at X1-12 and Kuz, it draws more attention towards them than himself. Plus, he made no attempt to try and persuade people that he is not scum. X1-12 and Kuz being DGame frequents, I get the feeling that they have a fairly large chance at being scum, so obviously it makes me agree with his accusation. Thinking further, that is probably what he wanted me to think, so gotta go with my gut and go against his accusation.

 

[Seikend]

@Mod I'll be on V/LA from the 8th of April to the 15th of April, visiting family. Is this okay?

 

[Blacknight99923]

what exactly does IC, and scum mean?

 

[Seikend]

what exactly does IC, and scum mean?

IC is inexperience challenged. Basically, it's the more experienced players, the veterans.

Scum is another way of saying Mafia member.

 

[Fynal]

This might help in future
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Abbreviations

this helped me a lot

 

[Fynal]

@Sworddancer. -> I don't know about your accusations. I mean don't you think that Adumb is smart enough not to choose one of the IC players as scum seeing as that is the most obvious choice. Now while we are newbies we are not a group of idiots. And that line of reasoning that you are laying down seems pretty darn scummy to me.
And such it is with great displeasure that I have to say that you are my top pick for the scum of the day.
Now seeing as we still have 12 RWdays left till the end of this day, I shall refrain from casting my vote, in the hopes that you may lay down the smack and convince me otherwise.

from townTBS's point of view, this post makes no sense to me. Why would he accuse swords of being scum, post his reasoning, and then pointedly not vote? Even if he does actually want to give swords a chance, why not let him have his chance in the 8ish days after swords is off v/la?the only townie rational i can see for this is that TBS legitimately believes swords is scum, but is afraid of swords backlashing/NKing him, so wants other people to start voting first. There are two problems with this:

A) swords has, at best, a minor scum read on him. what TBS is referring to was one of the first posts on D1.
B) unless i seriously misunderstand this, not voting for people you think are scum and hoping someone else will is a bad strategy in general.

on the other hand, from scumTBS's point of view, this post could work. TBS chooses swords, a guy whose declared v/la, and accuses him of scummage. Instead of voting, he waits for sword's (belated) reply. By doing so, he gives himself and to some extent everyone else a pretense for searching sword's next few posts for scum, while making himself appear to be contributing. two other things go into this:

A) TBS's language. he says "we" twice, speaking for all of us noobs, and also [ill not vote for you yet] "in hopes that you can convince me otherwise". These are subtle but apparent town claims in my mind, though i'v explained why i don't think he's town.
B) His posting frequency. TBS has posted exactly one content post, the one i quoted, despite various other discussions. Its not like he's absent either, i'v seen his name listed at the bottom of the screen (as i do now) and he did answer soup's hydra question. I dont know what he's waiting for but this sort of minilurking looks scummish.

I can't find scum on X1 that can't be explained as him legitly advising us noobs

Unvote
Vote: TheBlueSpot

 

[JTB]

I would hope he meant that as a v/la statement, but it's null because he probably didn't understand how serious X1's question was, or could have simply said that to lay low. We can't know of the latter unless he can explain. He said that Yesterday, so hopefully he can explain soon.

If he doesn't come in soon and coasts, we can simply replace him.

I don't think replacing him is the best choice of action if he does choose to coast. If he does give some reasoning as to why he is unable to be as active as the rest of us, then yeah, replacing is fine. But with the two posts he has made so far (only one when you made your post), it appears more to me that he is coasting scum.

 

[Fynal]

"coasting scum"? seen this a few times, i dont think its on the list of abrievs...

 

[JTB]

Coasting refers to when a player posts just enough to be considered active in the game, but doesn't actually provide much content. It could either be a town player who does have an argument they want to present but doesn't have the confidence to do so, or a scum player who seeks to remain under the radar as much as possible. Given the fact that he hasn't replied to X1's post yet (but has shown that he has seen it), I am currently leaning towards the latter.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Votecount 3:

Swordsdancer [2] - Seikend, Gatlin
TheBlueSpot [1] - Fynal
Fynal [1] - Soupamario
Gatlin [1] - asianaussie
Blacknight99923 (Soren) [1] - JBT
X1-12 [0] -
th3kuzinator [0] -
Ranmaru [0] -
Gova [0] -
JTB [0] -
Seikend [0] -
Soupamario [0] -
asianaussie [0] -

Not Voting: X1-12, th3kuzinator, Swordsdancer, Ranmaru, Gova, The Blue Spot, Blacknight99923 (Soren)


With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

A deadline is set for Thursday April 14th at 0400 hours.



@Ranmaru: Fomatting... note I won't remind people of formatting in lylo.

@Mod I'll be on V/LA from the 8th of April to the 15th of April, visiting family. Is this okay?

Of course it is, why would it be an issue? Declared V/LAs will never be punished and only replaced if absolutely necessary.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hello everyone. I am th3kuzinator, one of your ICs. Pleased me make your acquaintance.

Though you must write my entire name out for votecounts, please refer to me simply as "Kuz" when speaking with me in thread.

X1 has already gone over much of the terminology and basic tactics behind playing mafia. Regardless, if anyone has anything they still do not understand, feel free to ask. I will give you an unbiased answer regardless of what I think your alignment may be.

Scum is another way of saying Mafia member.

Scum is actually the name used to refer to any anti-town faction, whether it be mafia, indy, cult or what have you. Because this is a newbie game, I highly doubt there will be any sort of anti-town faction besides mafia, but there is always a possibility.

For those who do not know:

Mafia is the main anti-town faction in this game and it consists of X amount of players who know eachother's alignment (that being mafia) and may communicate with each other anytime outside of thread. They usually win when their numbers have numerical parity or majority over non-mafia factions.

Indies are players who are neither aligned with town or mafia and usually have the wincon (win condition) of being the last one standing. Because of this, indies are usually tough to win with and are usually given substantial PR (power role) buffs. They may also have a different type of wincon that involves them lynching a specific target or even hammering (casting the final lynch vote) themselves. The latter two are much less common and almost certainly won't be in the setup.

Cults, though generally discouraged from use, are masonesque factions that recruit a player into their ranks each Night. In some variations, when the cult leader dies, so does the entire cult. In others, the leader dying makes it unable for the cult to continue recruiting and the remaining survivor must fight to be the last ones standing.

Here is a mass index for many of the power roles that could be in use throughout your mafia career.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Roles

While this list contains more basic ones that could possibly be used in this setup

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Roles

"coasting scum"? seen this a few times, i dont think its on the list of abrievs...

Scum is described above, while coasting refers to a player who has not specified a period of absence yet sparingly contributes and largely abstains from posting in thread. Basically analogous to large spurts on unexcused inactivity.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@X1, Sword: Analysis of this post.

How is Sword's line of reasoning scummy? Why would you wait for him to get back to you so you can THEN vote?

Vote: TBS

What line of reasoning are you using to vote TBS? You make a large WIFOM post in response to his WIFOM post about one of the ICs being scum. As an SE, you should know not to continue a WIFOM argument. Then you throw in that he has not voted Swords and proceed to vote him. Being afraid to place your vote as a newbie is not a scum tell and neither is self-preservation.

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[X1-12]

some real content would be nice too kuz

 

[X1-12]

Oh ninjad.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@X1, Agreed with your read on Fynal, though I think the simple point of him elaborating on that question in inconsequential. Everything else looks good.

Not sure where you're getting that townSoren read from. Null, two posts with no content is pretty null.

 

[X1-12]

Town Soren read was just part of the trap for Fynal. Soren = null for me

 

[Seikend]

In case you missed it X1.

@X1 Should I re-explain my suspicion of Swords or give my next most scummy player?

 

[X1-12]

you can not bother answering, just do your own thing

 

[th3kuzinator]

@JTB, read on Ranmaru.

@X1, is this reasoning warranted at this point? Anything catch your eye between JTB and Ranmaru? Responding to the link in my 264 would be helpful, and a subsequent read of TBS.

@Gova, JTB or Ranmaru. Who scummier?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Also, stop the presses, but I have a solid town read on Soup this game.

Who woulda thought.

 

[JTB]

Null leaning scum read on Ran right now. He hasn't done any scumhunting and presented WIFOM regarding Soren. Reasoning for leaning scum is his vote on TBS. Given that this is a newbie game, you can expect that the newbies won't play like the normal mafia player, so TBS not voting Swords just yet isn't an issue imo. However, by Ran voting TBS because of that, he is just creating more WIFOM

1) Is Ran assuming that TBS is an average mafia player? (null read)
2) Is Ran taking advantage of a newbie in order to make him appear scummy when it was just a newbie mistake? (scum read)

 

[Seikend]

Alright.

I think any other scumpick at this point would be reaching honestly.

I feel that Aussie's #246, Ran's #247 and Fynal's #258 are rather wordy though. It's not fluffing, but rather it's too much information. There's details that aren't that important to getting across the message. I feel that it's anti-town, but not necessarily scummy. I'd suggest they work on trying to be more concise with their thoughts and streamline. Take that as minor FoS on all three of them if you will.

 

[JTB]

Also, stop the presses, but I have a solid town read on Soup this game.

Who woulda thought.

 

[Gova]

For X1,

Wtf JTB you're taking Gova's our jobs!

Well whatever.

All you newbies need to know are two things:

1. I'm v/la until Monday.
2. There is a near 100% change that at least one of Kuz/X1 is scum, so . . .

vote: Kuz

Both 1 and 2 actually coincide with each other. The way he posted this makes look to me, that if Swords is scum, one of Kuz/X1 are scum and it excludes some of the newbies from being scum with him as well. Probably one's that have never played before. Also, don't like the fact that he's complaining about JTB taking away my suppossed job compared to earlier because he was jokingly calling me scum for explaining things.

@JTB, do you feel you need to explain game mechanics and terms to other newbies even though it isn't your job as an IC/SE? And why do you feel that way?

@X1, do you think scum regardless of how experienced they are, tend to fall into the same pattern when an easy out with regards to fake contributing such as game mechanics or teaching?

I also, agree with your read of Fynal.

@Ran, are you scum?

@Kuz, JTB is scummier to me than Ran.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Aussie's 246 is strange because he dismisses Soren as someone who needs to be looked into yet accuses Gatlin of the exact same things Soren does, if not done by Soren on a higher level.

@JTB, Do you really feel Soren's posts resemble coasting scum?

 

[th3kuzinator]

Gova can be town too, along with Gatlin maybe.

 

[Gova]

Forgot to add, X1 and JTB are most likely not mafia together.

 

[JTB]

@Gova, yes I do. I feel that I am more experienced than the majority of newbie players here, so I see a bit of responsibility to explain simple things, such as abbreviations or terms.

@Kuz, yes, I do. However, I'm not going about to tunnel him solely because he didn't respond to X1's question in a town matter, this is just my initial impression of him.